PK system changes on EU/RU - no more gear drop/destroyed

[BmD]

2 hours ago, Yidao said:

On March 13 a Combat Mode toggle was introduced in Korea, which, when ON, relieves you of the necessity to press the Control key when you want to attack somebody, like in the Olympiad:
https://forums.lineage2.com/topic/9857-prelude-to-war/?page=2&tab=comments#comment-87750

So what you guys have in mind certainly won't happen. The develepers want players to kill each other, no matter whether intentionally or unintentionally.

I agree with you Yidao. The devs want the players to kill each other.

But the fact that someone wants something does not mean that this something is the right thing to do.

Look I am Italian and in 2012, guess what when neutron toook command, an Italian male had the brilliant idea that he could go coastal

with the biggest cruise ship on earth and be with his lover at the same time.

That idea was so brilliant that the entire ship sank and even David Lettermann also spoke of it on prime time prolly because that ship sank just in front

of one of the most beautiful italian coast and nobody could go there for four years.

It was like sinking a ship in front of the statue of liberty, on purpose.

This idea of turning lineage 2 into a fps it's simply stupid.

In a few seconds ncwest will lose two-thirds of the players' base who want to play a mmo that has rpg, drama etc. components.

And btw which fps does require to grind for 5 to 15 years to be one shotted in less than a second?

 

[Argus]

To Be Honest, just add this to our servers as soon as possible, I am hunting force PK scammers on NAIA every day. Things are going out of control now, since some of them know how to force others PK really fast. They have some pretty efficient way of doing it. 

I am getting pm's all the time to go and kill such people.

ADD THIS FEATURE SO THE SCAMMING WILL STOP AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. Scammers are selling top tier items everyday!!!! 

just add this

These stupid scammers are making many ppl quit and create huge problems, you should act fast, this is really serious!!!

 

 

[Yidao]

While I agree that Real Money Traders must be punished, I personally think that abolishing the item drop penalty is just a cop-out to avoid dealing with cases on an individual basis and then actually banning people who abuse a glitch (like introducing upload filters for Youtube etc. instead of amputating copyright infringers' hands). And if those "PK scammers" are not abusing a glitch but simply using a game mechanic, then losing expensive items must be considered a just punishment for going afk.

@ BmD:
I am fully aware that turning a Role-Playing Game into a First-Person Shooter will make many players quit, especially with the huge gap between the haves and the have nots at NCWest. But closing the gap would require a re-design of the game and, more importantly, the business model, an effort and investment that NCsoft is obviously not willing to make. Possibly they are even right. As far as I can see it, Dawe and myself are the only ones still interested in lore, while 1000 hopefuls are trying to macro-bot it up and a few dozen PvPers hunt each other all over the map. I am afraid that those few dozen PvPers are the only ones who spend any money on the game (I know that I don't  ), so they are NCsoft's primary prey.

[BmD]

To Argus. Why can't we be honest for just one time. The ones who whispered to you just returned in front of the monitor after beeing afk and found their toon deep

red spoiled of gear. Hell when the connection was more stable and the ss issue wasn't this big there were folks that tripped for 4 days and they

went back finding their toons still afk exping. 4 days without ever beeing in front of a monitor.

If you can't afford to act like a 14yo nerd kid who never sleeps and doesn't have a real life you have only 2 options. Pick another video game or

stop acting like a dumb. You are afk exping at your own risk. This is supposed to be a game where you have to be in front of a monitor for a

loooooooong time. I bet innova will regret their choice very soon.

This way an entire party of 108 full stacked toons can pk non stop an entire server, over and over and over.

Hell yeah there will be a lot of fun for those 7 ppl but the others will quit sooner or later, if not in a matter of days.

 

To Yidao. If someone managed to force Dudot, who was not only a gamer who was constantly looking for the lore but for the game mechanics,

to run away on classic, well or Jujii will be able to do a 180 degrees turn or he will be force to close the servers in a matter of months.

[BmD]

Another point. When I say begin to sell cosmetics this doesn't mean selling bamboo hats that even my 4yo old nephew can design better.

Every gamer on earth wants that his avatar to have an unique appearance. Hell when neutron introduced the circlets Draecke came in here

complaining that his toon looked like a donkey.

And to gain those unique appearances every gamer on earth is willing to spend a ton of real money.

Listen. Apex Legends is a ftp game. Dowload and you play but because every gamer wants an unique appearance they are cashing in

millions of usd x day.

Even that crap anthem is based on the same business models.

The korean should just hire 3 homeless dudes and give them pencils to draw unique appearances on paper and then traslate that

in the game.

