Othell Adventurer VS Othell Ghost Hunter

[IvanDragunov]

hello friends!

do you think that the +50% front damage that the adventurer has as passive skill is better for auto hunting than the ghost hunter's +10% critical damage boost?

if mobs are just 1-2 shot then i think that the ghost hunter is the only way..

[iHyperlite]

16 hours ago, IvanDragunov said:

hello friends!

do you think that the +50% front damage that the adventurer has as passive skill is better for auto hunting than the ghost hunter's +10% critical damage boost?

if mobs are just 1-2 shot then i think that the ghost hunter is the only way..

I think an othell spoiler does from facing dmg better with self pom and plunder.

All othells will 1 shot pve mobs solo with the correct gear. In afk macro, even a ghost hunter will 1 shot from the front with Heartbreaker, chain blow and shadow reverse will 1 shot from the back (stabbing the front). 

I'm surprised you aren't considering wind rider. It's 2 special stabs always get the flank bonus and reset their cool downs. It dishes out dmg fast.

 

My biggest gripe on adventurer is the front facing bonus. You will still use shadow chase to move, and still utilize the back. In practice, the adventurer is the worst dagger imo. You don't need mp, and the front facing bonus is weak compared to the flank bonus of a wr, rear bonus of a gh and/or self pom and forward bonus of spoiler. 

[IvanDragunov]

Easy..I make my main ghost hunter with adventurer dual

[Joebob]

I am a 116 Adventurer and I solo xp 95% of the time and would like to add my experience since I spend a lot of time optimizing my hunting.

Approximately 50% of my solo mob kills are not after shadow chase due to its cooldown or if I am very close to the next mob. (Note, I am pretty much maxed out on cooldown reduction.) Those non-shadow chase stabs are not from the rear most of the time obviously because the mobs don't always spawn with their backs to me. (For that reason, I don't even use backstab in my macro when soloing. Reverse Mana resets the other stab cooldowns improving this. I don't think ghost hunters or spoilers get this stab reset ability.) With my current damage, the level 118 mobs at wastelands usually still die in one hit, front or back. However, it's close from the front. If I were a ghost hunter, the lesser front damage would ensure that I not 1-shot the mobs from the front.

So, if conditions are right, an adventurer will kill faster. This may apply to spoilers too but I don't think they have the stab cooldown reset from reverse mana that adventurers have. I'm not sure how much of a difference that makes.

Note, if I had Hyperlite's level of gear I would probably one shot these mobs from the front anyway and there is no higher level soloing zone. DV doesn't count, even Hyperlite can't hunt there efficiently. Therefore, ghost hunters are faster if you geared enough to 1-shot everything at the highest level. However, most people aren't so I think it's valid.

TLDR - If you one shot everything from the front or back, ghost hunters are definitely the fastest killers. If you don't one shot everything from the front as a ghost hunter, adventurers or spoilers may be faster because not all stabs are from behind when soloing. In a party, ghost hunters should be the best regardless since most stabs should be from behind.

[iHyperlite]

please do not forget.  the ghost hunter has +35% front dmg boost.  Shadow hunter gives a raw +65% patk crit dmg boost before the -30% to the front.

Also, when you consider the different daggers, you have to consider how their special skilsl behave.  Shadow Reverse of the GH will always perform a max dmg back stab when the mob is attacking/targeting you.  A WR's side step is the same way.  You have to have the mob facing you or agro on you to have their skills work properly.

An adventurer, after considering how the special stabs work, always performs less as good as the GH and Spolier.

 

Also, the 30% pve dmg on spoiler really puts it above all other daggers in pve.  Couple that with the head/tails buff and its pretty crazy strong in the dmg it can put out in a front facing siutuation.  All of its boosts still apply in the absence of a vital spot attack, and substantially more than the 50% the adv gets. (pve dmg +30%, patk +30%, patk crit dmg +20%, p skill crit dmg +20% - all at once)

 

patk % = crit dmg % = skill crit dmg % = p skill power % = dmg % increase on target.

[Joebob]

3 hours ago, iHyperlite said:

please do not forget.  the ghost hunter has +35% front dmg boost.  Shadow hunter gives a raw +65% patk crit dmg boost before the -30% to the front.

Also, when you consider the different daggers, you have to consider how their special skilsl behave.  Shadow Reverse of the GH will always perform a max dmg back stab when the mob is attacking/targeting you.  A WR's side step is the same way.  You have to have the mob facing you or agro on you to have their skills work properly.

