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Dearpie

Why are SWS dps nerfed unlike BDs?

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Dearpie    3

Sws gets

lvl 15 weapon mastery patk +8.5%, additionally +4

lvl 74 sword/blunt mastery lvl 45 patk +76.4 and armor mastery +172.6 pdef -35% crit dmg

Totals: Patk +80.4 and Pdef +172.6 -35% crit dmg

BD Gets...

lvl 15 weapon mastery patk +8.5%, additionally +4

lvl 36 sword/blunt mastery lvl 8 patk +11.1

lvl 74 dual weapon mastery +129.3 patk! and  armor mastery +172.6 pdef -35% crit dmg

Totals: Patk +144.4!!! and yet get same Pdef +172.6 -35% crit dmg

So why does the BD get the same defenses while also getting WAY more Damage! Songs and Dances counter out each other but the Weapon masteries and defense masteries DO NOT. Sws should get more patk added to their sword/blunt mastery or give 2H or Dual masteries. 

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xHaseo    82

Maybe 'cause BD is LOCKED to Duals while SWS can pretty much use any weapon 'cause they can Song anyway? Maybe 'cause SWS got way more self buffs and can even heal while BD can't? Maybe 'cause Dark elfs are DD oriented classes? Not sure, pick one :)

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Dearpie    3
Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, xHaseo said:

Maybe 'cause BD is LOCKED to Duals while SWS can pretty much use any weapon 'cause they can Song anyway? Maybe 'cause SWS got way more self buffs and can even heal while BD can't? Maybe 'cause Dark elfs are DD oriented classes? Not sure, pick one :)

You clearly dont get it at all and just trolling like the usual idiots. Because they can use any weapon that means they should have crap dps?? Thats the most stupid thing i have ever heard. Also they only get sword blunt masteries so its pointless to use anything else except for dagger pretty much. Sws gets more self buffs... lmao stupid argument. Selfbuffs dont matter at all as everyone runs around with pp or wc buffs and the heal is useless with the long casting speed. Its also just a light elf thing. Just like Dark elfs have their things like more damage at night. Has nothing to do with sws vs bd weapon masteries not being equal. That argument makes no sense for the lack of weapon masteries vs BD. If BD are all dd oriented than why does the sws get hunter and if sws is not dd oriented than why dont we get more Pdef in our masteries? If you want to make an argument, make a logical one or shut up. Sws and BD should be on pair dps wise when it comes to masteries since they made us useless as tanks. BD and sws even get the same shield masteries ffs. Why dont we get more shield masteries if we arent DD oriented? Anyone want to actually not be a troll and talk logic?

Edited by Dearpie

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xHaseo    82

You really took that on personal level, don't you? You're probably one of the l2java players who are trying to do something in official and will end up failing. If this is such a HUGE problem for you, it means you never been into official back when both BD and SWS had no heavy mastery after lv 40. Or barely had offensive skills.

Here, let me teach you how SWS and BD works.

BDs are 'damage-dealers' and 'damage supports', they increase their own DPS and the one of their pt members. In this "design" is quite natural if they got the same power in mastery of a Gladiator. They can dance ONLY with duals, locking them to a 1-weapon only. You can see BDs using Bows in PvP but almost any class should have at least a bow. 

SWS are 'support-supports' and 'tank assist', they increase their own survivability and the one of their pt members. Following this logic, it's natural that their p.atk is lower in mastery 'cause they can wear any weapon and get almost no penalty. They can use their shield mastery while having a dagger and they would be able to song. 

You seems to ignore the game basic. Classes coming from Dark elves are ALWAYS been stronger, dps wise, than others. Just look at Ghost Hunters, Storm Screamers and Ghost Sentinels. Or, even easier, look at the Shillien Knight. He lacks of HP but he's a good DPS-tank and an annoyer. 
Classes coming from Elves are mostly "defensive/sustain" classes, their strong point is about being able to survive. Reason why elves got, on any fighter, the skill to heal. Reason why classes like Silver rangers and Plains walker are 'speed' based DPS. Same reason why the Eva templar got lots of freaking heals and self-sustain. 

Also, while you cry for no reason and i try to explain you how Lineage 2 works since ever, you should remember that any class/race got his own pros and cons. If you want an SWS with the p.def of a tank, the m.def of a mage and the p.atk of a titan, then you should uninstall official and go play some private java server with multi-class. I would love to learn Mirage and Dash on my Ghost Hunter. Can i? no. Should i blame the game for that? no. We still land tons of damage with 1 blow, our "con" is that we lack of survivability. 
 

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Dearpie    3
4 hours ago, xHaseo said:

You really took that on personal level, don't you? You're probably one of the l2java players who are trying to do something in official and will end up failing. If this is such a HUGE problem for you, it means you never been into official back when both BD and SWS had no heavy mastery after lv 40. Or barely had offensive skills.

Here, let me teach you how SWS and BD works.

BDs are 'damage-dealers' and 'damage supports', they increase their own DPS and the one of their pt members. In this "design" is quite natural if they got the same power in mastery of a Gladiator. They can dance ONLY with duals, locking them to a 1-weapon only. You can see BDs using Bows in PvP but almost any class should have at least a bow. 

