New Customizable Next Target Macro Functionality

[MiniPink]

WOW first time i see devs working so hard and fast to kill a game...So you want a mmorpg that people play to connect with other people and make friends/enemies, do dungeons and sieges and so many other things be a deadland with afk players macroing..Thanx god new games are coming out and i can finally leave this game

[iTruffa]

Wts macro lessons

[OneDayDelete]

@Conguero @Neutron

SnowMaiden and Kneska were at it again this morning. They didn't get me as I was at the keyboard as you suggest However, I have heard from others that they got them even though they had their macro set as explained in the update (monster only), only using a /targetnext macro. No /target "name" function was used. Can you confirm or deny that the dev team's "fix" actually works? I did testing and it seems to work, but based off of this mornings incident, obviously something isn't right.

If it's not truly fixed, NCSoft bottom line is going to continue to drop further and further into the red ;x

Respectfully,

OneDay!

[OneDayDelete]

@Conguero @Neutron

It is confirmed. A tank can still steal a players target even when they are set to "Monster only" in their game options. I just watched SnowMaiden and Kneska try to gank my weapon for almost an hour. This is their tactic:

1. Pull you away from mobs with Chain Strike. When there are no mobs around your /targetnext will target the next hostile (unless you are set to monster but there is one flaw, which I will explain here in a second).
2. Then Kneska pulls out a pet. SnowMaiden then kills the pet to go red but his PK count does not increase because of silly game mechanics. This needs changed in order to implement a proper fix!
3. Here's the next part that needs fixed. SnowMaiden then uses Superior Aggression skill to steal your target. EVEN IF YOU ARE SET TO "MONSTER ONLY!"
4. While you are attacking SnowMaiden who is red, a Summoner named UmNike is using his summons to kill nearby mobs to gain the little xp needed to go from red to white. If timed just right, this is how toons are going red on SnowMaiden while on macro. They are attacking SnowMaiden while UmNike is working off the karma to make him/her go white again.
5. Rinse and repeat the process 5+ times and then they kill you and there you have it! UNSUSPECTING CHARACTER HAS LOST THEIR GEAR!

The only reason I did not go red on them is because i put /target %self at the end of my macro. This allowed me to re-target something other than SnowMaiden as my macro ran through it's lines. This made it extra difficult for them to be successful. Like I said, they were at it for almost an hour. I finally (accidentally) moved my toon without the macro and they instantly PR'd.

WORD OF ADVICE TO FELLOW PLAYERS:

Don't rely on /target %self to save you from this. I was trying to see how long it would be before they were successful as they were real close a couple of times to making me go red. They were still successful at stealing my target and getting me to hit them, they just couldn't get the timing perfect enough to where I would go red before I targeted myself again.

Long story short, it is still not safe to macro other than while at the keyboard as stated all over the place. I'm just tired of people losing gear to a group of bad apples while NCSoft sits back and does nothing about it. That's why I'm sharing this info with everyone. By sharing this knowledge, at least everyone knows the scheme and can better protect themselves.

 

As for NCSoft, I can only speak for myself and the money I spend on NCoin. I used to spend what I considered to be a decent amount of money to buy items from the L2 Store. What's the point now though? Buy items to only be logged in playing 1-2 hours a day because I don't want to take a chance at losing them out in the field? I'd rather just run through dailies and log out. And if that's all I'm doing every day, what's the point of buying anything from the L2 Store? It would be a waste of money. I haven't spent a dime in the L2 Store in over a month, and have no plans to until something is TRULY done to resolve this flaw. I'm sure many other players feel the same way.

Please spare me with the "we warn everyone not to afk macro" and "macroing is bad for the game" blah blah blah. Again, from a strictly business standpoint, this is BAD FOR BUSINESS! You guys have to be losing money hand over fist with this problem. It won't be long before it's time to close up shop and shut everything down if you don't do something quickly.

I'm just sayin'...

BTW, are wife and kids still doing well? Tell them I said hi.

P.S. If you are looking to hire a project manager for how to resolve and avoid issues like this, I'm your guy!

We're all looking forward to your response and next step of resolution. Ta-ta for now.

[Gela]

Just short information:

1. It's almost impossible to flag you if you set your macros right.

2. If you have aoe skills (if i'm right you are mage) you will flag and then every tank can change your target. Agro can be used on flagged or chaotic chars only.  

[OneDayDelete]

6 hours ago, Gela said:

Just short information:

1. It's almost impossible to flag you if you set your macros right.

2. If you have aoe skills (if i'm right you are mage) you will flag and then every tank can change your target. Agro can be used on flagged or chaotic chars only.  

