brooch compound rate confirmed by ncsoft/ read fast

[Degus]

I've been fighting with the ncsoft crew about the dimentional bracelet compound rate for some time now, not only is it almost impossible now got compound but the imps almost never appear, even paying the 120 mill for 1200 crystals.  Long story short, after about 75 stone in the last 2 week, not 1 +3 b bracelet, almost ALL  failing going +1.  This being said, I was told in an email, this is the same compound rate as all compounding and it has been tested and confirmed to work as intended.   So take heed with this upcoming event, not only do they not give you the 3 gauranteed red cats eyes anymore, but good luck making even a level 3, never mind 4 or 5.  Peace, probably banned now.

[Neutron]

29 minutes ago, Degus said:

I've been fighting with the ncsoft crew about the dimentional bracelet compound rate for some time now, not only is it almost impossible now got compound but the imps almost never appear, even paying the 120 mill for 1200 crystals.  Long story short, after about 75 stone in the last 2 week, not 1 +3 b bracelet, almost ALL  failing going +1.  This being said, I was told in an email, this is the same compound rate as all compounding and it has been tested and confirmed to work as intended.   So take heed with this upcoming event, not only do they not give you the 3 gauranteed red cats eyes anymore, but good luck making even a level 3, never mind 4 or 5.  Peace, probably banned now.

Hello,

I just found your ticket for visibility this is all of what you were informed of as far as explanation on compounding in the various replies.

1. We tested compounding multiple times and there's nothing wrong with the said functionality. 
2. Compounding is designed to be rare by nature and it will stay the same to match the current status of the game.
3. Compounding an item is based on random mechanics. Given the possible chances that it may provide, it is uncertain what results every attempt will show.

I think you might have a misunderstanding of point number two, this does not mean compounding is the same rate applied to every item. This statement means the rate of compounding is not going to be changed in the current game design. 

~Thank You

[dUdot]

9 minutes ago, Neutron said:

Hello,

I just found your ticket for visibility this is all of what you were informed of as far as explanation on compounding in the various replies.

1. We tested compounding multiple times and there's nothing wrong with the said functionality. 
2. Compounding is designed to be rare by nature and it will stay the same to match the current status of the game.
3. Compounding an item is based on random mechanics. Given the possible chances that it may provide, it is uncertain what results every attempt will show.

I think you might have a misunderstanding of point number two, this does not mean compounding is the same rate applied to every item. This statement means the rate of compounding is not going to be changed in the current game design. 

~Thank You

Imps are bugged after 10th floor in Dimensional Warp. They appear, but we cannot target them

 

[mini]

How about some clarity to your user base on the rates of compounding? What's the problem with this being transparent? 

[Quitted]

Hello Neutron. Althought the compound rate may work as you said the dimensional warp imps don't. Simply they are on a different floor compared to the player.

There are several tickets sent by missula almost two months ago. For reference https://forums.lineage2.com/topic/1071-dimensional-warp/?tab=comments#comment-7842

We all hope you will be able to fix it soon.

To Degus you were, and are, one of the few MS with whom whoever can talk about anything. I feel it.

[Degus]

3 hours ago, Neutron said:

Hello,

I just found your ticket for visibility this is all of what you were informed of as far as explanation on compounding in the various replies.

1. We tested compounding multiple times and there's nothing wrong with the said functionality. 
2. Compounding is designed to be rare by nature and it will stay the same to match the current status of the game.
3. Compounding an item is based on random mechanics. Given the possible chances that it may provide, it is uncertain what results every attempt will show.

I think you might have a misunderstanding of point number two, this does not mean compounding is the same rate applied to every item. This statement means the rate of compounding is not going to be changed in the current game design. 

~Thank You

so are you saying  the compound rate is different depending on what you want?  this makes this even worse!  i made +5 cha bracelet, funny how i cant make a +2 str bracelet, if there are different odds for stats, your done.  please show us the results of the tests you ran, i dont believe you ran any at all or even have a clue what we are talking about.

[Truffle]

@Neutron

Will this event be giving 3 red/blue cats with each pack? Also, is it the new magnificent brooch?

