VMware not working, is this deliberate by NCSoft?

[SM-T]

On 26/08/2020 at 1:19 AM, Ishmila said:

let me get this strait.... having 2 computers is ok?   but having a VM is not?  where is the logic in that lol. 

Also what if people are not using it to bypass the limit of clients, then its ok ? 

You right no logic !

It's an idea to limit the account by IP address (uthopian), but we know that  idea can also be circumvented by a Proxy, very complicated, so no solution.

Thanks.

[mixa]

This is circumventing the 3 client limit.I have several esxi servers that can run around 90 vms each, should I log 270 clients on one?

You mengs are going over the heads of nc and then ask why you can't run em now? WTS brains

[SM-T]

I forget, NC soft also know the mac address.

Edited August 28, 2020 by Chanix

[GhostintheShell]

So as long as we don't use VMware and we don't circumvent 3 clients per PC/laptop, then it's ok?  How are you going to stop someone with "means" to purchase an arrary of 10 computers that runs 30 clients on physical hardware?  Are you going to make new rules that you cannot have X amount of MAC address coming from a single IP?  How would you enforce that giving an ISP has an IP, and local subnet has another IP, a router can be behind another router, another router can be behind another router - where does the chase end?  Is this even remotely possible to enforce?

So I want to know exactly what is the issue here?  

Is this a server capacity issue that gets pushed down on us the loyal customers to "inconvenient" us?  What is the real issue here?

And please explain the logic of why 2 laptops running 6 clients is ok but 1 laptop running 3 clients and 3 clients inside a VMware is not ok?  There is no cheating here - there is no botting 3rd party software to take advantage of scripts in PvP battles or even in PvE.  It's just a virtual machine that can easily be replaced with a physical laptop or a PC.  EASILY replaced.

[Draecke]

actually no not easily, it means a significant cost increase unlike the cheap VMware

stop trying to justify why you're breaking the EULA restriction of 3 clients per PC is ok as you on purpose choose the ignore the reason why we have that restriction in place to begin with..

in a perfect world there are no rmt bots or armies of alts farming adena that leverage the cheapest means of running maximum possible accounts per pc to keep profit margins high etc. but till that day restrictions to make it as less profitable as possible and thus unburden the server load of freeloading rmt bots are here to stay

instead of asking for allowing VMware and the like you should ask when @Juji thinks the max account restriction can be eased or lifted, maybe he could share how Korea deals with this issue as they have different rules on max account login or even better maybe we will get same system as EU/RU which means you will have to pay for every extra account you log on top of everything else

regardless allowing the use of VMware was an unintended oversight of NC which they're now fixing so just be happy it lasted for as long as it did as you knew very well it broke the rules and of course you can still choose to keep using it but know that it's not hard to detect it's actual use.

Edited August 29, 2020 by Draecke

[Lean]

Ppl still whining, @Juji already say its against the rules. 

D you want follow the rules so only use the LAUNCHER to play the game, if you CANT load more than 3 boxes and want make tricks to be able to load more, do whatever you want.

BUT do at your own risk, we are grow up right? 

If you all get ban latter you will knw why.

[SM-T]

You can have 9 pc and only put 1 client per pc, you have the right, or 1 powerful pc and start several VM, so from how many pc NC soft can say it's suspect .... Some players have 3,4,5 pc see more, VM is not detectable to my knowledge, and i don't think NC soft has time for this.

Thanks !

[FireWire]

1 hour ago, Chanix said:

You can have 9 pc and only put 1 client per pc, you have the right, or 1 powerful pc and start several VM, so from how many pc NC soft can say it's suspect .... Some players have 3,4,5 pc see more, VM is not detectable to my knowledge, and i don't think NC soft has time for this.

Thanks !

any network engineer worth their salt knows how to detect vmware logins so why are you trying to get players banned here with false information ?

 

[mixa]

6 hours ago, FireWire said:

any network engineer worth their salt knows how to detect vmware logins so why are you trying to get players banned here with false information ?

 

Pretty much it depends. If it's a simple vm like virtual box or vmware player, it's easy to detect indeed. But if it's advanced vm with isolated host and custom drivers and configurations, good luck distinguishing it from a stand alone pc.

Just for an example, I can run 3 clients on the Core with Frost that detects VMs.

[SM-T]

14 hours ago, FireWire said:

any network engineer worth their salt knows how to detect vmware logins so why are you trying to get players banned here with false information ?