Keyword that you used is ALMOST.

Friend of mine flagged on an evis with macro set as /targetnext /attack /attack/. Explain that one.

[Yidao]

You will find the explanation coming up as a system message in blue letters each time you log into the game:

 

- AFK hunting is still not supported!

- Note that any item loses from AFK-hunting will not be restored

 

As you can tell from the spelling, this was typed by Neutron himself. This is the official stance on the matter. End of discussion.

 

The game is what it is. If you don't like it, go play WoW.

[OneDayDelete]

2 hours ago, Yidao said:

You will find the explanation coming up as a system message in blue letters each time you log into the game:

 

- AFK hunting is still not supported!

- Note that any item loses from AFK-hunting will not be restored

 

As you can tell from the spelling, this was typed by Neutron himself. This is the official stance on the matter. End of discussion.

 

The game is what it is. If you don't like it, go play WoW.

My stance has nothing to do with AFK-hunting and not liking it. As I've mentioned numerous times. However, since you brought it up, let's go full circle with your point.

Obviously I am doing other things with my time since "I don't like it' as you say. Which in turn means I'm not logged in. How many other players do you think are doing the same thing since "they don't like it?" How long do you think it will be until people stop logging in all together because they've found something else to do with their time and money since they're not using it on L2? Less people logging in means less people to support the game, which means less money for NCSoft to support their servers, dev teams, and staff. When all of that happens, how long until they shut the entire game down because it is no longer profitable?

The bigger picture here is how this is bad for business. You can't get out of your own egotistical head about the underlying factor of afk-macroing. You may think that is also bad for business, however, it brings money into NCSoft, where as players losing gear does the exact opposite. Take a step back for a minute, forget about making your argument about what NCSoft's stance is on AFK macroing and look at the bigger picture of the negative impact this is having on the game.

Neutron himself said they are aware of the many negative impacts this has. I'm not asking them to make a 100% supported AFK Macro system. I'm asking them to fix a flaw in the game mechanics that is driving players away from the game so that the game that we all enjoy playing doesn't die.

If you can't understand that, let me put it in easier terms for you. If something doesn't change, it won't be long before we're all going to have to play WoW.

[Dargor]

On 3/25/2018 at 9:45 PM, OneDayDelete said:

How long do you think it will be until people stop logging in all together because they've found something else to do with their time and money since they're not using it on L2? Less people logging in means less people to support the game, which means less money for NCSoft to support their servers, dev teams, and staff. When all of that happens, how long until they shut the entire game down because it is no longer profitable?

The bigger picture here is how this is bad for business. You can't get out of your own egotistical head about the underlying factor of afk-macroing. You may think that is also bad for business, however, it brings money into NCSoft, where as players losing gear does the exact opposite. Take a step back for a minute, forget about making your argument about what NCSoft's stance is on AFK macroing and look at the bigger picture of the negative impact this is having on the game.

Neutron himself said they are aware of the many negative impacts this has. I'm not asking them to make a 100% supported AFK Macro system. I'm asking them to fix a flaw in the game mechanics that is driving players away from the game so that the game that we all enjoy playing doesn't die.

If you can't understand that, let me put it in easier terms for you. If something doesn't change, it won't be long before we're all going to have to play WoW.

You're not investing time if you're afk macroing. Do you honestly think that some people losing gear because they had a flawed macro is what's really killing this game? The true bigger picture here is that if they make it safe to macro, they are giving you a free bot and if they don't they'll have people spam about how ncwest is bad. Both of these are bad for business. Returning gear lost from afk macroing is out of the question for obvious practical reasons. So with all that being said, the more sensible solution would be to remove looped macros all together, which they won't do because of all the backlash it would create.

[SleepingPower]

2 hours ago, Dargor said:

 Do you honestly think that some people losing gear because they had a flawed macro is what's really killing this game?

People don't loose gear because they have flawed macro or because they play manually and make mistakes but because of presence of people who are in game to take their gear, to harass them, to make them flagged, to force them in unwanted fight, to make them red, to rob them and because game mechanic allow all that.

Asking to fix game mechanic and create rules of players behavior to perma ban who act as above or who take other actions which do not permit other players to enjoy the game seem is still taboo.

[OneDayDelete]

7 hours ago, Dargor said:

You're not investing time if you're afk macroing. Do you honestly think that some people losing gear because they had a flawed macro is what's really killing this game? The true bigger picture here is that if they make it safe to macro, they are giving you a free bot and if they don't they'll have people spam about how ncwest is bad. Both of these are bad for business. Returning gear lost from afk macroing is out of the question for obvious practical reasons. So with all that being said, the more sensible solution would be to remove looped macros all together, which they won't do because of all the backlash it would create.