[Degus]

These guys dont even understand the mechanics ot the game, its working as intended, how do i have almost every brooch jewl level 4 rotting in my wh, why i spend 1200 warp crystals and not 1 imp spawns, i have an email, "cant share it here cuz thats not allowed" saying compound rate is the same and is working as intended,   DONT BUY BROOCH JEWLS, ITS A SCAM, THEY WONT COMPOUND!!!!!!!!

[Auburn]

7 hours ago, Neutron said:

Hello,

I just found your ticket for visibility this is all of what you were informed of as far as explanation on compounding in the various replies.

1. We tested compounding multiple times and there's nothing wrong with the said functionality. 
2. Compounding is designed to be rare by nature and it will stay the same to match the current status of the game.
3. Compounding an item is based on random mechanics. Given the possible chances that it may provide, it is uncertain what results every attempt will show.

I think you might have a misunderstanding of point number two, this does not mean compounding is the same rate applied to every item. This statement means the rate of compounding is not going to be changed in the current game design. 

~Thank You

I would just like to point out something about the BOLD portion of your comment here. The current status of the game is a direct reflection of the L2 Store, because this is something that we can acutally do to improve our character for FREE without having to spend a DIME yet you choose to keeps the rates low as hell. I'm betting now that I said that you have the idea to put them up in L2 Store or buy with Hero coin update and remove Imps completely, because improvement to any extent in this game now costs an arm and a leg in real life.

 

P.S. Statement 3 is pure laziness as well. uncertain results? You won't even give us a rough average percentage like you provided with armor and weapon years ago that no longer fits out model. Try to compound 1000 stones, Divide number of success' by the total amount tried, BOOM average % success rate. Hell I'm even willing to do this for you if you provide me with the 1000 stones. I'll give you the most accurate, well documented study that you could hope for.

[Neesir]

Jewel compound rate seems to be 30%, so you need around 124 to make 1 lvl 5, seems accurate.

[Vassy]

8 hours ago, Degus said:

so are you saying  the compound rate is different depending on what you want?  this makes this even worse!  i made +5 cha bracelet, funny how i cant make a +2 str bracelet, if there are different odds for stats, your done.  please show us the results of the tests you ran, i dont believe you ran any at all or even have a clue what we are talking about.

I bet for luc is the smallest..

[Znipo]

Ever heard about being lucky/unlucky? 

Took me close to 150x Ruby boxes to get 1x lv. 3 ruby, this back when event was somewhat fresh and "success was higher".. 

Meanwhile my pearl diamond opal topaz got lv. 3 with 4-8 boxes each. 

My point? Even if 50% success you can fail 100 times in a row. 

Try harder.

[weinerthezon]

I got my dimensional bracelet stage 6 about a month ago and applied int to it. It went straight up to +4 int no fails. I am scared to try for +5 though, after hearing many other people struggle to get +2 stat. I also recently elevated my topaz and garnet from lvl 3 to lvl 4 with very little fails. So I think compounding is the same as it has always been. 

You have to remember enchanting/compounding/ect all success in lineage 2 isn't based on normal statistics of 5/10 times an armor will go +4. In normal life 30 attempts at going to +4 will yield between 11-19 items going +4. Anything outside this value is considered an outlier and is very lucky or very unlucky. However lineage 2 does not work this way, and I argue that it never has. Although the 5/10 ratio is accurate, in lineage 2 you are much more likely to fall outstand the standard deviation then anywhere else. Outliers are much more common. Most people attempting for +4 armor will see either 0-10 or 20-30 success/failures. This creates a 50% probability of going +4 but can cause intense anger or jubilation. Just my opinion, l2 NA will probably never change how it works, which sucks for players who only have a finite attempts to improve there toons.

[marw]

It's all korean random like always been.

Level 8 GC talisman on first try without hunters amulets.

[Znipo]

1 hour ago, weinerthezon said:

I got my dimensional bracelet stage 6 about a month ago and applied int to it. It went straight up to +4 int no fails. I am scared to try for +5 though, after hearing many other people struggle to get +2 stat. I also recently elevated my topaz and garnet from lvl 3 to lvl 4 with very little fails. So I think compounding is the same as it has always been. 

