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42 minutes ago, beleaua said:

Not only that is unethical but claiming the moral higher ground over GM's decisions is pure hypocrisy when you yourself made a request in the first place, to have your item reverted because you felt cheated. In terms of morality, a decent player would never make such a request in the first place and would have assumed his actions. I guess we're so far ahead in this game of lying to ourselves that we don't see the obvious anymore.

I get the point you're making but what's the difference in the ask given in this scenario (10 days prior to an event you didn't have details for you made a decision) vs going into a store, buying an item, having it go on sale a few days later and asking customer service for a refund of the difference in price? 

Is the store required to honor it? No, but most stores do. I don't think the GMs were wrong in their initial logic about the question nor do I think it was an inappropriate question to ask. On the same token I wouldn't have felt they were in the wrong if they denied the request. Both decisions have merit given the situation.

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Hello all, Firstly, I want to apologize for the delay in reply to this thread. We've been following your responses closely and further discussing the matter in question internally. As the OP righ

The CMs when they finally come in on Monday.

So you and your clan had intention to make a stage 3 weapon over countless hours of grinding and then once it was completed you and or your clan regretted upgrading a weapon once an event came out for

25 minutes ago, GentlemanJim said:

I agree with Truffle, as long as the offer is for a limited time.  It's not a perfect solution, but it's the best I've heard.

In a world of imperfect solutions you minimize impact. If one person was infected, let that one person remain infected. Quarantine all others.

If what I'm hearing is true, the GMs have been giving above and beyond treatment to these powerful clans for a very long time. Benefits that they should not have received. Benefits that no one else in the player base has received. Your solution -- the gentleman Truffle's solution -- does not resolve that. That is the issue. And it needs to end now. 

Edited by SinPalabras
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I dont have a dragon weapon, so how many are there?

And only those people get that treatment?

Your suggestion is b.s. , they would need to make the weapon exchange with red libra free to make it so everyone is involved... then add those refunds to everyone thats used it so far...

Fairness at a price.. what are you willing to pay?

That should be ncsoft logo.

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11 minutes ago, Victra said:

I get the point you're making but what's the difference in the ask given in this scenario (10 days prior to an event you didn't have details for you made a decision) vs going into a store, buying an item, having it go on sale a few days later and asking customer service for a refund of the difference in price? 

Is the store required to honor it? No, but most stores do. I don't think the GMs were wrong in their initial logic about the question nor do I think it was an inappropriate question to ask. On the same token I wouldn't have felt they were in the wrong if they denied the request. Both decisions have merit given the situation.

That is partially true. Yes, on a case by case basis most stores will honor the sale price. However, not all stores do, and some of the biggest retailers -- the Best Buys and Amazons of the world -- have some of the most draconian return policies after the first couple of times that you take advantage of their refund/adjustment service. It is not uncommon for retailers to ban customers for future refunds and adjustments. Perhaps that's something that NCWest should consider when it comes to support tickets of this nature? Who knows. What I do know is that issues like this will certainly trigger that line of thinking. Any immediate remedy now to make one player or a small coterie of players happy now very well may screw the majority of the player base that makes up this game (contrary to many beliefs espoused here and elsewhere) down the road.

Edited by SinPalabras
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5 minutes ago, SinPalabras said:

That is partially true. Yes, on a case by case basis most stores will honor the sale price. However, not all stores do, and some of the biggest retailers -- the Best Buys and Amazons of the world -- have some of the most draconian return policies after the first couple of times that you take advantage of their refund/adjustment service. It is not uncommon for retailers to ban customers for future refunds and adjustments. Perhaps that's something that NCWest should consider when it comes to support tickets of this nature? Who knows. What I do know is that issues like this will certainly trigger that line of thinking. Any immediate remedy now to make one player or a small coterie of players happy now very well may screw the majority of the player base that makes up this game (contrary to many beliefs espoused here and elsewhere) down the road.

