BAN for using CTRL button?

[Raefiya]

@Conguero Its monday already and still no answer from l2 staff? Gonna be Tuesday soon too

[Victra]

3 hours ago, MissDirect said:

What I did ACTUALLY say were things like 'pathological' and 'Gang Stalking', these are clinical and legal descriptions of behaviors that are considered by any mental health or legal professional as dangerous to other people and a liability to everyone involved with them.

So I Googled "gang stalking" for the sake of curiosity, because I'd never heard the two terms used in conjunction and this is literally the top link:

United States of Paranoia: They See Gangs of Stalkers
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/11/health/gang-stalking-targeted-individuals.html

Quote

...these individuals [that believe they are being gang stalked] represent an alarming development in the history of mental illness: thousands of sick people, banded together and demanding recognition on the basis of shared paranoias...

So then I decided to Wiki...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalking#Stalking_by_groups

Quote

Some psychiatrists and psychologists say "Web sites that amplify reports of mind control and group stalking" are "an extreme community that may encourage delusional thinking" and represent "a dark side of social networking. They may reinforce the troubled thinking of the mentally ill and impede treatment."

A study from Australia and the United Kingdom by Lorraine Sheridan and David James compared 128 self-defined victims of 'gang-stalking' with a randomly selected group of 128 self-declared victims of stalking by an individual. All 128 'victims' of gang-stalking were judged to be delusional, compared with only 3.9% of victims of individual-stalking. There were highly significant differences between the two samples on depressive symptoms, post-traumatic symptomatology and adverse impact on social and occupational function, with the self-declared victims of gang-stalking more severely affected. The authors concluded that "group-stalking appears to be delusional in basis, but complainants suffer marked psychological and practical sequelae.

In all seriousness, if anyone is feeling like they are being "gang stalked" please seek the help of a medical professional. This is just a game and we're having fun but you may be showing signs of a mental disorder. Please call the national mental health treatment hotline: 888-969-1246.

[Neutron]

Hello,

I've asked the team here to review this and be sure we're all on the same page.

If there is a need to change to the rules there needs to be clear communication to everyone and transparency to players to give time to adjust.

The L2 Game Support Lead was out of office today so I was unable to get an answer or verify if the concerns of this post are genuine. 

Thanks!

[Infami]

11 minutes ago, Neutron said:

Hello,

I've asked the team here to review this and be sure we're all on the same page.

If there is a need to change to the rules there needs to be clear communication to the everyone and transparency to players to give time to adjust.

The L2 Game Support Lead was out of office today so I was unable to get an answer or verify if the concerns of this post are genuine. 

Thanks!

I mean this literally, thank you for at least responding while looking into this, because the principal of this (not the BS political drama details), the principal of this is a major deal to a lot of us. Its such a big deal that mortal enemies Nova and Ms are actually agreeing on something, so we should also probably check the temperature in hell.

[Auburn]

20 minutes ago, Infami said:

 Its such a big deal that mortal enemies Nova and Ms are actually agreeing on something, so we should also probably check the temperature in hell.

I lol'd. So true. GM's need to get the people who reply to support tickets all on the same page.

[Yidao]

2 hours ago, Neutron said:

Hello,

I've asked the team here to review this and be sure we're all on the same page.

If there is a need to change to the rules there needs to be clear communication to the everyone and transparency to players to give time to adjust.

The L2 Game Support Lead was out of office today so I was unable to get an answer or verify if the concerns of this post are genuine. 

Thanks!

Neutron, just look at the NCoin purchasing records of the players involved. This should answer the question what kind of people you want on your servers, what kind of game you want

[SleepingPower]

On ‎14‎. ‎07‎. ‎2018 at 7:31 PM, EgglandsBest said:

Would like an explaination why I was banned for holding CTRL and using skills, same as every other player has in the past:

Meanwhile - camping on bodies and PKing them as soon as they accept rez is fine.  Pulling people and forcing them to go red, then collecting their gear (GM posts actually blamed the macroers) is fine. 

This is a PvP focused game, with heavy social aspects to it. There is a balance, you try not to bleep of the people who can kill you and you don't take sh** from people you can kill.  How do you fight people who don't throw a war up if the only ways to kill them can be mass reported for 'harassment'?

I guess this is a notice to everyone: if anyone kills you in anyway that 'ruins your enjoyment' if you get enough people to report them they will get banned! So careful if you hold CTRL to hit players, if you PK, if you do any sort of shenanigans!  Welcome to PvP in 2018.