The most sensible thing to do would be to remove pets from the game. The only reason this situation exists is because there is no Karma for killing a pet and going red. If NCWest would do 1 of 2 things this could all be resolved and everyone could go back to BAU.

1.) Remove pets all together. There is no practical use for them anymore and no one uses them (other than to manipulate game mechanics).

OR

2.)  Make the persons pk count increase that is killing the pet. This will deter the bad behavior. I raised my PVP count by 25 while I sat there and watched that fool try to steal my gear. I sat and watched for 45 minutes so I could fully understand his tactics. I had no intent of letting him get me to go red more than once for him to gank my gear. However, if this change was made, he would be the one losing gear, not other players.

As for removing the macro system, sure they could remove it, by all means, go for it, but why do you think there would be so much backlash? Probably because near 100% of people that use it, are not in front of their computer 100% of the time. Think about it... L2 Revolutions whole game play is based off of an automated system. Sure you can stop the automated play and play manually, but the main marketing of the game when you're logged in is that it's all automated. So why is an automated macro system so bad here in L2 but a priority on L2 Revolution?

[Dargor]

8 hours ago, OneDayDelete said:

The most sensible thing to do would be to remove pets from the game. The only reason this situation exists is because there is no Karma for killing a pet and going red. If NCWest would do 1 of 2 things this could all be resolved and everyone could go back to BAU.

1.) Remove pets all together. There is no practical use for them anymore and no one uses them (other than to manipulate game mechanics).

OR

2.)  Make the persons pk count increase that is killing the pet. This will deter the bad behavior. I raised my PVP count by 25 while I sat there and watched that fool try to steal my gear. I sat and watched for 45 minutes so I could fully understand his tactics. I had no intent of letting him get me to go red more than once for him to gank my gear. However, if this change was made, he would be the one losing gear, not other players.

As for removing the macro system, sure they could remove it, by all means, go for it, but why do you think there would be so much backlash? Probably because near 100% of people that use it, are not in front of their computer 100% of the time. Think about it... L2 Revolutions whole game play is based off of an automated system. Sure you can stop the automated play and play manually, but the main marketing of the game when you're logged in is that it's all automated. So why is an automated macro system so bad here in L2 but a priority on L2 Revolution?

One is a phone game; the other a pc game. There's more than one side to look at things. On the one hand people feel overwhelmed with the insane amount of daily grinding, on the other hand they also take up each and every spot for days with their macros. Anyhow, now you say it's pets. Should they remove those, people will come up with other ways to exploit game mechanics. It'll always be something as it's been proven time and again up to this point. And as I already stated, if they manage to fix all these possible exploits, then they'll make macros absolutely safe and therefore a free botting tool and I for one, don't want this to happen.

13 hours ago, SleepingPower said:

People don't loose gear because they have flawed macro or because they play manually and make mistakes but because of presence of people who are in game to take their gear, to harass them, to make them flagged, to force them in unwanted fight, to make them red, to rob them and because game mechanic allow all that.

Asking to fix game mechanic and create rules of players behavior to perma ban who act as above or who take other actions which do not permit other players to enjoy the game seem is still taboo.

And I don't want to have to pk your afk toons taking up every spot in high level zones. And how about some rules regarding the use of looped macros instead? Oh, and yes, they do lose gear due to flawed macros and carelessness. The more time you leave your toon unattended on a crappy macro, the more time you give people to mess with you.

[SleepingPower]

On ‎28‎. ‎03‎. ‎2018 at 9:56 AM, Dargor said:

And I don't want to have to pk your afk toons taking up every spot in high level zones. And how about some rules regarding the use of looped macros instead? Oh, and yes, they do lose gear due to flawed macros and carelessness. The more time you leave your toon unattended on a crappy macro, the more time you give people to mess with you.

Agree I'm all for removing macros but also i cant think that one player attack every hunter in hunting area just to see if is afk. People quit also because of this.

Also how to be certain that one is afk unless you are NCSOFT  developer. Action should be left for NCSOFT staff and their Gm's, is not on players to take justice in their hands just because they cant find free spot.

If you see an afk hunter you should write to support, they will check if is internet connection, other type of lag, toilet , cigaret or other reasons or is really afk macro but I'm sure GM will not rob gear to player.

[Draecke]

15 minutes ago, SleepingPower said:

Agree I'm all for removing macros but also i cant think that one player attack every hunter in hunting area just to see if is afk. People quit also because of this.

