Archer nerf Feedback

[LordDragnil]

5 hours ago, Ambicija said:

Game start after 110 (at this moment 112-114)

Who that said? What kind of game? Is the game gets better?

"you must have items minimum for 3000-5000$. Till this moment... all your experience just "im see in youtube".I think time to stop this discussion - my boxes higer then 1100 place, and im play just sometimes - have job, prival life."

You need even more money to spend if you have a few playable toons.

You need even more time to spend if you test and play different classes.

I am solo player. I prefer to play whenever and whatever I like. That's why I throwed my money not in only one character, but in my own mini party. They might not look so impressive separately, but they work great as a team. 

Maybe, 300 characters on the server reached 110, all other (mostly) their toons. I mentioned it before. So what? It does not make that people smarter. 

If I could advise you, and you would like to hear this advice, then I would say: "first play with another class, and then talk about it."

PS.

Now you reached 110. How do you feel? You said, you're lazy to play. 

Me too, I'm lazy to play, cuz game activities are boring hamster wheel. But I no need 110 to realise that. 

[TDxDan]

The only thing that gave this Game Activity was PVP back in the Day but since everyone is oneshotting each other nowadays it is totally Pointless! It became Monster Hunter 2.0 Afk Simulator. 

Reaching the Top and becoming Highest lvl or 1 of its kind doesnt mean anything nowadays except for the Fact that you gave Ncsoft Plenty of Love Via MasterCard. 

[AnotherMentee]

And by the power of the internet here we have these tests from barely 2 years ago.
https://eu.4gameforum.com/threads/659638/
https://eu.4gameforum.com/threads/659737/
First tests the influence of DEX on skill critical rate. The second the effect of buffs/items.

From the results we see that an archer with 80 DEX has 20% skill critical rate. That in October of 2018. So today we can say that this same archer have 10% skill critical rate.
101 DEX had 27% so now have 13,5%

Applying the best case scenario of a top geared archer (101 DEX 27% base chance before 13.5% now):
Dragon bow (stg 1-2): 30% + Pom: 25% + +10: Cancer 10%, +10 Balance Art.: 10% + Superior Critical Arrow: 10% + AP: 10% = 95% total increase bonus
13.5% * 1.95 = 26.3% Skill critical rate.
If you add Abundance lv4 (20%) that goes to 13.5% * 2.15 = 29% Skill critical rate.
If the archer is Moonlight Sentinel you can add another 15%(101 skill) on top of that -> 13.5% * 2.3 = 31.5% Skill critical rate

So a fully activated MoonLight Sentinel with a Dragon bow of Stg. 1 or 2 and all the gear mentioned above and 101 Dex had 63% of skill critical chance.
Now it has 31.5%

. A percentage lower than what an 3 day Exalted gear Feoh has.

Now lets take a mid geared Ghost Sentinel(majority) with 91 DEX (23.4% base chance before, 11.7% now):
R110 bow with Lv8 Hunter: 13% + Pom: 25% + +7: Cancer 7%, +4 Balance Art: 3% + Superior Critical Arrow: 10% + AP: 10% = 68% total increase bonus
11.7% * 1.68 = 19.65% Skill critical rate.
If you add Abundance lv1 (15%) that goes to 11.7% * 1.83 = 21,44% Skill critical rate.

So a fully activated MID geared archer had 42.88% chance of critical. 4 out 10 simultaneous targets when lucky that much targets at once.
Now it has 21.44%

. Barely 2 out of 10 mobs when lucky to hit that much targets at once. A chance way way lower than any 3 day Exalted gear Feoh.

Lets not forget that on top of that, items that boost skill critical DAMAGE are waaaaaaaaaay more expensive than items that give magical critical damage.
Take rings for example. Paulinas ring its a free 15% magic critical dmg ring. Add a 3b queen ant on top of that you have 30% already.
If you want 30% skill critical damage on an archer you need a +6 Angel Ring (60b) and a +3 Dragon Ring (100b+). But uou can get away by buying 500nc coin every month for the 30 day r99 paulina ring that gives 15% skill critical dmg.

For the sake of the exalted archers (76 DEX 9.5%):

Superior Critical Arrow: 10% + AP: 10% = 20% total increase bonus
9.5% * 1.2 = 11.4% Skill critical rate.

LMAO. 1 out of 10 mobs on an aoe if lucky enough to hit that many on places like blazing swamp. And that's if they are smart enough to choose the correct AP's in the first place.

There you go. Shitty nerf.
Revert it now.
 

 

 

Edited November 10, 2020 by AnotherMentee

[NejJim]

On 2020-11-08 at 11:07 PM, Slycutter said:

You don't understand math numbskull.  5% is a 50% base reduction.

K.. you awesome wiz... explain this.. A Yul that have 95% crit rate on AoE skill before nerf.. gets what after nerf.. and then lookup if that number is less than the Feoh cap..

Throwing comments like that is just ignorant!