SWS are 'support-supports' and 'tank assist', they increase their own survivability and the one of their pt members. Following this logic, it's natural that their p.atk is lower in mastery 'cause they can wear any weapon and get almost no penalty. They can use their shield mastery while having a dagger and they would be able to song. 

You seems to ignore the game basic. Classes coming from Dark elves are ALWAYS been stronger, dps wise, than others. Just look at Ghost Hunters, Storm Screamers and Ghost Sentinels. Or, even easier, look at the Shillien Knight. He lacks of HP but he's a good DPS-tank and an annoyer. 
Classes coming from Elves are mostly "defensive/sustain" classes, their strong point is about being able to survive. Reason why elves got, on any fighter, the skill to heal. Reason why classes like Silver rangers and Plains walker are 'speed' based DPS. Same reason why the Eva templar got lots of freaking heals and self-sustain. 

Also, while you cry for no reason and i try to explain you how Lineage 2 works since ever, you should remember that any class/race got his own pros and cons. If you want an SWS with the p.def of a tank, the m.def of a mage and the p.atk of a titan, then you should uninstall official and go play some private java server with multi-class. I would love to learn Mirage and Dash on my Ghost Hunter. Can i? no. Should i blame the game for that? no. We still land tons of damage with 1 blow, our "con" is that we lack of survivability. 
 

You are just one of those people who take the tail pipe up the rear because you think you are cool to not say anything aka cry inwhich you like to keep talking about. All while ignoring all logic and a clear lopsided situation. By your logic the Silver ranger should get a lower Bow mastery than the Phantom Ranger.... yet they both get +794.6 patk at lvl 74. 

 

Its clear as day as i have laid out the numbers for even the stupid to understand. If we dont get more pdef or shield masteries than we should be getting the same amount of weapon masteries as our counter part. So stop with the dumb light elf vs dark elf bs that has no bearing on the cause in point. Just like we get cure bleed while they get sting. Thats how balance works and right now we do not get the defense to counter their offense. Yet we also get less offense. So take a step away and realize there is a clear unbalance between the two and stop trying to argue something that you clearly are losing. 

Your pride is in the way of logic and you just want to pretend to be the good guy. You want to pretend you know something that hasnt been pointed out. All while having no real argument of the ACTUAL NUMBERS AND UNBALANCE. It is crystal clear that there is a huge problem here and you just want to accept it for some reason. I have pointed out the numbers and the skills. You have done nothing but make stupid arguments that clearly has nothing to do with SWS vs BD. Apples to apples! 

Here, read the numbers again....

 

Sws gets

lvl 15 weapon mastery patk +8.5%, additionally +4

lvl 74 sword/blunt mastery lvl 45 patk +76.4 and armor mastery +172.6 pdef -35% crit dmg

Totals: Patk +80.4 and Pdef +172.6 -35% crit dmg

BD Gets...

lvl 15 weapon mastery patk +8.5%, additionally +4

lvl 36 sword/blunt mastery lvl 8 patk +11.1

lvl 74 dual weapon mastery +129.3 patk! and  armor mastery +172.6 pdef -35% crit dmg

Totals: Patk +144.4!!! and yet get same Pdef +172.6 -35% crit dmg

So why does the BD get the same defenses while also getting WAY more Damage! Songs and Dances counter out each other but the Weapon masteries and defense masteries DO NOT. Sws should get more patk added to their sword/blunt mastery or give 2H or Dual masteries.

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Anllazsn    4

You have to compare sws to others tanks like dark avenger and compare bladedancer with gladiators.

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Donovan    0
Posted (edited)

Holy crap.. all of you need to stop comparing races! We are talking about classes and their masteries! Good grief! By these other people logic the SR should get less bow masteries than a PR lol

This is about the classes abilities and masteries! Not about RACES. We all know the stat differences with each race so shut it about race bs. This is about comparing classes and it's clear the sws by the numbers is under powered and dont even get more pdef or shield masteries to compensate!

Edited by Donovan

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Donovan    0
2 minutes ago, Anllazsn said:

You have to compare sws to others tanks like dark avenger and compare bladedancer with gladiators.

Wrong! Has nothing to do with real tanks. BD and sws are compared just like SK to TK. Get with it.

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Anllazsn    4
Just now, Donovan said:

Wrong! Has nothing to do with real tanks. BD and sws are compared just like SK to TK. Get with it.

Was talking about the masterys, dual sword and sword.

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Donovan    0
2 hours ago, Anllazsn said:

Was talking about the masterys, dual sword and sword.

Why would I compare a sws to a tank? Sws is not a tank! If he was a tank then he would get more pdef masteries and shield masteries like tanks. Sws is the counter to BD! Yet no one compares a bd to tank but some reason want to with a sws cause the real problem is they are a nerfed class compared to the bd counter class. Which is why I even put the numbers up for all to see the numbers proving sws is a nerfed class.

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xHaseo    82

I already pointed out why SWS is not strong as a BD : design. 
It's like qqing 'cause Duelist has no Totems while their counter-part (tyrant) does. 
If you call "balance" the fact that elves got "cure bleed" while dark elves got "sting" then my argument "SWS has lower p.atk 'cause he can song with ANY weapon" should be enough.