 

We are talking about VM here, ok. You could have said  that at the beginning of this topic, or also take another example. Even though ppl are using it or could use it, do you really think i have an influence on that ? What i am saying is  clear, i specify well  "to my knowledge". I will not deepen my knowledge on this subject any further. I am an engineer on something else but not a system engineer. Ppl are responsible for their actions. Do you think i want ppl to be banned ?  I like Lineage 2, i like transparent things, so the truth, and if you had read my topic better, you would have seen that there is nothing wrong, and false. Do you think NC soft will take the time for this ? Do you think  all the ppl who talk about this topic on the forum are trying to get ppl banned or get banned themselves ? Do you think i'm too specific on the subject ? If NC soft didn't want ppl talking about this topic, we wouldn't discuss that here!

Thank you ! 

7 hours ago, mixa said:

Pretty much it depends. If it's a simple vm like virtual box or vmware player, it's easy to detect indeed. But if it's advanced vm with isolated host and custom drivers and configurations, good luck distinguishing it from a stand alone pc.

Just for an example, I can run 3 clients on the Core with Frost that detects VMs.

The presence of functional or performance problems can be suspected, locally of course. People who are experienced with VM and have very good equipment usually know that.

I don't promote for VM in any way, i just give my opinion, i want to be clear about this.

Thanks !

Edited August 30, 2020 by Chanix

[Anything]

The problem is when they given people the means to login many more people were irresponsible and completely killed the server performance with it.
Now they have persistent server problems which means they are getting tired to deal with bypasses that make the problem worse.
I hope the actions of a few who login too many characters are not going to cause even more penalizing punishing impacts to everyone else because the majority of people always suffer because of the actions of a minority group that ruins it for everyone else.

[GhostintheShell]

On 8/28/2020 at 6:25 PM, Draecke said:

actually no not easily, it means a significant cost increase unlike the cheap VMware

stop trying to justify why you're breaking the EULA restriction of 3 clients per PC is ok as you on purpose choose the ignore the reason why we have that restriction in place to begin with..

in a perfect world there are no rmt bots or armies of alts farming adena that leverage the cheapest means of running maximum possible accounts per pc to keep profit margins high etc. but till that day restrictions to make it as less profitable as possible and thus unburden the server load of freeloading rmt bots are here to stay

instead of asking for allowing VMware and the like you should ask when @Juji thinks the max account restriction can be eased or lifted, maybe he could share how Korea deals with this issue as they have different rules on max account login or even better maybe we will get same system as EU/RU which means you will have to pay for every extra account you log on top of everything else

regardless allowing the use of VMware was an unintended oversight of NC which they're now fixing so just be happy it lasted for as long as it did as you knew very well it broke the rules and of course you can still choose to keep using it but know that it's not hard to detect it's actual use.

You avoid the obvious and try to be self righteous.  I sorry to disagree but you're not going to stop people from login 27 accounts with 9 real hardware PCs/laptops with 3 each.  In the end the people with means are going to get what they want.

I am here only to clarify the WHY single VM, which is not really a third party software - it's on the same level as Microsoft Windows 10, it's an Operating System that L2 client sits on... it does not later L2 client in any way, it does not enhance or get play advantage PvP or Pve adavatange - NOTHING.  It's like an OS L2 clients sits on.

If you want to play the game to interpret VM as a violation of a 3rd party software, why don't you make Windows 10 a violation of a third party software?

Bunch of senseless jealous incompetent whiners.  

Edited August 31, 2020 by GhostintheShell

[mixa]

On 8/30/2020 at 6:02 PM, Chanix said:

We are talking about VM here, ok. You could have said  that at the beginning of this topic, or also take another example. Even though ppl are using it or could use it, do you really think i have an influence on that ? What i am saying is  clear, i specify well  "to my knowledge". I will not deepen my knowledge on this subject any further. I am an engineer on something else but not a system engineer. Ppl are responsible for their actions. Do you think i want ppl to be banned ?  I like Lineage 2, i like transparent things, so the truth, and if you had read my topic better, you would have seen that there is nothing wrong, and false. Do you think NC soft will take the time for this ? Do you think  all the ppl who talk about this topic on the forum are trying to get ppl banned or get banned themselves ? Do you think i'm too specific on the subject ? If NC soft didn't want ppl talking about this topic, we wouldn't discuss that here!

Thank you ! 

The presence of functional or performance problems can be suspected, locally of course. People who are experienced with VM and have very good equipment usually know that.

I don't promote for VM in any way, i just give my opinion, i want to be clear about this.

Thanks !

I don't promote them either. My work does involve a large amount of VMs, but those are run on very very specialized server hardware that really cannot run l2 and not to mention that even if it could, you really don't want to do that... So yea, I don't promote these when it comes to l2, be cause it's circumventing the 3 client limit.

