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Divekio

Is 14 players clan an exploit in the game ?

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4 minutes ago, L0RELEI said:

Would be simple if the Aden owners were not using jump exploit. Simple, right?

7 minutes ago, Gonein60Seconds said:

This is not abuse nor an exploit, you are trying to split hairs. It is a game mechanic. 

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Aleira    15

 

1 minute ago, Dagger said:

Simple example;
14 man clan joins PVP = Can PVP freely.

15 man clan joins PVP = Can PVP with fear of war, if they have a declaration going.

The war system was changed to force wars to activate on 5 deaths for a reason.

This is an exploit of the current system as it is meant to gain an unfair advantage, this is obvious to anyone and you cant really argue against it.
 

It definitely needs looking into as this old system feels very outdated at this point.

Dont care for the drama between MS//Nova/LB/FS/ProPVE and every other small clan people jump into, just my two cents on this specific matter.
/Znipo

 

i would not be opposed to an overhaul of the wars system, because yes, it does seem a little dated, but forcing people into situations where they are unable to defend themselves from griefers isn't the answer.

just with minimal thought off the top of my head, the easiest fix might look like this:

  • no more 5 kills automatically triggering a war,
  • 1 way war just means the clan with a declaration up will take war death penalty, but the side with no war takes full deaths when they die
  • 2 way war remains unchanged
  • clans can declare on any other clan
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Dagger    11
Just now, Aleira said:

 

i would not be opposed to an overhaul of the wars system, because yes, it does seem a little dated, but forcing people into situations where they are unable to defend themselves from griefers isn't the answer.

just with minimal thought off the top of my head, the easiest fix might look like this:

  • no more 5 kills automatically triggering a war,
  • 1 way war just means the clan with a declaration up will take war death penalty, but the side with no war takes full deaths when they die
  • 2 way war remains unchanged
  • clans can declare on any other clan

 

Indeed, there are many ways to go at this and I think Divekio raised an important topic - the current war system is like a decade old at this point.

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Pia    2

I am totally convinced of this, divekio wants us for his fun, but when something does not favor him he does this!

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Entire Server knows you play multiple accounts in Oly, but we are not crying about that. Again you guys are just mad because you can't kill us whenever you want. What does it matter anyways if you are taking your ball and going to Core?

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Hydrogen    17

The current war system is beneficial only for the bigger clans. 

In isolated incidents at hunting spots, players using the current war system, to keep their "spot rival" away from the spot. A war declaration involving the whole clan, but its used mostly, to gain advantage for a hunting spot.

The only way for PVE or smaller clans to defend themselves is these:

1) Staying in 14 members clan, if they willing to fight back

2) They accept the bullying/griefing and looking for another spot.

Remove the 5 kills trigger war and everyone will be happy. Thats mostly seems to be more of an exploit, because we have seen plenty times the "force pvp in macro" and the war goes active, without consedence.

Also, the bigger "pvp clans" will have more pvp daily, because there are players that are willing to fight back hard for their spot, without having to feel responsible if a war goes up, affecting their clan.

A pvp for a hunting spot = Isolated incident.

A war between clans = Must be done with both sides consedence, without restrictions.

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Galador    8
23 minutes ago, Hydrogen said:

No its not an exploit. 

But if you want that to change, it comes with 2 way changes. 

You can declare war to a clan with less than 14 members, but it would be fair to remove the 5 kills trigger war, for the entire war system as well.

 

The entire war system, needs to change. Two clans should go to war, with their consedence. Bigger clans declaring wars, over a hunting spot and they don't give the chance to smaller clans to retaliate, for an isolated incident. 

The most fair change in my opinion, is to change the war system entirely.

Remove the "14 clan members restriction", but also the "5 kills trigger war". 

More pvp for hunting spots, more fun, without needed to affect a whole clan. 

My two cents. 

"More pvp for hunting spots, more fun, without need to affect a whole clan."  Okay, who exactly is having fun?  Those that are questing and trying to level up?  Or those that have most everything in the game, are bored, and harass people just for 'fun'?  The problem has always been the 'abuse' element.  There are those high level players that like to dominate weaker players and clans, and that want to keep the lower levels in a box so that can't challenge them in the future by leveling up.  Again, the aggressive pvp players have always dominated this MMORPG (Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game) to the detriment to those that don't pvp, and have no desire to pvp.  And please, no "this is a pvp game" comments.  Read the original propaganda for Lin2, they called it an RPG with a PVP function.  NCsoft said that, not me.  I came from Lineage 1 after participating in Closed Beta.  Again, the game should be big enough to accommodate all types of players, instead of what we've seen in the past, the bullies running others out of the game.  The function in question allows for that diversity.