Edit/Update 7/14 10:40pm - They refuse to lift the ban even after being given screen shots of GM/CM responses about similar issues of force pulling players and other 'messing with players gameplay' where their responses were that it was a part of the game you have to deal with.
They state, "However we are still unable to uplift the suspension on your account. As previously indicated in the Rules of Conduct, you must respect the rights of others and their rights to play and enjoy the game. To this end, you may not defraud, harass, threaten, or cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other players. Thank you for understanding our position on this matter."
Lineage 2 - 2018 "If you can't beat them, report them." 
Enjoy guys, best wishes.

To lift your ban try this both things.

Write to support and explain that you have read first rule of  rules of conduct and that you understand it now.

Offer to refund in adena and Ncoin all victims for financial damage you have made ( for example all potions, scrolls and runes witch have expired without any gain because of your activity) 

[EgglandsBest]

I feel harassed by your comments to me in this thread. Please stop being so mean.

[Snipeer]

On ‎7‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 8:59 PM, Truffle said:

Just stop spending money, after my case and this it should be apparent. Incompetent people are not worthy of our money. 

Truffle if you quit I will start mega donating !!! and 90% of ppl hwo left nc soft will come back.

[Daikon]

If Im going down some day, will be greifing, training and PKing noobs around. Thats the true L2 spirit, YOU KNOW IT.

its the only free thing they havent take from everyone.

FOR THE RIGHTS OF GREIFING!!!!!!!!!!

[Foxes]

On 14/7/2018 at 1:31 PM, EgglandsBest said:

This is a PvP focused game....

For only 4 hours of pvp per month?

Thats happened on naia and this will happen again.

[BornInHell]

17 hours ago, Neutron said:

Hello,

I've asked the team here to review this and be sure we're all on the same page.

If there is a need to change to the rules there needs to be clear communication to everyone and transparency to players to give time to adjust.

The L2 Game Support Lead was out of office today so I was unable to get an answer or verify if the concerns of this post are genuine. 

Thanks!

1

First of all, Neutron, "Support Lead was out of the office today", it's 2018 there are cell phones and other means of communication to get in touch with employees. 

Secondly, Neutron, if you have ever played Lineage 2, you should know that pulling monster on enemy members and/or interrupting their exp is a key mechanic of Lineage 2, if you or your Staff have no idea about any of those points, I suggest a 48 hour review window before you or any other member decides to go on a limb and blatantly ban/suspend a person.

Third point, "I've asked the team here to review this and be sure we're all on the same page." Do you mind sharing with the community what "the same page" is and why are you reviewing it 5 days after the incident occurred? Is a player in question going to be compensated for the mistake of NCWest staff or is it going to be as a comedian Joey Diaz says, quote "It's either blue cheese with wings or go bleep your mother" i hope i don't need to reiterate in Lineage 2 terms?

Forth point, i have been recently reported and given a warning with few other members for "profanity and being mean to other players", upon my conversation with YOUR STAFF i have been told that upon review NCWest staff only looked into screenshot or reported sentence, rather than the whole conversation. As a result, they took out of context sentence and reviewed it solely on its merit. Ok, upon communication they have discovered an error in judgment, but can you at least state the rules clearly or review conversations of all parties involved in the report rather solely focusing on judging what is reported?

Finally, Hime, you are a Sr. Community Manager; instead of liking Neutron posts that answers no question on a topic, start reviewing problems and give clear answers to them, you last "communication" is dated January, you are clearly communicating with a Community. We are still waiting on a long-promised Juji's Lab return, could've done at least 1-2 tests in 7 month of fooling around. 

[Tool_of_Society]

3 hours ago, BornInHell said:

First of all, Neutron, "Support Lead was out of the office today", it's 2018 there are cell phones and other means of communication to get in touch with employees.

Holy crap you're absolutely unreasonable. Either you believe you're such a special snowflake that the head of a department not only should know your name but everything you've ever done or petitioned off the top of their head or you're asking for a massive amount of security holes which could easily lead up to you losing your account. Yes phones exist but I highly doubt the support lead has any clue about you or your problem.  The only way for them to know anything would be for them to carry around the entire support database with them as they engage in life. If you don't see how such a demand is a massive security risk then you aren't nearly as smart as you think you are.

[Neutron]

Hello,

We finally had a chance to look over this and I can say that we definitely did not change our stance on PvP and engaging others in PvP. 

