Economy in CHAOS!!!!

[AguaMineral]

good afternoon NCsoft team @Juji and @Hime

 

I and I believe that a large part of our Classic server is very uncomfortable with the new mechanisms and market operation. I have a party mage, I have a daily cost of 15kk, and I guarantee that it cannot be reduced, it is at the limit. I went changing my farm locations until I ended up in a catacomb, where I have the best drop of Adena and items and, the best comes now, I only have 10kk of drops per day. we need self-sufficient partys, it is horrible to have to keep creating low lvl chars to farm adena and then delete, I believe that this is not the essence of L2, we await answers and solutions.

The return of spirit shots and the sale of materials in stores would be very welcome and would probably solve our problems.

thanks.

Edited February 7, 2020 by AguaMineral

[Aqxenat]

Since they removed Spiritshot from stores, it was practically impossible to keep a wizard having to spend 15k with Blessed Spiritshot, and you don’t even get 10k back, my character is a Domintor lv 78 and today I don’t even get to Forgotten Island, where I farm Adena, so it’s hard to keep my character logged in without getting a drop of Adena.

[mixa]

Use the L2store, that's why it's there. You're not supposed to get your adena back when you farm. This is how the game is developing now, you're either in or you're out.

[Buldos]

7 hours ago, mixa said:

Use the L2store, that's why it's there. You're not supposed to get your adena back when you farm. This is how the game is developing now, you're either in or you're out.

L2Store do not solve balance at ingame economy. Amount of adena daily removed from server via NPC stores/services much highter then amount of adena generated by killing mobs legal players. First results you can see if visit Giran market. Buy shops for resources is very rare, all prices already much lower then befor and keep going down.

Example - Mage pt in catacombs daily using 130k+ spirit shots and 17k+ spirit ore with current 30% castle tax it's 130.000*105+17000*560=23.170.000 adena burned at NPC store daily, with valuable drops (price at NPC store diff from 0) same party generates 11-12m adena. As result 1 party like this permanently removing from server 11-12m adena. So at current state ingame economy became much more addicted from illegal adena farmers who running all those botted ponies. Mb all those changes made with a few last updates (removing shots crafting/reducing prices for gear/making crafting resources costs 0 adena) working well for other regions but with our cutted drops it's dosn't work properly. Example on Skelth mobs from Witch catacombs drops 1981-4626 adena or 3,3k average and same mobs at our region drops 600-2200 adena or 1,4k average and this is different is huge in resulting effect.

At another regions those changes reasonable and help to avoid inflation but for our region it's deadly strike for ingame economy.

[mixa]

Go and sell ncoin/promo items and you'll be more than fine.

[Ingwaz]

2 hours ago, mixa said:

Go and sell ncoin/promo items and you'll be more than fine.

This doesnt solve anything and with just a little bit of thought u will realize it.

The economy is broken. YES u can pay in store and sell those items. BUT, where do u think that adena comes from?
Since the adena drop zones in game are monopolized by bot farmers exclusively, they are the ones who provide adena to the rest of the server.

I have no problem purchasing store items to sell for adena. But if the whole server does this, u do agree that its not viable? Theres literally not enough adena for all players to do this.

NCWest needs to do something about this. People are quitting constantly for a variety of reasons, but the adena situation is the main issue that stops new players from continuin the game and reaching high levels.
 

If players could cover their SS costs, they would stay in game, level up, invest more time and money in the store.

The current model is not realistic and its just a Ponzi Scheme...

 

[Buldos]

3 hours ago, mixa said:

Go and sell ncoin/promo items and you'll be more than fine.

Did you read my previous post? Seem like no or did it without thinking about.

[mixa]

1 hour ago, Buldos said:

Did you read my previous post? Seem like no or did it without thinking about.

Sure, that reply was directed to your post, I should have quoted you there. For more details, check the reply below.

1 hour ago, Ingwaz said:

This doesnt solve anything and with just a little bit of thought u will realize it.

