Boxing, leeching and unpunished bad behavior

[ginjuz]

Shillien Oracle on Giran (GMT+1)

Hi,

as I've been leveling from level 20 in Abandoned Camp, where a mana recharge tree is placed for the event, I've come across some issues that I want to address now:

Too many boxing accounts. Because people practice this method for leveling, there's been an increasing difficulty to find parties even when the zone like this received more traffic. 

A party with a box character in it also results in unfair share of loot where boxing player can receive up to 2/3 of loot.

Additionally, it is difficult to distinguish how many boxes are partially bots and what is the actual active playerbase. How many box accounts later become adena sellers?

On top of that, people with one or more better equipped boxes abuse the system and put you in disadvantageous situation where you cannot hope to fight back and save the hard earned exp percentage. 

Due to how exp share works when someone is outside of party, there have been cases where players purposely attack same mobs to leech exp.

Someone like human wizard capable of AOE damage even used this to leech off a party that gathered a group of mobs.

One more issue is when some players purposely lure a few stronger mobs to people who are low on mana and just dies or disappears for mobs to switch aggro possibly get them killed instead, resulting in bigger loss of exp than his.

From what I personally experienced, I lost at least 12% exp same day due to such behaviour. And I didn't even calculate the exp prevented from receiving, not to mention the overall damages.

I know some of these issues are not even new but I believe they should be addressesd until some improvements are made. In the meatime I will continue to play as it is. Good luck hardcoring to all of you.

[ChimpWithACane]

Welcome to Lineage 2. First, start by creating a character, then choose your race and class. 

[Tool_of_Society]

20 hours ago, ginjuz said:

Shillien Oracle on Giran (GMT+1)

Hi,

as I've been leveling from level 20 in Abandoned Camp, where a mana recharge tree is placed for the event, I've come across some issues that I want to address now:

Too many boxing accounts. Because people practice this method for leveling, there's been an increasing difficulty to find parties even when the zone like this received more traffic. 

A party with a box character in it also results in unfair share of loot where boxing player can receive up to 2/3 of loot.

Boxing has been part of the lineage 2 experience for over 14 years now. Four of my accounts stem from the 2004/2005 era and that means I paid money for the game for each account AND the monthly subscription for years (the other accounts are from 2006 and newer). In the old days you had to box because the mana regen was a fraction of what we have now. I'm pretty sure that in prelude/c1/2 my SPS's (Spellsinger's) pet had no mana regen skill like they have now (nor did human wizard pets). Although the SPS had an active skill that used spirit stones to increase mana regen it was still a small fraction of the regen that we have normally today in the classic server. So I would dump my mana bar in around 10 minutes (or less) then wait 10 minutes for mana (I spent that time practicing my bass). That's what motivated me to create a Shillien Elder and even then I'd still have to wait for mana regen but with the SE I could go at least 20 minutes between breaks. I ended up making an overlord next for dat zerk so I could maximize my damage in PVE. The only reason I still play lineage 2 is because classic hasn't hit the Pay 2 win level of crap that the lives servers have and because the boxing is rather enjoyable. I 12 boxed Eve online for years but it's not as fun.

So having said that I can assure you that I'm not increasing the difficulty of finding parties because I don't generally party with people anymore. The drop rate today is a fraction of what it used to be so I have no interest in sharing what little does drop. Back in the day though I would invite random DPS into my parties because the drops were much higher so I could afford to play with others. I used to run parties every day for many hours in group areas from cruma to TOI and more. My parties were open to non DPS classes too because I controlled the party meaning I didn't have 5 other people demanding I min max the party composition.  An uncountable number of people used my party to get their healer through a quest series etc. I had hoped to return to the older style of play where I brought the tank/healer/buffers and randoms brought whatever as the day went on. Alas Ncsoft has to maximize income from the ncstore so they nerfed everything drop wise.
 

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Additionally, it is difficult to distinguish how many boxes are partially bots and what is the actual active playerbase. How many box accounts later become adena sellers?