Is it that difficult to understand that your business model is dead since 2 years?

[Patriska]

Just keep PK system as it is now, is not so bad.

If ppl will not afraid that they will lose items from PK or they need PK rly many ppl as 10 or more than normal random ppl with not TOP gear will have 0 chance for take any good exp spot or kill anything out of instance.

Only need fix this drops items with PK during macro , thats all.

Btw this macro system is bad at all, ppl can make "legit bot" 24/7 without even check PC or click anything and this is also rly bad.

They should make that you need use atleast some button like every 10-30 minute or their macro stop so ppl check their PC atleast little and this can also fix problem with PK macro.

 

[golemka]

Keep the current system, PK was always like this.

Carebear update for the 24/7 macro players. Disable the macro loop or give some kind of time limit for it. 

[KingNothing]

These ppl crying about afk macro = bot.

Dude, afk macro isn't the problem, any1 can go at spot with a tank and pull iss/dd. bam macro = off.

The real problem are those full partys at refinary where u can pull/stun/kill but somehow they keep coming back.

If u want take down loop macro, ok it's fine, but first remove the bots. But until there, leave it alone.

And for those who are afraid to drop gear while afk macro, just dont go afk. If u want high reward u have to take the risk.

Don't get me wrong, the pk glitch must be dealt with, but not like this. Don't fix a problem by creating a bigger one.

[BmD]

First of all macro loop = botting

no more no less

logitech or razor macro loop = https://eu.4gameforum.com/threads/660741/

= botting

You have to say the things for what they are. A single dude with two ladtops can keep a spot for days and if the connection it's stable

to one manteinance to the next. If you have 6+pc you can keep harnak and the other party spots filled  for years.

Korean bot servers = https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ek0XQedeqPA

I don't understand why are you saying 1+?=2 but you don't want to say that the ? it's an 1.

Afk = botting

How to get rid of afk parties? Gole is right, as usual. Put a timer 30-to 45 seconds to the macro loop then it goes off.

If you want to bot go to bot on hello kitty.

[JanisPaegle]

So what will stop top nolifer clans to just pk everyone all the time?

[Theram]

to remove the pk penality is most stupid idea possible, anyone who have tried i illegal server with rates x30 for example will know it.

[KingNothing]

9 hours ago, BmD said:

First of all macro loop = botting

Sorry, but i disagree.

There are many interactions that afk macro can't do that bots can. Also if they were ppl would't be here crying about removing pk from afk macro.

Also if u want the game to die faster, just remove it. You will see most of mid-tier players quit because they just can't compete with whales. 

Removing a feature that helps 99% of the server to farm, do daily quests, do some exp and etc... just to please a couple people who can stay all day in front of the pc while the rest of us have jobs and family to take care, that's nonsense.

The only thing afk macro is damaging are the adena sellers, because now normal ppl can farm and adena price is dropping. 

I just realized, why are u so focused on removing macro loop even before extermination of real bots? 1st take care of bots then discuss about loop macro.

[Argus]

I take my words back … On Naia server there are so many ignorant and arrogant players, who will be out of control, if there is no item drop/brake penalty for PK.

Yesterday there was an example of that. A player pking a clan mate and telling to other party members to kick him, they did not kick him, so he started PKing them too.. luckily a strong yul was passing by and killed him. The arrogant guy lost items. 

Such players will just run around and pk all server for no reason, just because they have tons of adena and close to infinite amount of the stupid PK/Karma scrolls! 

@Juji, PLEASE take care of the macro loopers, get us Fafurion update with the new macro system so they don't cry/quit when drop items, BUT KEEP THE penalty for the arrogant selfish ones. If they are not afraid of losing gear, it will be total chaos, impact on server will be huge.

 

[Yidao]

10 hours ago, KingNothing said:

Also if u want the game to die faster, just remove it. You will see most of mid-tier players quit because they just can't compete with whales. 

Removing a feature that helps 99% of the server to farm, do daily quests, do some exp and etc... just to please a couple people who can stay all day in front of the pc while the rest of us have jobs and family to take care, that's nonsense.

All macro haters I know have an active love life and rather well-paid jobs.

And that's what's at the root of the problem - a clash of cultures. Said macro haters got their well-paid jobs because they are well educated and civilized, so they would never admit it, but what is getting on everybody's nerves is that 3rd world illegal server entitlement attitude: "Because I am poor I should get special treatment. I must avoid paying taxes so that I can feed my family. I must macro-bot so that I can compete with the big wallets." If you can't feed a family, don't have a family, and if you feel the need to win in a video game, as opposed to playing it for enjoyment and relaxation, that clearly marks you as a loser in real life.

