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HiccUps

Watching Paint Dry.......

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HiccUps    22

Still waiting for a constructive answer from STAFF relative to people's question of what they perceive is (hopefully 'are') the incentive(s) for returning players (or new) to come back or join the game. Unfortunately, no answer has ever been delivered to current and/or potential clients. How hard is it really to expect the PR department to be able to answer such an easy question. Should this not be something that when asked of them, could easily be responded to with an answer v. a 24 hr ban.

Maybe some people could answer in lieu of STAFF, and/or until STAFF would venture into giving people not deserving of any answers (a previous response) a kind word.

To start things off:

1. New players are allowed to chat in-game. (Not available atm).

2.

 

ps. An answer not conducive would be 'not answering thereby pushing people to pass when thinking about logging on....leads to not participating in event....further leads to being further behind.' Try to keep the 'To Do' as positive as possible in an attempt to help with PR. O.o

  

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Aaliyah    2

Reverting all the bs they have been doing since Goddess will make players return.

It's not going to happen but for the sake of discussion.

 

Important changes:

Nerfing drops items/adena on relatively easy content

Buffing L2Store

Destroying old school pvp

Removing Territory War

Limiting resources (eg Gainak)

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Yidao    149

This is what NCKorea does:
http://lineage2.plaync.com/events/2018/180314_puberty

During a one month event they removed the level difference party penalty between lvl 85 and 105, so that a lvl 105 player could powerlevel a freshly Awakened player. In addition to that, players get various 30 day equipment rewards at certain milestones.
As a permanent feature they are now selling Paulina's R99 30 day equipment in the L2Store. One weapon, an armor set or a jewelry set for 2000 Won aka 2 dollars each:
http://lineage2.plaync.com/board/notice/view?articleId=635383
(about 1/3 down the page)

The problem is, this will just boost people into level ranges where they can't do anything without buying Rose Essence and whatnot from the L2Store. Many potential players get disgusted by such obvious con tricks.


What needs really to be done is basically what Aaliyah said - make the game so attractive for low level players that they don't feel any need to level up. Here a few more suggestions:

- Return to the old crafting system, with Animal Bones, Varnish of Purity etc. and get rid of the Crafting Solvent. The current combining/upgrading system for materials is totally unrealistic from a real-life point of view. In the old system new players could have a nice steady income by spoiling Varnish and whatnot. Of course the drop/spoil rates need to be adjusted to pre-Tauti levels. With the upcoming security update there is no excuse any more not to do that (and to permit chatting from lvl 1 on).

- Change the Siege System so that only players up to lvl 84 are permitted on the Gludio Siege Field (no class change permitted), up to lvl 94 at Dion, and up to lvl 104 at Oren, Schuttgart and Innadril. Something similar exists already in Lineage 2 Classic, but there the limitation is by clan level, which is of course open to exploits (seven lvl 105 players making a lvl 5 alt clan).

- Abolish the Kekropus and Adventure Guild quest series, increasing the exp requirements to level up. It must be made absolutely clear to new and returning players that they will never ever catch up to the big ones. Trying to do so will only lead to frustration, financial loss and frustration over the financial loss. People who are not happy hunting Elpies and Keltirs for weeks on end should play a different game.

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HiccUps    22

@Yidao  "Change the Siege System so that only players up to lvl 84 are permitted on the Gludio Siege Field (no class change permitted), up to lvl 94 at Dion, and up to lvl 104 at Oren, Schuttgart and Innadril. Something similar exists already in Lineage 2 Classic, but there the limitation is by clan level, which is of course open to exploits (seven lvl 105 players making a lvl 5 alt clan). "

I've always thought this type of idea was needed in hunting zones: learn to hunt, learn to pvp, and even be able to war with same lvl opponents.......guess I never really thought about its applicability to sieges....but I like it! :) I posted a long time ago that in order to aid in retention and selling an old game to new players, a sub-game aside from the whales had to be created. Let the idiocy of the non-existent balancing, rules continue - let them have fun with their dragon weaps etc. Theoretically, there can be numerous sub-games where player retention would benefit given fair hunting, rewards, and pvp.