[NejJim]

If you didnt get it.. he refer to that regardless of the % of skill crit rates base.. Yul can still build up way above the Feoh cap!

[AnotherMentee]

2 minutes ago, NejJim said:

K.. you awesome wiz... explain this.. A Yul that have 95% crit rate on AoE skill before nerf.. gets what after nerf.. and then lookup if that number is less than the Feoh cap..

Throwing comments like that is just ignorant!

Show me how you got that 95% value.

[NejJim]

Just now, AnotherMentee said:

Show me how you got that 95% value.

Check the following post i made

[AnotherMentee]

1 minute ago, NejJim said:

Check the following post i made

Link to that post please.

And BTW, these are real tests made by GM's:
https://eu.4gameforum.com/threads/659638/
https://eu.4gameforum.com/threads/659737/

Theres no way anomore, even without the nerf to achive 95% skill critical rate, and that was with the best gear/buff/passives possible.

Edited November 10, 2020 by AnotherMentee

[NejJim]

Just now, AnotherMentee said:

Link to that post please

ehm.. k.. i explain more clearly..

Before nerf.. the base crit rate on 2 AoE Yul skills were 10%. With proper enchant/items/buffs.. you could reach close to 100% on those skills (all skills)

But after nerf.. it got 5% base (only on 2 skills).. and this is what the crying is about.. the argument was that Feoh can (at this point) NEVER go above 33.4% crit rate (no matter itemst/buffs/enchant combo).. but Yul can still reach way above Feoh's magic number 33.4%

 

[NejJim]

6 minutes ago, AnotherMentee said:

Link to that post please.

And BTW, these are real tests made by GM's:
https://eu.4gameforum.com/threads/659638/
https://eu.4gameforum.com/threads/659737/

Theres no way anomore, even without the nerf to achive 95% skill critical rate, and that was with the best gear/buff/passives possible.

and if you check... its 2018...  just add artifacts and some agathions (to mention a few changes added) and you will see huge diff

[NejJim]

Another note on that experiment.. was to establish base crit % depending on Dex.. so no rings or other blings, just skills. Later same but added PoM and DW and some bling (Abu4).. you reached 100% with just 110 Dex. So to do that today.. YES you can reach above 100% in theory.

Edited November 10, 2020 by NejJim

[iHyperlite]

stacked dw yuls can still break the 107 dex wall and hit 100% skill crit rate after this nerf.

Edited November 10, 2020 by iHyperlite

[NejJim]

2 minutes ago, iHyperlite said:

stacked dw yuls can still break the 107 dex wall and hit 100% skill crit rate after this nerf.

Yeah.. this is what im saying.. I'm not taking sides regarding Yul VS Feoh.. just mentioning that the cap on Feoh is a stuck solid CAP!

So the point regarding skill % rate is insignificant here, when it comes to compare with Feoh.

[iHyperlite]

1 minute ago, NejJim said:

Yeah.. this is what im saying.. I'm not taking sides regarding Yul VS Feoh.. just mentioning that the cap on Feoh is a stuck solid CAP!

So the point regarding skill % rate is insignificant here, when it comes to compare with Feoh.

i wonder which would cause more uproar. 

a 50% reduction to the base skill crit dmg of these 2 aoe skills or a 50% skill crit rate cap on all archer skills...

[NejJim]

4 minutes ago, iHyperlite said:

i wonder which would cause more uproar. 

a 50% reduction to the base skill crit dmg of these 2 aoe skills or a 50% skill crit rate cap on all archer skills...

Actually hit me.. ppl are missing that its only the skill % that is nerfed.. ergo.. the Dex value are not.. that meaning with the % from skill + Dex % influence.. make the base crit%

So a skill with Dex incl.. had 20%.. gets 15% and not 10% (just a rough example)

Edited November 10, 2020 by NejJim

[AnotherMentee]

41 minutes ago, iHyperlite said:

stacked dw yuls can still break the 107 dex wall and hit 100% skill crit rate after this nerf.

Show me your math.

I'll show you mine.
107 DEX: 33.7% before, 16.86 now.

Dragon bow (STG 1-2): 30%
Pom: 25%
+10: Cancer 10%
+10 Balance Art.: 10% 
Superior Critical Arrow: 10% 
AP: 10%
Abundance 4: 20%
101 skill from MoonLight Sentinel: 15%
Total 130% increase.

Meaning: 16.85 * 2.3(130%) = 43.35% skill critical chance for the aoes for END GAME STACKED ARCHERS

And PLEASE, dont tell me you;re adding % on top of %.. thats not how it works. lol

43 minutes ago, NejJim said:

Another note on that experiment.. was to establish base crit % depending on Dex.. so no rings or other blings, just skills. Later same but added PoM and DW and some bling (Abu4).. you reached 100% with just 110 Dex. So to do that today.. YES you can reach above 100% in theory.