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Fumb    6
Posted (edited)

How you feel about something and how something is are two different things. I feel like I shouldn't have to pvp someone who out levels me by 5 levels. I feel I should be able to take part in a castle siege without being war grieved by said players for weeks. Don't hate the player hate the game scenario. But don't hate the game either cause then your not happy playing a game that's for fun and no one wants that.

Edited by Fumb

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ABnD    9
42 minutes ago, FaithSeed said:

Do you can prove that?

Ilshmila has a recording of it he already put on the forums. Go find it

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@Fumb The thing is, they abuse it to have their side win pvp. (FS/Nova/ProPvE). If they actually were just neutral then it wouldn't matter, but they aren't. What I posted is a possible solution with a minor consequence if they try to continue to bypass it.

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Hydrogen    17
6 minutes ago, Galador said:

"More pvp for hunting spots, more fun, without need to affect a whole clan."  Okay, who exactly is having fun?  Those that are questing and trying to level up?  Or those that have most everything in the game, are bored, and harass people just for 'fun'?  The problem has always been the 'abuse' element.  There are those high level players that like to dominate weaker players and clans, and that want to keep the lower levels in a box so that can't challenge them in the future by leveling up.  Again, the aggressive pvp players have always dominated this MMORPG (Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game) to the detriment to those that don't pvp, and have no desire to pvp.  And please, no "this is a pvp game" comments.  Read the original propaganda for Lin2, they called it an RPG with a PVP function.  NCsoft said that, not me.  I came from Lineage 1 after participating in Closed Beta.  Again, the game should be big enough to accommodate all types of players, instead of what we've seen in the past, the bullies running others out of the game.  The function in question allows for that diversity.

Don't get me wrong i agree 100% with you. If they remove the 5 kills trigger, someone can fight back for the spot, fight back the bully. Now its impossible, cause a possible engage, will affect the whole clan. Thats my point. But in any case i totally agree with you.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Hydrogen said:

Don't get me wrong i agree 100% with you. If they remove the 5 kills trigger, someone can fight back for the spot, fight back the bully. Now its impossible, cause a possible engage, will affect the whole clan. Thats my point. But in any case i totally agree with you.

I dont think you guys know the full story of the situation tho. PvP between FS/MS is back and forth therefore FS will call ProPvE sometimes. With this being said, FS/MS both know to hold a party back in the pvp to wait out skills. However, both sides have been pushing through forcing that 2nd party to use defensives. Now, after this being said, with no war being up on ProPvE, we are not able to push through and make them use skills. Therefore ultimately, we have a very slim chance of being the last people standing which is what is considered a 'win'.

ProPvE is not a neutral clan whatsoever. That is 100% a lie. Therefore making this clan member limit declaration system an abuse.

Edited by ChocolateChip

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mixa    498

This system is in place for a reason.Imo it should never be removed.

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ABnD    9
Just now, ChocolateChip said:

I dont think you guys know the full story of the situation tho. PvP between FS/MS is back and forth therefore FS will call ProPvE sometimes. With this being said, FS/MS both know to hold a party back in the pvp to wait out skills. However, both sides have been pushing through forcing that 2nd party to use defensives. Now, after this being said, with no war being up on ProPvE, we are not able to push through and make them use skills. Therefore ultimately, we have a very slim chance of being the last people standing which is what is considered a 'win'.

ProPvE is not a neutral clan whatsoever. That is 100% a lie

You've got plenty of alt clans... just put a party there and do the same thing. Problem solved topic dead

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ReaperGG    54
54 minutes ago, Karigan said:

The 14 man clan mechanic was one of a couple things that were put into to place to protect against the big clan that goes around declaring wars on smaller clans and halting progression on a one sided server.  The other was that clans did not have to accept war, however, the bigger clans have found ways around that by forcing players to kill others in a similar method as shown in the video regarding the PK bug.  The only thing protecting the smaller clans right now from getting zerged out of existence is the 14 man clan rule and you guys want to remove that too. LOL 

Why are you so scared of these 14 man clans if yours is so much bigger?  Truth is, this stops you from setting your toons on top of their hunting spots and KSing without fear of repercussions and wars starting.  They can now defend themselves from this tactic.    The 14 man clan doesn't prevent you from PVPing them, it prevents you from griefing and the new PK system makes you take a second thought before you go mass PKing like you were also want to do.  As for sieges, if they have 14 man clans on siege grounds they're aoeing each other.  If your clan is bigger you should have an advantage.  Why are you scared of 14 people? 

