crunchyblack21

If the game was fun and rewarding people would grind, even if for a few hours a day after work. Look at any ARPG game which is all about grinding like POE/Diablo/Warframe...wildly popular and all about farming and grinding. Your right people don't want to grind forever just for a negligible amount of XP for years and that's it, which is what L2 has become. No cool drops, no rare items from farming, nothing to collect or achieve through farming and grinding. This is why people botted and why botting is a game feature, poor game design. Even an idler game designed from the ground up to not be played has things to achieve and collect along the way however. Incorporating in game botting as a feature wasn't the only way to keep the game alive, it was a way to level the playfield and cut back on people spending money outside of L2 to play L2 because the game design was so poor and unfun people would rather pay 3rd parties for bots to continue....and NCsoft wanted that money instead. Like I cant even believe this game is real with a botting function, 40k drop quests, lv1 to lv95 in 35min, no gear drops or anything interesting while farming. Just bot...then p2w endgame money pit for wallet warriors....hell what does a $500 upgraded weapon matter when the servers are so laggy its unplayable actively? NCsoft needs a change in management and a team of people who are passionate about the game, this is what happens when the dev stops caring about the game and doesn't understand what makes a game fun.

Yeah seeing the whole remaster stuff brought me here, figured if this game is still ticking after all these years, and a modern game engine remaster is coming that this game was cared for well by its owners. After having "played" the last couple weeks, seeing the owners halt character creation and push people away vs welcoming them, seeing what they've done to this poor game over the years, and seeing first hand what this game has become....L2 is not in the hands of caring loving developers with a passion for their product, and a connection with their fanbase. Im worried for remaster. Even looking to what they did with classic, which...why do classic if its not actually classic...wtf? I don't think NCSoft knows or cares to know why people play their game, and im sure remaster will be the same "chase the same 20 whales ignore the rest" game design that has L2 in such a sad state that it is. For all their fault and issues, it really makes me appreciate blizzard and wow, and how that game has evolved over the years (for better or worse) and its launch of classic ( a true classic) and it makes sense that of the games launched in 2004, one has over 100 active servers and another has 2 with the ability to join turned off during a quarantine when the world is at home and playing games. After seeing this games state, I have no issue paying $50 for a new wow xpac and then $15/mo to play....I mean I even got a L2 prestige pack, but the sub here is applicable to only one character? such a ripoff....and that's not even diving into the p2w mechanics, that's a simple sub.... Not sure what NCsofts problem is, but I feel like they've already given up (really across all their games) and that leads me to feel if L2 remastered really is a thing, what on earth is that going to be like? I bet they don't even bother launching it outside korea, at least not until the hype dies completely... Its odd to see a company so overtly greedy but at the same time seem to not care at all about making money.

im working on it right now

Seems like the game is centered and designed around maybe 10-20 uber whales. Im sure if stuff was reasonably priced with reasonable results they would make much more money and have a happier community. Im all for them making this game one giant idler game, just theres no loot so the botting they put into the game is just to watch one bar very slowly rise, which is fine if im getting cool drops along the way. I think they forgot how to make a game that is fun and would just rather chase a handful of whales. Rumors of an L2 remastered brought me here but what im seeing from NCsoft is that they decided to double down on being a webzen tier company vs a gaming company, since I last dealt with them at least its gotten much worse. I forsee the remaster either never really making it to the west due to lack of care, or arriving as an abusive cash shop medium for whale spenders like it currently is. Interest is declining. Why not just hire one of the many illegal server people who seem to have a passion about the game and understand what the western markets want? NCwest lacks passion for their games imo.

IMO queue is the same every time, 150-120 peak weekend under thereafter, many parts of the day no queue but still tons of lag regardless. While the number shown may be an arbitrary counter, disabling new character creation for such a long period of time, during an unique global situation where people have tons of free time suddenly....would have otherwise been a rare chance to capitalize and draw new life into an old game... Its comical to disable new characters and not expand capacity at this time tbh.

