BAN for using CTRL button?

[EgglandsBest]

8 hours ago, Neutron said:

Hello,

We finally had a chance to look over this and I can say that we definitely did not change our stance on PvP and engaging others in PvP. 

The violation reason stated in the email was incorrect and very unfortunate as it implied that participating in PvP content would be considered a form a harassment.

There was something the user did that triggered a severe suspension like this, it just wasn't explained to them properly.

We'll discuss the matter further with this person privately through support and try to clarify the violation reason more clearly to them.

Thank You

So this was my clarification to the violation.  We've agreed that force pulling players/monsters around is within the realm of 'PvP' and isn't against your policy (as you just stated and your team stated months ago in regards to people pulling and forcing macros red) - but the info provided earlier is all you can share with me.

So lets take a look at the info provided earlier (note, this is from 2 tickets, the warning ticket and the ban ticket -- 6 different GMs/Support staff answered and they all seem to have looked at the evidence and agreed it was luring mobs/players):
GM Yiar 7/11 - "After reviewing this report, we have found out that you are harassing other players by luring them to mobs with the intention of getting them killed."
Robin 7/12 - "Also, we have carefully reviewed the details of this incident and we understand that this violation may not have been intentionally offensive. However, we must consider every reasonable interpretation of behavior and communication to ensure that we apply our policies as fairly and equally as possible and so we can offer an environment that is fun, friendly and respectful for all of our players."
Max 7/12 - "Just to make clear things out, you were warned because you've caused disturbance to other players. As previously indicated in the Rules of Conduct, you must respect the rights of others and their rights to play and enjoy the game. To this end, you may not defraud, harass, threaten, or cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other players. Thank you for understanding our position on this matter."
Edanne 7/12 - "We understand your point but it doesn't mean that you'll do such disturbing actions that may cause annoyance to other player(s) playing the game. We're just reminding you things so that the same incident won't happen again."
GM Nero 7/14 - "Violation: Intentionally luring monsters into player parties, Abusing skills to pull players into a group of monsters."
GM Izko 7/14 - "However we are still unable to uplift the suspension on your account. As previously indicated in the Rules of Conduct, you must respect the rights of others and their rights to play and enjoy the game. To this end, you may not defraud, harass, threaten, or cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other players."
Edanne 7/15 - "We have thoroughly investigated this incident and we have found no errors or inconsistencies in the decision to suspend the account. Though we regret having to take these types of actions, we believe it is in the best interest of our service. "

Please @Neutron, what is your ACTUAL stance on luring players into mobs/mobs into players and if you're all on the same page why does my clarification email state 'all the above was what you can tell me' in regards to my harassment ban?  I'm sorry but your support staff isn't doing a very good job in regards to this, and this is the only way I know to get an answer from people(you) who know how the game works. What did I do twice to trigger the ban? Once prior to the warning on the 6th and again before the ban on the 14th if it wasn't engaging in forced PvP as was pointed at multiple times?
If it's not about what was done but about how frequent it was being done, then we as players need to know how many times you can gank someone before they can petition you for 'harassment'.  Is there a daily limit? Weekly? Monthly?  Does it depend if they have vit running? Does it depend on how fragile their emotion state? What clan they are in? If there is a 2-way war or not?  These are all things that haven't mattered in L2, so if they matter now we deserve to know.

[Killgor]

The rider never ends.

[Draecke]

4 hours ago, SleepingPower said:

If there will be need to change the rules like soften first rule of conduct then there need to be change on all items in L2 store with added warning that customers can donate and pay those items ( like potions, xp scrolls, xp runes etc) but there is high risk that items cant be used, consumed or having any benefit from them as advertised and intended because anyone is free to interrupt your gameplay till paid L2 store items/services will expire without any gain and without any advertised benefit.

That risk is implied by the simple fact you choose to play an open world pvp game so if you don't like it it's time to go play something else..

 

[Nymphadorae]

52 minutes ago, EgglandsBest said:

Max 7/12 - "Just to make clear things out, you were warned because you've caused disturbance to other players. As previously indicated in the Rules of Conduct, you must respect the rights of others and their rights to play and enjoy the game. To this end, you may not defraud, harass, threaten, or cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other players. Thank you for understanding our position on this matter."