I said in the post you quoted directly they don't have to honor it but most do. 

Amazon does not honor sales from different retailers because their prices are set based on rules involving 3rd party vendors using them as a middle man to sell items. Amazon does not dictate the price of the vast majority of their items therefore cannot adjust pricing autonomously.

Amazon bans people when they start having a pattern of returning items that causes motives becomes suspect due to the volume of returns.

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1 minute ago, Victra said:

I said in the post you quoted directly they don't have to honor it but most do. 

Amazon does not honor sales from different retailers because their prices are set based on rules involving 3rd party vendors using them as a middle man to sell items. Amazon does not dictate the price of the vast majority of their items therefore cannot adjust pricing autonomously.

Amazon bans people when they start having a pattern of returning items that causes motives becomes suspect due to the volume of returns.

The "pattern" apparently is rather arbitrary with Amazon. Ditto with Best Buy. I recall stories of as little as 3 returns of any item in a given period triggering notice. But this isn't necessarily about those retailers. At least they honor their policies and their consumers trust them to do so. This is about NCWest and its GMs, who apparently do not.

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Maybe I'm grossly underestimating our in-game colleagues, but I'd like to think that the top players and clans will be just fine without all of the additional beyond the pale "support" that they're getting from the GMs. The crème will rise to the top regardless. That's always been their onus.

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The history behind the griefing is 100% irrelevant. Griefing, PKing, Training, Killing, KSing is all part of the game that we all used to love and enjoy. I used to train people all the time in the catas, ban me. I have PK'ed 100's if not 1000's of toons, ban me. I have griefed and smack talked many many people over the years, ban me. I have killed 1000's ban me. I KS mobs from people for shits and giggles, ban me. GM's have to pull their heads out of their asses before the community actually does something about it.

To the GM's even though we all know they don't listen at all: Have you heard of a thing called customer satisfaction? Have you seen your Better Business Bureau feedback? Not the rating, the FEEDBACK. Its 100% pure complaints about NCSoft and their shitty acting towards customers. 75 reviews, 75 negative, 0 positive, 0 neutral. WTF kind of business are you running? Even the most hated company in America (Comcast) could run this shit better than you. Between your dreadful customer service, outlandish prices, horredous GM's, abhorrent community listening skills, its no wonder everyone hates you. DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT FOR bleepS SAKE!!!

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I also don't agree with peoples sentiment that it only affects me either, hundreds of people helped me in gathering the necessary things over an entire year. Porting into dragons, gathering materials, etc, etc. The entire clan is upset about it. The weapon is a result of countless and I mean COUNTLESS hours of an entire clan/ally and heavy investment from me. 90% of the people posting against me hate me or are enemies (100% biased opinions). The problem with this is NCsoft "fixed" one mistake with another when the clear best way to go about it is to give everyone the same opportunities because remember this is their fault not mine or my clans which are being punished.

Edited by Truffle
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5 hours ago, Truffle said:

I also don't agree with peoples sentiment that it only affects me either, hundreds of people helped me in gathering the necessary things over an entire year. Porting into dragons, gathering materials, etc, etc. The entire clan is upset about it. The weapon is a result of countless and I mean COUNTLESS hours of an entire clan/ally and heavy investment from me. 90% of the people posting against me hate me or are enemies (100% biased opinions). The problem with this is NCsoft "fixed" one mistake with another when the clear best way to go about it is to give everyone the same opportunities because remember this is their fault not mine or my clans which are being punished.

All that time spent gathering mats and all those people you implied in your quest, yet you didn't take five minutes to think about the weapon you wanted to create? Fists? Really?

5 hours ago, Auburn said:

The history behind the griefing is 100% irrelevant. Griefing, PKing, Training, Killing, KSing is all part of the game that we all used to love and enjoy. I used to train people all the time in the catas, ban me. I have PK'ed 100's if not 1000's of toons, ban me. I have griefed and smack talked many many people over the years, ban me. I have killed 1000's ban me. I KS mobs from people for shits and giggles, ban me. GM's have to pull their heads out of their asses before the community actually does something about it.

