Have you an idea how much time need to do a critical by archer? DID YOU TEST IT?

[Gianfry]

Ncwest, are you looking now the our situation in our servers? excluded the top-premium-ultrapoket players i mean.

 

Here with our average gears it's an destruction change, really i need to shot slowly idk numbers of aoe to make a critical!!! and i boosted all on p.skill critical chance and it's all useless!!

 

Here with our medium levels/gears than other regions got really differents conseguences! if u want BALANCE you have to INCREASE other classes, NOT NERF with this hardcore difficult gamelife! 

 

Even the Eviscerator is UltraPowered, look the crazyest amount of damages he can do, but it's ok, we dont ask to nerf we need them good, we need improve others we dont ask to nerf them! but we ask to improve OTHERS to make a sense and help with other classes to do more with this difficult !!!

 

HAVE YOU TESTED HERE?

Ncwest staff an answer please

 

REMEMBER TO BALANCE: INCREASE OTHERS, INSTEAD NERF SOME GREAT TO MAKE SH1T.

Edited November 13, 2020 by Gianfry

[Gianfry]

And don't forget u can't compare the conseguences between different regions, they have more more better gears medium, like we can speak greater jewels and more, here we are papers and stuck for example most to lv.3 jewels.

[Gianfry]

ah and brooch lv.2 too.

[TheThrax]

Rly its hilarious, we allready have a yull thread...no need to make another one.
Regarding higher prices...well, you do log 3 accounts for free. You dont have to pay  like in other regions.

Now, to answer your question...if you take a look at ranking in first 100 ppl on server you will find 90% yulls and feohs.
Do you consider this a problem? I do.
What corean devs(yes, not NcWest) did is to nerf...is what they do...

A real good balance in my eyes would be to eliminate any posibility for AOE/Party designed toons to play solo, It can be done easy by increasing mp consumption x10 or as much as needed to do not use skills more then 2 min. Doing that will force Yulls/Feohs to play in full party, as should be, with tank/Dread/Healer/ISS and the balance with exp will be restored a bit. This is the only way for other classes, like evi since you mentioned it or daggers or tyrrs or wynns, to have a fair chance to be in top100.

So you see, a small nerf for only 2 skills is not near enough! Yulls and Feohs need much more nerf to actually matter.

Ps: if you think yulls are so nerf and unplayeble just be patient and in few months you will be able to change your main class with stone of destiny.

Edited November 13, 2020 by TheThrax

[McFlurry]

(man it doesn't matter if there are other topics or not, he made his own topic little different so stay in topic is not ur business that.)

about the topic

he have right you talk about "only 2 skills" lol....but yull has only these 2skills very aoe.

 

Also i agree even about balance question, we can't nerf more ppl, we need to improve classes that need equal the top classes or like that.

 

If we move in this direction like nerf good classes instead improve penalized classes We will start have all chars that become like Toon Papers and we can start play hellokitty instead continue play here with this difficult game, if you are not premium-poket like fufuh/lestronzel/iiaaaaii/iiuuuii/peppinio/andcompany.

 

Good luck.

Edited November 13, 2020 by McFlurry

[TheThrax]

32 minutes ago, McFlurry said:

(man it doesn't matter if there are other topics or not, he made his own topic little different so stay in topic is not ur business that.)

Its a common practice, if not forum rule, for forum mods to do not allow multiple threads for same subject and merge all in one.

In your eyes mby look like a nerf but in our opinion its a balance...I guess here its a debate.
Bottom line, devs made a mistake and now they try to correct that...

I think we can all agree if a class is designated to play in party they should not be able to do very good solo or like is atm to solo party areas.

offtopic:
I remember when Tanks had so much power and can solo instances, filed farm,etc ( if memory serve well i kinda quote Draeke: Imagine DD"s face when Iss gave me as tank Pom buff...that was about Altar instance where Draeke-Tank was the main DD )
What happent next? I tell you...devs nerfed so hard tanks till the point they couldnt do solo nothing. Same they must do for Yulls and Feohs. I hope.

Now you complain for a small ajustment in more then 10 years? Not to mention you have the posibility to archive same crit rate...