I see this happening daily in game chat (and even here in forums), with people pulling up real names from players, location / work / country information, private information overall that has nothing to do with a character in game and it's just a personal attack, which is clearly a bigger form or harassment than using tank skills on mobs/players  Tickets are submitted and what is done? Nothing! Not even a chat ban for a certain period of time. So... don't try to sell me that the Support Staff is impartial, because clearly it isn't. And that's the biggest issue with this game...

[ZooArcher]

Lmfao,

I read, and came away with...

Please please gms i wanna gank people... 

 

[Helv]

1 hour ago, EgglandsBest said:

Please @Neutron, what is your ACTUAL stance on luring players into mobs/mobs into players and if you're all on the same page why does my clarification email state 'all the above was what you can tell me' in regards to my harassment ban?  I'm sorry but your support staff isn't doing a very good job in regards to this, and this is the only way I know to get an answer from people(you) who know how the game works. What did I do twice to trigger the ban? Once prior to the warning on the 6th and again before the ban on the 14th if it wasn't engaging in forced PvP as was pointed at multiple times?
If it's not about what was done but about how frequent it was being done, then we as players need to know how many times you can gank someone before they can petition you for 'harassment'.  Is there a daily limit? Weekly? Monthly?  Does it depend if they have vit running? Does it depend on how fragile their emotion state? What clan they are in? If there is a 2-way war or not?  These are all things that haven't mattered in L2, so if they matter now we deserve to know.

I agree, Neutron, please specify. I have never reported anyone for harassment, because I thought pvp was part of the game, but since it clearly is not (anymore), I'd like a clarification so I know when exactly I can report offenders.

Also, if there is someone with a macro-party occupying a spot, can I get rid of them by getting them killed or dragged away or is engaging also a harassment? Is there any limit to the attempts I can have?

[ZooArcher]

Just expand the world ffs, give people more places to go, or revamp more old places as your already planning... 

This is what it looks like,

Ncsoft knows the player base is getting smaller... so they are forcing everyone into a bottleneck hunting area, offering pvp items in stores as the means to fight over the spot... pay to win.

 

The other stuff outside of that is against the rules, ie not fighting for the spot.. if you are just griefing looking for pvp, then you might het banned.. why? Because there are no penalties for those actions.

Ie, you start to pvp with a pve group.. yourself is not exping.. you are wasting the the time of the pve'er soly to do so.. yourself can be 100% rezzed, so wasting your own time is not fine, but jot others.. sure they can be 100% rezzed to, but loose time.

So is that real pvp or is that personal fear? That you feel threatened by pve groups that may out level you, since you have time to waste?

Lets look at that for a moment, why are you not out leveling.. are you max level, or alone with no one to party with? 

So there is no solo spots, so you have nothing to do but ruin it for someone else.. GG..

 

Thanks ncsoft, you created the trolls ingame.

[SleepingPower]

6 hours ago, Draecke said:

That risk is implied by the simple fact you choose to play an open world pvp game so if you don't like it it's time to go play something else..

 

The risk and trust for customers is determined with actual agreement and actual rules of conduct and not some extern definition of subscription game witch existed 15 years a go.

Its player risk to loose items vs NC Soft risk to loose income from L2 store sales caused by offender activity.

Its players risk to loose items or have them expired without any benefit vs risk for offender to get banned.

Its hard and very subjective to determine witch money is more worth - money of thousands small L2 store buyers or money of big spender who cause small buyers to stop using L2 store and cause loss of income, bad advertisement and toxic environment on forum and other networks to NCSoft.

For that nobody should be able to buy himself right to violate rules.

Or to use your words if someone choose to play L2 and don't like common sense, rules and agreement then its time to go play something else, maybe private server where he can buy with donations a right to harass others or to wait that NCSoft create subscription based special pvp server with no rules for all a$$ holes.

Here rules exist to be respected.

They regulate player behavior also to enforce trust and protect customers and enable them to use, consume and have benefit from items they buy in L2 store and on other side NCSoft to get income from sales and keep customers

 

[Neutron]

Hello All,

As I said before, this is not a PvP policy issue and there's no plans to create a set of rules contrary to the way the game works.

Since I can't provide you all with specific chat logs, screenshots of what lead to this individual being suspended none of you can see the evidence and this forum isn't a place where we perform public tribunals for players.

Also further discussion for this needs to occur privately with this individual, therefore i'm going to close this thread.

On a final note, regarding your last response I did ask a 2nd time for Support Team to give you a non-canned reply and I do expect them to do this in order to properly resolve the issue.

Thanks