Comparing the archers to supports like SWS/BD is useless. Their balance comes in other terms. SR are atk spd and PR are heavy DPS. 
I really don't understand why you are so mad about this since this is how it was since d1 of those classes. It's as easy as i told ya, design. 
SWS can song with any weapon w/o problems while BDs are locked to duals if they wannt dance so they got a lil boost on p.atk when using duals. 
Then why don't you blame Kamales 'cause their xbow mastery gives 388 p.atk bonus vs archer's 790 bonus. It's no sense, this is how they were designed. 

Seriously, go get some tissue and stop crying for SWS having barely 70 points of mastery less, no one is forcing you to play SWS if you think it's nerfed, lol.

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HotSoup    4

Good points, Dearpie. SwS gets kinda screwed over compared to BD. And yes i think those two classes should be compared. The fact that SwS only gets sword/blunt but doesn't get any more shield skills feels ridiculous. Not being limited by what weapon you use while singing is irrelevant, especially since buffs are now 5 minutes and any BD can buy some cheap ass duals to do his dance thang with and then switch weapons back quick (unless this new classic has changed something i have not noticed.)

I don't think they should go the damage route hough, I think they should have given SwS at least 1 more lvl of shield mastery skill, and perhaps a low level shield bash or something. OR even give him a song that up's shield defense rate for party, that's pretty in character with the other SwS songs.

Honestly, I would be happy if they would just give the SwS Song of Earth (pdef) at level 40 class change instead of Song of Warding (mdef). BD gets Dance of Fire at 40 and has no problem getting parties with it. SwS on the other hand gets crapped on songs until lvl 49 song of hunter, nobody likes a party member who can't really tank without wearing out healers mana, can't DD, and has no good songs until 49 (wind is ok I guess, but it won't get you a party over a BD).

SwS level 40 through 48 was so lonely :(

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Dearpie    3
22 hours ago, xHaseo said:

I already pointed out why SWS is not strong as a BD : design. 
It's like qqing 'cause Duelist has no Totems while their counter-part (tyrant) does. 
If you call "balance" the fact that elves got "cure bleed" while dark elves got "sting" then my argument "SWS has lower p.atk 'cause he can song with ANY weapon" should be enough.

Comparing the archers to supports like SWS/BD is useless. Their balance comes in other terms. SR are atk spd and PR are heavy DPS. 
I really don't understand why you are so mad about this since this is how it was since d1 of those classes. It's as easy as i told ya, design. 
SWS can song with any weapon w/o problems while BDs are locked to duals if they wannt dance so they got a lil boost on p.atk when using duals. 
Then why don't you blame Kamales 'cause their xbow mastery gives 388 p.atk bonus vs archer's 790 bonus. It's no sense, this is how they were designed. 

Seriously, go get some tissue and stop crying for SWS having barely 70 points of mastery less, no one is forcing you to play SWS if you think it's nerfed, lol.

Bro GET OFF THE RACE DIFFERENCES for the last time! This has nothing to do with RACIAL ABILITIES! wow its not rocket science! NO singing with any weapon is a stupid argument and obvisiously irrelevant! Also if you are in a party with a BD you dont want to Sing faster than him! Good grief.. Which is why we should also get dual weapon masteries or 2H weapon masteries like our counterpart so we dont use a weapon that makes us sing faster than they can dance. Do you even play sws? Ill gladly be locked to a weapon that makes sense and give us the dps we should have!  

Comparing archers is not useless if you would get off your high horse and understand the comparison being made! You just seem to want to argue and defend NCsoft or NCwest for some reason that is absurd. I provided the numbers and provided evidence that sws is nerfed period so get over it and accept reality. 

Seriously, go to your safe space and stop trying to be an internet tough guy. You have no Argument and clearly dont want to accept the evidence provided so you make pathetic and non related comparisons that dont apply to the clear issue. Grow up and stop arguing when you cant even debate the evidence provided. 

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Dearpie    3
19 hours ago, HotSoup said:

Good points, Dearpie. SwS gets kinda screwed over compared to BD. And yes i think those two classes should be compared. The fact that SwS only gets sword/blunt but doesn't get any more shield skills feels ridiculous. Not being limited by what weapon you use while singing is irrelevant, especially since buffs are now 5 minutes and any BD can buy some cheap ass duals to do his dance thang with and then switch weapons back quick (unless this new classic has changed something i have not noticed.)

I don't think they should go the damage route hough, I think they should have given SwS at least 1 more lvl of shield mastery skill, and perhaps a low level shield bash or something. OR even give him a song that up's shield defense rate for party, that's pretty in character with the other SwS songs.

Honestly, I would be happy if they would just give the SwS Song of Earth (pdef) at level 40 class change instead of Song of Warding (mdef). BD gets Dance of Fire at 40 and has no problem getting parties with it. SwS on the other hand gets crapped on songs until lvl 49 song of hunter, nobody likes a party member who can't really tank without wearing out healers mana, can't DD, and has no good songs until 49 (wind is ok I guess, but it won't get you a party over a BD).

