PVP Changes

[MrE]

Pvp isn't hasn't been fun in a long time... its no longer pvp.. its ganking. 500k to 1.5 million hp shots are too common and the game is skewed to the top 5% of the server that spends 100k on gear. I propose the following changes:

1. Cap PVP Damage at 20k per hit 

2. Allow debuffs to increase that cap. (Meaning you do 20k damage, with assault crash and chaos symphony debuff on an enemy you would then be able to do 36000 damage per hit) This would also mean, if you stack someone with debuffs, your 500k one shot hit still exists. 

This does multiple things, it allows support classes to actually be useful.. their debuffs will be a huge part of PVP as well as heals meaning something. Smaller "hits / attacks" from lower level toons will also be much more impact-full making the PVP MUCH MUCH more realistic. One archer should NEVER kill an entire party with one AOE.. it's stupid. This would allow a group of lower geared players to kill one of those 100k geared players through sheer numbers.    

Pvp should be much more tactical, it would allow the use of skills like traps, going into and out of hide, NEEDING support to do massive damage and increase the "fun" factor for everyone. I lower level character that does 1k per hit to a higher geared toon when they skill out with BR and Brooch and whatever else, would actually be contributing, going to kill them? No? Help.. yes.  

And for those top geared people who are going to QQ... think of this. How fast can you go through skills? 10 skills.. anyone is dead.. that not a "long" fight, you'll still be op.. others will just have a chance. 

[LordDragnil]

One pvp resist for heal, second for iss, third for tank.

But it could be funniest thing if some summoner will give this buff. 

[MrE]

And PS.... bring in the PK system from Classic. 

[MrE]

Right? the skill where you decrease healing... actually being useful? WEIRD!! 

 

[ViolAzn]

Definite changes are needed.  The last few updates have made supports nearly irrelevant.  Why invest in gear, levels, skills when they're only good for CS, UD, and BR or song of archery?  Tactics and strategy have become moot point, and fights only last as long as the a skill rotation.   

[CaptainSmiles]

100% Support this idea.

It's kinda sad when a tank 105 with 60k+ p. def and 40k+ m. def can get one shot by an archer or nuker. Even trying to reflect does nothing as it doesn't reflect 100% of the damage anymore.

#MakePVPGreatAgain

[iAndouille]

i find this post very interesting because it's actually the only reason why i Stopped gearing up for "PVP" purposes

Back in the days u had to prove You'r gameplay/skills to win in pvp's 

Nowadays you only buy more gear than ur enemy and win

The "Endgame" pvp is all  1 shot wonder even with full Gear, just because archers has insane amount of damage multiplier and there is almost nonexistant stuff/skill to protect from that insane damage.

You know the pvp is dead when you get hit for 1 milion dmg, when the HP is capped to 150k  

If they ever fix the pvp in L2 we'll find way more pvp around and we'll find out real skills and gameplay,

Nice Post! thank you

[BrokenKnuckles]

Maybe that is the fix needed, DPS can be 1.5M when players have 10M hp, Either way something needs to change to offset the absurd amount of damage by DDs. But a + for somebody who is trying to find a solution rather than only complaining DPS is to high

[Nymphadorae]

1 hour ago, MrE said:

1. Cap PVP Damage at 20k per hit 

And make it cost 1 NCoin per hit 

[magistralis]

Now the PvP is based in how many items you have to protect you (by put you invencible, untargeted, damage barrier...), and when you run out of activations, you are one-shotted. Everybody is a glass cannon now.
It's funny to see how a game fully based in PvP don't have a good PvP. 
I already can see in the future Dragon Armors coming to the game.

Edited May 12, 2020 by magistralis

[ShadowSerenade]

PVP is the hallmark of this game. But it is also the worst thing about this game. In the real world even a 5 year old with a rock and decent aim can hurt the President of the United States, the most powerful man in the world. But in L2 you have to be pretty close to top dogs in equipment and levels to tickle them, let alone be considered an actual threat. If you want PVP to improve, and if you want more and more people to want to PVP, you have to change the mechanics. 

 

 

[Harperz]

Quote

1. Cap PVP Damage at 20k per hit 

don't you think that will benefit characters or classes with much hp? some classes are glass cannons so they need high damage to have any use. tyrrs will benefit the most in this update with over 200k HP and they hit you for 20k easy...

