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Removal of Nerf to Evi and Tyrr is not right


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Per Juji:
The following skills will now have a fixed cooldown time: (ALL CANCELED)
Gravity Barrier
Summon Barrier
Giant Barrier
Mind of Steel
Faceoff (edited)

These NEEDED nerfed to BALANCE PVP!!!!!!, my class "Othell" specifically is completely unbalanced as it is, in PVP. These changes would have been GREAT to re-balance the pvp experience. so at least for a few minutes we can actually kill an evi or tyrr....

Now as an Othell we cannot pvp these classes period! It's been completely unfair and unbalanced AND BROKENT for a very long time.

(Tyrr/Eviscerator) they have barriers/steel mind/ guts that my class cannot even compete against, and they literally are almost up 100% of the time with the number of cooldown items and legacy agathion's in game.

i cannot even come close to outlasting their skills as they are up for so long, Othell's have NO skills to combat or compare to these classes, i can't even run since the legacy agathions are in the game still like the jump one that are unobtainable now.

Before you mention hide.... everyone runs around with firework/flash macro.. hide too is pointless. it has been so long since Othell actually got a boost like these classes.

Please how does NCsoft plan on creating a balanced pvp experience for Othell.. we are seriously broken in pvp against most classes.

My ultimate hope here is an  explantation for how my class is to compete in pvp now with this update. Most other classes have received updates, and their skills, defense, attack, evasion, barrier are in every way superior to othell.


I have tested this, in open pvp, 1v1, even with me having 3-5 more levels and almost double the gear of an opponent. 

Tyrr wins 99% i cannot outlast their guts and barrier, between those its up for >1min their aoe range is too much to go with the extreme dmg they deal. And I rarely if ever evade attacks even with my evasion skills up.

Eviscerator, wins 99% if they topaz you or stun with shillen, tạo skills tới cannot evade. Steel mind up too long. And with legacy jump agathions impossible to escape them.

Feoh wins 100%.. even at lv120, and all skills popped most of us can't break mana barrier..

Dk is broken, dmg is insane. I get 1 shot from someone 10 levels below me if they have any gear.

Yul is 50/50, this one is balanced

Healer 50/50 is balanced

Iss is 50/50 is balances

Tank is 50/50 is balanced

Summoners are broke they never win

Seer can't comment nobody plays except oly


Summary of what is broken for othell
1. Too many in game cheap ways to resist dagger. No inexpensive ways to resist other weapons.
2. Our evasion doesn't work, chance to evade % way too low given our lack of defense. 
3.you have too many items in game to pop us out of hide.
4. Cooldown on hide if you keep those items in game is too high
5. Counter stance lasts 7 seconds for evasion. Compared to other classes, eg. tyrr guts is >1min, evi, steel mind >1min
6. Ultimate evasion.. % is way too low for chance to evade, and cooldown is way too long if thats how we are supposed to live
7. Magic debuff.... never lands due to feoh resistances..
8. Shadow chase, never ever lands stun in pvp. Other toons resistances by default too high.
9. Flash, never ever lands, so they never lose target, opponent resistances by default are too high.

Just to name a few things. 

Overall I explore you to test it yourself on equally geared toons. You will find my analysis is accurate.

Please help me understand when our class can compete in pvp, and how ncsoft is going to address it.

Those nerfs to the specific classes the devs removed, would have made us have a balanced chance 50/50

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49 minutes ago, Rotten said:

Per Juji:
The following skills will now have a fixed cooldown time: (ALL CANCELED)
Gravity Barrier
Summon Barrier
Giant Barrier
Mind of Steel
Faceoff (edited)

These NEEDED nerfed to BALANCE PVP!!!!!!, my class "Othell" specifically is completely unbalanced as it is, in PVP. These changes would have been GREAT to re-balance the pvp experience. so at least for a few minutes we can actually kill an evi or tyrr....

Now as an Othell we cannot pvp these classes period! It's been completely unfair and unbalanced AND BROKENT for a very long time.

