Out Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 Since we will have some changes in the PK system in June, i would like to suggest also some changes in War system. The current War system, its also beneficial for the so called "top pvp" clans, and it should be changed along with the PK system. L2 was always a hardcore pvp game, but the current War system, doesn't let "weaker" players to pvp back. For example. Some players from PvE clans are getting bullied , or getting pked daily, by stronger players in order to take their spot. If the affected players, wants to pvp back for the spot, they received a war declaration, and can't fight back for the spot, because doesn't want to trigger the war for their clan. Top clans using that war declaration method, not because they want pvp, but because they DON'T want pvp , they want to farm in peace by kicking others from spots without respecting others. That happens in daily basis. My suggestion is to remove the 5 - kills - trigger war. If a clan want to have a full war, it can be done by accepting the war back. But with the current War system, you take away the opportunity for most players, to fight back for their spot. And there are lots of strong players, not in PVP clans, that can fight back, without putting their clan into an unecessary war, since the "fight for spot" is an isolated incident. If you remove the 5 - kills - trigger war, there wil be more pvp for everyone and more fun in every hunting spot. Thank you 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mephisto Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 Useless post... Because that same thing happends to me in reverse, I use the war declaration not to steal spot but to keep it For example: I have a spot and a guy pks me hoping im afk and dont notice and takes my spot, I ress myself and pk him back, if he tries or does it again I send war declaration, and because i dont mind to open war I use that tactic, however probably the guy who pked me isn´t the clan leader or is in a pve clan, probabilities are that he won´t mess with me again, if he continues for example pking me with another character or leaving clan I hunt his clan members and open war with some afk I find and start hunting them, that way the clan leader probably will mail me asking what happened, and most of the times he says that wont happend again. On the contrary i think the game should be even more clan war friendly, too many pve ppl for my taste... And let me tell you, This has happened to me a LOT of times. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDigY Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 3 minutes ago, lAeolos said: Useless post... Because that same thing happends to me in reverse, I use the war declaration not to steal spot but to keep it For example: I have a spot and a guy pks me hoping im afk and dont notice and takes my spot, I ress myself and pk him back, if he tries or does it again I send war declaration, and because i dont mind to open war I use that tactic, however probably the guy who pked me isn´t the clan leader or is in a pve clan, probabilities are that he won´t mess with me again, if he continues for example pking me with another character or leaving clan I hunt his clan members and open war with some afk I find and start hunting them, that way the clan leader probably will mail me asking what happened, and most of the times he says that wont happend again. On the contrary i think the game should be even more clan war friendly, too many pve ppl for my taste... And let me tell you, This has happened to me a LOT of times. You've just validated the original poster's concern about how this flawed war feature is being exploited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Out Posted May 24, 2020 Author Share Posted May 24, 2020 18 minutes ago, lAeolos said: Useless post... Because that same thing happends to me in reverse, I use the war declaration not to steal spot but to keep it For example: I have a spot and a guy pks me hoping im afk and dont notice and takes my spot, I ress myself and pk him back, if he tries or does it again I send war declaration, and because i dont mind to open war I use that tactic, however probably the guy who pked me isn´t the clan leader or is in a pve clan, probabilities are that he won´t mess with me again, if he continues for example pking me with another character or leaving clan I hunt his clan members and open war with some afk I find and start hunting them, that way the clan leader probably will mail me asking what happened, and most of the times he says that wont happend again. On the contrary i think the game should be even more clan war friendly, too many pve ppl for my taste... And let me tell you, This has happened to me a LOT of times. You just explained and validated, how the war system is exploited/used, with a wrong way. You do exactly what bullies doing. You don't want to fight for your spot, and you hunt all the clan, converting an isolated pvp, to a mass hunting. And i smile with your phrase "Too many pve ppl for my taste", while you do all this for peaceful pve. Thank you for validating with details how the war system working nowdays, your post is very useful. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mephisto Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 Nah, what I try to explain is that war system, pk system, pvp sytem or not, it depends on the people how to use it, like I was telling my clan mates a few days, lets say the game goes full pve no pvp, what is preventing me from go to a spot log full pt and take your spot that way, everything depends on people´s behaviour, if people want to take things from U in this case a spot, they will find the way, it´s up to you to forget about it and move on or fight for it... Some people will even pk u or take your spot cause they´re bored, and the means they use has nothing to do with clan wars, pvp, pve, or log a pt to make you leave. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mixa Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 The war system is indeed flawed. They could have done a lot of things to mitigate it, but nothing was done. The original GoD was system was great, you get was, when it ends you can't declare for a certain period. The best option for quite a while is to keep a clan under 15 players, thus having complete control over who can and who can't declare a war to you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricca Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 Currently I can give you a prime example of what you speak of. Last night during siege we went to different castles with the plan to take one if possible. So, the clans guarding those castle for there alt clans put wars up on us. Now since they have a castle guarding other castles means they aren't a part of that siege field, so any deaths count toward the 5 that start the war. Either we leave the siege field, or the 2 way war starts. That's one broken part of the war system. Another is, one of the castles that we went to have guys who seem to be upset that we actually came to there castle. So now they put a war up and the next day, today, they are out pk'ing clannies. If we kill them, which we can, up goes the war and they will then spend time searching for the AFK clannies. Since there is no penalty for pk's they fill emboldened. If wars could only start if its an "excepted" war then we could form a party and go kill those that are killing us without starting a war. And I don't mean all the afk players in there clan, just the ones that are being "special". So as "OUT" mentioned in his post, if you want more PvP fix the current war system, and if you want less Pk's, fix the current PK system. If Pk's cost you adena, in the form of gear as drops, lets see how many will be willing to pay/play. