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Itchy

SHAME ON YOU!

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Itchy    42
16 hours ago, Lawman said:

Hi Itchy.  30 years ago, when I was trying to get people in a political debate on a message board to be civil to each other, I used the moniker "Don Quixote."  I cede that title to you.  Keep tilting at those windmills! Hope it does some good.  (Do try to keep it civil, though, the message I was preaching all those years ago :)).  

And i thank you for the reminder.  It has all now reached more of a personal proportion with the 7-day ban of my clan member for no "real" reason, i.e., he has not actually broken a rule of game play.  so yes, i'm even more angry and on a different level than before.

i am still angry with no response, civil or otherwise, from NCSoft.  i am still angry that my in-game time is wasted competing with bots.  i am still angry that my money spent for VIP status is being wasted when i cannot hunt efficiently and effectively because of bots.

and in my simmering anger over these issues, i have worked hard to keep my messages civil.  don'tcha just hate when something gets so close to home that the simmering boils over for a moment? 

~yeah, still angry

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Itchy    42
15 hours ago, SismoS said:

The problem with this game is that NCSOFT has GMs that don't play the game and, thus, are not interested in investigating the problem manually (just go to Hardins Academy, Execution Grounds, Outside Oren, Enchanted Valley etc etc etc and they would ban tonz of accounts). They expect that their system will catch the cheater, but it is easily bypassed. This situation leave us with 3 scenarios:  just let it go and keep playing, quit game or just set up a bot train yourself since it is clear that cheaters don't get banned anyways.

I believe some of them do play the game (maybe all of them for all we really know.)  but i would imagine when they are in game as players they don't want to be bothered with GM issues.  after all, isn't that what it's all about, to have fun?  however, by not paying attention, or caring about the bots in the game they are not, in my opinion, fulfilling their responsibilities as staff of NCSoft.  just my opinion.

as far as choices, ignore it or quit. i don't think joining the ranks of bots is an option.  i'm not willing to ignore it because it is such a blatant problem. and i'm not yet ready to quit. i do have my reasons.  but i'm getting closer to the "quit" option with every day that passes with no response from or action taken by NCSoft about the bots.  i do know many others have quit and i'm sorry to see them all go.  the community is slightly less interesting without them.

it's a shame that NCSoft doesn't view the loss of live paying members of the community as catastrophic.

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GrannyChill    9
On ‎1‎/‎25‎/‎2019 at 3:25 PM, Itchy said:

it's on this forum now.  nicely done.

NCSoft needs to see the truth of what their business model is doing to the game.

not everyone buys adena. not everyone buys OP items from L2Store.  sadly though i agree with you that without a customer base the businesses would fail. if people stopped spending real money to support the bots they wouldn't be there. 

On the flip side, if NCSoft would simply enforce their own rules the bots wouldn't be there.  if NCSoft enforced their own rules and banned all the bots there would be no business therefore no customers and people would be playing more fairly in a more balanced environment.  so, business models or not, it still all goes back to NCSoft, the developer and host of this game with rules they are not enforcing.  They need to step it up.

I'm not arguing with you on that, they do need to step up their game.  I can't see why they can't have each customer service employee take an hour or so every couple days to actually log in and remove bots and adena sellers.  It wouldn't clean them out completely, but it would certainly help!

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Itchy    42
1 hour ago, InTheGame said:

I already leave this comedy , but longing just to vote this post!

just like all the others who have left the game because of playing conditions, i'm sorry to see you go.  the community is less interesting because you aren't there. but i understand why you and all the others are fed up with the circus L2 has become.

Day 6 since my first post, and still no response from NCSoft to communicate what they are doing about this issue.

I have 2 more mails today with adena ads. i'm feeling spammed, scammed and violated by these bots.

the fields are still full of bots mangling all the mobs before any real players have a chance to get any xp.

time continues to be wasted, money on VIP continues to be wasted.

people continue to leave because of it all.

live players are now a minority in the game.

~still angry.

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McBacon    7

If NCSoft can't handle bot crisis in Classic servers they should make it legal. Equal rights to everybody or no rights at all. Because I am tired reporting these bots and after a week see them online again.

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Itchy    42
11 minutes ago, McBacon said:

If NCSoft can't handle bot crisis in Classic servers they should make it legal. Equal rights to everybody or no rights at all. Because I am tired reporting these bots and after a week see them online again.

it's pretty obvious they don't want to handle the bot crisis in classic server else they would have done something proactive before now.  not only do the bots return they bring their friends. bot population continues to increase, real player population declines.  it's just a matter of time...