The violation reason stated in the email was incorrect and very unfortunate as it implied that participating in PvP content would be considered a form a harassment.

There was something the user did that triggered a severe suspension like this, it just wasn't explained to them properly.

We'll discuss the matter further with this person privately through support and try to clarify the violation reason more clearly to them.

Thank You

[Neutron]

5 hours ago, BornInHell said:

First of all, Neutron, "Support Lead was out of the office today", it's 2018 there are cell phones and other means of communication to get in touch with employees. 

Secondly, Neutron, if you have ever played Lineage 2, you should know that pulling monster on enemy members and/or interrupting their exp is a key mechanic of Lineage 2, if you or your Staff have no idea about any of those points, I suggest a 48 hour review window before you or any other member decides to go on a limb and blatantly ban/suspend a person.

Third point, "I've asked the team here to review this and be sure we're all on the same page." Do you mind sharing with the community what "the same page" is and why are you reviewing it 5 days after the incident occurred? Is a player in question going to be compensated for the mistake of NCWest staff or is it going to be as a comedian Joey Diaz says, quote "It's either blue cheese with wings or go bleep your mother" i hope i don't need to reiterate in Lineage 2 terms?

Forth point, i have been recently reported and given a warning with few other members for "profanity and being mean to other players", upon my conversation with YOUR STAFF i have been told that upon review NCWest staff only looked into screenshot or reported sentence, rather than the whole conversation. As a result, they took out of context sentence and reviewed it solely on its merit. Ok, upon communication they have discovered an error in judgment, but can you at least state the rules clearly or review conversations of all parties involved in the report rather solely focusing on judging what is reported?

Finally, Hime, you are a Sr. Community Manager; instead of liking Neutron posts that answers no question on a topic, start reviewing problems and give clear answers to them, you last "communication" is dated January, you are clearly communicating with a Community. We are still waiting on a long-promised Juji's Lab return, could've done at least 1-2 tests in 7 month of fooling around. 

1. I understand frustration in wanting us to fix someone like this, but at the end of the day people have lives outside of work and we'd only call in people for severe catastrophic problems.

2. I brought up the point internally that we've never punished anyone for this type of thing before and can't be decided on by a GM alone (We'd need to find a different solution to this like opening up a PvE only server or something and not disrupt a core feature of the game).

3. Pretty much point #2, I have generally the same opinion of players in regards to most things in the game. If someone on the team does something out of the spirit of the game we're not on the same page and it's spinning up an internal discussion, that's what this incident triggered.

4. i really don't know the history of your specific reports, but as I was a GM for a long time, I know that context should be considered for reports and both parties should be reviewed. We're pretty hands off in general to 'Toxicity' compared to other game, but in general keeping trash talk to within the game context is the safest approach, once people start throwing out things about someones race, country, personal details is when the GM team will try to intervene.

5. The lab isn't something we have much time to run at this time, when Juji was doing this there were two producers (Juji and Cryo) to share work and explore other fun projects while currently it is only myself doing everything they did on top of being pretty heavily involved in QA testing of the updates still.

~Thanks

[Truffle]

3 minutes ago, Neutron said:

1. I understand frustration in wanting us to fix someone like this, but at the end of the day people have lives outside of work and we'd only call in people for severe catastrophic problems.

2. I brought up the point internally that we've never punished anyone for this type of thing before and can't be decided on by a GM alone (We'd need to find a different solution to this like opening up a PvE only server or something and not disrupt a core feature of the game).

3. Pretty much point #2, I have generally the same opinion of players in regards to most things in the game. If someone on the team does something out of the spirit of the game we're not on the same page and it's spinning up an internal discussion, that's what this incident triggered.

4. i really don't know the history of your specific reports, but as I was a GM for a long time, I know that context should be considered for reports and both parties should be reviewed. We're pretty hands off in general to 'Toxicity' compared to other game, but in general keeping trash talk to within the game context is the safest approach, once people start throwing out things about someones race, country, personal details is when the GM team will try to intervene.

5. The lab isn't something we have much time to run at this time, when Juji was doing this there were two producers (Juji and Cryo) to share work and explore other fun projects while currently it is only myself doing everything they did on top of being pretty heavily involved in QA testing of the updates still.

~Thanks

There is another "incident" that you seem to be ignoring... You made the wrong decision twice, waiting for you to make it right on the 3rd.

[weinerthezon]

9 hours ago, Neutron said:

 

 

Hello,

We finally had a chance to look over this and I can say that we definitely did not change our stance on PvP and engaging others in PvP. 

