TheHaggarDagger Posted November 6, 2020 Share Posted November 6, 2020 (edited) It's about time we talk about double jumps used by Yul and Feoh. The Problem "Double jumps"- referring to the exploit of the forward and rear escape skills held by Yul and Feoh classes. Okay, so I've been pvping for a good while now and there's one thing that absolutely gets abused and needs a hard nerf. Yuls and Feoh using forward and rear jumps in succession (effectively granting the player two full length forward jumps if done correctly) to either beat you to the punch while doing swords or total evasion and or escape from potential harm. Targets that should be easy kills are granted almost absolute immunity from being caught from any other classes that don't share this skill type. The solution It's simple, really. Both jumps should share a cooldown or have a hard capped cooldown not affected by minus cooldown gear. While I might agree that this skillset had it's place in old lineage 2 with massive (1200 was it?) range skills... As it is, this skill set gives these classes that are already at the apex of pvp even that much more of an edge. Edited November 6, 2020 by TheHaggarDagger edit 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free2play Posted November 6, 2020 Share Posted November 6, 2020 Hi there, what class you are? Both Yulls and Mages are glass Cannons, if they don't evade damage they can be very easily killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daik0n Posted November 6, 2020 Share Posted November 6, 2020 another little guy that come asking to nerf the other class he does not play. another one jealous of archers skills. he calls using one skill and then another an "exploit" hahaahahhaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha every single class has a way to jump to/immobilize/pull another character. stop crying and go learn to play 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slycutter Posted November 7, 2020 Share Posted November 7, 2020 (edited) want talk about a class that jumps around nerf evi their whole macro sets are based on jumping around lol There more effective ways for archers to fight then "jumping" i have about 8 skills that make me untargetable or make the attacker lose target but dont break my attacks on them. Edited November 7, 2020 by Slycutter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystikal Posted November 7, 2020 Share Posted November 7, 2020 What is the point of nerfing the skill when there is an agathion in game that lets you jump forward? Sure, it has a reuse time and whatever, but my point is if people demand an effective nerf, make sure there isn't already a work-around in game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHaggarDagger Posted November 7, 2020 Author Share Posted November 7, 2020 7 hours ago, Mystikal said: What is the point of nerfing the skill when there is an agathion in game that lets you jump forward? Sure, it has a reuse time and whatever, but my point is if people demand an effective nerf, make sure there isn't already a work-around in game. You mean the Agathion charms that can no longer be acquired in game? Hardly a work around if it's extremely exclusive. Try and buy a Capricorn that has jump forward, let me know how that goes. On 11/6/2020 at 8:29 AM, Free2play said: Hi there, what class you are? Both Yulls and Mages are glass Cannons, if they don't evade damage they can be very easily killed. Yuls, I can't disagree. Not the best defenses however, you trade those defenses for easily best damage in game. As for Feoh, really? Glass cannons? Have you ever even fought a good Feoh? They're thick af. On 11/6/2020 at 8:45 AM, Daik0n said: another little guy that come asking to nerf the other class he does not play. another one jealous of archers skills. he calls using one skill and then another an "exploit" hahaahahhaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha every single class has a way to jump to/immobilize/pull another character. stop crying and go learn to play It's an exploit because you're using skills in a way they weren't designed to gain an unfair advantage. The only reason it works is because they've made WSAD properly responsive. NOTHING catches double jumping classes other than double jumping classes. As for your argument "every single class..." fair enough however, most of those skills are target and are used to close range, not jump out of range of all skills with like a 5s cooldown.