That being said, this is a platonic discussion. Please refer to this post:
https://forums.lineage2.com/topic/12000-pk-system-changes-on-euru-no-more-gear-dropdestroyed/?page=3&tab=comments#comment-88489

As of the next update, macro-botters will be farmed for the Cursed Sword drop. That is just so. What Argus describes above is nothing compared to what you will see in a month or two, even without abolishing the PK penalty.  If it makes you unhappy to get killed again and again by high-level characters, better get out now. There are countless hobbies out there which will give you more enjoyment

[Argus]

@Yidao, don't get me wrong, I have no problem with with PVP/PK, players killing each other, having drama on server, bullying, harassment .. the problem is when the arrogant guy is doing that for free, no drop for such guy = free ticket.. he does not care anymore if someone can kill and take/brake his items! 

New Cursed Sword system is another topic, which has nothing to do with the free ticket for many players, who should face the consequences for their actions.

That is why I urge Juji to do the right thing! 

 

[Yidao]

The new Cursed Sword System and the European PK System are indeed two different things, but they are also related. While people understand what will happen if the punishment-free PK System is introduced on our servers, many still don't seem to grasp the implications of the Cursed Swords. In "Prelude to War" the player you described above would leave the clan resp. party and kill everybody not because he is a little backside opening, but because as of the next update you get rewarded for PKing people, with up to 5 billion adena.

To say it again:
At Innova PKing people just has no consequences. Over here, PKing people will give a reward.

That's why I urgently recommend players who feel uncomfortable with the thought of getting killed any time anywhere again and again to leave now. It will only get worse.

[Dawe]

Dammit, i forget on the new Cursed Sword System...

There will be huge Sh*tstorm when the update hits us

[GreenCrusher]

48 minutes ago, Dawe said:

Dammit, i forget on the new Cursed Sword System...

There is an easy fix for this new system, but the dev team probably wont do it.

Make it so there is only a chance for the cursed swords to drop if you kill members of a clan that you have a war with. Not the whole bloody server.

[Dawe]

But how then the other players start PVPing each other so they can sell them new PVP L2 Store Items? (And why they dont PVP in the first place? Because the other side is stacked with these)

The ones that have war are only those already stacked people,... they wouldn't buy these.

[KingNothing]

11 hours ago, Yidao said:

And that's what's at the root of the problem - a clash of cultures. Said macro haters got their well-paid jobs because they are well educated and civilized, so they would never admit it, but what is getting on everybody's nerves is that 3rd world illegal server entitlement attitude: "Because I am poor I should get special treatment. I must avoid paying taxes so that I can feed my family. I must macro-bot so that I can compete with the big wallets." If you can't feed a family, don't have a family, and if you feel the need to win in a video game, as opposed to playing it for enjoyment and relaxation, that clearly marks you as a loser in real life.

You see, there's where you are wrong, The only one's asking for special treatment are the ones who can pay for it. What macro loop gives is a equal treatment to all. Anyone can use, anyone can be abused using it. If u don't like ppl using it. It's very simple take action and go disrupt his macro. But asking for devs to take action and remove it... Who's asking for special treatment now??

Also if u think "playing it for enjoyment" is doing af/helios/altar only and everyday. dude youre playing the wrong game. I don't need to win, but at least a chance to compete is enough to have fun.

Btw u have given the worst example ever. Sometimes it's not that simple "if u can't feed a family, don't have a family". Boy, shit happens, not everything is under control. Maybe one day u'll understand that.

I like you, Yidao, you're always bringing good and usefull information but this time you were unfortunate.

[Methodical]

Who can find a way to make adena is free to do so, there are no morals in economy and especially in capitalism,

pay ncoin > afk macro> buy sell (is afk shop bad mentality, also let us know). them guys paying and us paying, for their own damn satisfaction they dont do it for me the server or whatever they have interest in the game and thats it.

thanks

[Ztardust]

In my opinion, PK system is necessary to some points. and macro loop is necessary for some points. Even though I don't play with macro, I disagree to remove it. Because if some part of your body is not good at some point, you will completely remove it? I don't think so. That part is still good at another functions.

In L2, There is auto target acquirement function to the attacker even though you didn't use next target. PK Scammer uses that function to do scam. If no mobs are not near you, you keep target to flagged char and Next Target : Monster is no more working. To use that function, no mobs must be around, so scammers uses tank to pull out the macro players from farming zone. But that is done by server side. not on client side.