SwS level 40 through 48 was so lonely :(

Thank you for being able to comprehend the issue and have a reasonable debate. Although i disagree with sws getting more pdef since we will never be a true tank I appreciate your reasonable debate. I love the fact we get defense songs but there is no use for us to have more defense masteries. We will never have the dps like a destroyer but we should be equal to our counter the BD in dps. Why we lack the patk masteries is baffling to me and my hope is one day they fix this. I rerolled to sws to be able to support our core players but there is no reason for the lack of weapon masteries when the BD does not have to withstand this nerf. Why some people argue that sws is fine is beyond me when the numbers are put right infront of their face, yet ignore the evidence. But I would love to see the sws get what they deserve and that 50 patk on our weapon masteries would be much appreciated since it clearly should be put in place. 

Thanks Hotsoup and keep on singing!

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xHaseo    82
1 hour ago, Dearpie said:

Bro GET OFF THE RACE DIFFERENCES for the last time! This has nothing to do with RACIAL ABILITIES! wow its not rocket science! NO singing with any weapon is a stupid argument and obvisiously irrelevant! Also if you are in a party with a BD you dont want to Sing faster than him! Good grief.. Which is why we should also get dual weapon masteries or 2H weapon masteries like our counterpart so we dont use a weapon that makes us sing faster than they can dance. Do you even play sws? Ill gladly be locked to a weapon that makes sense and give us the dps we should have!  

Comparing archers is not useless if you would get off your high horse and understand the comparison being made! You just seem to want to argue and defend NCsoft or NCwest for some reason that is absurd. I provided the numbers and provided evidence that sws is nerfed period so get over it and accept reality. 

Seriously, go to your safe space and stop trying to be an internet tough guy. You have no Argument and clearly dont want to accept the evidence provided so you make pathetic and non related comparisons that dont apply to the clear issue. Grow up and stop arguing when you cant even debate the evidence provided. 

What's wrong with ur brain dude? It really seems to be off. Just 'cause YOU don't want to take them as arguments, doesn't mean they are not valid LOL. You are just crying over something that was ALWAYS like this. Even back in interlude, even back in H5, ALWAYS. And now you come out of nowhere, for some reason, and start QQing that for you it's not fair? I gave you a FAIR reason why your mastery is the same of a tank. 

I'm not defending NCsoft or NCwest, LOL, i'm just telling you that this is how it works since EVER so i don't get why you are crying so hard over this fact, 15 years later. Maybe it's ur first time in L2 and first time playing SWS, but i NEVER, in 13 years in L2, ever saw someone crying as hard as you for something like that. 
"OMG MY MASTERY GIVES 70 P.ATK INSTEAD OF 129 QQQQQ WHYYYY QQQQQQ" ignoring the fact you're a SUPPORT. 

Thanks god now you guys learn Heavy mastery after lv 40, otherwise i bet you would commit suicide. Back then you had a weak mastery on p.atk and even in defense, 'cause it was capped at level 35 and not 40+. 

The only difference here between classic and live version is that, beside extras, SWS learn Hunter at lv 40 and not at 49. I would by far understand if you were crying for that reason since Hunter is a really usefull song, but no, you're qqing for a mastery that they had since ever like that. Oh but maybe i got it!

You're one of the l2java rats who is used to the life on H5 servers, so the reason you are crying here for the mastery is 'cause you have noticed that you miss the "Battle Whisper" skill that used to increase offensive-stats of SWS and now you're mad about it. 

So, once again, this is it : game design. If you want to play the game of the 'counter-part' then please, enlight me, why does GK got totems while Duelist don't? They are 'counter-parts' since they were designed to be 'similar'. Duelist is the stronger-but-slower version of the weaker-but-faster Grand Khavatari. There's no "nerf" or anything, game design. 

 

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xHaseo    82
Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, HotSoup said:

Good points, Dearpie. SwS gets kinda screwed over compared to BD. And yes i think those two classes should be compared. The fact that SwS only gets sword/blunt but doesn't get any more shield skills feels ridiculous. Not being limited by what weapon you use while singing is irrelevant, especially since buffs are now 5 minutes and any BD can buy some cheap ass duals to do his dance thang with and then switch weapons back quick (unless this new classic has changed something i have not noticed.)

I don't think they should go the damage route hough, I think they should have given SwS at least 1 more lvl of shield mastery skill, and perhaps a low level shield bash or something. OR even give him a song that up's shield defense rate for party, that's pretty in character with the other SwS songs.

Honestly, I would be happy if they would just give the SwS Song of Earth (pdef) at level 40 class change instead of Song of Warding (mdef). BD gets Dance of Fire at 40 and has no problem getting parties with it. SwS on the other hand gets crapped on songs until lvl 49 song of hunter, nobody likes a party member who can't really tank without wearing out healers mana, can't DD, and has no good songs until 49 (wind is ok I guess, but it won't get you a party over a BD).

SwS level 40 through 48 was so lonely :(

Even tho it's true that, for some reason, they gave them at 40 the m.def song instead of hunter (like it used to be), i don't get what's wrong with you private-server players nowdays. 

BD are not switching out weapons 'cause they must have duals to dance. So it would be useless to get another weapon, beside bow, for hunt. 

