Classic Server Maintenance: Wednesday, July 1, 2020

[GoodDay]

13 hours ago, Nevermind said:

That's very unfortunate, as some people (me included) run one main party and one farming party. I do understand that it might be an attempt to fight bots, quite strange one - you could have easily ban them without setting this limit, you have all the data needed for that.

Moreover, from my understanding bot software does effectively hide from your bot detection software built into client, so this limit most likely won't affect bots, but instead - will affect legit players like myself.

I would really appreciate if you could analyze the current situation better and undo that unfortunate mistake.

Thanks in advance!

--

Sincirely yours, most likely already VIP20, NeverDwarf

Agree,  not that i need, i run 8 accounts and all have vip 2 at least my main vip 3. But Bot's please not again i played lineage 2 as the 1 game i played i my life time was in 1997 if iam not rong server Kain and bots was and is rong no need for that in the game now if you have a litle brains, i was suspecting of that activity on the server but wasn't sure , please ban all that braindamage from the server...

[GoodDay]

16 minutes ago, GoodDay said:

Agree,  not that i need, i run 8 accounts and all have vip 2 at least my main vip 3. But Bot's please not again i played lineage 2 as the 1 game i played i my life time was in 1997 if iam not rong server Kain and bots was and is rong no need for that in the game now if you have a litle brains, i was suspecting of that activity on the server but wasn't sure , please ban all that braindamage from the server...

 i also come from eu server that close and i also think the adena rates are very low for the server or the soulshots on the server also very hard to get even on Nstore is too much euros for a litle SS please make it more accessible on EU server i remember to spend like 5 euros for 500 scrolls of SS on store here you survive whit no SS and buy every day 30 whit adena to be able to save for a boost on lvl one day thats why ppl also run so many accounts to be able to farm whit no SS.

[Mayce]

players played on the two party. They used rune for 7 days exp. And how should I use it since I can't log in to the second party.
JuJI/Hime should inform you about such changes a week earlier, not 12 hours. This is not fair.

 

 

Edited July 1, 2020 by Mayce

[DarkFeoh]

15 hours ago, Hime said:

 

• The game client will now be restricted to 10 clients per PC.

Guys, can you please limit for each Classic and Live version 3 - 5 clients per PC?

Thanks for the updates!

 

[GiNOO23]

6 hours ago, zafrb said:

that will not effect bot users... u let us make trainsand  now u just  limite us ?? some people used to run  2 party  and now QQ they  make all that chars and u come back to say just 10??  worst ever...  just sad  to this

you shouldn't be running 2 parties, it's an mmo game  like any other mmo you should be playing 1 character and not botting 18.

[Pradaya]

You use another pc to get around this. The limit is by hwid. 

[Nevermind]

I've just realized that NC by that decision just boosted one certain application sales. Which adds even more questions about relations between that software vendor and NC or NC staff. GJ NC, GJ...

[Nevermind]

And, setting my usual sarcasm and extra (sometimes - passive-aggressive) politeness aside, I will be dead serious here.

I'm paying customer (and highly paying customer), so I want answers to the below and publicly, please do not tell me "cut a ticket". This problem is of public interest.

@Juji, @Hime, could you please answer one simple question: was that move (limit of 10 windows per computer) made to achieve one or both of the below goals (because there are no other possible (not even saying positive) impacts):

• Encourage last remaining legit players to start using illegal software to workaround that limit?
• Encourage people leave, as it is impossible with current drops to pay for shots (not even saying about buying equipment) for one's main party if you don't have farm party which farms adena not using shots?

I suspect that clear and honest answer to this question will help to dot l's and cross T's.

I specifically have bought my new PC and recently upgraded RAM to be able to run more clients (and I'm not using bot, it is just 1 main and 1 farm parties + couple of shops). Do you suggest that I should buy another? Why would you think it is a good thing to do? Which problem are you trying to solve? Why running 20 client on 2 PCs is any better than running 20 on the same PC?

Fun part of this is that bots don't need to buy another PC, they will just buy illegal software to workaround this, while legit players will suffer. And even if such software didn't exist, there are 1000s of dirt-cheap used PCs on eBay and with the profits bots make by doing RMT they can easily afford buying any number of these rigs to overcome the limit.

Also, seeing all inaction of NC related to bots, while the anti-bot/bot detection (but, technically speaking - just intrusive spyware/rootkit) collects and reports information on those who do use bot to NC - a lot of questions and concerns arise.