(Tyrr/Eviscerator) they have barriers/steel mind/ guts that my class cannot even compete against, and they literally are almost up 100% of the time with the number of cooldown items and legacy agathion's in game.

i cannot even come close to outlasting their skills as they are up for so long, Othell's have NO skills to combat or compare to these classes, i can't even run since the legacy agathions are in the game still like the jump one that are unobtainable now.

Before you mention hide.... everyone runs around with firework/flash macro.. hide too is pointless. it has been so long since Othell actually got a boost like these classes.

Please how does NCsoft plan on creating a balanced pvp experience for Othell.. we are seriously broken in pvp against most classes.

My ultimate hope here is an  explantation for how my class is to compete in pvp now with this update. Most other classes have received updates, and their skills, defense, attack, evasion, barrier are in every way superior to othell.


I have tested this, in open pvp, 1v1, even with me having 3-5 more levels and almost double the gear of an opponent. 

Tyrr wins 99% i cannot outlast their guts and barrier, between those its up for >1min their aoe range is too much to go with the extreme dmg they deal. And I rarely if ever evade attacks even with my evasion skills up.

Eviscerator, wins 99% if they topaz you or stun with shillen, tạo skills tới cannot evade. Steel mind up too long. And with legacy jump agathions impossible to escape them.

Feoh wins 100%.. even at lv120, and all skills popped most of us can't break mana barrier..

Dk is broken, dmg is insane. I get 1 shot from someone 10 levels below me if they have any gear.

Yul is 50/50, this one is balanced

Healer 50/50 is balanced

Iss is 50/50 is balances

Tank is 50/50 is balanced

Summoners are broke they never win

Seer can't comment nobody plays except oly


Summary of what is broken for othell
1. Too many in game cheap ways to resist dagger. No inexpensive ways to resist other weapons.
2. Our evasion doesn't work, chance to evade % way too low given our lack of defense. 
3.you have too many items in game to pop us out of hide.
4. Cooldown on hide if you keep those items in game is too high
5. Counter stance lasts 7 seconds for evasion. Compared to other classes, eg. tyrr guts is >1min, evi, steel mind >1min
6. Ultimate evasion.. % is way too low for chance to evade, and cooldown is way too long if thats how we are supposed to live
7. Magic debuff.... never lands due to feoh resistances..
8. Shadow chase, never ever lands stun in pvp. Other toons resistances by default too high.
9. Flash, never ever lands, so they never lose target, opponent resistances by default are too high.

Just to name a few things. 

Overall I explore you to test it yourself on equally geared toons. You will find my analysis is accurate.

Please help me understand when our class can compete in pvp, and how ncsoft is going to address it.

Those nerfs to the specific classes the devs removed, would have made us have a balanced chance 50/50

396 / 5.000
They remove the nerf because they threaten to stop donating or change race and extinguish the ertheias, as there are so many, and of course there are few magicians who focus on them since it is not that the difference is felt, of course the armor of the magician the mana is well broken, but if it runs out of MP it doesn't do anything.
And if they remove the nerf, well it should be even for all races.
they just show how sold they are @Juji
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8 minutes ago, Vylion said:
396 / 5.000
They take away the nerf because they threaten to stop donating or change their race and extinguish the ertheias, as there are so many, and of course there are few magicians who focus on them since it's not like you feel the difference, of course the mana armor of the magician is well broken, but if this one runs out of MP it does nothing, and if they remove the nerf then it should be even.
they just show how sold they are @Juji

I hope those of my clan do not see this comment because they are going to annoy me. LOL.

and I hope they don't ban me :(

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2 hours ago, Vylion said:
396 / 5.000
They remove the nerf because they threaten to stop donating or change race and extinguish the ertheias, as there are so many, and of course there are few magicians who focus on them since it is not that the difference is felt, of course the armor of the magician the mana is well broken, but if it runs out of MP it doesn't do anything.
And if they remove the nerf, well it should be even for all races.
they just show how sold they are @Juji

Hi Were do u see info on the remove  of the nerf.  