So Renovatio and Propve and b0ss arent big clans? out of all the nonesense u ppl say over time u finally had a moment of clarity there. :D

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2 minutes ago, ABnD said:

You've got plenty of alt clans... just put a party there and do the same thing. Problem solved topic dead

MS does not abuse this system, as ProPvE has been doing

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ABnD    9
Just now, ChocolateChip said:

MS does not abuse this system, as ProPvE has been doing

Weren't you just banned for exploiting? 

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Hydrogen    17
Just now, ChocolateChip said:

I dont think you guys know the full story of the situation tho. PvP between FS/MS is back and forth therefore FS will call ProPvE sometimes. With this being said, FS/MS both know to hold a party back in the pvp to wait out skills. However, both sides have been pushing through forcing that 2nd party to use defensives. Now, after this being said, with no war being up on ProPvE, we are not able to push through and make them use skills. Therefore ultimately, we have a very slim chance of being the last people standing which is what is considered a 'win'.

ProPvE is not a neutral clan whatsoever. That is 100% a lie. Therefore making this clan member limit declaration system an abuse.

I am talking about game mechanics from my own experience, i am not aware of what MS/FS/Nova or ProPVE does and not belonging to any of that side.

And my own experience is that being in a pve clan, we got declarations over a hunting spot, just to leave from there.  When my clanmates defend for themselves and killing the bully, a clan war appears in our screen. For an isolated incident, a clan war. Makes sense? No. 

So my posts are strictly to game mechanics and own experience. The current system is bully friendly, and has to be change.

 

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Divekio    17
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Hydrogen said:

I am talking about game mechanics from my own experience, i am not aware of what MS/FS/Nova or ProPVE does and not belonging to any of that side.

And my own experience is that being in a pve clan, we got declarations over a hunting spot, just to leave from there.  When my clanmates defend for themselves and killing the bully, a clan war appears in our screen. For an isolated incident, a clan war. Makes sense? No. 

So my posts are strictly to game mechanics and own experience. The current system is bully friendly, and has to be change.

 

In that case , if a clan pk you and you dont want start war, killing the Pk does not start the war.I understand what you are saying but PK ing has penality. My problem is about clan under 14 players who abuse this system who is intended to help people like you . It is just not working anymore in the way that was intended and has to be changed . 

Edited by Divekio

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Cochise    0
1 minute ago, Divekio said:

In that case , if a bigger clan abuse you, you should let them pk, come with your friends and kill the PK . 

That's all well and good if it were just the PKer there. It's not really fair when a Mastercard warrior comes to the PKer's rescue with a lvl 2 dragon bow now is it? Don't act like you don't know this.

 

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Galador    8
14 minutes ago, ChocolateChip said:

I dont think you guys know the full story of the situation tho. PvP between FS/MS is back and forth therefore FS will call ProPvE sometimes. With this being said, FS/MS both know to hold a party back in the pvp to wait out skills. However, both sides have been pushing through forcing that 2nd party to use defensives. Now, after this being said, with no war being up on ProPvE, we are not able to push through and make them use skills. Therefore ultimately, we have a very slim chance of being the last people standing which is what is considered a 'win'.

ProPvE is not a neutral clan whatsoever. That is 100% a lie. Therefore making this clan member limit declaration system an abuse.

Okay, so help me understand.  You're saying you can't PVP unless you have a war going?  Alternatively, do they, in their configuration, have the ability to force you to do something you don't want to?  Other than body count, what is it "specifically" about a war that determines the out come of a PVP engagement?  As a 'nonfactor' as some have had occasion to call me, I have engaged in PVP and seiges, regardless of whether a war was ongoing or not.  So what is different about this?

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Hydrogen    17
3 minutes ago, Divekio said:

In that case , if a clan pk you and you dont want start war, killing the Pk does not start the war.I understand what you are saying but PK ing has penality. My problem is about clan under 14 players who abuse this system who is intended to help people like you . It is just not working anymore in the way that was intended and has to be changed . 

Divekio, i agree at the first place with your original post, that you must declare war in every clan you want. But also, there are clans, that are not interested on war, but willing to defend their spot. So removing the 5 kills trigger, is a fair counter action. 

My clan has 60 ppl, and we receive wars over a hunting spot, which is not fair. 

For example, if you declare war on my clan, i can still try to defend my spot. If i die, i will lose full exp, if you die, you will lose only the "active war" exp. Its very fair, that example. 

And you can pvp the clans that have 14 members, and they will lose more exp if they die, than you do. Makes sense i think. 

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ABnD    9

I agree something should be done with the war system, but saying it's an exploit is ridiculous.... also making it so you can't fight back without having war activated because you have a bully clan is also ridiculous. The 5 kills is dumb. Make it so there's no penalty for pvping when declared upon and you'll get more pvp plain and simple. Until then people will utilize these tactics

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