And it's true that you can take some lowbie duals to just dance, but then what? You switch to a sword and get lesser p.atk 'cause you don't have a mastery? what's the point? lol. I'm not even suppose to land tons of dmg, i'm a support!
Bows are the only extra-weapon they carry 'cause it allows you to hit from range, which is usefull in some PvE and PvP scenarios.

And the fact that SWS got a lower-mastery 'cause they can use any weapon to use their KEY-FEATURE which is SONG, it's quite a 'legit' reason. They can wear dagger+shield and still being able to song w/o wasting extra adenas for a 'song-only' weapon. 

But what you guys seems to miss here is that SWS and BD are not meant to solo-hunt, i mean, both of them can with a proper setup, ofc, but they are pt-support. So they're like WCs or Prophet : yeah they CAN solo hunt but they don't 'cause it's kinda meh. With this Rune system in classic server where you can put a huge critical rate boost on auto-attacks, it's even easier for SWS to solo after 49 since you boost crt rate by 100%. 

And out of all the reason this kid could cry for, he cries for a mastery that is like that since ever. Classic version has SB drop rate lowered to 0.01%, SWS got hunter at 49 instead of 40, almost any armor looks bad on elfs...but no. He's crying for a 15 years old mastery. 

Oh and btw, if you think BD life is easier 'cause "they got fire at 40 qq" you have 0 clue how this games work or how things goes. 'cause yes, fire is usefull for the classes that can crit, but if you're in pt with mages, then you're useless up 'till 49 as well. In the other hand, SWS at lv 40 boost ur m.def, at 46 +20 speed and then at 49 hunter. M.def is usefull for the whole pt while fire is usefull only for fighters pts. So? At level 55 SWS learn both Vitality and Earth, increasing ur whole pt HPs by 30% and p.def by 25%. BD at 55 learn just 1 dance, the warrior one. So? I didn't see any BD qqing that they learn just 1 dance at lv 55, and thinking the same way the OT does, that's "nerfed". Oh, and did i mention the fact that SWS can actually HEAL HIMSELF with his skills whenever he wants while BD gotta cast 'drain HP' to recover the 20% of a loldmg inflicted on target? Why can't BD heal himself like his counterpart? 

Oh, right, 'cause this is how Elves and Dark elves are designed. I wonder why it doesn't apply to classes as well, those are not meant to be designed, i guess.

Edited by xHaseo

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HotSoup    4
1 hour ago, xHaseo said:

Even tho it's true that, for some reason, they gave them at 40 the m.def song instead of hunter (like it used to be), i don't get what's wrong with you private-server players nowdays. 

BD are not switching out weapons 'cause they must have duals to dance. So it would be useless to get another weapon, beside bow, for hunt. 

And it's true that you can take some lowbie duals to just dance, but then what? You switch to a sword and get lesser p.atk 'cause you don't have a mastery? what's the point? lol. I'm not even suppose to land tons of dmg, i'm a support!
Bows are the only extra-weapon they carry 'cause it allows you to hit from range, which is usefull in some PvE and PvP scenarios.

And the fact that SWS got a lower-mastery 'cause they can use any weapon to use their KEY-FEATURE which is SONG, it's quite a 'legit' reason. They can wear dagger+shield and still being able to song w/o wasting extra adenas for a 'song-only' weapon. 

But what you guys seems to miss here is that SWS and BD are not meant to solo-hunt, i mean, both of them can with a proper setup, ofc, but they are pt-support. So they're like WCs or Prophet : yeah they CAN solo hunt but they don't 'cause it's kinda meh. With this Rune system in classic server where you can put a huge critical rate boost on auto-attacks, it's even easier for SWS to solo after 49 since you boost crt rate by 100%. 

And out of all the reason this kid could cry for, he cries for a mastery that is like that since ever. Classic version has SB drop rate lowered to 0.01%, SWS got hunter at 49 instead of 40, almost any armor looks bad on elfs...but no. He's crying for a 15 years old mastery. 

Oh and btw, if you think BD life is easier 'cause "they got fire at 40 qq" you have 0 clue how this games work or how things goes. 'cause yes, fire is usefull for the classes that can crit, but if you're in pt with mages, then you're useless up 'till 49 as well. In the other hand, SWS at lv 40 boost ur m.def, at 46 +20 speed and then at 49 hunter. M.def is usefull for the whole pt while fire is usefull only for fighters pts. So? At level 55 SWS learn both Vitality and Earth, increasing ur whole pt HPs by 30% and p.def by 25%. BD at 55 learn just 1 dance, the warrior one. So? I didn't see any BD qqing that they learn just 1 dance at lv 55, and thinking the same way the OT does, that's "nerfed". Oh, and did i mention the fact that SWS can actually HEAL HIMSELF with his skills whenever he wants while BD gotta cast 'drain HP' to recover the 20% of a loldmg inflicted on target? Why can't BD heal himself like his counterpart? 

Oh, right, 'cause this is how Elves and Dark elves are designed. I wonder why it doesn't apply to classes as well, those are not meant to be designed, i guess.

-hehe, you so hostile brah :) , we just talking Lineage 2, i love both of these classes.

-I don't play on illegal servers, just original chronicle officials in early 2000's and classic.

