Tradeable NCStore and Auto-Macros

[McBacon]

14 hours ago, Buldos said:

So better if they will use l2store for get adena from real players.

That's terrible idea. Just imagine how many people would leave because you just made pay2win game.

[BadCrab]

14 minutes ago, McBacon said:

That's terrible idea. Just imagine how many people would leave because you just made pay2win game.

What are you on about? I see this brought up constantly. Making most or all of the L2Store items tradeable would in no way effect "Pay2Win"-ness.  No one is adding new items, they are suggesting making the ones that already exist available for in-game adena via trading.  In fact this closes the play-gap between players willing to spend Real Life Money and those who aren't - while simultaneously gutting the RMT market by offering an easy legal way to turn USD into Adena.  

Make no mistake - you already can do this in roundabout ways.  Players buying event baits will find themselves quickly turning NCoin into Tuna which go for 400-500a each on TI.

[Qwald]

looped macros will kill the game. everyone will have its own auto-constant-box-party. social part of the game will be ruined with guarantee.

better to turn on the Auction House

[Buldos]

On 02.02.2019 at 1:43 AM, McBacon said:

That's terrible idea. Just imagine how many people would leave because you just made pay2win game.

Take off pink glasses.

Players who ready pay for win doing it now. They are buying adena from illegal sources and supporting adena farmers who flooded spots with bots, supporting all those adversting spammers.

Making l2store stuff tradable might be strong strike by all black market and bot farmes. But more effective would be make NCoin tradable in game, so other players who don't invest $ in game but can make adena via market or effective farming will get access to VIP benefits and all l2store stuff. And all sides except illegals will get theyr profit. NCWest will rise income, RMT players will have posibility buy legal adena, regular players will get VIP and L2Store stuff without $ spending.

Legalising illegal stuff work in real life so why do you think it's will not have effect in game?

[Lawman]

8 hours ago, Buldos said:

Take off pink glasses.

Players who ready pay for win doing it now. They are buying adena from illegal sources and supporting adena farmers who flooded spots with bots, supporting all those adversting spammers.

Making l2store stuff tradable might be strong strike by all black market and bot farmes. But more effective would be make NCoin tradable in game, so other players who don't invest $ in game but can make adena via market or effective farming will get access to VIP benefits and all l2store stuff. And all sides except illegals will get theyr profit. NCWest will rise income, RMT players will have posibility buy legal adena, regular players will get VIP and L2Store stuff without $ spending.

Legalising illegal stuff work in real life so why do you think it's will not have effect in game?

You are probably right, but what you are suggesting is surrender.  I wish NCWest would fight the bots harder, but I don't wish they would surrender.

[Buldos]

On 11.02.2019 at 6:30 PM, Lawman said:

You are probably right, but what you are suggesting is surrender.  I wish NCWest would fight the bots harder, but I don't wish they would surrender.

Well it's don't change situation with players who use bots for lvl/grind on main toons but NC bann them too - I know at least 3 incidents when banned 40-63lvl characters used as mains for using illegal soft.

Adena farmers intresting to sell adena for $ and adding legal way to buy adena will be harmful for theyr income. Yes it's will turn adena price at black market down but who sayd it's will be enough? There must be a complexed solution. RMT via NCoin/L2Store just one step. NCS Team might make control purchases from adena sale services and block all accounts involved in adena transactions chain. Players who buying adena on black market must be banned as well as bots. Players must be afraid of buy adena from any adena service. 

Best way to fight illegal market is to deprive it of customers. But should use not just a knout(bannhammer) but a cookie(alternative legal way) too.

[Lawman]

4 hours ago, Buldos said:

Well it's don't change situation with players who use bots for lvl/grind on main toons but NC bann them too - I know at least 3 incidents when banned 40-63lvl characters used as mains for using illegal soft.