I've found some ways.

1. First Method

Like Next Target to Monster option, If game developers add auto target taking option On and Off To attacker or Completely remove auto target taking function. It will solve the problem. But This method still have problem for skill with no target required. (like Danger Zone attack, Snare, Death Howl, Chain Guest, Rising Smash etc).

2. Second Method

Adding Function to stop macro loop when player gain kama or reach to chaotic state. This is simply just macro loop is stopped when you gained kama.

By this way, a people who do macro need to take care of himself, Because if you have PK count 4 or more, you will have chance to drop. so, whenever you are dead with kama, You need to reduce PK count.

3. Third Method

Adding function again that need force attack to pvp even for non target required skills. This is the best option for me. If Next Target to Monster is Set, you need force attack to make pvp. and When Next Target to Taunt or PC, change to normal again.

But this method might need so much works to developer. 

 

Method 1 and 3 can't open war via macro players anymore, Method 2 still can open war via macro players.

 

[AgathaC]

The problem with a "free PK for all" system is those 110 overgeared dudes that will be all the time pking lvl 85 lowbies. In the original Bartz i had to create a clan to hunt Pks 85+ that were all day in 74-84 spots. The only pk of that time that was a "good" pk because it killed all was j33t... 

With the ncstore items that allow to one hit anything a free for all system will lead to a more dead server. 

There are ways to deal with macro players without using "bad" methods, you can allways move them to spots that stuck them and they will be 24/7 without doing nothing

If you can make a pk system where there is a damage restriction between the pk and the pk'ed, with a good lvl restriction (it can be something progressive, 10lvl for lower lvls, 5 for the range between 85-99, and 3 or 2 for the higher ones), for me is all ok. There should be a penalty for pk, and i think the forced 0% res would be nice (more if you loss more % according to your karma or pk number) or instance entrance restriction (so you are forced to clean the pk on open field, lets see how easy is that ). If you dont like it, there are plenty of pk scrolls on the ah

Something nice for me would be a combat zone defined by a radius close to any field rb (if the rb move, the combat zone move with it). You want to kill a raid, you will be forced to fight hehe

[Spirrow]

@Juji 

since they do not want to correct these faults of the person of the pk in char who is already pk and the useless removes the karma before dying. Too bad these Bugs from L2 where you have a problem.
They should check the accounts that do this, better to change the system of drops pk instead of dropping these shit break soon those bleep was not going to gain anything bugando and would just do for fun and you would be happy sitting in the chair and looking l2 classic while the live is still full of flaws

better than doing nothing and always respond.
We are working on it via telepathy,

 

In Naia are now using the failure of PK Player,
where he hits the Monster until he leaves 1 ~ 3% of hp, healer celestial use waits to end up coming near the players in the macro in PVE mode and without AOE that can Flag players, kills the monster with 1 ~ 3% of hp with another dd, and puff give PK !.
this is a bad L2 fault where it is not common and you already know but always respond "everything is working properly"

if this is to work properly, better give up everything that is Games. because this is a FAILURE of yours.

GL All people start to use bug,

the other method is to make the dd of the party flag even in target Monster, and pull with a tanker making it not lose the same flag monster the character can not stop attacking the tanker, logging 1 char level low flag the char level low wait for the time of 16 ~ 18s of the flag is ending enter with low level char near the tanker making the DD stay PK!

stupid method without scrupulous where ncsoft support responds "our system is 100% functional" as I would like to live in your country.

[Pleistoros]

Heya, Why you have to complain for everything, nothing is good enough for you...Macro loop was never build for 24/7. If you do that its on your own risk.

On the other hand i didnt saw in high lvl areas ppl macro afk...ok, mby iss was on macro and mby one more player. but that was all..
So, my question is: What lvl range we talk for macro loop afk 24/7? 85-90/90-95/95-99/99-101/101-103, 103-105 hard but possible/105+ its not possible(except for 15-20 players on each server).
Regarding 1-103 lvl macro afk...the debate is between "adena macro afk players" and "mean players who made them drop". In my eyes everybody got what deserve.
Here my proposal: make macro loop available only for 103+, its a win win situation.

Truth is if you are under 103 after all those years of playing, after recent lvl boost offered for free by JuJi&Co....what can I say... better quit the game.(and, no there are no new fresh players...just old lazy dudes and macro adena botters).

Better ask NcSoft to lower even more equip gap between players...I admit by puting in store few items permanent was a wise decision....but we need more, much more.
What you say @Juji ?