[mixa]

Any kind of this change can only work if the l2store is completely removed and the items acquired from it. This won't happen though and so such changes are not viable.

Edited May 13, 2020 by mixa

[GhostintheShell]

many quit due to the one shot wonder on +10 dark armor sets on a tank lol.  4 years in the making since the lady executive from ncsoft implemented the "brooch" event and rest is history.  i believe that's right around the time when Life from RR quit after blowing up his +14 dark bow (back in 2015!), he never knew about the hidden 2 token rule, on top of the P2W, he along with many others quit.

like Andouille, I stayed out of the PvP not much so for the imbalance in gear but for the prevalent PvP cheating software that can auto target your healer even if you have 6 toons stacked on top of each other than no human on earth can read the names on the stacked auto-follow mode - let alone know which of the 6 stacked toons (that look like 1 toon) know which one is a "healer".  But that pvp software is pretty intelligent, it'll kill that healer immediately.  How is PvP fun when you have incessant cheating and GM doesn't do anything about it?

[Free2play]

@MrE That is really great Idea. If this is implemented I am sure NCwest will have to open 4 new servers! 

@Juji Please Consider this option! It balances the game and will create Huge profit for your company! 

[ZHUU]

make it 10k damage max ____

i like this idea _____

great topic____

and of pissble make those activations skills that gives   ud_untargetable_barier_reuse time to 1 hour tt

if this happens …….wishcometrue...

 

[LordDragnil]

On 5/13/2020 at 8:45 AM, zhumie said:

make it 10k damage max ____

i like this idea _____

great topic____

and of pissble make those activations skills that gives   ud_untargetable_barier_reuse time to 1 hour tt

if this happens …….wishcometrue...

 

And 5k dmg as minimum ???

[KKKm]

22 hours ago, MrE said:

Pvp isn't hasn't been fun in a long time... its no longer pvp.. its ganking. 500k to 1.5 million hp shots are too common and the game is skewed to the top 5% of the server that spends 100k on gear. I propose the following changes:

1. Cap PVP Damage at 20k per hit 

2. Allow debuffs to increase that cap. (Meaning you do 20k damage, with assault crash and chaos symphony debuff on an enemy you would then be able to do 36000 damage per hit) This would also mean, if you stack someone with debuffs, your 500k one shot hit still exists. 

This does multiple things, it allows support classes to actually be useful.. their debuffs will be a huge part of PVP as well as heals meaning something. Smaller "hits / attacks" from lower level toons will also be much more impact-full making the PVP MUCH MUCH more realistic. One archer should NEVER kill an entire party with one AOE.. it's stupid. This would allow a group of lower geared players to kill one of those 100k geared players through sheer numbers.    

Pvp should be much more tactical, it would allow the use of skills like traps, going into and out of hide, NEEDING support to do massive damage and increase the "fun" factor for everyone. I lower level character that does 1k per hit to a higher geared toon when they skill out with BR and Brooch and whatever else, would actually be contributing, going to kill them? No? Help.. yes.  

And for those top geared people who are going to QQ... think of this. How fast can you go through skills? 10 skills.. anyone is dead.. that not a "long" fight, you'll still be op.. others will just have a chance. 

You must very cleaver Now tell me how you kill feoh like pepinio who need 10 mill dmg  to die?

[MrE]

 

On 5/13/2020 at 4:19 AM, Harperz said:

don't you think that will benefit characters or classes with much hp? some classes are glass cannons so they need high damage to have any use. tyrrs will benefit the most in this update with over 200k HP and they hit you for 20k easy...

 

Yes.. it would... that is the exact point of having a class like a tank.. it is a TANK.. it is supposed to be hard to kill. This also enables with one on one battles to outlast full skill pops. Archers and mages still have a huge advantage as they are more mobile and faster.. so yes.. god forbid if it would require them to use tactics instead of just pew pew. 

Right now during swords.. Archers stand.. they don't move and just auto attack aoe and kill everything. its a joke... something needs to be done.   

Healers would be impossible to kill with this system however.. .which is why they need to 100% bring back mana burn. 

 

In regards to Nukers having a bazillion hp with mana shield.. what are they going to do without mana? nothing.. 

[Harperz]

13 hours ago, MrE said:

 

 

Yes.. it would... that is the exact point of having a class like a tank.. it is a TANK.. it is supposed to be hard to kill. This also enables with one on one battles to outlast full skill pops. Archers and mages still have a huge advantage as they are more mobile and faster.. so yes.. god forbid if it would require them to use tactics instead of just pew pew. 