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Hrothgar    2

Itchy , Its a money scam. You only see @Juji and @Hime respond to legit server questions now within reasonable time but when comes to server distribution from bots and all they won't comment at all. Their higher supervisors know will lose money. All about the money as you can see. They bring back a classic game as well when their are no classic players. Makes for great experience all around. These are just me thoughts.

Edited by Hrothgar
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Itchy    42
2 minutes ago, Hrothgar said:

Itchy , Its a money scam. You only see @Juji and @Hime respond to legit server questions now within reasonable time but when comes to server distribution from bots and all they won't comment at all. Their higher supervisors know will lose money. All about the money as you can see. They bring back a classic game as well when their are no classic players. Makes for great experience all around. These are just me thoughts.

i agree that it is a money scam. and they won't get any more of my money.  not. a. dime.  not when real money is being wasted in-game having to deal with bots everywhere.

as far as seeing responses from any @NcsoftFTW staff, one would think that the bots, being specifically listed in terms and conditions of playing the game as against the rules would be a topic worth responding to.  it is a problem. it is an issue. and NCSoft continues to allow its own rules to be broken.  they ban people for swearing at them in private tickets but do nothing about these blatant rule breakers.  and yes, we all know it's all about the money. why else would NCSoft turn a blind eye?  It's pretty obvious the adena sales are benefiting NCSoft too.  the bots they *are* banning are people who use third-party programs privately, the ones who don't benefit NCSoft.  that doesn't make botting any less egregious, it just shows NCSoft's hypocritical policies.  "gib us de moneez we letz you botz!"

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Itchy    42

one thing i find most interesting is that, not only is @NcsoftFTWstaff not responding to this thread, they also are not denying any of the allegations being made here.  that speaks volumes, in my opinion.

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Lawman    147
7 hours ago, Itchy said:

one thing i find most interesting is that, not only is @NcsoftFTWstaff not responding to this thread, they also are not denying any of the allegations being made here.  that speaks volumes, in my opinion.

Sorry, Itchy, I can't let this one go.  They have addressed this topic recently in the producer's letter:

"One of the most pressing concerns from the community is the topic of botting after the launch of Lineage II Classic last year. Since that launch, our security team so far has banned thousands of accounts. We are working with Wellbia to further improve our detection methods with XIGNCOD3 and are taking additional steps to prevent illegal third-party usage in Lineage II next month. I would ask that players continue to be rigorous when submitting bot report tickets to our support team, so we can remove cheaters that have made attempts to bypass our detection methods."

If they went beyond this to answer every one of the dozens of conspiracy theorists' charges on this forum, it would get pretty monotonous.  

The only thing I'd like to see them answer directly is why they don't put GMs in the game itself to identify and ban botters.  The answer likely is that they don't have the manpower, but they may not be allowed to say so.  @Himehas dropped some substantial hints that their bosses limit them in what they can say.  Remember when, in dealing with the recent connectivity problems, she used some obtuse term instead of DDOS, I pressed her on it, and she said she couldn't really say any more than the obtuse term?

Anyway, there would be no point in them simply "denying any of the allegations being made here" every one of the myriad times those allegations are made.  The conspiracy theorists wouldn't believe them anyway.  To the rest of us (well, to me, anyway; I can't actually speak for others), the above quoted language is sufficient denial. 

Edited by Lawman

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Itchy    42
4 hours ago, Lawman said:

Anyway, there would be no point in them simply "denying any of the allegations being made here" every one of the myriad times those allegations are made.  The conspiracy theorists wouldn't believe them anyway.  To the rest of us (well, to me, anyway; I can't actually speak for others), the above quoted language is sufficient denial. 

when i made that comment, it was "tongue in cheek."  of course i don't expect them to deny any such allegations.  but it does make one wonder if perhaps such allegations could have some foundation.

Live GM's are the ONLY best way to monitor and ban bots.  despite Juji's "letter from the producer," the bot population is increasing daily!  ban one, ten more show up.  some fields literally have no mobs because the bots kill them as fast as they can spawn.  certain level ranges in high 20s to mid-to-high 30s are almost impossible to get through because of bots.  my clan members ask me where can they hunt? we are all running around different fields literally looking for spaces with mobs to help us advance our characters.  it is a poor use of our time when some of us have little time during the day to actually play.  it is a waste of the VIP status that we paid real money for to not be able to take advantage of the xp and drops increase because there is nothing to kill.

so the fact that they have banned thousands, in my opinion, is moot. those thousands have been replaced and then some.  trying to regulate some bot detection program is not going to fix it. there will always be someone who can write a new third-party script to get around whatever security the company can put in place.  ONLY live GM's can fix it.  if they put boots on the ground in-game it would honestly take very little time to find and ban the bots and then it could be maintained on a daily basis with very little time investment. they have tools to expedite their investigation and banning process but it doesn't seem they are using them.  this isn't rocket science.  one person could effectively dedicate a couple days to the initial investigation and ban process and then maintain it with an hour or less per day in the days following.  they just need to be consistent. 

when NCSoft decides to care about what is important we'll likely see some improvement.