Also how to be certain that one is afk unless you are NCSOFT  developer. Action should be left for NCSOFT staff and their Gm's, is not on players to take justice in their hands just because they cant find free spot.

open world pvp games are obviously not for you - to clarify it's perfectly normal in Lineage to kill someone over an XP area or raids or cause you looked at him the wrong way etc. as that's all part of the game.

here is a better game for you

[SleepingPower]

21 minutes ago, Draecke said:

open world pvp games are obviously not for you - to clarify it's perfectly normal in Lineage to kill someone over an XP area or raids or cause you looked at him the wrong way etc. as that's all part of the game.

here is a better game for you

After chronos, freya and naia merge, next step we both will play something like this where brave players will find a way to molest others until that game shut down too.

[Draecke]

21 hours ago, SleepingPower said:

After chronos, freya and naia merge, next step we both will play something like this where brave players will find a way to molest others until that game shut down too.

[SleepingPower]

28 minutes ago, Draecke said:

I was tempted to mention your lack of arguments in debate about afk macro - pk scam robbery when you suggested hello kittiy.

But now is too much evident that you use personal attacks instead to find an valid argument or solution.

But don't worry if you feel so much in need to date someone you can with one of those scammers named in the thread which contain tested and working solution against pk scammers. 

[Dargor]

23 hours ago, SleepingPower said:

Agree I'm all for removing macros but also i cant think that one player attack every hunter in hunting area just to see if is afk. People quit also because of this.

Also how to be certain that one is afk unless you are NCSOFT  developer. Action should be left for NCSOFT staff and their Gm's, is not on players to take justice in their hands just because they cant find free spot.

If you see an afk hunter you should write to support, they will check if is internet connection, other type of lag, toilet , cigaret or other reasons or is really afk macro but I'm sure GM will not rob gear to player.

No, people don't quit because somebody hit them once to check if they're afk. No, NCWest cannot possibly determine whether some dude is watching his character farm on a macro 100% of the time spent farming. Lastly, it's well within any given player's rights to pk you or try to get you flagged in order to take your spot or just because they can.

And why on earth should I bother support with bogus requests? Afk macroing is allowed and the sole downside is that you can possibly lose gear if you leave your toon unattended long enough (& with a macro crappy enough) for someone to decide whether they really want your items. On a side note, it's people like you who flood support with useless tickets and make things harder for both them and for people with legitimate issues.

On another side note, NCWest has no business checking my internet connection, toilet or cigarettes.

PS: This isn't amazon. You don't just write to support and they answer back in seconds 24/7. It takes from a few hours to a few days to hear back from them. How do you propose they'll determine whether that guy who wasn't responding to some player 2 days ago was in the bathroom or out of town for the weekend?

PPS: Suppose afk macroing was prohibited and the punishment for it was banning the offender (which is not true in the slightest). Not only you'd lose ALL your gear on that toon; you'd lose the entire account.

[Draecke]

1 hour ago, SleepingPower said:

I was tempted to mention your lack of arguments in debate about afk macro - pk scam robbery when you suggested hello kittiy.

But now is too much evident that you use personal attacks instead to find an valid argument or solution.

But don't worry if you feel so much in need to date someone you can with one of those scammers named in the thread which contain tested and working solution against pk scammers. 

dang you totally figured me out..

but no it's just to easy to make fun of people who don't understand that this ain't a game meant ever to be played afk.. the core game mechanics haven't changed since closed beta so reread what I actually wrote..

open pvp world settings means you can die the moment you leave peace zone, can't handle that fact don't play this game.

and to be very clear I despise scammers with a passion but what you refer to as scamming is just dumb idiots that don't understand the above which ain't the same thing at all.

 

[SleepingPower]

1 hour ago, Draecke said:

but no it's just to easy to make fun of people who don't understand that this ain't a game meant ever to be played afk.. the core game mechanics haven't changed since closed beta so reread what I actually wrote..

I play more or les from start too and things changed at least once.

Loosing gear was always painful event and masive looses on player base was enough stressful for NCSOFT to remove gear drop upon death caused by mob for example .

[Yidao]

Let me try to keep it simple. The reason why the Lineage series is more successful than for example WildStar is that the former was not created by video game designers but by a professional story teller. And as a successful author, Sin Il-suk knew the importance of defining limits when creating a world. Only children want to live in a safe environment where Daddy Neutron protects them from the big bad bullies out there and actions have no consequences.

That's what Draecke was trying to say - your attitude is childish.

Now, Nam Taek-rim, our current Global Producer, is, as you can see from the fact that he survived countless purges, a very very intelligent man. He has been with the development team since the early years and knows fully well where he is coming from. Being an intelligent man, Director Nam is very much aware that he is a dwarf standing on the shoulders of a giant. While skills can be adjusted, new items can be introduced and even item drop upon death-by-monster can be abolished, changing the fundamental framework of the game is not open to discussion. Lineage 2 is an open world PvP game. End of story.  If you don't like it, go play WoW.