To the GM's even though we all know they don't listen at all: Have you heard of a thing called customer satisfaction? Have you seen your Better Business Bureau feedback? Not the rating, the FEEDBACK. Its 100% pure complaints about NCSoft and their shitty acting towards customers. 75 reviews, 75 negative, 0 positive, 0 neutral. WTF kind of business are you running? Even the most hated company in America (Comcast) could run this shit better than you. Between your dreadful customer service, outlandish prices, horredous GM's, abhorrent community listening skills, its no wonder everyone hates you. DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT FOR bleepS SAKE!!!

In their defense, there isn't much that they can do on their own. Read some of the employees reviews, which you can find them available on specific websites. Some and more recent example here: https://imgur.com/a/dTwBoUL

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22 minutes ago, beleaua said:

All that time spent gathering mats and all those people you implied in your quest, yet you didn't take five minutes to think about the weapon you wanted to create? Fists? Really?

In their defense, there isn't much that they can do on their own. Read some of the employees reviews, which you can find them available on specific websites. Some and more recent example here: https://imgur.com/a/dTwBoUL

Lol from reading those someone at NCWest needs to grow a pair and stand up to NCKorea. All they need to do is drink a nice big cup of Man the bleep Up, grab their Scrot and say no. Yes men annoy me.

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10 hours ago, Truffle said:

I also don't agree with peoples sentiment that it only affects me either, hundreds of people helped me in gathering the necessary things over an entire year. Porting into dragons, gathering materials, etc, etc. The entire clan is upset about it. The weapon is a result of countless and I mean COUNTLESS hours of an entire clan/ally and heavy investment from me. 90% of the people posting against me hate me or are enemies (100% biased opinions). The problem with this is NCsoft "fixed" one mistake with another when the clear best way to go about it is to give everyone the same opportunities because remember this is their fault not mine or my clans which are being punished.

So you and your clan had intention to make a stage 3 weapon over countless hours of grinding and then once it was completed you and or your clan regretted upgrading a weapon once an event came out for a CHANCE to receive a low grade dragon weapon. It isn't the GMs fault your clan focused on to create a stage 3 weapon instead of either making a new one or upgrading a different weapon.

This should be on you and the clan as it is stated there were countless hours that went into farming and no one once said "Hey lets make a new weapon or upgrade someone else instead of make one guy stronger"?

Like seriously you can complain all you want about GMs but at the end of the it falls on you and your clan to use your problem solving skills when deciding on a big investment.

 

Have A Good Day.

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I am looking forward for a Red Libra type NPC where all players with Dragon Claw Weapons either could downgrade or make an even exchange at it with a small fee. This is the only way to enshure both sides are happy. The upcomming update 105-110 will be much more enjoyable to play in PvE for all with such helpfull friends with helpfull weapons. More players will be spending money to get to 110 no problem.

Meanwhile I would obligate all NCwest Lineage 2 Staff to start a Character of their own and start play the game themselves. It's the only way to understand the mind of your customers. It's the only way to stop awkward situations before they get out of control in the future. All because you got knowledge and better know-how of the game in general. You will find more problems in-game by playing then reading it from the Community itself. It will be more enjoyable for both sides, if you did play the game yourself more often.

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20 hours ago, SinPalabras said:

If what I'm hearing is true, the GMs have been giving above and beyond treatment to these powerful clans for a very long time. Benefits that they should not have received. Benefits that no one else in the player base has received. Your solution -- the gentleman Truffle's solution -- does not resolve that. That is the issue. And it needs to end now. 

This part x 100000000000000!!!! >:(>:(>:( 

I know my little USD doesn't matter all that much, but fair is fair. Any time GMs are ready to restore my overenchant fails for weapons and t-shirts like they did for others, I'm ready. Just deposit in my WH. PM here or email me. I will give you characters and accounts details. 