-You kind of contradict yourself when saying that BD's won't switch to different weapon because they don't have other mastery but that SwS's can. That is the same situation for SwS, he only gets blunt/sword mastery (not dagger p.attack from what i know). So we both in same boat if we want that extra P.attack from core skill weapon. I have been using Duals+ with othel on my SwS and never looked back (i'm close to same level Gladiator p.attack), so i'm not sure if having mastery for weapons matters that much anymore since runes and such, but if SwS had some sort of actual shield skills then i might decide to limit myself (but it don't) so like SwS you're not really limited by mastery either (you might waste a few soulshots switching back and forth though :))

-So don't join a mage party? You shouldn't ever have a problem getting a melee party.

-I agree that SwS gets easier to solo with thanks to othel rune and song of hunter.

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Dearpie    3
2 hours ago, xHaseo said:

What's wrong with ur brain dude? It really seems to be off. Just 'cause YOU don't want to take them as arguments, doesn't mean they are not valid LOL. You are just crying over something that was ALWAYS like this. Even back in interlude, even back in H5, ALWAYS. And now you come out of nowhere, for some reason, and start QQing that for you it's not fair? I gave you a FAIR reason why your mastery is the same of a tank. 

I'm not defending NCsoft or NCwest, LOL, i'm just telling you that this is how it works since EVER so i don't get why you are crying so hard over this fact, 15 years later. Maybe it's ur first time in L2 and first time playing SWS, but i NEVER, in 13 years in L2, ever saw someone crying as hard as you for something like that. 
"OMG MY MASTERY GIVES 70 P.ATK INSTEAD OF 129 QQQQQ WHYYYY QQQQQQ" ignoring the fact you're a SUPPORT. 

Thanks god now you guys learn Heavy mastery after lv 40, otherwise i bet you would commit suicide. Back then you had a weak mastery on p.atk and even in defense, 'cause it was capped at level 35 and not 40+. 

The only difference here between classic and live version is that, beside extras, SWS learn Hunter at lv 40 and not at 49. I would by far understand if you were crying for that reason since Hunter is a really usefull song, but no, you're qqing for a mastery that they had since ever like that. Oh but maybe i got it!

You're one of the l2java rats who is used to the life on H5 servers, so the reason you are crying here for the mastery is 'cause you have noticed that you miss the "Battle Whisper" skill that used to increase offensive-stats of SWS and now you're mad about it. 

So, once again, this is it : game design. If you want to play the game of the 'counter-part' then please, enlight me, why does GK got totems while Duelist don't? They are 'counter-parts' since they were designed to be 'similar'. Duelist is the stronger-but-slower version of the weaker-but-faster Grand Khavatari. There's no "nerf" or anything, game design. 

 

Again you have no argument and just want to keep repeating yourself about someone crying. Thats what people do when they have no argument and nothing to support their lack of an argument. You cant defend the undefendable bro. Sws is nerfed and you just want to take it up the rear cause "thats how it has always been" lmao stfu So they have never done class changes before???? They never did any fixes back then? Yes, they did cause i was there 15 years ago also. Good feedback with numbers like I have provided helps them make those changes. It brings attention to the problem. But please continue to live with it cause you are to arrogant to admit there is a clear issue and too "cool" to say anything or do figure it out like i did. SO instead you just come here to troll with NO Argument! Just the same thing over and over,, you are crying blah blah. You must be a BD and like being overpowered compared to your counter class. Or you just wanted to argue and look like a tool. Im guessing you are just the latter. Go do something else with your time since you obviously dont have any common sense and dont want to be helpful. 

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Dearpie    3
2 hours ago, xHaseo said:

Even tho it's true that, for some reason, they gave them at 40 the m.def song instead of hunter (like it used to be), i don't get what's wrong with you private-server players nowdays. 

BD are not switching out weapons 'cause they must have duals to dance. So it would be useless to get another weapon, beside bow, for hunt. 

And it's true that you can take some lowbie duals to just dance, but then what? You switch to a sword and get lesser p.atk 'cause you don't have a mastery? what's the point? lol. I'm not even suppose to land tons of dmg, i'm a support!
Bows are the only extra-weapon they carry 'cause it allows you to hit from range, which is usefull in some PvE and PvP scenarios.

And the fact that SWS got a lower-mastery 'cause they can use any weapon to use their KEY-FEATURE which is SONG, it's quite a 'legit' reason. They can wear dagger+shield and still being able to song w/o wasting extra adenas for a 'song-only' weapon. 

But what you guys seems to miss here is that SWS and BD are not meant to solo-hunt, i mean, both of them can with a proper setup, ofc, but they are pt-support. So they're like WCs or Prophet : yeah they CAN solo hunt but they don't 'cause it's kinda meh. With this Rune system in classic server where you can put a huge critical rate boost on auto-attacks, it's even easier for SWS to solo after 49 since you boost crt rate by 100%. 

And out of all the reason this kid could cry for, he cries for a mastery that is like that since ever. Classic version has SB drop rate lowered to 0.01%, SWS got hunter at 49 instead of 40, almost any armor looks bad on elfs...but no. He's crying for a 15 years old mastery. 