The economy is broken. YES u can pay in store and sell those items. BUT, where do u think that adena comes from?
Since the adena drop zones in game are monopolized by bot farmers exclusively, they are the ones who provide adena to the rest of the server.

I have no problem purchasing store items to sell for adena. But if the whole server does this, u do agree that its not viable? Theres literally not enough adena for all players to do this.

NCWest needs to do something about this. People are quitting constantly for a variety of reasons, but the adena situation is the main issue that stops new players from continuin the game and reaching high levels.
 

If players could cover their SS costs, they would stay in game, level up, invest more time and money in the store.

The current model is not realistic and its just a Ponzi Scheme...

 

That's the same place the adena was/is coming from. The players barely make any dent in the overall picture. Nothing has changed, you gotta realize that.

[Epifan]

@Juji can we get a fix in adena drop ,location like varka/ketra/lair of antharas,the drop of adena/drop.

[Kendrick]

As if it was not enough for a party not to be self-sufficient when farming adena and buying soul shots, GMs are now banning accounts (which are not using any external program or BOT, only auto-hunting) that will farm adena to buy SS in Ruins of Agony, I don't know who did this brilliant job @Jujiand @Hime but please review your attitudes or whoever did it.

Server Giran

[Ingwaz]

22 hours ago, mixa said:

That's the same place the adena was/is coming from. The players barely make any dent in the overall picture. Nothing has changed, you gotta realize that.

Hey. 
What do u mean thats same place adena was/is coming from ? Ruins of Agony and other low lvl zones? I didnt understand what u mean by saying it was always like this and nothing has changed.
Players use to be able to cover their ss costs from most hunting zones. I have been away from the game for few years so maybe im stuck bit more in the past, but it wasnt like this back then.

Can u tell me if u agree/disagree with the following 2 points? 
1) Adena situation right now is causing a lot of new players (and old) to quit the server
2) If every live player in the server buys items through l2 store to sell for adena, do u believe theres enough adena for all? Or its just a Ponzi scheme structure?
 

[Kendrick]

12 minutes ago, Ingwaz said:

Hey. 
What do u mean thats same place adena was/is coming from ? Ruins of Agony and other low lvl zones? I didnt understand what u mean by saying it was always like this and nothing has changed.
Players use to be able to cover their ss costs from most hunting zones. I have been away from the game for few years so maybe im stuck bit more in the past, but it wasnt like this back then.

Can u tell me if u agree/disagree with the following 2 points? 
1) Adena situation right now is causing a lot of new players (and old) to quit the server
2) If every live player in the server buys items through l2 store to sell for adena, do u believe theres enough adena for all? Or its just a Ponzi scheme structure?
 

 

it is a basic market principle, we should have enough adena to bear the costs without having to move low lvl chars to adena farm places.

Players start to get discouraged and consequently stop playing or log in less often.

 

We need a quick fix!

[mixa]

1 hour ago, Ingwaz said:

Hey. 
What do u mean thats same place adena was/is coming from ? Ruins of Agony and other low lvl zones? I didnt understand what u mean by saying it was always like this and nothing has changed.
Players use to be able to cover their ss costs from most hunting zones. I have been away from the game for few years so maybe im stuck bit more in the past, but it wasnt like this back then.

Can u tell me if u agree/disagree with the following 2 points? 
1) Adena situation right now is causing a lot of new players (and old) to quit the server
2) If every live player in the server buys items through l2 store to sell for adena, do u believe theres enough adena for all? Or its just a Ponzi scheme structure?
 

What I'm saying is that for the last 13+ years the major part of the adena in the players pockets came from the bots. Even more so since l2 became free 2 play.

Let me answer to your questions as far as I'm able to.

1.I would say it does, but they're are many heavily invested, that are not quitting anytime soon.

2. Probably not, but I don't imagine everyone doing that, many players find alternative ways, including rmt.I don't say is that's right, but you'd be surprised how many do that.