Right now during swords.. Archers stand.. they don't move and just auto attack aoe and kill everything. its a joke... something needs to be done.   

Healers would be impossible to kill with this system however.. .which is why they need to 100% bring back mana burn. 

 

In regards to Nukers having a bazillion hp with mana shield.. what are they going to do without mana? nothing.. 

you don't get my point. there needs to be a relation between hp and max damage or it wont work

[Murkan]

On 12/05/2020 at 3:07 PM, MrE said:

Pvp isn't hasn't been fun in a long time... its no longer pvp.. its ganking. 500k to 1.5 million hp shots are too common and the game is skewed to the top 5% of the server that spends 100k on gear. I propose the following changes:

1. Cap PVP Damage at 20k per hit 

2. Allow debuffs to increase that cap. (Meaning you do 20k damage, with assault crash and chaos symphony debuff on an enemy you would then be able to do 36000 damage per hit) This would also mean, if you stack someone with debuffs, your 500k one shot hit still exists. 

This does multiple things, it allows support classes to actually be useful.. their debuffs will be a huge part of PVP as well as heals meaning something. Smaller "hits / attacks" from lower level toons will also be much more impact-full making the PVP MUCH MUCH more realistic. One archer should NEVER kill an entire party with one AOE.. it's stupid. This would allow a group of lower geared players to kill one of those 100k geared players through sheer numbers.    

Pvp should be much more tactical, it would allow the use of skills like traps, going into and out of hide, NEEDING support to do massive damage and increase the "fun" factor for everyone. I lower level character that does 1k per hit to a higher geared toon when they skill out with BR and Brooch and whatever else, would actually be contributing, going to kill them? No? Help.. yes.  

And for those top geared people who are going to QQ... think of this. How fast can you go through skills? 10 skills.. anyone is dead.. that not a "long" fight, you'll still be op.. others will just have a chance. 

Good afternoon (using translator)

I agree with you in some parts, the problem is also the imbalance of the classes, because players whoever they are, want to play with a class that encourages them to play, see that when NCsoft decides to privilege a class, a good part of the players start to join this class and to spend with this class. I am not against creating items and selling in the store, what I am against is the imbalance that these items promote, a player who plays Iss, Sigel and Healer, even though extremely equipped and buying all the items sold in the store and evolving them to the maximum, they will never actually enjoy these items sold in the store because a DD with the same item will always, always have advantages, because they have in their passive skills bonuses that always magnify the damage absurdly, as is the archer, as is Feoh, as is the Evicerator, since the other Tyrr near the Evicerator are nothing in high damage. Another mistake by Ncsoft was to increase absurdly the resistance and class defense that give high damage, see in this update the Evicerator is taking much more damage than before, resisting debuff much more than before. Feoh with the mana shield became a god in the game precisely for absorbing damage and allies to the items they sell, they take advantage, archers too. See for example in the PVE places, you will see Sigel, you will see sigel, but they are only there to use his ability to provoke mobs with the skill provoke aura, so he gathers everyone together and so the Feoh and Archers make the party. But if you look further, you will see Feoh, Archer enduring a PVE without Sigel without any problem, and only use Healer because NCsoft decreases the mana healing when killing a mob. In short, what spoils the PVE is the class imbalance, the absurd damage advantages that NCsoft has been adding to DDs, creating items to further increase this damage. The number of items that benefit DDs, such as items that are immune from damage, or items that absorb damage. Sigel's debuff was weakened in a pvp fight, I know that because I play Olympics, and even fighting with less equipped players I see that my debuffs even being + 10% chance fail absurdly. Defense-enhancing items could benefit Iss, Healer and Sigel, but in the end they do benefit DDs. Since they only need to stay alive longer to kill and with such items and etc., they get this time...

[MrE]

On 5/16/2020 at 2:17 AM, Harperz said:

you don't get my point. there needs to be a relation between hp and max damage or it wont work

What relationship are you talking about? Remember in this model, debuffs stack and increase max damage. Not trying to discount what you're saying.. as I would LOVE to come up with something most players like. Just trying to understand what you're getting at.  