You have to remember enchanting/compounding/ect all success in lineage 2 isn't based on normal statistics of 5/10 times an armor will go +4. In normal life 30 attempts at going to +4 will yield between 11-19 items going +4. Anything outside this value is considered an outlier and is very lucky or very unlucky. However lineage 2 does not work this way, and I argue that it never has. Although the 5/10 ratio is accurate, in lineage 2 you are much more likely to fall outstand the standard deviation then anywhere else. Outliers are much more common. Most people attempting for +4 armor will see either 0-10 or 20-30 success/failures. This creates a 50% probability of going +4 but can cause intense anger or jubilation. Just my opinion, l2 NA will probably never change how it works, which sucks for players who only have a finite attempts to improve there toons.

 

 

65% chance to go +3 > +4, makes 35% chance to fail, on average you succeed 20 but that isnt guaranteed, just cause something is 50% chance doesn't mean if you do it twice you will yield both results.. 

All these conspiracy theories are insane lol. 

 

You have to take into account only people that get really unlucky will complain, people who get lucky wont show off in equal numbers of those who complain, and those that yield the normal results wont say anything at all. So if your conclusion is based on that, and not enchanting >1000 items personally it is kind of flawed

[Neesir]

I've Made longing talisman without failing any stage, made lvl 3 tanzanite with 8 Stones , lvl4 ruby and opal 1st try, failed lvl4 Diamond and emerald but haven't tried again since ,what i want to say is that you fail 100% of what you don't try, even if you fail, try harder, if this game was easy none of us would play it.

[Quitted]

For what i can say and what i see, and i'm talking about a dude who streamed every second on l2 new ru official server, it's just korean random.

It's like a baseball player who has a stat of 350 but he's striked out in 350 games. So that 350 means 0.

You all are forgetting one thing. After every attempt in enchanting or compounding the stats are resetted so that 30% 20% you put the numbers means 0.

What Neutron said is we know the stats but they mean just 0. You can get lucky (stats are respected with all the odds) or unlucky (that stats means 0).

That dude on the cheapest l2 official server spent almost 200.000 us $ just to get the gear many top dogs wear in here but the dragon weapon.

Accordingly to the l2 official prices in ru (based on what a normal dude earns x month as a salary + how much a normal house is worth) a normal house in eu

should be worth, accordingly to the one who puts the price in the l2 store, 450.000.000.000 € and i should earn 15.000.000 € x month (15 millions euro x month).

I though starco was mad, btw he owns a dragon bow stage 3 on ru for the ones who are interested, but some one in here is far away from the madness limit.

The only way to play in here is to have unlimited money on the wallet. And i don't have.

Going to play on l2 official ru. Farewell.

 

[weinerthezon]

57 minutes ago, Znipo said:

 

 

65% chance to go +3 > +4, makes 35% chance to fail, on average you succeed 20 but that isnt guaranteed, just cause something is 50% chance doesn't mean if you do it twice you will yield both results.. 

All these conspiracy theories are insane lol. 

 

You have to take into account only people that get really unlucky will complain, people who get lucky wont show off in equal numbers of those who complain, and those that yield the normal results wont say anything at all. So if your conclusion is based on that, and not enchanting >1000 items personally it is kind of flawed

I know its not 50% that was just to make the example easier to understand. And no you are completely wrong, the probability in this game is not normal probability. It is heavily skewed towards very lucky or very unlucky. Anyone who hasn't realized this is blind. 

[SleepingPower]

6 hours ago, Neesir said:

I've Made longing talisman without failing any stage, made lvl 3 tanzanite with 8 Stones , lvl4 ruby and opal 1st try, failed lvl4 Diamond and emerald but haven't tried again since ,what i want to say is that you fail 100% of what you don't try, even if you fail, try harder, if this game was easy none of us would play it.

For me you were lucky.

I tried to make longing many times and failed and in the end I bought one.

If you don't try you 100% don't loose money.

[Danda12]

can anyone explain to me why Ncsoft/Ncwest does not publish rates for enchanting/compounding?

What do they gain from keeping this a secret?

Are they afraid players will stop trying once they realise what the true rates  are?

 

Or is it so that they can keep lowering rates without player base directly getting mad over it?

OR a combination of both.

 

thanks in advance.

I just dont understand the reason for keeping it a secret. 