Having thought logically I have only three possibilities here:

• NC is trying to boost sales of used PCs on eBay
• NC is trying to boost sales of certain illegal (according to NC's EULA) software
• NC made a mistake by limiting the number of clients, as didn't fully analyze the impact of such move

I leave it to the public to make a conclusion which one of this is more likely, but I would like to hear from either @Hime and/or @Juji which one of these is the real one.

Having said all of the above, as a paying customer, who does not get quality of service he is paying for, I do DEMAND removal of the 10 window limit, as it does not help to solve ANY of the problems Lineage 2 Classic has and is absolutely pointless (unless your goal was to achieve one of the above). Please fix this terrible unfortunate mistake. I would really appreciate this.

P.S. Worst case scenario, if, for whatever reasons (i.e. Korean HQ demanding to introduce this limit) you need to have certain limit - set it to something reasonable - 9+9 (parties) + 5 (shops/craft shops/market checker) = 23, so let's round it up to 24 or 25. It is, probably, maximum number of clients could be run on current conventional not-so-overpowered hardware (ofc if one does not have 3990x with 64C/128T and 2Tb RAM).

--

Yours truly,

NeverDwarf

[Diskahan]

15 minutes ago, Nevermind said:

And, setting my usual sarcasm and extra (sometimes - passive-aggressive) politeness aside, I will be dead serious here.

I'm paying customer (and highly paying customer), so I want answers to the below and publicly, please do not tell me "cut a ticket". This problem is of public interest.

@Juji, @Hime, could you please answer one simple question: was that move (limit of 10 windows per computer) made to achieve one or both of the below goals (because there are no other possible (not even saying positive) impacts):

• Encourage last remaining legit players to start using illegal software to workaround that limit?
• Encourage people leave, as it is impossible with current drops to pay for shots (not even saying about buying equipment) for one's main party if you don't have farm party which farms adena not using shots?

I suspect that clear and honest answer to this question will help to dot l's and cross T's.

I specifically have bought my new PC and recently upgraded RAM to be able to run more clients (and I'm not using bot, it is just 1 main and 1 farm parties + couple of shops). Do you suggest that I should buy another? Why would you think it is a good thing to do? Which problem are you trying to solve? Why running 20 client on 2 PCs is any better than running 20 on the same PC?

Fun part of this is that bots don't need to buy another PC, they will just buy illegal software to workaround this, while legit players will suffer. And even if such software didn't exist, there are 1000s of dirt-cheap used PCs on eBay and with the profits bots make by doing RMT they can easily afford buying any number of these rigs to overcome the limit.

Also, seeing all inaction of NC related to bots, while the anti-bot/bot detection (but, technically speaking - just intrusive spyware/rootkit) collects and reports information on those who do use bot to NC - a lot of questions and concerns arise.

Having thought logically I have only three possibilities here:

• NC is trying to boost sales of used PCs on eBay
• NC is trying to boost sales of certain illegal (according to NC's EULA) software
• NC made a mistake by limiting the number of clients, as didn't fully analyze the impact of such move

I leave it to the public to make a conclusion which one of this is more likely, but I would like to hear from either @Hime and/or @Juji which one of these is the real one.

Having said all of the above, as a paying customer, who does not get quality of service he is paying for, I do DEMAND removal of the 10 window limit, as it does not help to solve ANY of the problems Lineage 2 Classic has and is absolutely pointless (unless your goal was to achieve one of the above). Please fix this terrible unfortunate mistake. I would really appreciate this.

P.S. Worst case scenario, if, for whatever reasons (i.e. Korean HQ demanding to introduce this limit) you need to have certain limit - set it to something reasonable - 9+9 (parties) + 5 (shops/craft shops/market checker) = 23, so let's round it up to 24 or 25. It is, probably, maximum number of clients could be run on current conventional not-so-overpowered hardware (ofc if one does not have 3990x with 64C/128T and 2Tb RAM).

--

Yours truly,

NeverDwarf

25 chars per pc? are u crazy? this is a mmo, not a job, the easiest way to fix this is INCREASE ADENA RATE and lower even more the accs per pc to 3-5, and PUT THE REPORT BUTTON AGAIN (and ofc check the reports to ban bots). Problem solved. With that you will need to go as party with more ppl, that i think is what the game is made for.

If you want to play solo, go and download a single player game. this is MMO (MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER ONLINE) Game. Your reasons are not bad but you are "demanding" something ridiculous convenient only for YOU.

[poiison01]

18 hours ago, birobiro said:

It's very fortunate for everyone else. Still weird they think 10 is okay. While having a side farm party you're potencially taking the spot from someone else. If your knowledge about bot software is correct, doesn't matter, your logic is that if bot does x, y should be able to do at least closer to that but no, you shouldn't, because bots should not be playing in the first place.

can i just  paste it infinitely ????????? 