Oh and btw, if you think BD life is easier 'cause "they got fire at 40 qq" you have 0 clue how this games work or how things goes. 'cause yes, fire is usefull for the classes that can crit, but if you're in pt with mages, then you're useless up 'till 49 as well. In the other hand, SWS at lv 40 boost ur m.def, at 46 +20 speed and then at 49 hunter. M.def is usefull for the whole pt while fire is usefull only for fighters pts. So? At level 55 SWS learn both Vitality and Earth, increasing ur whole pt HPs by 30% and p.def by 25%. BD at 55 learn just 1 dance, the warrior one. So? I didn't see any BD qqing that they learn just 1 dance at lv 55, and thinking the same way the OT does, that's "nerfed". Oh, and did i mention the fact that SWS can actually HEAL HIMSELF with his skills whenever he wants while BD gotta cast 'drain HP' to recover the 20% of a loldmg inflicted on target? Why can't BD heal himself like his counterpart? 

Oh, right, 'cause this is how Elves and Dark elves are designed. I wonder why it doesn't apply to classes as well, those are not meant to be designed, i guess.

I called it before i even read your next bs post. You are a BD and dont want your counter to be as good as you. Only a loser wants to keep another man nerfed so they can be the cool kid. You are scared to have your counter class be as good as you haha. Now it all makes sense! 

Again you go into your bs about a sws can heal. The heal is a RACE ability ffs! Stop bringing up Racial abilities for the last time! Are you truly that dense that this is NOT about Race abilities??? DEs can poison, LEs can cure poison, DE can do more dmg at night, LE can do a long casting heal etc etc etc Again for the slow.... These racial abilities HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE POST ABOUT.... WEAPON MASTERIES with regards to two classes that are supposed to be their Counter part! Wow is that simple enough for you? 

Make your own thread if you want to talk about Light elves vs Dark elves abilities! This Thread is about two counterpart classes WEAPON MASTERIES AND DEFENSE MASTERIES! Hope thats clear yet for the challenged. 

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Dearpie    3
45 minutes ago, HotSoup said:

-hehe, you so hostile brah :) , we just talking Lineage 2, i love both of these classes.

-I don't play on illegal servers, just original chronicle officials in early 2000's and classic.

-You kind of contradict yourself when saying that BD's won't switch to different weapon because they don't have other mastery but that SwS's can. That is the same situation for SwS, he only gets blunt/sword mastery (not dagger p.attack from what i know). So we both in same boat if we want that extra P.attack from core skill weapon. I have been using Duals+ with othel on my SwS and never looked back (i'm close to same level Gladiator p.attack), so i'm not sure if having mastery for weapons matters that much anymore since runes and such, but if SwS had some sort of actual shield skills then i might decide to limit myself (but it don't) so like SwS you're not really limited by mastery either (you might waste a few soulshots switching back and forth though :))

-So don't join a mage party? You shouldn't ever have a problem getting a melee party.

-I agree that SwS gets easier to solo with thanks to othel rune and song of hunter.

Why are you even agreeing with him about sws gets easier to solo with runes?? ALL Classes and everyone for that matter it got easier to solo with Runes. The hunter song does not stack with the Rune or increase the amount the rune gives to crit... If the rune gave you 100 p crit and the hunter song doubled it to 200 it would be something to talk about but it doesn't and he just assumed it does cause he hasnt done any testing like I have. But clearly as usual he doesnt even know this and brings up another pointless and baseless rebuttal. Good grief.  His Arguments never make sense and everything he brings up is pointless. Has nothing to do with the actual Topic at hand. smh 

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xHaseo    82

Dude i wont lose any more time to make you understand that : there's no "nerf", there's no "Problem", this is how SWS are. 

If you want to ask for a 'game-change' you must send a petition to moderators via the option you can find in the website, not crying here in forum for something none cares about. Cause none ever cried for SWS p.atk being lesser than a DD since it's a support. 

-

7 hours ago, HotSoup said:

-hehe, you so hostile brah :) , we just talking Lineage 2, i love both of these classes.

-I don't play on illegal servers, just original chronicle officials in early 2000's and classic.

-You kind of contradict yourself when saying that BD's won't switch to different weapon because they don't have other mastery but that SwS's can. That is the same situation for SwS, he only gets blunt/sword mastery (not dagger p.attack from what i know). So we both in same boat if we want that extra P.attack from core skill weapon. I have been using Duals+ with othel on my SwS and never looked back (i'm close to same level Gladiator p.attack), so i'm not sure if having mastery for weapons matters that much anymore since runes and such, but if SwS had some sort of actual shield skills then i might decide to limit myself (but it don't) so like SwS you're not really limited by mastery either (you might waste a few soulshots switching back and forth though :))

-So don't join a mage party? You shouldn't ever have a problem getting a melee party.

-I agree that SwS gets easier to solo with thanks to othel rune and song of hunter.

The fact is, BDs are not switching to any weapon not 'cause they can't, but because it's pointless. What's the point of buying more than duals if i need duals to dance? Duals p.atk is higher than other weapons, even tho the dmg is split between 2 hits and not just 1. SWS, in the other hand, by having the mastery for sword/Blunt, even if it's lower than DD ones, allows them to play with anything they want 'cause their song are not weapon-locked. So if you want to be a lil more tanky and get some bonus from passive you can go sword/blunt + shield. If you want to have higher p.atk you can go duals, bow or 2h sword...and you wont be affected that much since, again, you're a support and you're not meant to land tons of dmg. 