Edited November 13, 2020 by TheThrax

[LordDragnil]

It will be another one comming out, ... I am ok with that nerf. But what is completely wrong that it touched low/mid gear only. 

Want new players on the server? Forget it.

Developers must play their own games. That would be the best punishment or joy.

The game has no content for last 3 years or even longer. 

Edited November 13, 2020 by LordDragnil
Minor improvements

[mixa]

This is exactly the desired change and it's here to stay. You've there options - play the class as it is ; reroll to a different class ; quit.

[Daik0n]

DONT listen to any m* here that claims that

"YoU cAn EZ rEaCH 95% sKiLl cRiTiCaL cHaNcE"
"aRcHer gEaR iS 10x cHEaP3r tHaN FeoHHH"

My post with complete explanations and calculations PLUS official tests from 4game: https://forums.lineage2.com/topic/20113-archer-nerf-feedback/?do=findComment&comment=136319
 

Quote

For the sake of the exalted archers (76 DEX 9.5%):

Superior Critical Arrow: 10% + AP: 10% = 20% total increase bonus
9.5% * 1.2 = 11.4% Skill critical rate.

LMAO. 1 out of 10 mobs on an aoe if lucky enough to hit that many on places like blazing swamp. And that's if they are smart enough to choose the correct AP's in the first place.

My own results with 97 DEX, Lv8 Hunter (+13%), PoM (+25%), +8 Cancer(+8%), AP (+10%)and passive archer skill (+10%)

Here's a russian GM video trying to minimize the nerf using top end gear(LMAO): https://youtu.be/QioNkB98FpA
And heres a real world video made by me showing real world gear on same target as the above video PLUS open world mobs same level as me: https://youtu.be/tgrzBS_6kQc
 

As you can see, GM crap video represents NOTHING from what really happens with real players.

[Rykra]

I still waiting nerf for this skills:  Quick Shot, Pinpoint and Tornado Shot.

So the game will be balanced.

[Whatif]

10 hours ago, Gianfry said:

Ncwest, are you looking now the our situation in our servers? excluded the top-premium-ultrapoket players i mean.

 

Here with our average gears it's an destruction change, really i need to shot slowly idk numbers of aoe to make a critical!!! and i boosted all on p.skill critical chance and it's all useless!!

 

Here with our medium levels/gears than other regions got really differents conseguences! if u want BALANCE you have to INCREASE other classes, NOT NERF with this hardcore difficult gamelife! 

 

Even the Eviscerator is UltraPowered, look the crazyest amount of damages he can do, but it's ok, we dont ask to nerf we need them good, we need improve others we dont ask to nerf them! but we ask to improve OTHERS to make a sense and help with other classes to do more with this difficult !!!

 

HAVE YOU TESTED HERE?

Ncwest staff an answer please

 

REMEMBER TO BALANCE: INCREASE OTHERS, INSTEAD NERF SOME GREAT TO MAKE SH1T.

Increase others   imagine how much work is to go over all toons instead one yul to nerf  ?  Its all good  it was about time to get ya all back to earth )

[Whatif]

And yah , as someone said still waiting for more nerfs imo  you still can do crit cap  to 100% 

[Joebob]

4 hours ago, Daik0n said:

DONT listen to any m* here that claims that

"YoU cAn EZ rEaCH 95% sKiLl cRiTiCaL cHaNcE"
"aRcHer gEaR iS 10x cHEaP3r tHaN FeoHHH"

My post with complete explanations and calculations PLUS official tests from 4game: https://forums.lineage2.com/topic/20113-archer-nerf-feedback/?do=findComment&comment=136319
 

My own results with 97 DEX, Lv8 Hunter (+13%), PoM (+25%), +8 Cancer(+8%), AP (+10%)and passive archer skill (+10%)

Here's a russian GM video trying to minimize the nerf using top end gear(LMAO): https://youtu.be/QioNkB98FpA
And heres a real world video made by me showing real world gear on same target as the above video PLUS open world mobs same level as me: https://youtu.be/tgrzBS_6kQc
 

As you can see, GM crap video represents NOTHING from what really happens with real players.