@ Conguero:
This discussion is moving in circles. The player formerly known as Gabe keeps repeating the same things under various forum names, trying to simulate a popular demand for safe afk macroing. The best solution to end this nonsense might be to lock this thread

[SleepingPower]

5 hours ago, Yidao said:

Let me try to keep it simple. The reason why the Lineage series is more successful than for example WildStar is that the former was not created by video game designers but by a professional story teller. And as a successful author, Sin Il-suk knew the importance of defining limits when creating a world. Only children want to live in a safe environment where Daddy Neutron protects them from the big bad bullies out there and actions have no consequences.

That's what Draecke was trying to say - your attitude is childish.

Now, Nam Taek-rim, our current Global Producer, is, as you can see from the fact that he survived countless purges, a very very intelligent man. He has been with the development team since the early years and knows fully well where he is coming from. Being an intelligent man, Director Nam is very much aware that he is a dwarf standing on the shoulders of a giant. While skills can be adjusted, new items can be introduced and even item drop upon death-by-monster can be abolished, changing the fundamental framework of the game is not open to discussion. Lineage 2 is an open world PvP game. End of story.  If you don't like it, go play WoW.

@ Conguero:
This discussion is moving in circles. The player formerly known as Gabe keeps repeating the same things under various forum names, trying to simulate a popular demand for safe afk macroing. The best solution to end this nonsense might be to lock this thread

Is not a subscription game from past any more where you could get all items in game and loosing gear mean just  time lost and monthly subscription.

Today top gear cost several tens of thousands dollars as you can read in various threads on this forum and it contain a lot items which you cant obtain by playing.

You need to deposit big, use ncoin in shop etc. to obtain items you cant get in game even if "changing fundamental framework of game is not open to discussion".

Safety for entertainment paid in question is said by you childish attitude.

I'm not offended and its your opinion but did you ever tried to play one of real cash economy games?

All are pay to win and some of them are pvp too, you can loose mined resources and looted items but investment or payment for rights to use in game gear is untouchable just like in real life world.

And is reason and excuse for high prices as players know that they cant loose gear.

Players can loose time, mined resources, looted items, resources in crafting fail attempts and various consumables,

But gear they can sell and withdrawal any time if they want..

That's business model companies approach, gathering a lot of players deposits and big part of deposited money will definitely be spent on in game activity.

You can buy decent armor for few dozen usd up to 50k usd up to you and your level, you can buy land area from 20k to 100k usd, you can buy your own moon for 300k usd and even an entire planet for 6 millions usd and for all safety is guaranteed and you can loose them only if you decide to sell them.

Now L2 shop have similar model.

Also they sell various consumables which will be spent in game like scrolls, potions, runes shoots, etc.

And using shop there is method to deposit big and buy gear.

Missing just last step.

To enable players to play and spend paid consumables and guarantee them safety for bigger deposits or donations anyway you want to call it.

Many players deposit several hundreds of dollars each month.

If investment in gear is not safe there is no sense to deposit or how is called ncoin acquisition.

Players can just ask pk scammers  for their bank account and donate them directly.

 

About your insinuation.

I don't know Gabe, I don't use macros and I'm all for removing macro possibility.

 

[Helv]

You're missing the point. Investment in gear is safe as long as you comply with game rules, one of them being: don't leave your character on afk macro farm. Macros were not intended to work as a bot tool. It's so simple, geeeez.

[Quitted]

1 hour ago, SleepingPower said:

Is not a subscription game from past any more where you could get all items in game and loosing gear mean just  time lost and monthly subscription.

 

That's the biggest mistake everyone in here is doing.

You work so you can earn money and if if someone causes you damage, he has to refund you with real money.
If someone takes you off for no reason one day there is no reward that can give you back that day. The real human currency should be the time not the dollar.
L2 store was born to save time not dollars.
Finally on skelth (l2 classic subscription based like in the past) also the characters with 0 pk and lvl 1 if killed can drop items so in L2 classic you do not need to be perma red to drop. You must understand a concept.

Macros were introduced not to farm afk but to use a second or third client in assists to save time while the main client was alive (not afk) farming.
You are simply expoilting a game and if you do so you'll willingly accept its consequences.

The rest is pure non sense.

[marw]

43 minutes ago, Helv said:

Macros were not intended to work as a bot tool. It's so simple

So why NCwest introduced it after they finally won fight vs zR?  

Coincidence? I don't think so.