An adventurer, after considering how the special stabs work, always performs less as good as the GH and Spolier.

 

Also, the 30% pve dmg on spoiler really puts it above all other daggers in pve.  Couple that with the head/tails buff and its pretty crazy strong in the dmg it can put out in a front facing siutuation.  All of its boosts still apply in the absence of a vital spot attack, and substantially more than the 50% the adv gets. (pve dmg +30%, patk +30%, patk crit dmg +20%, p skill crit dmg +20% - all at once)

 

patk % = crit dmg % = skill crit dmg % = p skill power % = dmg % increase on target.

I just tested Shadow Hunter. The 65% patk crit damage boost only applies from the rear. 67k damage to a mob from the front with Shadow Hunter and 83k damage without.

When soloing, Shadow Reverse will be your first attack quite often because it is a short blink (assuming you use a kbm). Not great for soloing or parties. 

I agree that a spoiler will perform better than an adventurer since spoilers do more damage from all directions in PVE. However, I still disagree that a Ghost Hunter will always perform better than an adventurer. At least in my case. Per my calculations of the damage bonuses, an adventurer's damage will almost double a ghost hunter's from the front.

Another thing to consider for ghost hunters is that they have three jumps: shadow chase, grim reaper possession (20s+ cooldown with 5 second double damage), and shadow reverse (short blink but still effective). The other classes only have shadow chase. 

 

[iHyperlite]

16 minutes ago, Joebob said:

I just tested Shadow Hunter. The 65% patk crit damage boost only applies from the rear. 67k damage to a mob from the front with Shadow Hunter and 83k damage without.

When soloing, Shadow Reverse will be your first attack quite often because it is a short blink (assuming you use a kbm). Not great for soloing or parties. 

I agree that a spoiler will perform better than an adventurer since spoilers do more damage from all directions in PVE. However, I still disagree that a Ghost Hunter will always perform better than an adventurer. At least in my case. Per my calculations of the damage bonuses, an adventurer's damage will almost double a ghost hunter's from the front.

Another thing to consider for ghost hunters is that they have three jumps: shadow chase, grim reaper possession (20s+ cooldown with 5 second double damage), and shadow reverse (short blink but still effective). The other classes only have shadow chase. 

 

 

i will test the front dmg of shadow hunter later tonight.  i went off tooltip alone.

 

also, to your point on the 3 jumps.  grim reaper is one of the main reasons i like the GH.  it eliminates range the best of the 3 daggers.

[KazAnakiuS]

On 8/30/2021 at 10:15 PM, iHyperlite said:

 

i will test the front dmg of shadow hunter later tonight.  i went off tooltip alone.

 

also, to your point on the 3 jumps.  grim reaper is one of the main reasons i like the GH.  it eliminates range the best of the 3 daggers.

Hey Hyper, did you do that test?

[iHyperlite]

On 3/6/2022 at 5:31 PM, KazAnakiuS said:

Hey Hyper, did you do that test?

the test on shadow hunter? sry this is an old post.

[Mitzza]

On 8/30/2021 at 5:50 PM, iHyperlite said:

please do not forget.  the ghost hunter has +35% front dmg boost.  Shadow hunter gives a raw +65% patk crit dmg boost before the -30% to the front.

Also, when you consider the different daggers, you have to consider how their special skilsl behave.  Shadow Reverse of the GH will always perform a max dmg back stab when the mob is attacking/targeting you.  A WR's side step is the same way.  You have to have the mob facing you or agro on you to have their skills work properly.

An adventurer, after considering how the special stabs work, always performs less as good as the GH and Spolier.

 

Also, the 30% pve dmg on spoiler really puts it above all other daggers in pve.  Couple that with the head/tails buff and its pretty crazy strong in the dmg it can put out in a front facing siutuation.  All of its boosts still apply in the absence of a vital spot attack, and substantially more than the 50% the adv gets. (pve dmg +30%, patk +30%, patk crit dmg +20%, p skill crit dmg +20% - all at once)

 

patk % = crit dmg % = skill crit dmg % = p skill power % = dmg % increase on target.

Hi,

pve dmg +30% -this is a pasive skill

but the rest of the boosts where  do they come  from ?