New player here: yes I was absolutely amazed how many people "play" and I was literally looking for an idler game to do its thing in the background while I work from home. Granted the active play is dated, the money sink to compete is dumb, and the comic value of a game that had to incorporate botting as game features to counter poor game design wears quickly. I know NCsoft has always had a hatred of its American/western markets, I remember it from when aion was new and they were pissed their beloved game flopped here, and im sure NCsoft has little care for a market where is nearly identical in game competitor has 120+ servers and a sub still...but they need to open another server or expand the current ones capabilities. Ok I get a few weeks of surprise your games full again delay but too long and it becomes obvious you don't care as a company, which I know but many new players might not and missed opportunity (sure its not the first for this game) Also not having to deal with the party system 104+ would be nice, I don't need high value areas to solo farm, but every party ends in some BR favela riot where one bot offends someone and then its everyone dead...maybe some lower value solo areas would reduce stress on the areas that are 100% packed to the brim. If its this mentee system that's causing people to multibox you should probably look to change it, your not making more money having people log on with 2-5 accounts to self farm, which again would make solo areas more valuable to fix the current issues. This isn't my first rodeo with this company and I know all suggestions go to the shredder unless someone can sneak onto the KR forums ect. Feels good to vent though. Even with its hilarious flaws, and clear lack of stewardship, ill probably be botting for a few more weeks until a real mmorpg catches my eye, just my 2 cents.

and you need a new hobby clearly.... we can maybe help you find a place you will be happy? or you just act like a salty little kid always? im new here so I don't know.

id settle for usable gear to occasionally drop for all farming areas....you know...like most other mmorpgs. The crazy farm quests, imo, are a nice addition to the idler tier gameplay and intense farming needs of the game, im cool with that... but this game really lacks a drop system, and itemization. so boring people go after a couple items then just spend $$$ to upgrade them. I actually dislike the fact that I have to wait for a quest to get all the gear I need. Its the least interesting way to get gear. People who play this game like grind and farming, else any other game would be better. Tap into that mindset and make gear a grind like an ARPG does and you will have figured out how to make this game more than a curious side dish to a mobile game, which is what it seems the game has ended up. Maybe remastered will have cool and interesting gear to farm? Oh and interesting loot dropping would also feed NCSoft greed as there still would be enchanting ect….so it really makes no sense not to, feed your greed and the players farming addition...makes no sense not to. I mean wtf else is NCsoft working on? You already got two isometric ARPG games I guess (lol) pull the loot from them and drop here or something...make yourselves useful.

That was his only post so it was probably an advertisement, it sounds like an advertisement, also program running on your PC isn't going to fix the fact there are too many people maxing out their server. expanding capacity of the server, or a new server is the only fix.

So yeah the appeal for me is the idler style gameplay, im stuck working from home and most idler games are predictable and shallow. At least theres some sociability with long standing parties, some pvp to spice things up (me looking over and seeing the party is all dead I guess is pvp?) So yeah flawed game for sure but still fun. Thank you everyone who gave some details into my questions. Just to keep what I feel is a VERY useful discussion going, as its impossible to find this info elsewhere.... I want to get into this "must spend $50-$100 a month" info a bit more. I see things listed as must have like XP scrolls...don't care ill keep the game on over night and im not going to reach max level...right? So cut that off my required monthly spending. Some of the math behind the dollar amounts given seem to be me going from zero to hero in one purchase...again don't need that, I don't need max weapon ect. Just enough to maybe do the autofarming in an area I can get drops if possible is the goal really. Don't quite understand this 30 day jewel pack I need either, by default I don't rent items in game...I just wont do it, if im paying for pixels im keeping them or not spending. Realistically, if im getting this...I need to spend money to upgrade my free gear to a point where I can get in game gear then I need to upgrade that...right? So is it impossible, not hyperbole or make believe because you hate the game ect, is it impossible to get a group of 105 people with default gear and actually go get some good gear? Again I don't mind tossing the devs a few bucks for the game, I have leftover ncoin from some ancient purchase I never used anyway ect. All im trying to do here is cut through the BS behind the pay2win...yeah its pay2win and im sure I could spend $10k a day and still be fighting a gm on an account meant to spur wallet warriors to spend....but I don't care about all that, I just want normal gameplay. So if im looking at maybe upgrading one set or just the basic enchants to a acceptable level...it cant possibly be $50 a month, looking at the cash shop maybe a normal subscription fee amount seems enough to slowly progress me...anyone disagree with that? Really I just need to get a weapon drop in game and spend a bit enchanting that and with that I can get my armor ect by playing right?