Relative to 105s lvling lwr levels, maybe MS was different than Nova, but only 1 person in Nova helped lvl new members; hence, other than 105s who came from other servers, no new player who wanted pvp really stayed. Ppl were nice for the most part, but the 'been there, done it, burnt out' excuse will never help them grow. But, the lvl caps in sieges and field hunting is kinda cool if it were ever implemented.

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Yidao    149

On February 21 it was changed in Korea so that characters also get exp/SP/drops when they kill monsters much higher than themselves. The old 10 levels difference/red monster name penalty does not apply over there any more; now there is no more upper level difference penalty:
http://lineage2.plaync.com/board/update/view?articleId=633357
February 21 is precisely our cut-off point, so this should be included in the upcoming patch:
https://eu.4gameforum.com/threads/656429/

Of course such things are easy to be removed for the overseas version. But if that change should be implemented over here, it would mean that if we get the Korean event with no level difference party penalty (or a permanent suchlike setting) the Draecke analogues could powerlevel new clan members in Superion while doing their regular Faction stuff. If you hunt with a Buffer and Tank anyway, one additional "apprentice" parked in a safe corner won't really drain that much exp from you. Here on Naia I see people from Rejzovo, a big Czecho-Slovakian clan, sometimes accompanied by DragonHunters, who are allied with them, in mid-90s hunting grounds, obviously not on macro but real players. So some powerleveling beyong raid boss farming seems to be already going on. With a slight adjustment of the game mechanics, this could be built upon. Especially since this already exists in Korea. The code has already been written, Neutron just has to activate it at NCWest.

As far as the level limitation for hunting zones is concerned, that would also be fairly easy to implement. Hunting zones are clearly defined areas - when you check "Show Region" in your Options interface you get an on-screen notification when you cross the border to a new zone. And the developers have already set certain level ranges for those zones, like you can see in the table for the hunting grounds in Aden Territory here:
http://lineage2.power.plaync.com/wiki/아덴+영지#hd20557
Add to the border-crossing notification a big on-screen warning like "You are entering a prohibited sector", and if the player doesn't heed the warning, teleport him at a certain distance in (200 units or whatever, so that Archers can't just shoot from near the border at lowbies) back to a certain distance out. If you define only an upper but not a lower level limit for the hunting zones, lowbies could still go to higher zones to get powerleveled or, to a certain degree, swarm and overwhelm solitary hunters from an enemy clan :D

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Rlt    1

Yidao, no offense but you have no idea about what is happening. Instead of returning to the old ways, you might wanna search what instant gratification in society means and how the society changed the game, and why we cant go back due to the changes in the system.Things cant go back because the people playing the game now dont have the same mentality that was preGOD. In simple terms, even if someone from ncsoft would try implementing something like it used to be, that will result in a failure. And nobody likes a failure ;) 

P.S. How many of the current people can and are willing to handle a 48 hours epic fight like baium used to be or a 20 hours grind in pagan for 1% at lvl 79  ? 

Edited by Rlt

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Yidao    149

I know what instant gratification is :)

The question is, by what do people get gratified? NCsoft is basically dangling a carrot in front of new players' noses, insinuating that if they only spend enough in the L2Store they can level up (in Fishing Events, with Party Cakes or whatever) and actually engage in PvP if they just gamble enough to get a +10 Shirt. In reality this is a castle in the sky, bordering on fraud, what I called a "con trick" in my first post. A new player will never ever catch up with the established whales, no matter how much he or she spends, simply because while he spends 1000 dollars, the old players have already spent those 1000 dollars and are now spending 1000 dollars on top of that.

To say it clearly again - you will not find gratification by trying to catch up.

What HiccUps and I are suggesting is to provide to new and returning players "safe spaces" where they can actually find gratification, without having their fun ruined by some smurf in shiny armor who kills the Boss they have been working on since half an hour just because he can. Simply put, NCsoft is at present selling the illusion of gratification, while we are suggesting the sell the real thing :P


@Hicc:
While you are desperately trying to elicit a staff response, Fragola, the Community Manager at Innova, is working on methods to lure in old and new players since several weeks. They are of course also trying to get design changes implemented, but that's a long and slow process:
http://boards.rochand.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=407&start=2170#p38181
(DIL, Neutron's counterpart at Innova, steps into the discussion two posts further down)

In that respect they are in the same situation as NCWest. What Fragola is working on is things they can do on their own, i.e. mainly propaganda. Look who got appointed Moderator over there:
https://eu.4gameforum.com/threads/657225/#post-9156586

xD

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Aaliyah    2

The attitude of a returning player (me):

The reason I am staying is because I can find parties to do dailies and even parties to party xp on open areas which I prefer.