Those values are before the nerf. So now its half of that for aoe's. -50%
They accounting Song of Assault that used to give 15% skill critical damage. Now it doesn't. Also adding 15% from the Moonlight Sentinel 101 skill, when majority of archers are Ghost Sentinels. So from those two you can remove 30% already. -30%
It's also using a Lv3 Dragon Bow. None in Chronos so far. -20%
Add 10% from from +10 artifact not accounted for in the test.

Thats -90% already from that 2018 test to todays reality.

There's absolutely nothing available in game that can make the best theorical geared archer reach 100% skill critical chance.
Now imagine the other 99% of the archers.

29 minutes ago, NejJim said:

Actually hit me.. ppl are missing that its only the skill % that is nerfed.. ergo.. the Dex value are not.. that meaning with the % from skill + Dex % influence.. make the base crit%

So a skill with Dex incl.. had 20%.. gets 15% and not 10% (just a rough example)

Whatever amount DEX was increasing from base, the end result will also be half as the base was cut in half.

Edited November 10, 2020 by AnotherMentee

[NejJim]

3 minutes ago, AnotherMentee said:

Whatever amount DEX was increasing from base, the end result will also be half as the base was cut in half.

This is not true... If the skill is 10% Then the  Dex influence scale ontop of that.. If the skill is 0.1% then it would only be the Dex making the crit rate base.

Meaning the Dex have much bigger influence now when they made it 5%

[AnotherMentee]

4 minutes ago, NejJim said:

This is not true... If the skill is 10% Then the  Dex influence scale ontop of that.. If the skill is 0.1% then it would only be the Dex making the crit rate base.

Meaning the Dex have much bigger influence now when they made it 5%

DEX multiply the base critical chance by a factor.
DEX does not add some value on top of base critical chance.

Edited November 10, 2020 by AnotherMentee

[iHyperlite]

15 minutes ago, AnotherMentee said:

Show me your math.

Blah blah

Meaning: 16.85 * 2.3(130%) = 43.35% skill critical chance for the aoes for END GAME STACKED ARCHERS

 Blah blah

My 107 dual gs crits more than 43% of the time on white mobs, and I have not awesome yul gear. 

 

I don't know what to tell you. 

[NejJim]

1 minute ago, AnotherMentee said:

DEX increases the base critical chance.
DEX does not adds on top of base critical chance.

and WHERE??? do you see the constant value dep on Dex on that graph?

If it was based on 10% skill crit rate.. and the Dex changes.. then it would increase with a constant value.. right?

So at 61 Dex you have 13.6% and at 121 35.4%.. now tell me.. how would it be based ONLY on the 10% skill crit rate decreasing to 5% make it half.. when its not even a constant change when Dex increase.

Also in your calc.. you actually saying a stacked Yul not using rings?

[NejJim]

3 minutes ago, iHyperlite said:

My 107 dual gs crits more than 43% of the time on white mobs, and I have not awesome yul gear. 

 

I don't know what to tell you. 

He is calculating that the Quick Shot in the example has 10% and Dex is a constant value added to the crit rate.. that the graph proves it really IS NOT!

So he believes if that Quick Shot nerfes to 5%.. EVERYTHING in that graph gets halved.. this is simply not true. Dex influence on crit rate is bigger than the skill value!

[Uskglass]

The thing I object to is that they design a class a particular way. Then encourage you to boost that class, often with a lot hard earned money or precious time, then just when you think your getting somewhere they move the goal posts.This aspect for any class and player is unfair, because they should have given more consideration to the items they make available. In my opinion it would be better to focus on improving other classes rather than nerfing but unfortunately they are too lazy and complacent to care.

[NejJim]

Quote

36 minutes ago, AnotherMentee said:

Meaning: 16.85 * 2.3(130%) = 43.35% skill critical chance for the aoes for END GAME STACKED ARCHERS

It's also using a Lv3 Dragon Bow. None in Chronos so far. -20%
Add 10% from from +10 artifact not accounted for in the test.

 

K.. even if that calc is not accurate.. but by your measures.. its still passed the Feoh 33.4% cap

-20%??? lvl1 have 30%

Again.. so just added artifact but no Yul using rings.. Also if you read again.. i said in THEORY!

Yes not too many Moonlight.. doesnt change the fact that Yul can exceed the Feohs CAP!

[NejJim]

Before off to bed.. your calc is off.. you dont make it 130% = 2.3.. since you like that example as a reference.. you should also use same calculation. Meaning you need to multiply for each seperately.. and in your example would then give a value of 55.32%

Have to correct myself.. its skill crit dmg rings Yul uses.. so remove all remarks regarding rings

Edited November 10, 2020 by NejJim

[voo]

this nerf affects all different. I have 4archers,some with amazing gear and some with just freebie gear. I have done multiple tests and the best I can calculate is a 20% nerf on xp for my best archer.  However,this nerf messes up the xp for parties/supports.  I no longer see a benefit for any strong dd to be in pt.  so juji nerfed archers but in effect nerfed all xp in pt.

also, big spenders in this game dont care for their tens of thousands spent be rewarded with nerfs or changes or no rewards. so celebrate the nerfs, another way of game taking money.