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9 hours ago, Jishuer said:

So you and your clan had intention to make a stage 3 weapon over countless hours of grinding and then once it was completed you and or your clan regretted upgrading a weapon once an event came out for a CHANCE to receive a low grade dragon weapon. It isn't the GMs fault your clan focused on to create a stage 3 weapon instead of either making a new one or upgrading a different weapon.

This should be on you and the clan as it is stated there were countless hours that went into farming and no one once said "Hey lets make a new weapon or upgrade someone else instead of make one guy stronger"?

Like seriously you can complain all you want about GMs but at the end of the it falls on you and your clan to use your problem solving skills when deciding on a big investment.

 

Have A Good Day.

You're a clown, it's 1% chance for a dragon weapon to drop even less chance to get the one you want. We had no other weapon. Also, when it comes to stage 3 you have to have an individual with massive resources which I have and on top of that a clan wide effort. You are pretty stupid and the nova clowns who favorite it are too. The reason NCsoft did it is because it was days after they announced the waterfall of dragon fragments, I know you will simply ignore this cause you're biased and clearly a Nova forum account. :) 

Edited by Truffle
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Anyone disagreeing with Truffle or any other MS member is clearly a Nova alt ;)

Asking for priveliged treatment due to l2store promotions or the like is not something limited to only you, everyone wants to know in advance what kind of store promotions we will get & what type of rewards in detail for precisely what you're saying BUT as nobody is being given this info or the like neither should they have allowed such for you retroactively.

Having said that as many before me already pointed out: all everyone else demanded was to receive the same treatment you did or a reversal of yours which is only normal, pandora's box situation imo really..

 

 

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21 hours ago, Welcomeback said:

All i know is Truffle is the best player ever, GM's has to do anything to keep him on game or NC will fail and no more game for anyone. Who spend more money on this than him?

 

49 minutes ago, Truffle said:

Also, when it comes to stage 3 you have to have an individual with massive resources which I have

Things have been fixed in a way Jordan doesn't agree with.

My questions are

how many months ms clan invested in looking after those 120 claws? how many players went after those 120 claws? What did they get for those 120 claws?

who gave to Jordan those 120 claws? [pep bought them from max and he's free to do what the heck he wants]

before deciding to downgrade the fists to stage 2 did Jordan asked who gave him those 120 claws yes or not?

I'm a total random on naia pm for ingame nick since it can be different [as soon as i hit 100 i delete the toon]

 

 

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19 hours ago, Truffle said:

The problem with this is NCsoft "fixed" one mistake with another when the clear best way to go about it is to give everyone the same opportunities because remember this is their fault not mine or my clans which are being punished.

I agree with him here

Truffle upgraded his weapon by own risk, but i dont see any reason to dont ask mats back like he did, I would do the same if I was a DW owner... but if they did this to him, they ofc should do to everyone who want, but its not his fault if they dont IMO.

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1 hour ago, Truffle said:

You're a clown, it's 1% chance for a dragon weapon to drop even less chance to get the one you want. We had no other weapon. Also, when it comes to stage 3 you have to have an individual with massive resources which I have and on top of that a clan wide effort. You are pretty stupid and the nova clowns who favorite it are too. The reason NCsoft did it is because it was days after they announced the waterfall of dragon fragments, I know you will simply ignore this cause you're biased and clearly a Nova forum account. :) 

Bro, I very much dislike Nova. I have fought them ever since they transferred back onto Sayha, then Chronos. I fought these guys for many many years. What I also dislike is people who think they deserve special treatment based on how much money they spend or time that they put into the game when it is their own fault for making a particular mistake. Get over yourself and stop spreading hate.

I know you are pretty upset for spending the time and effort to making your stage 3 claws but instead of again blaming everyone how about you log into the game and use some problem solving skills to advance forward and stop crying about what has happened.

Good Luck.

Edited by Jishuer
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