"because bots should not be playing in the first place."

"because bots should not be playing in the first place."

"because bots should not be playing in the first place."

this is  disrespectful to allow bots run  just like that ,and the best part is when you read the terms it says about third part program , ai ai ai , JOKE  of all time .

WELL DONE NCSOFT for being  so disrespectful to players letting bots run freely .

[Pradaya]

It's possible to see adjustments after the client limit is in place. They should've done this from the beginning because you have to factor in the realities of unlimited free accounts. Now there is a soft limit so they can consider increasing the adena rate. Not to say that being able to box full parties for free and afk solo isn't already a huge benefit for this game. Let's have some perspective. 

2 pcs 10 clients each. Full party + store toon. Any dedicated player can easily achieve this. There are plenty of people not running 2 full parties. It's bit of an exaggeration. 

Adena shop is a good mechanism that rewards real players over bots. They can also consider increasing the daily limit on shots/ores. 

All in all I think it is a step in the right direction to have some form of a client limit. Game balance is heavily contingent on the extent of multi-boxing. 

[Nevermind]

12 minutes ago, Pradaya said:

It's possible to see adjustments after the client limit is in place. They should've done this from the beginning because you have to factor in the realities of unlimited free accounts. Now there is a soft limit so they can consider increasing the adena rate. Not to say that being able to box full parties for free and afk solo isn't already a huge benefit for this game. Let's have some perspective. 

2 pcs 10 clients each. Full party + store toon. Any dedicated player can easily achieve this. There are plenty of people not running 2 full parties. It's bit of an exaggeration. 

Adena shop is a good mechanism that rewards real players over bots. They can also consider increasing the daily limit on shots/ores. 

All in all I think it is a step in the right direction to have some form of a client limit. Game balance is heavily contingent on the extent of multi-boxing. 

It is just temporary. I can bet that in few hours RoA will be full of bots again (as well as the rest of locations).

-NeverDwarf

[Juano1]

Im happy with this 10 chars limit. I think it should be even lower!

[KingShavaTEAMEM]

Every update is worse friend there are problems with the launcher............

[Nevermind]

So, just to let all of you know - bots are back in RoA, as expected.

[Pradaya]

13 minutes ago, Nevermind said:

So, just to let all of you know - bots are back in RoA, as expected.

This isn't all about bot farmers. Game balance has to be considered around players. As soon as they increase adena and people are still boxing 2 full parties the game will break. 

If only players hold to the actual client limit can they truly consider balancing the game around that, but that will never be the case. It is already the case with some running 100s of accounts. This soft limit will not change the fact for determined players to still run 2 full parties. All it takes is another pc.

[pegaso]

a good masive ban to botters like it happened in WOW classic will be a realy good thing to see here, keep 10 account limit and put a permanent x2 adena drop to 75+ 80+ so it will not be needed to anyone to have the second party, to sustain the cost of ss of main py. It has no sense that low lvl 20 mobs drop 150-1000 adena and top mobs 80+ 9000 not even more than 10k per mob, the only way to win with only 1 py is to farm without ss but you cant do it in all spots.

[Pradaya]

22 minutes ago, pegaso said:

a good masive ban to botters like it happened in WOW classic will be a realy good thing to see here, keep 10 account limit and put a permanent x2 adena drop to 75+ 80+ so it will not be needed to anyone to have the second party, to sustain the cost of ss of main py. It has no sense that low lvl 20 mobs drop 150-1000 adena and top mobs 80+ 9000 not even more than 10k per mob, the only way to win with only 1 py is to farm without ss but you cant do it in all spots.

Just to be devil's advocate, but this game is still designed around a party. Not 1 person solo afk farming everything. 

An active bd/sws assisting would make a significant difference in dps, but they are pure buff bots and still taking up slots. I wonder if people actually played the game how different it would be. 

[pegaso]

5 minutes ago, Pradaya said:

Just to be devil's advocate, but this game is still designed around a party. Not 1 person solo afk farming everything. 