[Ingwaz]

3 minutes ago, mixa said:

What I'm saying is that for the last 13+ years the major part of the adena in the players pockets came from the bots. Even more so since l2 became free 2 play.

 

I see. But as far as i know this is the first time that ppl need to buy from bots to sustain ss usage. It has reached an extreme lvl.
If it was only people buyin from bots to buy gear and luxury equipment it wouldnt be that bad.

But to cover ss usage its too much... All i want NCsoft to do is to make it so the ss cost is covered from regular farming... And im sure they would make more money like this as more players would invest in their store too.

[Tool_of_Society]

11 hours ago, Ingwaz said:

I see. But as far as i know this is the first time that ppl need to buy from bots to sustain ss usage. It has reached an extreme lvl.
If it was only people buyin from bots to buy gear and luxury equipment it wouldnt be that bad.

But to cover ss usage its too much... All i want NCsoft to do is to make it so the ss cost is covered from regular farming... And im sure they would make more money like this as more players would invest in their store too.

Well clearly ncsoft wants players to make even less adena than ever. They tried when classic first started by giving us a fractional rate of adena per drop AND a fractional drop rate compared to other classic servers. The rebellion lead to that being mostly "fixed" but not fully. In the latest "update" we saw NcSofts newest approach to nerfing adena income. Meanwhile gold sellers are spamming the same prices to me every day as I can't easily block them anymore thanks to the latest "update". So either those are scammers or their supply of adena hasn't been noticeably affected at all...

It's really annoying that I have to run a lower level 9 man party with no shots so I can afford to use some shots in my 9 man 8x party. At the current rate I'm probably never going to have any A grade items as the cost is just too outrageous for me. Which is super fun considering how hard the monsters are at that level.....

Edited February 11, 2020 by Tool_of_Society

[Kendrick]

8 hours ago, Tool_of_Society said:

Well clearly ncsoft wants players to make even less adena than ever. They tried when classic first started by giving us a fractional rate of adena per drop AND a fractional drop rate compared to other classic servers. The rebellion lead to that being mostly "fixed" but not fully. In the latest "update" we saw NcSofts newest approach to nerfing adena income. Meanwhile gold sellers are spamming the same prices to me every day as I can't easily block them anymore thanks to the latest "update". So either those are scammers or their supply of adena hasn't been noticeably affected at all...

It's really annoying that I have to run a lower level 9 man party with no shots so I can afford to use some shots in my 9 man 8x party. At the current rate I'm probably never going to have any A grade items as the cost is just too outrageous for me. Which is super fun considering how hard the monsters are at that level.....

From now on you can no longer use auto-hunting to farm your adenas in low lvl chars, and then you can go back to farming in high lvl chars.

I was banned permanently by NCsoft for using 9 accounts in ROA making adena, they say I used bot, but wait, who here would use bots in an account with lvl 80+ chars? who here would use the same accounts that are VIP 5 and VIP 6 to farm adena with bot with the possibility of being banned? Obviously nobody would do that, just as I would never do either. I was just farming my adenas in ROA to buy supplies for my party lvl 80+ and I was banned.

Congratulations to those involved in banning a player who has been playing since 2009 when the server was still being paid, who buys Ncoins periodically.

 

@Juji and @Hime

Ticket of Ban (23487465)

[joheyca]

Why? what's different? i'm being poor as allways in this game 

[ThEXxZeroxX_ITA]

wrong.

Edited February 12, 2020 by ThEXxZeroxX_ITA

[Tool_of_Society]

On 2/11/2020 at 8:12 AM, Kendrick said:

From now on you can no longer use auto-hunting to farm your adenas in low lvl chars, and then you can go back to farming in high lvl chars.

I was banned permanently by NCsoft for using 9 accounts in ROA making adena, they say I used bot, but wait, who here would use bots in an account with lvl 80+ chars? who here would use the same accounts that are VIP 5 and VIP 6 to farm adena with bot with the possibility of being banned? Obviously nobody would do that, just as I would never do either. I was just farming my adenas in ROA to buy supplies for my party lvl 80+ and I was banned.