-patk +30%, patk crit dmg +20%, p skill crit dmg +20% - all at once)

[KazAnakiuS]

1 hour ago, Mitzza said:

Hi,

pve dmg +30% -this is a pasive skill

but the rest of the boosts where  do they come  from ?

-patk +30%, patk crit dmg +20%, p skill crit dmg +20% - all at once)

Coin Of Maphr 110 skill, when it flips to the red side (heads)

[iHyperlite]

2 hours ago, KazAnakiuS said:

Coin Of Maphr 110 skill, when it flips to the red side (heads)

 

3 hours ago, Mitzza said:

Hi,

pve dmg +30% -this is a pasive skill

but the rest of the boosts where  do they come  from ?

-patk +30%, patk crit dmg +20%, p skill crit dmg +20% - all at once)

 

its lucky coin of maphyr almighty heads flip. the tails flip is 15% less dmg

[Mitzza]

15 hours ago, iHyperlite said:

 

 

its lucky coin of maphyr almighty heads flip. the tails flip is 15% less dmg

That is an interesting skill :))

[iHyperlite]

16 hours ago, Mitzza said:

That is an interesting skill :))

Nothing shows the actual buff stats, just the casting buff stats. 

 

It's a very strong buff regardless of heads or tails. 

[Minoshadom]

Hello everyone, I would like to know if it is viable to change from adventure to spoil? Atm lvl 109

Thx for some reply

[iHyperlite]

1 hour ago, Minoshadom said:

Hello everyone, I would like to know if it is viable to change from adventure to spoil? Atm lvl 109

Thx for some reply

U will do 30% more dmg because of the great luck passive. If u focus pve, spoiler best. 

[Adding]

@iHyperlite on dual daggers how much diffrence on damage is between a +14, +18, +21 and +24?
Is really big difference? i need to buy and i dont know which one.

[Agriojohn]

The better the weapon, the later in time you will change it

You can go in 118-119 even with a +16 weap as long as you have the other essential items that boost your critical damage and skill power.

In my opinion, go as high as your available adena to spare, can take you

Personally for example i wouldn't give a shitload of adena for a +20+ weapon if i didn't have right jewels and accessories

 

[Adding]

my items are

P skil power +4 artifact

P Skill damage +4 artifact

P Critical damage +4 artifac

P skill critical damage +10 balance artifact

P skill power  11% balance artifact

P skil rate +9 artifact

 

aries,cancer,leo,scorpion (+8) aghations, anakim agathion

bloody light set +8

cloak elmore +15

radiant +5

gran kain neck, dragon ring +4, angel ring +6, atlas ring blessed, dragon rind leather shirt +4

 

top grade broch +5,

greater jewels lvl 3 (ruby, emerald, opal, red cat, pearl, aquamarine)

insanity, sayha8 , tal 8 abu1, venir12,

brac lvl4 +3, artifact book top +5

dyes lvl stage 4 (patack skill power skill damage)

 

Dual daggers +24 limited , but im thinking on changin to another weapon on red libra, and getting a lower dual dagger but i dont know which overchant .

I cant test the damage difference between +14 , +18 ,+21 and +24

5 minutes ago, Agriojohn said:

The better the weapon, the later in time you will change it

You can go in 118-119 even with a +16 weap as long as you have the other essential items that boost your critical damage and skill power.

In my opinion, go as high as your available adena to spare, can take you

Personally for example i wouldn't give a shitload of adena for a +20+ weapon if i didn't have right jewels and accessories

 

 

[iHyperlite]

7 hours ago, Adding said:

@iHyperlite on dual daggers how much diffrence on damage is between a +14, +18, +21 and +24?
Is really big difference? i need to buy and i dont know which one.

Well, +14 vs +24 are 2 completely different weapons in what they can do.

What is the rest of your gear? (crit dmg, patk, skill power stuff, etc) 

 

The reason I ask is a +24 set of Daggers on a toon with nothing else on it gear wise is a waste and u won't be happy with the dmg. A dagger doesn't usually benefit from a high patk wep like a yul or tyr does bc your dmg lies within the crit dmg modifiers you stack. 

[Mitzza]

On 3/14/2022 at 4:28 AM, iHyperlite said:

Nothing shows the actual buff stats, just the casting buff stats. 

 

It's a very strong buff regardless of heads or tails. 

Made a lvl 85 othell spoiler to test the skills , it hase 2 plunders , 1 with less power , but when you want to enchant the stabs skills, you can not, why? It is becuse the lvl of the skils is to small? 