The violation reason stated in the email was incorrect and very unfortunate as it implied that participating in PvP content would be considered a form a harassment.

There was something the user did that triggered a severe suspension like this, it just wasn't explained to them properly.

We'll discuss the matter further with this person privately through support and try to clarify the violation reason more clearly to them.

Thank You

I call bs, I play with the player in question daily, everything he was doing is perfectly legal. I have played lineage 2 for 14 years, and nothing outside of the normal protocol was executed.

Pvping is part of the game, no way he did anything outside the realm of this.

 

[EgglandsBest]

Throwing ugly fish on people is against the rules and harassment. xDDDDDD

[Winona]

2 minutes ago, EgglandsBest said:

Throwing ugly fish on people is against the rules and harassment. xDDDDDD

Great! There goes the ugly fish market!

[BornInHell]

47 minutes ago, Neutron said:

 

2. I brought up the point internally that we've never punished anyone for this type of thing before and can't be decided on by a GM alone (We'd need to find a different solution to this like opening up a PvE only server or something and not disrupt a core feature of the game).

 

Thank you for a reply @Neutron, but can we stop that nonsense about opening a pve server, before it gets any further. If players want a bot server they are free to play on a private server with x2000 rates. It is bad enough that NCsoft removed core feature of item drop when you die to mobs, good thing Koreans realized the error and brought that system back to on a Classic server since it stops any afk exp setup or bots from running the game. 

Quote

There is another "incident" that you seem to be ignoring... You made the wrong decision twice, waiting for you to make it right on the 3rd.

Can we get a take why support decided to take action almost 3 weeks after the incident occurrence? Was it due to the fact that no one cared about the problem since the owner of the weapon did not have a character to use the item on? Furthermore, what is exactly the difference between support members reversing intentionally broken r-r99 +12-30 weapons, cross-account item transfers, and a double reversal of a dragon weapon? Is it based on whether the community reports the incident or "impact on the game"?  

 

Please specify when you have time,

Thank you.

[weinerthezon]

1 hour ago, Neutron said:

 

2. I brought up the point internally that we've never punished anyone for this type of thing before and can't be decided on by a GM alone (We'd need to find a different solution to this like opening up a PvE only server or something and not disrupt a core feature of the game).

Please tell me this is a joke....

[Victra]

On 7/15/2018 at 8:55 PM, bigpoppapump said:

...You wage war and use loopholes in the PVP system in an attempt to  apply pressure on a PVE clan...

...WE choose not to retaliate, because we are PVE...

 

On 7/15/2018 at 10:38 PM, ChillTown said:

...Going after a pve clan running pve skills...

May want to change your recruitment macro there, friends. You seem to be advertising as a PVE/PVP clan.

[Yidao]

1 hour ago, weinerthezon said:

Please tell me this is a joke....

Not a joke. In Korea a PvE only server (Gallint) existed from 2005 to 2011:
http://blog.daum.net/kwondoh/7757629

The technology exists. If we assume that the upcoming security update will take care of the bots and disable looped macros to eliminate afk hunting, something which did not exist in the Gallint days, I see no reason why it shouldn't work.

With proper apartheid all the drama in this thread could have been avoided. As it is now, any potential player casually browsing this forum must get the impression that the worst scum of the planet is gathering at NCWest. From a marketing perspective this is not smart. So you lock up the PvP aficionados in their ghetto, letting them stew in their own excrement, while the PvE enthusiasts can get on with their lives, paying a monthly subscription fee. Happiness all around

[2SHAE]

2 hours ago, weinerthezon said:

I call bs, I play with the player in question daily

Choose your next words very wisely.

Didn't you quit last week.

[SleepingPower]

On ‎17‎. ‎07‎. ‎2018 at 4:03 AM, Neutron said:

Hello,

I've asked the team here to review this and be sure we're all on the same page.

If there is a need to change to the rules there needs to be clear communication to everyone and transparency to players to give time to adjust.

The L2 Game Support Lead was out of office today so I was unable to get an answer or verify if the concerns of this post are genuine. 

Thanks!

If there will be need to change the rules like soften first rule of conduct then there need to be change on all items in L2 store with added warning that customers can donate and pay those items ( like potions, xp scrolls, xp runes etc) but there is high risk that items cant be used, consumed or having any benefit from them as advertised and intended because anyone is free to interrupt your gameplay till paid L2 store items/services will expire without any gain and without any advertised benefit.