An active bd/sws assisting would make a significant difference in dps, but they are pure buff bots and still taking up slots. I wonder if people actually played the game how different it would be. 

its a 16 years old game, the kids of today just play shooter style games, MMorpg are not top played games any more so you need to keep the community that you have, cuz you know that the chance of new people comming to a server that has years its very low. In new servers you will have the emotion of some people that play some months but there are few that keep playing long term games. This classics svs are in realy bad shape cuz all new who enter see a full bot sv just 5 min after the begining and just leave, no one wants to play active in a game just played by bots, and its not the only problem, if one says that its needed to log 2 full pys to play a game it have no sense for most of people, who want to play a game where i have to log 18 acc to afk farm? most will just play lol, fortnite, valorant, or any other game, fun and short. I think most of people that play with 20+ accounts see this game like a work, forgetting that the real idea was not that, and you see now oficial svs with 3 4k logged chars, with some people with 20 30 acc, and 70% of sv are bots.  

[MAGE-DK]

As a player, may I ask the purpose of this new update? - I just went around the Ruins Of Agony, most of the places have a Sum Elf farm. - And most of the friends I play with must choose classes to farm 10 acc / pc. Is this anti bot or anti player no bot? When one side is not affected, the other side is affected. Really fair? Or will I buy the Bot to be fair to the Bot already?

[OdeZza]

More Events for Pendants and Talismans Please ^^

[LilSarah]

I have a problem, I could only log 5 accounts in Talking island but when I try to add the Sixth (1 Chronos) I get that error.

[Nevermind]

Ahahahahaha. Another great fail by NC.

[Tool_of_Society]

On 7/1/2020 at 7:55 AM, Tzuv said:

I use Blessed spirit shots to lvl (expensive than soulshots). And I’m farming(no shots) in Dark Omens and I almost can afford the Blessed from my sorcerer. It is crazy. Now I just can not afford the blessed any more If I can’t farm adenas. 
what i really mean is, I’m agree with the 10 boxes if we have the chance to afford the shouts at least...

Yes per cast BSPS is 3.72x the cost of SS. I don't have a high level wizard on classic but I do see plenty of similarly geared mages hitting for at least 3x the damage per cast that I do per swing. So damage per adena is roughly the same in the end. With one properly geared wizard you can kill at a much faster rate than my melee party does AND your wizard doesn't have to move unless you're soloing a large room which I've seen quite a bit and my group can't do. Meanwhile my tank alone uses a bit over 103k shots a day. My DPS uses at least 400k shots a day to kill at a slower rate than your wizard.. Really there's a reason why solo wizards with a few supports are taking over rooms everywhere...

It'd be interesting to hear your perspective though as I said I don't have a high level wizard on classic.

 

On 7/1/2020 at 7:57 AM, Mirdachni said:

I agree limit to 3 account is more than enough. Thanks for the limit, but lower limit would be better. I'm also wondering why are you doing the limit on client side instead of limiting IP connection to 10 account per IP on the server side so it would also limit bots. 

I'm playing SE and it's hard to find parties with all the people boxing healer class. A live healer is so much better and it is fun to play unless you can't find parties because everybody is making their own little bot groups. 

 

Thanks for limiting to 10 account, it's a good start. I don't even understand how can people enjoy playing 10 character at a time....

Limiting via IP would require too much work for them and be ineffective. It would also cause a lot of issues as whole cities can appear under the same IP from the game's perspective because of technologies ISps use such as NAT. It's not a good idea.

 

[emmjay]

this has got to be one of the most ridiculous things ever done.

When you started this version of the game you limited it to 3 clients. Ok those are the rules. No big deal all my buddies are in we all doing the same thing. Everyone is happy

Then you go pay to win and remove the 3 client limit. All my buddies quit im left playing the game by myself.

Then you introduce an in game hunting feature that automates gameplay. Sweeeeet. I set up characters make all kinds of new toons and classes and run up to 23 clients on one pc. Not to sell adena but purely for my own enjoyment. I get all these characters levels of vip and then,,,,

You decide to limit this down to 10 clients per pc? Are you shitting me? I have one pc its a good one. it has multiple monitors I dont have a need for multi pcs. But here you go changing the rules mid game that affects absolutely everyone and has no bearing what so ever on servers. It just affects our enjoyment of the game and what we have worked on creating all kinds of different toons and classes. You even run an event that makes people want to have 40 clients. You offer free baium talismans to everyone who is level 80....so everyone rushes their toons to 80 and then weeks later you drop this hammmer?

Now I have to go buy another pc? Or i simply run a virtual machine on the same pc. Why would you simply inconvenience your customers? Why would you make us purchase more hardware to enjoy the game we have spent countless dollars on? All for naught. cause now i cant play the way YOU TOLD ME WAS OK! I SPENT MONEY ON MULTIPLE TOONS CAUSE YOU SAID IT WAS OK!

Other than make this game pay to win this was the biggest blunder i have seen yet