Adena farmers intresting to sell adena for $ and adding legal way to buy adena will be harmful for theyr income. Yes it's will turn adena price at black market down but who sayd it's will be enough? There must be a complexed solution. RMT via NCoin/L2Store just one step. NCS Team might make control purchases from adena sale services and block all accounts involved in adena transactions chain. Players who buying adena on black market must be banned as well as bots. Players must be afraid of buy adena from any adena service. 

Best way to fight illegal market is to deprive it of customers. But should use not just a knout(bannhammer) but a cookie(alternative legal way) too.

I agree with much of what you said.  And I'm realistic enough to know that the game is F2P/P2W anyway.  But RMT is banned because it makes the game totally P2W, where the whales will completely dominate and the rest cannot compete.  Giving players an "alternative legal way" to buy adena with real money yields the same result.  If we are going to do that, there is no point to having a ban in the first place.  

NCWest must decide.  Is allowing people to buy their way to dominance in the game a good thing or a bad thing?  If it's a good thing they should eliminate the ban on RMT, sell adena in the L2Store, and allow the trading of NCoins in game.  If it's a bad thing, they should enforce the rules against RMT (including, very importantly, targeting the cheaters who buy from RMTs and perma-banning them), not sell adena in the L2Store and not allow NCoins to be traded. 

Right now their actions are contradictory.  They ban RMTs and botting, don't sell adena in the L2Store and don't allow NCoin trading, is if it were a bad thing.  But they don't enforce (effectively anyway) the rules against RMT and botting, as if it were a good thing, or at least not bad enough to be worth doing what needs to be done to put a stop to it.  This pleases no one (except the RMTers), fills the hunting grounds with bots, pollutes our chat boxes with ads and makes the game nearly unplayable for those who do not want to cheat.

It is time to decide, NCWest.  Which is it going to be?

[vaistas]

What are you talking about. Leave the macros as they are now. The best idea would be to make PK system normal as everywhere else as it should be. Bots would not farm as easy as they do now

[Buldos]

2 hours ago, Lawman said:

I agree with much of what you said.  And I'm realistic enough to know that the game is F2P/P2W anyway.  But RMT is banned because it makes the game totally P2W, where the whales will completely dominate and the rest cannot compete.  Giving players an "alternative legal way" to buy adena with real money yields the same result.  If we are going to do that, there is no point to having a ban in the first place.  

NCWest must decide.  Is allowing people to buy their way to dominance in the game a good thing or a bad thing?  If it's a good thing they should eliminate the ban on RMT, sell adena in the L2Store, and allow the trading of NCoins in game.  If it's a bad thing, they should enforce the rules against RMT (including, very importantly, targeting the cheaters who buy from RMTs and perma-banning them), not sell adena in the L2Store and not allow NCoins to be traded. 

Right now their actions are contradictory.  They ban RMTs and botting, don't sell adena in the L2Store and don't allow NCoin trading, is if it were a bad thing.  But they don't enforce (effectively anyway) the rules against RMT and botting, as if it were a good thing, or at least not bad enough to be worth doing what needs to be done to put a stop to it.  This pleases no one (except the RMTers), fills the hunting grounds with bots, pollutes our chat boxes with ads and makes the game nearly unplayable for those who do not want to cheat.

It is time to decide, NCWest.  Which is it going to be?

Selling adena in L2Store is very bad idea cuz it's equal to dupe and kill economy with wild inflation very fast. From this point even bots not so harmful for ingame economy cuz with adena they farm materials/items. Total legalisation of RMT is very bad idea cuz will benefit black market and stimulate farmers.

RMT via L2Store or tradable NCoin will benefit NCSost with NCoin sales and let normal players get what they want adena/VIP/L2Store items. Players who buying adena will do it anyway, but now when they do it they benefit illegal users.

[Lawman]

2 hours ago, Buldos said:

Selling adena in L2Store is very bad idea cuz it's equal to dupe and kill economy with wild inflation very fast. From this point even bots not so harmful for ingame economy cuz with adena they farm materials/items. Total legalisation of RMT is very bad idea cuz will benefit black market and stimulate farmers.