[MrE]

25 minutes ago, Murkan said:

Good afternoon (using translator)

I agree with you in some parts, the problem is also the imbalance of the classes, because players whoever they are, want to play with a class that encourages them to play, see that when NCsoft decides to privilege a class, a good part of the players start to join this class and to spend with this class. I am not against creating items and selling in the store, what I am against is the imbalance that these items promote, a player who plays Iss, Sigel and Healer, even though extremely equipped and buying all the items sold in the store and evolving them to the maximum, they will never actually enjoy these items sold in the store because a DD with the same item will always, always have advantages, because they have in their passive skills bonuses that always magnify the damage absurdly, as is the archer, as is Feoh, as is the Evicerator, since the other Tyrr near the Evicerator are nothing in high damage. Another mistake by Ncsoft was to increase absurdly the resistance and class defense that give high damage, see in this update the Evicerator is taking much more damage than before, resisting debuff much more than before. Feoh with the mana shield became a god in the game precisely for absorbing damage and allies to the items they sell, they take advantage, archers too. See for example in the PVE places, you will see Sigel, you will see sigel, but they are only there to use his ability to provoke mobs with the skill provoke aura, so he gathers everyone together and so the Feoh and Archers make the party. But if you look further, you will see Feoh, Archer enduring a PVE without Sigel without any problem, and only use Healer because NCsoft decreases the mana healing when killing a mob. In short, what spoils the PVE is the class imbalance, the absurd damage advantages that NCsoft has been adding to DDs, creating items to further increase this damage. The number of items that benefit DDs, such as items that are immune from damage, or items that absorb damage. Sigel's debuff was weakened in a pvp fight, I know that because I play Olympics, and even fighting with less equipped players I see that my debuffs even being + 10% chance fail absurdly. Defense-enhancing items could benefit Iss, Healer and Sigel, but in the end they do benefit DDs. Since they only need to stay alive longer to kill and with such items and etc., they get this time...

I 100% agree with you, that's why I was trying to come up with something that would level the playing feild a bit. Should an ISS hit as hard as a Nuker? No... should an ISS be one shot all the time.. HELL NO.

With this idea.. it caps the max damage, however, it also promotes support (more debuffs on target = DD hit harder) and heals. This makes the support classes relevant again. While still allowing all those DD's that spent 10k on their toons, to still do obscene damage, they just need debuffs on a target to do it. This also makes the (not being able to be debuffed skills) ultra important, as well as purge and the like.. further making support.. important and relevant again. 

NC soft has destroyed everything in this game except damage in favor of selling items that we all buy to keep up. I think its time to take our game back..and use our voices to have them make some changes. First and foremost.. lets try and make our game fun again, instead of some rat race s&*t show where its ONLY about who spent the most money.

[Rodah]

OP suggestions will not happen.  A more realistic idea would be to remove HP cap and implement some type of weapon specific defensive items/features.  For example; 4 new types of Mysterious Dyes which reduce either bow/crossbow, dagger, other melee, or magic damage by say 25% (or close to that).  30 day and only one can be used at a time. Ofcourse it will be an NCoin item but that's probably the only type of "solution" we can hope to get. 

[MrE]

ok, lets say they remove HP cap, whats max hp? 200k? 300k? 

Ok lets add in say.. max decrease in damage from bows... 80%

I have a pdef as an SWS of around 75k, I have song of protection 80k, Song of archery, - 50% damage and more defensive - crit and crit damage you can shake a stick at.. My record.. for damage is over 2 million. 

 

So lets say I have 350k Hp and 100k Cp. I have 80% damage reduction against archer.  The way NC soft does damage reduction isnt a true 100% damage reduction, if it were .. and you have 100% damage reduction.. it would be at 0. From what I can tell.. 100% damage reduction = 50% if you take 100% less damage it equates to half of what it originally was. 

 

So with that in mind (and if someone has more correct stats please tell me) lets just ASSUME 80% damage is really 80% less damage. If An archer crits for 2mil. an 80% reduction will be 1.6 mil. I'm still taking 400k in damage. WITH Song of archery up. that leaves me 50k.. I survived.. until their second skill shot that will drop me..  any time that song isn't up.. dead.. every time. 

Not to mention, what about the smaller clans? The people who dont have 10k to spend on new gear? the playing field needs to be brought back down to earth. Your suggestion enables NC soft to create 100 more items at a 2% chance to obtain through gambling.. err I mean loot boxes like this current event. Which I am honestly sick to death of.