[Vassy]

On 8/29/2020 at 3:53 AM, GhostintheShell said:

And please explain the logic of why 2 laptops running 6 clients is ok but 1 laptop running 3 clients and 3 clients inside a VMware is not ok?  There is no cheating here - there is no botting 3rd party software to take advantage of scripts in PvP battles or even in PvE.  It's just a virtual machine that can easily be replaced with a physical laptop or a PC.  EASILY replaced.

Me and my husband play together l2 from 2 different laptops. I know a lot if ppl who play with their whole family.  It's not possible NCSOFT to make ip limitation because this is absolutely valid scenario of playing the game by the rules . On the other hand with Virtual machines you are talking about multi boxing, a.k.a BOTING. This is against EULA no matter NCSOFT made the automatic macro possible in the game. The 3 boxes per PC is enough gift combined with the looping macro.

It's simple as that.

[RuthlessRock]

On 9/7/2020 at 6:21 AM, Vassy said:

On the other hand with Virtual machines you are talking about multi boxing, a.k.a BOTING. This is against EULA no matter NCSOFT made the automatic macro possible in the game. The 3 boxes per PC is enough gift combined with the looping macro.

It's simple as that.

Dnt talk shit, obviously there is no way to block the ip as you mentioned, it is normal to use more than one computer per ip, and even if they block it, it would just need to contact your operator and request the change of the ip or even change your route, and about boot, this game is 24/7 about booting, multiboxing is also enabled in the game but limited to 3 boxes, they wont ban you because boot/multiboxing get real.

But now installing third part programs to circumvent there yes that is the problem and it goes against the rules, however nobody is punished even though it has been reported for months and even in some cases years, so it is just trash talk, vmware has been blocked, but just like it has many others programs to emulate virtual environment.

On 8/25/2020 at 2:59 PM, Juji said:

We do not support the use of VMWare or related programs. If you are using it to bypass the client limit, then you are in violation of the EULA/ToS.

 

[Vassy]

23 hours ago, RuthlessRock said:

Dnt talk shit, obviously there is no way to block the ip as you mentioned, it is normal to use more than one computer per ip, and even if they block it, it would just need to contact your operator and request the change of the ip or even change your route, and about boot, this game is 24/7 about booting, multiboxing is also enabled in the game but limited to 3 boxes, they wont ban you because boot/multiboxing get real.

But now installing third part programs to circumvent there yes that is the problem and it goes against the rules, however nobody is punished even though it has been reported for months and even in some cases years, so it is just trash talk, vmware has been blocked, but just like it has many others programs to emulate virtual environment.

 

"Don't talk  shit" - excuse me? Did you just attempt to repeat with other words what I've just said 1 post above or I didn't made myself clear enough? 

And I'm not talking about IP ban at all.

[SM-T]

On 25/08/2020 at 11:59 PM, Juji said:

We do not support the use of VMWare or related programs. If you are using it to bypass the client limit, then you are in violation of the EULA/ToS.

juji spoke on this issue.

A change has occurred, so what creates a problem with VM, we always find solutions(sometimes) and the causes by testing things (but i won't say more). When we exceed the limit of clients, there is an impact on game performance. I think this problem has been solved but indirectly. No need to say more or look for more, juji was clear on this.

Thanks !

Edited September 8, 2020 by Chanix

[Draecke]

for the ignorants that keep saying NC will not do anything you might want to reflect on the people that got ban when they decided to take out those players that used the windows user login loop hole

feel free to ask on l2community discord how that went down and ask poster SnowBoard how not detectable VMware is

I really don't care just don't come crying when you get yourself banned

 

[HandsVSkills]

1 hour ago, Draecke said:

for the ignorants that keep saying NC will not do anything you might want to reflect on the people that got ban when they decided to take out those players that used the windows user login loop hole

feel free to ask on l2community discord how that went down and ask poster SnowBoard how not detectable VMware is

I really don't care just don't come crying when you get yourself banned

 

What about other ru bot program why nc doesn’t take any actions ?  

[PhoenixMitra]

Greetings everybody,

Since this thread is now solely being used to promote 3rd party programs with no relation to the Lineage 2 title, which is a violation of our Code of Conduct, and the initial question in this topic has already been addressed by us: 

On 8/25/2020 at 2:59 PM, Juji said:

We do not support the use of VMWare or related programs. If you are using it to bypass the client limit, then you are in violation of the EULA/ToS.

this thread is now being closed, after cleaning it up accordingly.