Did you watch the whole Russian video? The second half is without all the +crit chance stuff. He only used +20 crit chance on the skill itself, a greater cancer agathion, and the crit chance talent. Crit rate was still pretty high. Maybe enchanting the skill for crit chance increases the base crit rate and is not multiplicative like items?

Also, your screenshots are misleading. Your crit rate per the pictures is 8% but your crit rate in the video based on all of your attempts was 37%. You can't take screen shots of outlier data and use them to represent the real crit rate.

The main difference between the second part of his video and your video is the +20 crit rate skill enchant which leads me to believe that the enchanting skills for crit rate makes a huge difference. This makes sense because your crit rate was 37% with POM while his is 70%-75% without POM. Try changing your enchant to crit rate on your +10 skill (the books to change the enchant is only like 5m or something) then try your test again.

[Joebob]

24 minutes ago, Joebob said:

Did you watch the whole Russian video? The second half is without all the +crit chance stuff. He only used +20 crit chance on the skill itself, a greater cancer agathion, and the crit chance talent. Crit rate was still pretty high. Maybe enchanting the skill for crit chance increases the base crit rate and is not multiplicative like items?

Also, your screenshots are misleading. Your crit rate per the pictures is 8% but your crit rate in the video based on all of your attempts was 37%. You can't take screen shots of outlier data and use them to represent the real crit rate.

The main difference between the second part of his video and your video is the +20 crit rate skill enchant which leads me to believe that the enchanting skills for crit rate makes a huge difference. This makes sense because your crit rate was 37% with POM while his is 70%-75% without POM. Try changing your enchant to crit rate on your +10 skill (the books to change the enchant is only like 5m or something) then try your test again.

Edit: Looks like the focus enchant is also multiplicative according to the EU experiment post discussion and the increased NPC crit rate may be due to level difference to the NPC.

[naughtydismutase]

1 hour ago, Joebob said:

The main difference between the second part of his video and your video is the +20 crit rate skill enchant which leads me to believe that the enchanting skills for crit rate makes a huge difference. This makes sense because your crit rate was 37% with POM while his is 70%-75% without POM. Try changing your enchant to crit rate on your +10 skill (the books to change the enchant is only like 5m or something) then try your test again.

That's interesting. Anyone knows if it also works for magical skills? Because I'm not sure whether to enchant for power or crit rate.

[LordDragnil]

8 hours ago, naughtydismutase said:

That's interesting. Anyone knows if it also works for magical skills? Because I'm not sure whether to enchant for power or crit rate.

M. Crit has the cap. You need normal Valakas's neclace, some stuff and buff to reach the cap.

[Slycutter]

17 hours ago, Rykra said:

I still waiting nerf for this skills:  Quick Shot, Pinpoint and Tornado Shot.

So the game will be balanced.

Why don't we just take away bows and give archers nerf guns or wait better idea lets take away all weapons and people can just hit with fists again lol  Geez can we think about a solution instead of create bigger problems?

[GhostShadow]

On 11/13/2020 at 10:50 AM, Rykra said:

I still waiting nerf for this skills:  Quick Shot, Pinpoint and Tornado Shot.

So the game will be balanced.

Yuls are meant to be powerful DDs. You can't nerf all of their skills and expect that to remain the case. What you propose would actually lead to a different kind of imbalance.

Besides, as others have said, nerfs won't hurt the really stacked archers. You'll still get 1-shot from most of them. Even with a +10 bow resist artifact. People are upset with archers, but it's really simple game mechanics and NCSoft's pay-to-win sales strategy that keeps introducing more and more items that only make Yuls ever more deadly.  

[Whatif]

18 hours ago, GhostShadow said:

Yuls are meant to be powerful DDs. You can't nerf all of their skills and expect that to remain the case. What you propose would actually lead to a different kind of imbalance.

Besides, as others have said, nerfs won't hurt the really stacked archers. You'll still get 1-shot from most of them. Even with a +10 bow resist artifact. People are upset with archers, but it's really simple game mechanics and NCSoft's pay-to-win sales strategy that keeps introducing more and more items that only make Yuls ever more deadly.  

I'm not sure, hard to tell without testing the defensive part of character, but if it is not possible to boost up and get some defense from arrows, that a problem... 1 shooting isn't very good thing )