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How many Evis in pvp today in Chronos/Naia together? 3? Maybe 4?

I really wish Evis was "100% SM" as you say, you have no idea how much investment is needed to make Evis really playable in REAL pvp, when all your enemies have cursed weapons that will jail you for 15s each, or few millions of pdef that will receive 10k damage, or 1 million cp/hp.

Rotten = Wallabi? Tell me not....lol

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2 hours ago, R0Y4L said:

How many Evis in pvp today in Chronos/Naia together? 3? Maybe 4?

I really wish Evis was "100% SM" as you say, you have no idea how much investment is needed to make Evis really playable in REAL pvp, when all your enemies have cursed weapons that will jail you for 15s each, or few millions of pdef that will receive 10k damage, or 1 million cp/hp.

Rotten = Wallabi? Tell me not....lol

Respectfully, your an evi, put your gear on othell and then give me your analysis in pvp. 

 

Simply want devs input please

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2 hours ago, R0Y4L said:

How many Evis in pvp today in Chronos/Naia together? 3? Maybe 4?

I really wish Evis was "100% SM" as you say, you have no idea how much investment is needed to make Evis really playable in REAL pvp, when all your enemies have cursed weapons that will jail you for 15s each, or few millions of pdef that will receive 10k damage, or 1 million cp/hp.

Rotten = Wallabi? Tell me not....lol

it's hard for everyone to equip themselves for a pvp and the classes usually give advantages, that's clear, more than anything what I comment is that they stop being selective with the Nerfeo.
As you can see at the beginning it was for the ertheia and for the magician, the ertheias get angry and remove the nerf but since there are not many magicians if they leave us the nerf.
Things should be couples, not for money.

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You really need to play as Evis do undestand what we, Evis, feel.

Ppl need to stop acting like parrot repeating what you hear, SM is NOT full time (even in oly with cooldown oly talisman), Evis need gear (a lot)/enchant skills (ofc)/practice (and/or fingers) to cycle skills, and dont have survivality guarantee because we need to use spallation and evasion (its not invul skills, each 3s your char will stop to cast this skill if you turn on auto, or a lot of practice to use it without auto mode), barrier is almost useless against high end players, they all have Gran Kain Stage 2 that ignore any invulnerability.

Shilen 10:  server is flooded with shilen 10 after last event, this is the most Evis counter.

Cursed swords: 15 seconds jailed, and believe me, if you are a Evis playing high end pvp, you will waste almost all your SM jailed.

Hidden skills on oly: really need to say about it? Hide > SM.

Cost: Evis need normal p.atk gears for PvE, and p.skill gears for PvP. Top weapons like DW 1~3 or cursed weapons dont have Normal P.Atk Critical Damage bonus.

Is not possible to fight alone against a full party like ppl is saying, "running 100% invul", you can do it in Belleth maybe, but not in a siege full of geared enemies.

If Evis was a broken class, we wont have only half dozen Evis playing this game. Evis is fun to play, and boring to deal with, just it. Maybe, and just maybe, with this new normal attack bonus dmg we can deal a little more damage against other class with same gear of us.

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I think this is great. It really shows us where NC stands regarding balance. This will save me a lot of time and money. Archer meta was dirty but could be dealt with. This Tyrr/evi/DK meta is just disgusting. I was on the fence about hanging up my daggers. I had my hopes up for this patch, things were indeed looking up. With this news the choice is clear. We're not considered.

 

Vote with your wallet.

and while my wallet might not be as mighty as some, this company does not deserve my dollar.

 

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5 hours ago, R0Y4L said:

You really need to play as Evis do undestand what we, Evis, feel.