Dungeons simulator aspect of the game is bs. Dungeons could be limited (Choose x amount per day) but get good item rewards (rewards depending on the instance).

How I see pvp: It's a joke and a really bad one. I saw recently Molensa vs VNDragon on youtube. Most of the time I couldn't tell if VNDragon is a Mage or Tank. Seriously a rogue fully geared stabbing a Mage who is paralyzed or stunned for so long and it's like stabbing a fully geared Tank from the front.

L2Store:Selling xp boosts: Ok fine.

L2Store: Selling potions/eva's rune etc that add power: Ok w/e. At least they can't be used in oly (most of them).

L2Store selling power: Just sell items that add 1% boost - this would be acceptable. Currently there are ~10 items each one increasing the power by 12 to 30%.

I am not going to spend any more. I spent in the past but I didn't expect this circus L2Store fiesta. It never ends. It's so funny that they keep adding item slots and then items with item slots. In the end L2Store items will be more than traditional item slots (armor+weapon+jewels).

If someone spends money he is just falling in a bottomless pit. I am not as stupid as NCSoft wants their player-base to be.

Edited by Aaliyah

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Yidao    149
45 minutes ago, Aaliyah said:

It's so funny that they keep adding item slots and then items with item slots ...

Then you are definitely not going to like the Artifact Book that was introduced in Korea on May 23:
http://lineage2.plaync.com/board/update/view?articleId=634946


Now they even have a separate User Interface for all the items with item slots:

3dtdZTK.png
http://boards.rochand.com/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=2123&start=40#p38033

:D

  • Haha 1

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Nsidia    0

"It must be made absolutely clear to new and returning players that they will never ever catch up to the big ones."

How is this going to make the game more attractive. "hey come one in but you'll never reach the top, have fun killing million keltirs"

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Yidao    149

Because it avoids disappointment and negative propaganda on Reddit, massivelyop.com, mmorpg.com etc. :)

Advertisement and marketing are all very nice, but then the game itself must actually deliver, otherwise the advertisements are perceived as misleading, and people who feel misled tend to voice their discontent loudly. Maybe you remember that some months ago, when an English version of Lineage 2 Revolution was launched, there was an influx of new players who also wanted to try out the PC version of the game. But those new players just made one or two forum posts, then they were never heard of again. So, players were lured in, but the game was not captivating enough resp. bringing too much frustration to retain them.

To say it again, unlike the servers are wiped and restarted with a monthly subscription and no L2Store whatsoever - which will never happen - new players will not catch up, no matter how much money they spend. And even if you have such a business model, like for example Lineage 2 Classic at Innova, there will be dedicated Russian players who play their clan characters in shifts 24/7 and you, Nsidia, will still not catch up That is just so and insinuating anything else is bordering on fraud.

Maybe you will understand better what HiccUps and I suggest if we call it "caste separation":
The old players can continue to spend hundreds of dollars per month in the L2Store and quarreling over Aden Castle (in other words, NCsoft doesn't lose anything but can keep on milking them), while new and returning players get the instant gratification of seeing a spoiled Keltir turn blue, can experience the deep satisfaction of having reached lvl 5 and learning their first skills after having killed a million Keltirs, while at the same time being able to sell the spoiled Animal Bones to high-level players who use them to craft D-Grade equipment, accumulating adena for teleports or next-level equipment in the process, while PvP-ing over the Keltirs with their fellow lowbies all the time.

If seeing a spoiled Keltir turn blue does not give you a nice warm feeling inside, you can either play a different game or terrorize Neutron until he introduces the Lineage 2 Arena at NCWest, a kind of MOBA version of the game where everybody starts out at lvl 0 and with No-Grade equipment but can upgrade quickly during a match, getting reset to lvl 0 after the mission is accomplished:
http://boards.rochand.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=1639#p33308
http://boards.rochand.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=2149#p38084

Edited by Yidao

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