Congratulations to those involved in banning a player who has been playing since 2009 when the server was still being paid, who buys Ncoins periodically.

 

@Juji and @Hime

Ticket of Ban (23487465)

Interesting. I recently made an alt group on my main accounts because I needed some more clan reputation to get the +15% clan xp passive (I have a clan for myself now that everyone quit). I rolled through ROA the other day and experienced no problems. This is my oldest original account and it was part of that group and I'm not banned. I found a spot near the entrance so I didn't get a chance to check out the bot situation. Last time I was there at least one of the botters were using C grade weapons that were raid drops...

Too bad blood crystals are silly hard to get or I would of just gotten some regular clan skills instead..

Edited February 12, 2020 by Tool_of_Society

[Tool_of_Society]

I've been running a 9 man alt group 24/7 for a long time now because my mains cannot afford shots let alone gear upgrades. The alt accounts had a mix of VIP 1-3.

[Casemonstro]

I'm quite sure that the game economy was undoubtedly a bit lunatic.

You can't sell basic materials,

After a certain level it becomes evident that you will not survive /up if you cannot invest adenas in potions or SS.

These adenas will come from where, a drop of 1 or 2 hours in most places does not pay GK one way.

Then pay SS and Pocoes, alas with the miracle of dropping an entire item. (peculiarly I play, I had little luck)

The monopoly of some dungeons has not passed through the bot detector, that is, it is still almost impossible to find a Dungeon without Bot.

The question remains, what happened to the Adenas, how do you keep a character?

I hear many talk about making char low lvl for farm, sorry I want to play with 2 char no 20. And today I realize that these 2 are not paid, minimum costs like SS and wells.

Not to mention quests that in the end do not pay GK cost (high lvl)

If there is a movement to encourage the sale of adenas, look they are doing it perfectly.

[AguaMineral]

On 12/02/2020 at 2:18 PM, Tool_of_Society said:

I've been running a 9 man alt group 24/7 for a long time now because my mains cannot afford shots let alone gear upgrades. The alt accounts had a mix of VIP 1-3.

 

this is a problem for everyone, just walk over the elemental areas that will see old spots that were overcrowded, now empty. It is necessary to have a review of the drops and especially the drop of adenas ... time passes and players get exhausted and leave the server.

[AguaMineral]

On 13/02/2020 at 11:11 AM, Casemonstro said:

I'm quite sure that the game economy was undoubtedly a bit lunatic.

You can't sell basic materials,

After a certain level it becomes evident that you will not survive /up if you cannot invest adenas in potions or SS.

These adenas will come from where, a drop of 1 or 2 hours in most places does not pay GK one way.

Then pay SS and Pocoes, alas with the miracle of dropping an entire item. (peculiarly I play, I had little luck)

The monopoly of some dungeons has not passed through the bot detector, that is, it is still almost impossible to find a Dungeon without Bot.

The question remains, what happened to the Adenas, how do you keep a character?

I hear many talk about making char low lvl for farm, sorry I want to play with 2 char no 20. And today I realize that these 2 are not paid, minimum costs like SS and wells.

Not to mention quests that in the end do not pay GK cost (high lvl)

If there is a movement to encourage the sale of adenas, look they are doing it perfectly.

when players are unable to pay their costs, they seek alternatives. Unfortunately today the only alternative is to make low lvl chars or buy adena from sellers. Obviously this is not the essence of L2, players even manage to farm their adena in low lvl locations, return to level up their high lvl party but in sequence they have to stop the high lvl partys again and start farming low lvl again. One time people get tired and don't want to log in anymore ....

[Buldos]

Dear Milky Cows!

Keep supporting current economy wipe by spending more real money on stuff you will can't sell to other players for turn into adena.

[Casemonstro]

the game is changing, no doubt people are profiting from this game economy.
 It's becoming Paytowin, but the question is is NCSOFT gaining anything from this trade?

Who is winning from this?