[Danda12]

9 hours ago, Znipo said:

 

 

65% chance to go +3 > +4, makes 35% chance to fail, on average you succeed 20 but that isnt guaranteed, just cause something is 50% chance doesn't mean if you do it twice you will yield both results.. 

All these conspiracy theories are insane lol. 

 

You have to take into account only people that get really unlucky will complain, people who get lucky wont show off in equal numbers of those who complain, and those that yield the normal results wont say anything at all. So if your conclusion is based on that, and not enchanting >1000 items personally it is kind of flawed

I am pretty certain the rate is not 65%.

I think that rate is true for S80 grade and lower.

 

CERTAINLY not for R grade and higher, im 100% positive its much lower, atleast half of 65%.

Ive broken so many items at +4.

[Rodah]

On 5/11/2018 at 6:05 PM, Degus said:

so are you saying  the compound rate is different depending on what you want?  this makes this even worse!  i made +5 cha bracelet, funny how i cant make a +2 str bracelet, if there are different odds for stats, your done.  please show us the results of the tests you ran, i dont believe you ran any at all or even have a clue what we are talking about.

I think what he is saying is that different "item groups" have different compound rates.  So Venirs are 95%+, lv1 Jewels are 50%~, etc.  

It sounds like you are staying true to form and just exceptionally unlucky    I remember your luck with cloaks awhile back....

Either way, sorry man, it sucks and I think you/we deserve more transparency from the GMs/Devs.

[Yidao]

10 hours ago, Danda12 said:

Can anyone explain to me why NCsoft/NCWest does not publish rates for enchanting/compounding?

Because there are no rates to be published. What there is is an algorithm which adjusts luck over time. This is not player-specific - Neutron has shown in an elaborate test some time ago that it's the same on the 1st and the 100th try, provided you do the tries fast enough - but server-wide. Simply put, if you insist on compounding your own Jewels, do it during the first hour of the event. If you have to work when the servers get restarted and can only log in five hours later, you might still get a bit lucky. But on the next day you can forget compounding - better buy your Jewels ready-made from players who made them right at the beginning

[Helv]

21 minutes ago, Yidao said:

Because there are no rates to be published. What there is is an algorithm which adjusts luck over time. This is not player-specific - Neutron has shown in an elaborate test some time ago that it's the same on the 1st and the 100th try, provided you do the tries fast enough - but server-wide. Simply put, if you insist on compounding your own Jewels, do it during the first hour of the event. If you have to work when the servers get restarted and can only log in five hours later, you might still get a bit lucky. But on the next day you can forget compounding - better buy your Jewels ready-made from players who made them right at the beginning

Not that I can afford trying, but I'm always curious about such stuff. How do you think, Yidao, over what period of time the algorithm adjusts? For example, when the promo starts and you can only get random boxes it is very hard to get a lot of specific jewel types, so you need time to collect them. However, you might have been collecting boxes since the previous promo and have the exact amount to attempt combining when the new one starts.

Does the 'luck' algorithm start anew with every jewel promo, or does it count all previous jewel combining attempts as well?

Is it clever to try in between promos when no one else tries?

[Yidao]

I don't have the adena for testing such things myself either, but from what I have observed while being constantly around since 2007 (I never quit), and having played events myself back when there were still dropped event items, I would guess that the luck adjustment goes by day, with being fairly good on the first day, moderately good on the second day, and then deteriorating fast, to stay very low for the rest of the event. There might be some small intermediate peaks for an hour or two after the server restart on the second and third week of the event. And yes, multiple people say from practical experience that luck is best (or rather at it's mediocre base   ) when there is no gambling-related promotion on.

But keep in mind, there is still the aspect that luck in Lineage 2 comes in streaks, much more so than in real life, what weinerthezon called "outliers" in his post above. So if you are on a good streak, you might achieve a lvl 5 Jewel even during the second week of the event, and if you are on a bad streak you might fail 20 compounding attempts in a row even during the first half hour after the servers come back up again on Wednesday. You can sort of get a grip on this phenomenon by crafting Shots and observing how often the clover animation appears over your head in a row resp. not in a row. Of course you might have used up your luck just in the moment when you decide to switch from Shots to Jewels and then still fail 20 times in a row

tl;dr
Gambling - don't do it!