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystikal Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 3 hours ago, TheHaggarDagger said: You mean the Agathion charms that can no longer be acquired in game? Hardly a work around if it's extremely exclusive. Try and buy a Capricorn that has jump forward, let me know how that goes. Why would I try to buy something that I already have on three different characters? But to answer your question, if memory serves someone was selling a low grade one in the AH a few weeks ago. It wouldn't surprise me if there are others who have them sitting in their WH. You'll find out for sure if they nerf the skill, because then everyone will bring them out and try to sell them for 30 - 50 billion adena more than they actually cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDxDan Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 On 6.11.2020 at 3:29 PM, TheHaggarDagger said: It's about time we talk about double jumps used by Yul and Feoh. The Problem "Double jumps"- referring to the exploit of the forward and rear escape skills held by Yul and Feoh classes. Okay, so I've been pvping for a good while now and there's one thing that absolutely gets abused and needs a hard nerf. Yuls and Feoh using forward and rear jumps in succession (effectively granting the player two full length forward jumps if done correctly) to either beat you to the punch while doing swords or total evasion and or escape from potential harm. Targets that should be easy kills are granted almost absolute immunity from being caught from any other classes that don't share this skill type. The solution It's simple, really. Both jumps should share a cooldown or have a hard capped cooldown not affected by minus cooldown gear. While I might agree that this skillset had it's place in old lineage 2 with massive (1200 was it?) range skills... As it is, this skill set gives these classes that are already at the apex of pvp even that much more of an edge. you should try to play those 2 exploit jumpers in pvp/Oly. Tell me afterwards how you feel once your being Jumped by Tyrrs or Chain pulled/stunned/silenced by Tank or Lifted by summoners or Shadow jumped by othels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHaggarDagger Posted November 10, 2020 Author Share Posted November 10, 2020 On 11/7/2020 at 8:16 PM, Mystikal said: Why would I try to buy something that I already have on three different characters? But to answer your question, if memory serves someone was selling a low grade one in the AH a few weeks ago. It wouldn't surprise me if there are others who have them sitting in their WH. You'll find out for sure if they nerf the skill, because then everyone will bring them out and try to sell them for 30 - 50 billion adena more than they actually cost. Okay... So you confirm that they're super exclusive. And? It's a limited resource and once opened can't be traded. Your argument is moot. On 11/8/2020 at 7:50 AM, TDxDan said: you should try to play those 2 exploit jumpers in pvp/Oly. Tell me afterwards how you feel once your being Jumped by Tyrrs or Chain pulled/stunned/silenced by Tank or Lifted by summoners or Shadow jumped by othels. So because the exploit (which does in fact work in Oly.) isn't as effective because of a closed space, it shouldn't be addressed? What kind of BS argument is that? Nobody said it wins fights(although I have seen it win fights). It allows these specific classes to avoid fighting all together. As I said before, NOTHING counters Double Jumping other than double jumping. Not snares, not close range or pull skills. Nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoToMoTo Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 Just another mess from nc, on the perfect world all old agations should be force exchanged for new one. But we all know that devs totally lost control about NA gameplay/balance/economy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 If we had normal itemization and a good way to get gear + not paying anywhere between x10 to x100 times the price for promos mate, you would not even think about yul jumps or double jumps … or feoh double jumps rly. It is all about the price/rates we pay. Feoh/Tyrr/Othell are superiors classes to Yul, because of the item prices here, many ppl think is OP, it is not - and believe me more nerfs will come to Yul in the future, so they make archers pay or upgrade gear, do not worry about it. About what FoToMoTo mentioned - total mess with the agathion charms - it seems we got all agathion systems from all servers to our .. you pay for 1 promo they change it to a totally different system - a system far superior to what we had some months ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystikal Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, TheHaggarDagger said: Okay... So you confirm that they're super exclusive. And? It's a limited resource and once opened can't be traded. Your argument is moot. My point is that the proposed doesn't interfere with the playing styles of the people that you'd like to affect as much as you think. Like most nerfs, this will likely impact the downstream players. The people that are pissing you off by using "double jumps" -- trust me when I say that, like me, they probably already have a work around in place. You're better off asking them to nerf some other aspect for yuls and feoh. Edited November 10, 2020 by Mystikal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iAdel22 Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 On 06/11/2020 at 11:29, TheHaggarDagger said: Já era hora de falarmos sobre saltos duplos usados por Yul e Feoh. O problema "Saltos duplos" - referindo-se à exploração das habilidades de fuga para frente e para trás das classes Yul e Feoh. Ok, então eu tenho lutado por um bom tempo agora e há uma coisa que é totalmente abusada e precisa de um nerf duro. Yuls e Feoh usando pulos para frente e para trás em sucessão ( efetivamente concedendo ao jogador dois pulos para frente de comprimento total, se feito corretamente ) para bater em você enquanto dá espadas ou evasão total e / ou escapar de um perigo potencial. Alvos que deveriam ser mortes fáceis recebem imunidade quase absoluta de serem pegos de qualquer outra classe que não compartilhe este tipo de habilidade. A solução É realmente simples. Ambos os saltos devem compartilhar um cooldown ou ter um hard capped cooldown não afetado por menos cooldown gear. Embora eu possa concordar que este conjunto de habilidades tem seu lugar na antiga linhagem 2 com habilidades de alcance massivo (1200 não é?) ... Como é, este conjunto de habilidades dá a essas classes que já estão no ápice do pvp muito mais uma vantagem. Just because you don't know how to face the classes does it deserve a nerf? Besides, this double jump is not easy to do! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDxDan Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 20 hours ago, TheHaggarDagger said: Okay... So you confirm that they're super exclusive. And? It's a limited resource and once opened can't be traded. Your argument is moot. So because the exploit (which does in fact work in Oly.) isn't as effective because of a closed space, it shouldn't be addressed? What kind of BS argument is that? Nobody said it wins fights(although I have seen it win fights). It allows these specific classes to avoid fighting all together. As I said before, NOTHING counters Double Jumping other than double jumping. Not snares, not close range or pull skills. Nothing. I didnt say it shouldnt be adressed. i am just saying a Tyrr on Rabbit catches a Feoh/Archer whos double jumping quicker than you would think. same goes for Tanks cause they can literally spam chain pull atks. same goes for Othels who can dash and keep jumping behind the target. Doing the Double jumping requires a quick responds by the player him/herself. you wont be able to pull it off properly on the first dozen trys. I am not here to teach you what the Weakness of the Double jump is. You will have to find that out by yourself. I dont get paid to teach people how to pwn. All i am gona say is there are skills that you may havent found yet that prevent classes from using such skills. Also Theres another downside to the Skills where they cant be used. But once again i am not gona tell you everything. play adapt and overcome the Situation on your own or i guess just keep making posts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDxDan Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 16 hours ago, Argus said: If we had normal itemization and a good way to get gear + not paying anywhere between x10 to x100 times the price for promos mate, you would not even think about yul jumps or double jumps … or feoh double jumps rly. It is all about the price/rates we pay. Feoh/Tyrr/Othell are superiors classes to Yul, because of the item prices here, many ppl think is OP, it is not - and believe me more nerfs will come to Yul in the future, so they make archers pay or upgrade gear, do not worry about it. About what FoToMoTo mentioned - total mess with the agathion charms - it seems we got all agathion systems from all servers to our .. you pay for 1 promo they change it to a totally different system - a system far superior to what we had some months ago. Sorry?? Feoh superior to Yul? Some Feoh items cost double the Price of what Yuls have to pay for theirs ... not to mention but it is always forgotten .. Feoh Mage Crit rate still capped at 33.4% since beginning of time whilst Yul even with the aoe skill critrate nerf still rocks a solid 50% Also consider Feoh single target skills have 190-210ish power whilst AoE skills have 700-800Power which leaves the Feohs to use AoE skills only. Superior up yours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 seems you read but dont understand the whole story, this game is not only hitting mobs aoe, most of the time it is, feoh is superior to almost any class with all tools they have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoToMoTo Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 Guys, this issue is just a top of iceberg. Lineage is not mmo pvp anymore, its FPS with pay real money for your dmg upgrade. Shilen crystals and blood weapons skils are break any normal pvp left. Ahhh i forgot, still chat pvp warriors exist, so mayby should be a system to count it somehow 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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