I can understand that this guy (actually i can't, it's the first time i see someone being so mad for a mastery) is mad 'cause his mastery is weaker and he want to be "fair" with the counter-part...but he just keep blabling this nosense of the "BD has duelist mastery and SWS got the tank mastery, they're nerfed, boost them!"...dude, relax, they wont. It's useless to repeat "i'm posting numbers" etc...there's nothing you can do about it. Is not a bug, is not something that need a fix...it's a feature of a support. There's a reason why in classic version Might of Heaven became a all-target skill for Buffers and also summoners got to level up "1st job class" nukes up 'till 76++. SWS and BD got heavy mastery, so they thought that was the only thing that needed a boost. And it is, it's awesome to be a lil more tanky with them now. Wish we had that mastery back in interlude, but we didn't. It took them YEARS and a totally NEW version of the game to add it. So, i wish you luck, but KRs are not gonna change it for just ur tears.

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Dearpie    3
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, xHaseo said:

Dude i wont lose any more time to make you understand that : there's no "nerf", there's no "Problem", this is how SWS are. 

If you want to ask for a 'game-change' you must send a petition to moderators via the option you can find in the website, not crying here in forum for something none cares about. Cause none ever cried for SWS p.atk being lesser than a DD since it's a support. 

-

The fact is, BDs are not switching to any weapon not 'cause they can't, but because it's pointless. What's the point of buying more than duals if i need duals to dance? Duals p.atk is higher than other weapons, even tho the dmg is split between 2 hits and not just 1. SWS, in the other hand, by having the mastery for sword/Blunt, even if it's lower than DD ones, allows them to play with anything they want 'cause their song are not weapon-locked. So if you want to be a lil more tanky and get some bonus from passive you can go sword/blunt + shield. If you want to have higher p.atk you can go duals, bow or 2h sword...and you wont be affected that much since, again, you're a support and you're not meant to land tons of dmg. 

I can understand that this guy (actually i can't, it's the first time i see someone being so mad for a mastery) is mad 'cause his mastery is weaker and he want to be "fair" with the counter-part...but he just keep blabling this nosense of the "BD has duelist mastery and SWS got the tank mastery, they're nerfed, boost them!"...dude, relax, they wont. It's useless to repeat "i'm posting numbers" etc...there's nothing you can do about it. Is not a bug, is not something that need a fix...it's a feature of a support. There's a reason why in classic version Might of Heaven became a all-target skill for Buffers and also summoners got to level up "1st job class" nukes up 'till 76++. SWS and BD got heavy mastery, so they thought that was the only thing that needed a boost. And it is, it's awesome to be a lil more tanky with them now. Wish we had that mastery back in interlude, but we didn't. It took them YEARS and a totally NEW version of the game to add it. So, i wish you luck, but KRs are not gonna change it for just ur tears.

Another worthless reply. All you do is try to be the internet tough guy with the QQ crap. God people like you ruin the gaming experience with your bs. Would love to see you talk in person. 

You have no rebuttal cause there is no explanation for the sws being nerfed compared to bd. Here, again ill post the numbers to try and keep the thread on the actual issue at hand. Since you have filled the thread with your bs.. All Everyone is going to read is your 20 replies of lame excuses for your counter class to be underpowered while you enjoy your class being on par with how the two classes should be. One day you will grow up and stop being the defender of such nerf to other classes. Ironic that you talk about others crying yet all do have done is cry about Race abilities. You sound like a little b... to me who just wants to argue for no reason. You dont even play a sws.... lmao

Sws gets

lvl 15 weapon mastery patk +8.5%, additionally +4

lvl 74 sword/blunt mastery lvl 45 patk +76.4 and armor mastery +172.6 pdef -35% crit dmg

Totals: Patk +80.4 and Pdef +172.6 -35% crit dmg

BD Gets...

lvl 15 weapon mastery patk +8.5%, additionally +4

lvl 36 sword/blunt mastery lvl 8 patk +11.1

lvl 74 dual weapon mastery +129.3 patk! and  armor mastery +172.6 pdef -35% crit dmg

Totals: Patk +144.4!!! and yet get same Pdef +172.6 -35% crit dmg

So why does the BD get the same defenses while also getting WAY more Damage! Songs and Dances counter out each other but the Weapon masteries and defense masteries DO NOT. Sws should get more patk added to their sword/blunt mastery or give 2H or Dual masteries. 

Here you go, the numbers close together for you since you cant seem to get it :)

SWS totals... Totals: Patk +80.4 and Pdef +172.6 -35% crit dmg

BD totals...    Totals: Patk +144.4!!! and yet get same Pdef +172.6 -35% crit dmg

Edited by Dearpie
  • Haha 1

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Aurinya    15

Greetings!

While we do encourage lively discussions, please lead them in a civil manner without insulting or name-calling each other, which is a violation of our LineageII forum’s Code of Conduct

Thank you!

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Blut    0

The BD P.att totals could be higher for the FACT that DEs have 41 str directly contributing to p.att. While LEs have 36 str . Have you thought of it from that standpoint? LEs are the weaker of the two, so they should be getting less P.att. Period.

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