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BumFightSparkle Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 A completely necessary change due to the fight for a spot with such a large amount of DC, there is no problem finding a free one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnabas666 Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 On 23. 5. 2020 at 9:52 PM, Out said: Some players from PvE clans are getting bullied , or getting pked daily, by stronger players in order to take their spot. If the affected players, wants to pvp back for the spot, they received a war declaration, and can't fight back for the spot, because doesn't want to trigger the war for their clan. Top clans using that war declaration method, not because they want pvp, but because they DON'T want pvp , they want to farm in peace by kicking others from spots without respecting others. That happens in daily basis. Same "smart" system works in siege. You are defending your castle but your clan isnt interested in clan wars only in castle siege. PVP clan who isnt registred to attack your castle (because is registred to defend his own castle) declare war on you and come to your castle. If you kill them in siege zone than you start war. So you have two choices - let them to kill you over and over or defend your castle and start war which is unfortunately sometimes very hard to stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nymphadorae Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 57 minutes ago, Barnabas666 said: You are defending your castle but your clan isnt interested in clan wars only in castle siege. If you don't wanna PVP, then why do you want a castle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Out Posted May 25, 2020 Author Share Posted May 25, 2020 4 hours ago, Nymphadorae said: If you don't wanna PVP, then why do you want a castle? 4 hours pvp per month for a castle can be done by any clan , even pve clans. Why should these 4 hours have to be escorted by daily war, or PK or whatever? Thats one of the reasons, why ppl doesn't participate also in sieges. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anything Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 @Juji@Hime War system is being EXPLOITED to gain a UNFAIR ADVANTAGE over other players, this is not a normal gameplay mechanic anymore but another means to cheat. The bugs are outlined here: https://forums.lineage2.com/topic/18440-using-war-exploits-to-gain-a-unfair-advantage/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anything Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 12 hours ago, Out said: 4 hours pvp per month for a castle can be done by any clan , even pve clans. Why should these 4 hours have to be escorted by daily war, or PK or whatever? Thats one of the reasons, why ppl doesn't participate also in sieges. Meanwhile they cry about how the game is dieing out there is no pvp and no one pvp's anymore... well rocket scientists, this is exactly WHY! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iAndouille Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 Originally L2 is a game that provides a lot of interaction and pvp for spots, It happens very often that strong players uses big spots by exemple in primeval to farm as much as they can, and peoples just come over and steal mobs on the spots they are farming, So here it comes, they must pvp, grief eachother to fight for that spot, this is totally Correct and a part of L2 The problem with that nowadays is the fact that there are only Top geared players (50k$ toon) vs people without 200b worth of gear, so the competition and the pvp is no more a challenge, The most geared toon will annhiliate anyone, it's more like a Dictatorial system, there's no balance between players. It was not designed to be like that in L2 but the paytowin system decided that if you won't spend alot of money to gear up, or farm it somehow, you will not fully appreciate L2 competition as it should be. The War system , and everything is just fine, The PayToWin is the problem, and they won't change the systems because of the unbalance, they will probably put up more store items over time and people will probably catch up over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnabas666 Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 33 minutes ago, iAndouille said: The War system , and everything is just fine I agree to most but not this. Killing in siege zone during castle siege cant be count for starting war unless there is some WORKING mechanics to easy stop war. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anything Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 10 hours ago, iAndouille said: Originally L2 is a game that provides a lot of interaction and pvp for spots, It happens very often that strong players uses big spots by exemple in primeval to farm as much as they can, and peoples just come over and steal mobs on the spots they are farming, So here it comes, they must pvp, grief eachother to fight for that spot, this is totally Correct and a part of L2 The problem with that nowadays is the fact that there are only Top geared players (50k$ toon) vs people without 200b worth of gear, so the competition and the pvp is no more a challenge, The most geared toon will annhiliate anyone, it's more like a Dictatorial system, there's no balance between players. It was not designed to be like that in L2 but the paytowin system decided that if you won't spend alot of money to gear up, or farm it somehow, you will not fully appreciate L2 competition as it should be. The War system , and everything is just fine, The PayToWin is the problem, and they won't change the systems because of the unbalance, they will probably put up more store items over time and people will probably catch up over time. Obviously the easiest and cheapest solution for them to band-aid fix the problem would be just to allow to cancel war at any time no matter if someone is in combat. Heck if they have to just give it a 1 hour cooldown where war can't be taken off immediately so there is still meaning for wars and a consequence for triggering one. That way would be a middle ground for both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guti79_99 Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 11 hours ago, iAndouille said: Originally L2 is a game that provides a lot of interaction and pvp for spots, It happens very often that strong players uses big spots by exemple in primeval to farm as much as they can, and peoples just come over and steal mobs on the spots they are farming, So here it comes, they must pvp, grief eachother to fight for that spot, this is totally Correct and a part of L2 The problem with that nowadays is the fact that there are only Top geared players (50k$ toon) vs people without 200b worth of gear, so the competition and the pvp is no more a challenge, The most geared toon will annhiliate anyone, it's more like a Dictatorial system, there's no balance between players. It was not designed to be like that in L2 but the paytowin system decided that if you won't spend alot of money to gear up, or farm it somehow, you will not fully appreciate L2 competition as it should be. The War system , and everything is just fine, The PayToWin is the problem, and they won't change the systems because of the unbalance, they will probably put up more store items over time and people will probably catch up over time. I am in Andou on this. There is no way for the casual player to pvp with other characters that have invested a lot (time and money). However, if they bring back the PK system from GoD and previous versions where a RED player had the chance to drop a random item when it had more than 5 PK will at least have this guys to think twice before going red. A little story, we had this eviscerator (not giving names) that used to come and pk the whole party in Enchanted Valley (when EV was the best xp spot) and take our spot. This went over for weeks until one day, he either PK'ed another group or his steel mind was not up yet, but when he came to pk us as he has been doing for the past weeks, he finally got killed by one of our archers in the group and he dropped his +15 cloak. Since then, he wouldn't come alone and will bring someone else with him, but we will focus on him because we knew his pk numbers were over the 3 digits at least. We sure will die a lot, but we had healers logged out in our spot, so it will be matter of seconds to have the whole party up. Next time he died, he dropped his Tauti ring. That was the last time we saw him coming back to pk us. Bringing back the old PK system probably won't change this top players pk'ing people around, but at least they'll know if they go down they can drop something and they will think twice before doing it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bibishor Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 5 hours ago, guti79_99 said: I am in Andou on this. hm, do tell us please, could you be a bit more accurate? don't spare any details, i will do my best to find the time to read it ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuclearFusion Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 (edited) This topic looks like exeq7er from naia crying because enemies pk his boxes clans that he uses in siege/rbs/everywhere to pvp without war and get advantage . War system has to be changed, but not how you say, but to don't permit to 5-6 "box" clans to partecipate in wars without being killed like a big side of Naia does Edited May 27, 2020 by NuclearFusion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nymphadorae Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 @NuclearFusion don't forget to mention that most of llMAX detags to lllMAX during the full 2 weeks, except for those 2h of castle siege Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDxDan Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 Point is. The big geared people are all bandwagoning as 1 Side but complain about no competition, so they bully the rest of the server that doesnt wanna compete against ppl with 5+lvls and 2-6trillion adena gear on them. War and Pk system plays into their hands. On Chronos if your not running around with +16or higher weapon/at least +10 r110 gear, you are being bullied by 90% of those mentioned players. Even so called pve Clans with such Equiptment bully normal players who may just returned and want to farm some too. A Friend and me went to Dino Island and farmed and suddenly the Dagger from nearby pked all of us(2main chars+2alt chars). 1skill to pk each character. he says this is his spot now. pked us 20 more times, wouldnt let us rez and move elsewhere so we got forced to take the xp lose and tab to town. How to even try and catch up to offer pvp if your straight getting told you cant farm in the proper spots to farm items/xp. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bentorero Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 7 minutes ago, TDxDan said: Point is. The big geared people are all bandwagoning as 1 Side but complain about no competition, so they bully the rest of the server that doesnt wanna compete against ppl with 5+lvls and 2-6trillion adena gear on them. War and Pk system plays into their hands. On Chronos if your not running around with +16or higher weapon/at least +10 r110 gear, you are being bullied by 90% of those mentioned players. Even so called pve Clans with such Equiptment bully normal players who may just returned and want to farm some too. A Friend and me went to Dino Island and farmed and suddenly the Dagger from nearby pked all of us(2main chars+2alt chars). 1skill to pk each character. he says this is his spot now. pked us 20 more times, wouldnt let us rez and move elsewhere so we got forced to take the xp lose and tab to town. How to even try and catch up to offer pvp if your straight getting told you cant farm in the proper spots to farm items/xp. rr and ress in town Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDxDan Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 2 minutes ago, bentorero said: rr and ress in town this is not about xp lose or not. its about Pk system and War system being bad back in the Day u only needed to say it once in Shout that theres a Red with alot of pks and everyone would show up nowadays bully pkers get away with it cause theres no more geardrop when a Red dies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bentorero Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 4 minutes ago, TDxDan said: this is not about xp lose or not. its about Pk system and War system being bad back in the Day u only needed to say it once in Shout that theres a Red with alot of pks and everyone would show up nowadays bully pkers get away with it cause theres no more geardrop when a Red dies. u also know that even if they get red it only take a few mobs to be white again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDxDan Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 36 minutes ago, bentorero said: u also know that even if they get red it only take a few mobs to be white again? yeah another bad habit of the pk system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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