And heart stab still has 30% cd if you hit from the back, and the second stab 20% power if you strike when bleed is on target.

So you still depend on hiting the target from behind and use bleed to use all skils power effectively. 

In toi this abilities are useless. 

What penalty does GH has from hiting in front?  Only reverse skill? And that 30% pve and 15% recived cd from luck skils that spoiler hase. 

I do not think i will keep my GH until the libra ends , but just want to know if spoiler is a big diference. 

Ty

[Agriojohn]

6 hours ago, iHyperlite said:

Well, +14 vs +24 are 2 completely different weapons in what they can do.

What is the rest of your gear? (crit dmg, patk, skill power stuff, etc) 

 

The reason I ask is a +24 set of Daggers on a toon with nothing else on it gear wise is a waste and u won't be happy with the dmg. A dagger doesn't usually benefit from a high patk wep like a yul or tyr does bc your dmg lies within the crit dmg modifiers you stack. 

Check the post above yours, he has dtated his equipment which is very nice

2 hours ago, Mitzza said:

Made a lvl 85 othell spoiler to test the skills , it hase 2 plunders , 1 with less power , but when you want to enchant the stabs skills, you can not, why? It is becuse the lvl of the skils is to small? 

And heart stab still has 30% cd if you hit from the back, and the second stab 20% power if you strike when bleed is on target.

So you still depend on hiting the target from behind and use bleed to use all skils power effectively. 

In toi this abilities are useless. 

What penalty does GH has from hiting in front?  Only reverse skill? And that 30% pve and 15% recived cd from luck skils that spoiler hase. 

I do not think i will keep my GH until the libra ends , but just want to know if spoiler is a big diference. 

Ty

Today i changed my main from GH to FS and i saw huge difference with my current gear which is not top but i would call it decent. 

In my macros i disabled the bluff since i saw that facestabing was giving better damage

 

I will check this week also in toi, atelia to compare with last week and i will update my findings but with a first glance i see a very big difference in kills/h 

For example in fom i am cleaning the spot andd wait for mobs to spawn, this never happened with GH

Btw, with a Great relief i saw that changing from GH to FS i also kept archangel of death learned...

I had the impression that i would lose it

[iHyperlite]

2 hours ago, Mitzza said:

Made a lvl 85 othell spoiler to test the skills , it hase 2 plunders , 1 with less power , but when you want to enchant the stabs skills, you can not, why? It is becuse the lvl of the skils is to small? 

And heart stab still has 30% cd if you hit from the back, and the second stab 20% power if you strike when bleed is on target.

So you still depend on hiting the target from behind and use bleed to use all skils power effectively. 

In toi this abilities are useless. 

What penalty does GH has from hiting in front?  Only reverse skill? And that 30% pve and 15% recived cd from luck skils that spoiler hase. 

I do not think i will keep my GH until the libra ends , but just want to know if spoiler is a big diference. 

Ty

check ghost hunter shadow hunter skill description: "Critical Damage for standard attacks at the front -30% "

this makes all dmg from the front get a -30% modifier.  stabs, everything.  Shadow Reverse works correctly from the front because it teleports to the rear and stabs in 1 motion, it cannot be avoided. but if you use form the rear, it teleports to front and stabs for -30% dmg. go test on an npc in town. use skill from front and rear, see dmg dif is 30%

if you compare a spoiler great luck 30% passive pve bonus, with no negative effect from their luck coin of maphyr flip, and you can have a 60% swing in dmg to the front in a place like toi.

 

 

regarding the 2 plunders. 1 is AoE and low skill power.  this skill is worthles. you also have dwarven flare bluff.  also useless.  the spiler plays like a dagger, it just has no front penalty and a passive boost for pve.

heartbreak, chain, blood stab, there all work the same unless you compare to a TH where heart and chain can reset.

 

[iHyperlite]

1 hour ago, Agriojohn said:

Btw, with a Great relief i saw that changing from GH to FS i also kept archangel of death learned...

I had the impression that i would lose it

All common skills are saved if you use chaos essence. All Daggers have angel of death and archangel of death. Stone of destiny would reset it I think. 

 

The only skill that does not behave this way is mortal blow on gh/wr. Even though they both share this skill, it resets when swapping between the 2 because not all Daggers share it. 

[Adding]

@iHyperlite i posted my gear just before your post