considering im an adult and just looking for level headed discussion about the game, maybe this isn't the right thread for you to respond to. Telling people to avoid the game you need to spend money is well...kid talk...I mean I bet you work for free all the time so maybe im in the wrong here. anyway I don't mind spending a few bucks and that seems to be the only thing people read out of a rather large paragraph with other questions...I get it...spend some cash...ok...next question... but thank you everyone else for level headed responses. im just gonna treat the game as a fancy idler for now and see where it goes while I have the work from home time.

not sure how this warped into a free to play only find another game without paying thread. Also this isn't my first pay to win rodeo...im familiar with a lot of people thinking you need to be some millionaire who can afford $15-$20 a month (aka gainfully employed) for a game...and a lot of people who maybe never work and don't have access to money tend to over react to spending money.... Ive seen quite a few games with a big wallet warrior mechanic, though im not looking to be ranked, or number 1 or even number 50 for that matter....just to be able to play with others is fine. I typically find that the cost to entry of just playing is a lot lower than the people who chase others away with p2w stories of unplayable game without 1000/day investments ect. So seriously, from a normal gamer perspective, what are we looking at here to get on a normal footing? I don't mind a small monthly price baked in, but I find it hard to believe I need to spend over $100 a month just to play, there wouldn't be all these people playing if that was the case. Really my only concern is...why doesn't gear ever drop? where do you even gear up...there has GOT to be enough people without high cost RMT gear to get a party and do that content...just looking for level headed discussion about the games reality is all...and again...I am NOT looking to be pvp competitive, or PVE famous.

Thanks for the reply. I can understand the game is sort of in a strange spot, given ive been legally botting for a few days now.... My question for you, is it impossible to obtain gear through playing the game? Everyone tells me I must pay, pay, pay for gear....how do the people im buying the gear from get it? Im not 100% against a few bucks to enchant the gear ect, granted I can only imagine the money pit that will become, so maybe id hold off on that. I don't see any options to really pay to do much to be frank, the cash shop is really lacking on info tbh...which again is odd....I mean I cant even preview cosmetics? WTF is that? I feel like with a couple bits of change this game would be a solid idler game, with active stuff to do when not farming. My only real issue with this game is not a single piece of gear drops, no item drops, farming is xp/gold only it seems, and that is a strange concept for me. Even if drops were rare knowing I could maybe get a solid bow upgrade...or anything would really make this game so much more interesting. I wonder why they don't open up the farming areas...it seems half the server is following the quest chain through the dark elf areas, cumulating in the mosh pit of legal botting that is currently blazing swamps....maybe offer a few more areas? repurpose some of those lower lv areas that you level past in one mob kill to 95-110? Toss in a few rare mobs....toss in some gear and items, just to keep it interesting. Game definitely feels like the developers have lost their way, and don't know what to do with a game that somehow is packed and making them money still..

Not sure why I downloaded and started playing but it happened and now im lv99 in blazing swamps in an afk parting legally botting. Ive sorta been digging this game as an idler and I feel like theres probably a lot of stuff to do when im not auto farming since this games incredibly old. Granted its aged well imo... So anyway ive seen a few threads and bits of info about what L2 is like after I clear out this blazing swamps area....and that its more or less game over for a new player or someone who isn't going to spend $200 a month on the cash shop....I find this hard to believe.... I just wanted to see in 2020 if this holds up, am I going to be unable to solo farm, unable to get groups due to low gear ect moving past 105? Tbh ive never even seen anything other than gold actually drop in this game since I started a few days ago, and ive tried farming a few of the non questline areas just to see what it was like (slow kills lower level mobs nothing of value)...how the hell do I even get gear in this game? OFC its concerning that a new player hasn't even cast a single skill on their own, I get my toolset though its sort of obvious and I set my macro up beyond auto attack. Anyway just looking to see if there really is this wall at 105 that ends the game for most. Also wanted to see if there is anywhere I can auto farm where I might occasionally see a gear drop or something drop....never seen an RPG without gear drops.... Not sure im willing to get into multi boxing and rolling an army of lv 105 characters either.