Ppl need to stop acting like parrot repeating what you hear, SM is NOT full time (even in oly with cooldown oly talisman), Evis need gear (a lot)/enchant skills (ofc)/practice (and/or fingers) to cycle skills, and dont have survivality guarantee because we need to use spallation and evasion (its not invul skills, each 3s your char will stop to cast this skill if you turn on auto, or a lot of practice to use it without auto mode), barrier is almost useless against high end players, they all have Gran Kain Stage 2 that ignore any invulnerability.

Shilen 10:  server is flooded with shilen 10 after last event, this is the most Evis counter.

Cursed swords: 15 seconds jailed, and believe me, if you are a Evis playing high end pvp, you will waste almost all your SM jailed.

Hidden skills on oly: really need to say about it? Hide > SM.

Cost: Evis need normal p.atk gears for PvE, and p.skill gears for PvP. Top weapons like DW 1~3 or cursed weapons dont have Normal P.Atk Critical Damage bonus.

Is not possible to fight alone against a full party like ppl is saying, "running 100% invul", you can do it in Belleth maybe, but not in a siege full of geared enemies.

If Evis was a broken class, we wont have only half dozen Evis playing this game. Evis is fun to play, and boring to deal with, just it. Maybe, and just maybe, with this new normal attack bonus dmg we can deal a little more damage against other class with same gear of us.

Royal, I watch overdps, assuming he has max cooldowns including all the legacy items you can't obtain in game any more.

Sm 1min ish. 

Then he can aka ud, time thats up

He's in steel mind again 1min

Once that's up goes giants

Then is in steel mind.

Even if your jailed hes unkillable for 3+ min.

I have only dabbled with evi, nut i know what your saying. 

All im saying is the cooldown needs increased!

My only defensive skill counter stance. My quickest cooldown is 2min for counter stance which lasts 10 sec..  and is only 80% effective.

I don't mention Final ultimate evasion as the skill is completely broken. You only evade skills 50%. So your still 1 shot, 1 out of every 2 hits from an opponent.

My class is broken period and hope devs make an adjustment. 

They either need to nerf evi/tyrr/feoh, or boost my class idc which.

I for the nerf as its one of the possible solutions

@Juji

I genuinely appreciate your response,THANK YOU! its the first time I've got one from anyone. 

I explore you to investigate my class and forward ideas on to the devs. My class is horribly broken in pvp. Im very willing to contribute constructive ideas

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@Royal

In response i do agree some of evi is completely broken and needs adjusted in game like my class. I do think the artifacts and dmg boosts will fix that.

What i dont agree with is:.

Hidden skills on oly: really need to say about it? Hide > SM

not true.. they give you an agathion that pops us out and some classes can pop you out before the match even begins.  Hide is useless unless you don't pick up the oly agathion.

I do agree with your statement on needing 2x gear, but I do as well, dagger has to have a blood weap to even be able to live for 30 sec period. 

Otherwise all we have is Cat eye, blue shirt and dispa, then we are 1 shot to almost anyone.

And for the evis that have the legacy jump agathion none of us can get, all they have to do is jump backspin while in sm and everyone but tyrr/feoh die for 1 min+ we can't even run away.

 

Really ALL legacy agathions need removed from game. With today's content, creates serious unfair advantages.

 

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@Rotten I undestand too, but I think Evis and Dagger is VERY different class. The big difference imo is Evis against same gear players will hit 10~30k (my dmg is less than 5k most of hits against top tyrrs on Chronos) and dagger will one shot you with at least 1m damage.

We need to see how new skill levels will help each class, if debuffs will work again, etc...theres so much things besides Evis buff/nerf/unnerf...

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5 hours ago, Rotten said:

@Royal all skills up, I skill hit tyrr in guts for 50k at most with br. And I have decent gear. No skills up <5k a stab. We are pretty comparable.