~crossing fingers ~ still angry...

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Degus    77

Wow, another 1 of my posts was deleted, I'm starting to feel special.  At my job, when I try to help or give good advice people thank me.

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Itchy    42
4 hours ago, Degus said:

Wow, another 1 of my posts was deleted, I'm starting to feel special.  At my job, when I try to help or give good advice people thank me.

thank you, Degus :D

what post was deleted?  i'm curious now!

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Itchy    42

Day seven since opening this thread.

Conditions have not changed that i can see.

Bots continue to stream through dion to run out and delevel

Fields are still full of bots, same fields, same bots.

Adena sellers continue to spam chat and PM in towns.

Conditions remain the same.

@NcsoftFTW is any progress being made in your investigations?  Are you, in fact, addressing these problems in-game?

~still angry

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qtpi    20
39 minutes ago, PhoenixMitra said:

Greetings @Degus

You may have lost track of your posts, but they are all there.

Only actual Code of Conduct violations may result in the removal of posts. 

Evidently it's against the Code of Conduct to be call out NCSoft employees for moderating the forums better than moderating in-game.

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Itchy    42

thank you for joining this thread, @PhoenixMitra. is there any comment you can make on @NcsoftFTW's progress in addressing the botting issues in-game?  as of today i see no change.  some word of progress would be greatly appreciated.

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McBacon    7
2 minutes ago, Itchy said:

thank you for joining this thread, @PhoenixMitra. is there any comment you can make on @NcsoftFTW's progress in addressing the botting issues in-game?  as of today i see no change.  some word of progress would be greatly appreciated.

They don't know dude, they are probably volunteer forum moderators and nothing more related to other operations of NA NCSoft.

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Itchy    42
9 minutes ago, McBacon said:

They don't know dude, they are probably volunteer forum moderators and nothing more related to other operations of NA NCSoft.

it doesn't cost anything to ask. (and i'm not a dude...)

 

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arbymartel    2

Damn, stopped playing more than a month ago and it seems nothing has changed. Three days of discussion and not a single word from the company or representants. No wonder NCsoft has a terrible reputation when it comes to company-customer communication.

I try my best not to believe in most tinfoil hat conspiracy theories, but there's no way that there's nothing shady happening between NCsoft and the whole chinese/russian botting/adena selling market. With all this impunity, it's like NCsoft is begging us to believe in these kinds of things. But most probably, they just realize that Lineage 2 is obsolete and dead, so there's really no need to spend money to keep the servers healthy. This is NCsoft's last attempt to milk a dead game for extra money (could've lasted a lot longer if it weren't for the company's incompetence; check out Tibia, archaic game for today's standards with a thriving community after all these years).

Well, let's just hope that the next Lineage game doesn't turn out to be some mobile-exclusive microtransactions garbage.

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ThermalTank    1

The guys running NCwest are never going to address the botting issue in Lineage 2. It is a very simple answer. Large player base and Large cue lines are things that look good for them. They report back to NCSoft, "yes the game is still popular"  That way, most of them get to keep their jobs. " We run automated systems " translation, there is probably one guy doing all the work. If the game looks popular and still brings in money, he/she gets to keep his job. Why would that person ever lower the player base by that many players, repeatedly, and draw his overseers attention from over seas.

Edited by ThermalTank
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Lawman    147
1 hour ago, ThermalTank said:

The guys running NCwest are never going to address the botting issue in Lineage 2. It is a very simple answer. Large player base and Large cue lines are things that look good for them. They report back to NCSoft, "yes the game is still popular"  That way, most of them get to keep their jobs. " We run automated systems " translation, there is probably one guy doing all the work. If the game looks popular and still brings in money, he/she gets to keep his job. Why would that person ever lower the player base by that many players, repeatedly, and draw his overseers attention from over seas.

I doubt this is true.  NCSoft in Korea doesn't give a darn how many players are on.  All they care about is the money coming in, and inflating the on-line numbers has no effect on that. 

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Yvel    6

who spends money on L2?  real people, right?  server population right now is way outta wack, 10:1 bots to live players. bots spend money on L2?  NCSfot wants money? why do they allow bots?  makes no sense.  they want money they should keep their live players happy.  they aren't doing that.  regularly doing the dark judge quest to get rid of PK points.. so many bots, so little time. so much wasted time. too many bots everywhere and no monsters to kill.

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