RMT via L2Store or tradable NCoin will benefit NCSost with NCoin sales and let normal players get what they want adena/VIP/L2Store items. Players who buying adena will do it anyway, but now when they do it they benefit illegal users.

Sorry, I'm lost.  "Selling adena in L2Store" is very bad, but "RMT via L2Store" is good.  I've never cheated, but according to the ads RMT is the selling of adena.  So what is the distinction you are making?  What am I missing?

[Buldos]

15 hours ago, Lawman said:

Sorry, I'm lost.  "Selling adena in L2Store" is very bad, but "RMT via L2Store" is good.  I've never cheated, but according to the ads RMT is the selling of adena.  So what is the distinction you are making?  What am I missing?

Selling Adena = drawing Adena wich not supported with items and resulting in crazy inflation cuz increased total amount of Adena on server. What happened with real economy when statement start printing more money wich not supported with gold reserve/goods/etc? Economy start sufering from inflation and citizens of this country start get salary counted in millions and became "millionaries" or even "billionaries" but in fact those 2-3kk salary might be equal 100$. So yes "Selling Adena in L2Store" is very bad idea.

When trading Adena for L2Store items or NCoins you get Adena wich already exist on server and farmed by other players who farm it from mobs with materials/items and this way didn't harm ingame economy. 

Now players might shout about trade adena in worl chat for NCoin cards and no one bann them. In fact it's not RMT cuz Adena traded for NCoin code and not for Real Money but this way is hight risky to get scammed. So why not make it safe?

[Lawman]

2 hours ago, Buldos said:

Selling Adena = drawing Adena wich not supported with items and resulting in crazy inflation cuz increased total amount of Adena on server. What happened with real economy when statement start printing more money wich not supported with gold reserve/goods/etc? Economy start sufering from inflation and citizens of this country start get salary counted in millions and became "millionaries" or even "billionaries" but in fact those 2-3kk salary might be equal 100$. So yes "Selling Adena in L2Store" is very bad idea.

When trading Adena for L2Store items or NCoins you get Adena wich already exist on server and farmed by other players who farm it from mobs with materials/items and this way didn't harm ingame economy. 

Now players might shout about trade adena in worl chat for NCoin cards and no one bann them. In fact it's not RMT cuz Adena traded for NCoin code and not for Real Money but this way is hight risky to get scammed. So why not make it safe?

Thank you for taking the time to explain the difference you intended.  You are right that selling adena in the L2Store pumps adena into the game that was not there before.  That does cause inflation, in game and in the real world.  However, the same amount of adena produced in-game by cheaters botting has the same effect.  Your distinction would be meaningful if the adena produced in-game was produced by honest people playing the game at the keyboard as it was meant to be played.  But it isn't.  And, sometimes, even the people at the keyboard are just grinding to obtain the adena to sell as a business, 24 hours a day in shifts.  This does just as much harm to the in-game economy.  You end up with the same amount of adena pumped into the game, the same inflation and, to add insult to injury, no place for the honest people to hunt.  

Please understand I don't support selling adena through the L2Store.  Personally, as I have stated many times in these forums, I would prefer that NCWest put the resources needed into stopping botting, buying adena with real money, scripting, and all forms of cheating.  But they aren't doing that.  I still believe they should be consistent.  Either say buying adena with real money is okay, and sell it in the L2Store to put the botters out of business.  Or say it's not okay and put the needed resources into stopping it.  

Your analysis suggests an alternative I hadn't considered -- that they make buying adena from RMTs with real money legal, while not selling it themselves.  I think that just gives us the worst of both worlds.  The economy is still out of whack because of the bot-farmed adena and items.  And players who don't have tens of thousands of dollars to spend still can't compete, in some cases can't even find places to play the game because the bots control all the decent hunting spots.  Not a good idea, imho.  Thanks for responding.