Coz guts 1min + and gives p def any tank would dream  of without any reduction of there p att . Tank seems complete useless everybody now is looking for a titan to tank coz he have provoke , guts , more dmg and aoe than most classes . Pvp no need to talk you get cele tank ud self tyrr barrier and this goes on and on for ever and if  you ever manage to remove barrier you stuck with his guts and mill on pdef like , prob hitting 5-10 k at top gear . Naia have so many tyrrs dk and ofc a top evic overdps perma sm lol . He just goes sm after sm after sm coz of old refresh skill not obtainable in game anymore . 

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1 hour ago, KKKm said:

Coz guts 1min + and gives p def any tank would dream  of without any reduction of there p att . Tank seems complete useless everybody now is looking for a titan to tank coz he have provoke , guts , more dmg and aoe than most classes . Pvp no need to talk you get cele tank ud self tyrr barrier and this goes on and on for ever and if  you ever manage to remove barrier you stuck with his guts and mill on pdef like , prob hitting 5-10 k at top gear . Naia have so many tyrrs dk and ofc a top evic overdps perma sm lol . He just goes sm after sm after sm coz of old refresh skill not obtainable in game anymore . 

Imagine: Evis with Fallen angel ring Lvl 3 (+5% CD reduction) + Fallen angel earring Lvl 3 (+5% CD Reduction) + Bonus P. atk critical damage by level + New artifact P. atk power.

I think Fixed CD atm isn't viable, but NC Devs need set a minimum CD possible for remove Perma SM.

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3 hours ago, Pernambuquinho said:

Imagine: Evis with Fallen angel ring Lvl 3 (+5% CD reduction) + Fallen angel earring Lvl 3 (+5% CD Reduction) + Bonus P. atk critical damage by level + New artifact P. atk power.

I think Fixed CD atm isn't viable, but NC Devs need set a minimum CD possible for remove Perma SM.

Fallen Angel Ring with CD reduction? This is the player thats complaining about SM...lol

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After this weeks seige,  it took a group of 8 toons lv 118-120 most with shillem 10s / blood weapons just to keep 1 evi in check. EIGHT people with top gear!!!!

This Evi has every cooldown item in game there was very little time between steel minds. And with this player also having every legacy agathion in game for giants, br, jump.  Flare, Etc. We were only able to keep him at bay 40% of the time vs 8 ppl. And evi 1 shot everything now!

Steel mind 100% absolutely needs nerf!! Also devs please for the love of God, either make these legacy agathions available to all, or remove them.

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On 3/9/2022 at 5:53 AM, Juji said:

https://forums.lineage2.com/topic/24202-quiet-changes-to-patch-notes/?do=findComment&comment=167558

Basically, the changes were not well-received in other regions and Dev decided to reverse their decision at the last minute for us.

This is the Best decision Nc has made. Do not listen to these people as they have never played an Evi.

Do all these people realize without the less cool down of steel mind the evi class would be DELETED. 

For a middle range char, you still would have 30 - 40 sec cool down between steel mind use ( we are talking about people that spent $10000 - $20000 USD ), if NC decided to change it to 5 min reuse then this class would be as useless as a summoner.

People complain, but do not realize how many evi out there can chain Steel MIND. i think not even 0.0001% of the evi player base can do it.

 

 

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10 hours ago, FistofFury said:

This is the Best decision Nc has made. Do not listen to these people as they have never played an Evi.

Do all these people realize without the less cool down of steel mind the evi class would be DELETED. 

For a middle range char, you still would have 30 - 40 sec cool down between steel mind use ( we are talking about people that spent $10000 - $20000 USD ), if NC decided to change it to 5 min reuse then this class would be as useless as a summoner.

People complain, but do not realize how many evi out there can chain Steel MIND. i think not even 0.0001% of the evi player base can do it.

 

 

Say thanks they don't add to evis the boost of F1/Normal atacks...Khavataris now making even more damage than Eviscerator with normal atacks rofl...Tyrrs are the crazy class...and even with full cooldowns u can't have perma Steel Mind...steel mind 45 seconds to +20 and with new jewels u can wait till it ends to use new jewels to kill him during celestial waiting next STeel mind...Evis are 1 shot material without SM.

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