If they are boxing then they aren't likely using bots as bots are designed to automate play and don't play well with active players trying to do their thing. The in-game macros are very sufficient to control boxed characters effectively. The boxer might use a multiplexer but that's bannable and like botting only a matter of time before they get caught and end up posting here "OMG I GOT BANNED FOR BEING AFK IN TOWN DID NOTHING WRONG!@!". It's not particularly hard to figure out if a group of characters is being botted or actively played. Just walk up to them while they are moving and say "hello". If they ignore you then you can do the usual bot check stuff. If they are fighting for their life with multiple mobs then give them time to respond because when I'm boxing things can get too hairy to bother with responding as I panic smash four different keyboards. It's always fun when someone runs up as I'm in the middle of rebuffing while fighting 3 or more mobs and then they get upset and start screaming bot because I took 10 seconds to respond. Assuming they even bother checking as the standard response to seeing me is to just start screaming bot and report as many times as possible.

 

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On top of that, people with one or more better equipped boxes abuse the system and put you in disadvantageous situation where you cannot hope to fight back and save the hard earned exp percentage.

Playing the game without software assistance is not abusing the system. Things will always be unfair as people will always have different amounts of commitments in life. So the no-lifers will always pull ahead and have an advantage over the rest of us regardless of boxing.

 

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Due to how exp share works when someone is outside of party, there have been cases where players purposely attack same mobs to leech exp.

Someone like human wizard capable of AOE damage even used this to leech off a party that gathered a group of mobs.

One more issue is when some players purposely lure a few stronger mobs to people who are low on mana and just dies or disappears for mobs to switch aggro possibly get them killed instead, resulting in bigger loss of exp than his.

From what I personally experienced, I lost at least 12% exp same day due to such behaviour. And I didn't even calculate the exp prevented from receiving, not to mention the overall damages.

I know some of these issues are not even new but I believe they should be addressesd until some improvements are made. In the meatime I will continue to play as it is. Good luck hardcoring to all of you.

That is irrelevant when it comes to the subject of boxing.  When possible I will AOE with my group so I have had people try to KS many times. I've figured out some effective tricks for countering that. I've killed or nearly killed many a KSer with the mobs as a result

I also get mob trained occasionally and I've developed counters to deal with that too as should you.

You really shouldn't bother counting up "lost exp" or "exp prevented" as such metrics will inherently cause negative thoughts to appear. Just be happy with what you get and enjoy the gameplay and you'll find yourself to be much happier in general When one of my characters levels up I go "cool" get their skills (if any) and then go back to playing. I focus on what I'm doing and what I want to do and the rest of the server will do whatever it wants too.



 

[Mishi]

On 12/23/2018 at 10:10 AM, ginjuz said:

Shillien Oracle on Giran (GMT+1)

<snip>

Please keep in mind:
Some people box because they....

1. Aren't the correct class people are looking for in parties

2. Play odd times compared to others

3. Want to play solo

From experience in L2: Boxing was typical on live servers. 

From L2 Classic experience: Try playing a class no one wants to deal with prior to being level 35, then see how much you "dislike" boxes when you find it's your only way to level because you get removed from groups for not being a: healer/buffer, Tank, AOE Mage.

On your experience: I am sorry you are having a hard time finding a party. (I can't speak for Giran server.) However Talking Island has an over abundance of Shilen Oracles running around which is why many are no longer able to find a party.

[ginjuz]

Thank you for your responses. It definitely helps me see the bigger picture. I understand the want, need and benefits of playing solo with a box account. I know that in theory I could do it too (unless I can no longer create another account for whatever reason) but I don't think I will anyway, simply because I'm not very fond of controlling two characters either by dividing the screen view or switching between launchers. But I'm okay now if others feel otherwise and do box since I've befriended at least some people who play both desired or undesired classes for parties and the time spent with them makes it worthwhile. I will try to find ways deal with the frustration in the situations I described as they occur again later on but it won't be my focus since I have to make my character progress (really looking forward to finally getting that top No grade weapon for my class)  

Oh, and just as a sidenote, in case you're curious... Yes, as a healer/buffer it is easier to be self sufficient and you can solo if noone parties with you but since upgrading weapon takes a long time and your damage is lower than that of damage dealer's, it becomes expensive due to amount of shots used per kill. Mana drains quickly that way as well and takes time to regenerate even with skills that increase it because there is a larger mana pool in general. That's why it's best to form a party (even if not ideal AOE) and perform your role. Though if others run out of mana and I still have some left over (haven't got recharge skill yet), I use up a portion or whole of it to get extra experience while taking into consideration mana regeneration rates and our positioning so that we don't pointlessly risk losing more exp upon death. Though that does happen with some people anyway because they are too hasty and end up pulling more or stronger mobs when mana is nearly drained out  But that's rare.