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Petition Auto pickup

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marcysiek    93
On 9/27/2018 at 7:22 PM, Juji said:

Only Adena is on "Auto-Pickup" in Classic like we have on the Live version of the game.

Very bad decision, that's supposed to be CLASSIC, nothing should be "AUTO"...

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Lawman    147

Very good decision.  Not everything in the original was perfect and not every change is bad.  Several people have objected, but I have a hard time seeing the down side of auto pick-up of adena.  The only reason I've heard is that it wasn't in the original, which is no reason at all, if it's an improvement over the original.  The same holds for automation of soulshots.  Surely people didn't choose to play the game because they got to pick up adena.  

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4 hours ago, Lawman said:

Very good decision.  Not everything in the original was perfect and not every change is bad.  Several people have objected, but I have a hard time seeing the down side of auto pick-up of adena.  The only reason I've heard is that it wasn't in the original, which is no reason at all, if it's an improvement over the original.  The same holds for automation of soulshots.  Surely people didn't choose to play the game because they got to pick up adena.  

The only real stance should be this form of automation gives an even bigger advantage to range characters in the begining of the server over melee. Obviously not all the time because sometimes they will have to go pick up mats that drop from their mobs, but since most only drop adena early, it just makes the level speed gap between the 2 class types increased. 

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Lawman    147

Why not?  If it makes the game better, do it.  Hard core for the sake of rewarding hard work is good.  Hard core for it's own sake makes no sense.

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marcysiek    93
3 hours ago, Lawman said:

Why not?  If it makes the game better, do it.  Hard core for the sake of rewarding hard work is good.  Hard core for it's own sake makes no sense.

Okay, so give autoloot for everything (not only adena), give NPC buffer, give shadow/newbie/adventurer weapons, and make rates 1000x. Why not?

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Mage    9

There were also advantages to non auto pick up adena.  A lot of times, when you were too broke to teleport, you could run out somewhere and find adena all over the place and pick up as much as you needed.. sometimes it was from bots yes, but also from snobby high level players who " don't pick up trash adena drops".  And then you would back away slowly and run back to Talking Island..

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Lawman    147

Marcy, it's simple.  Those things don't make the game better.  Note, I didn't say easier.  I said better.  Or do you play L2 just so you can run around picking up adena?  Auto-loot for everything actually makes sense, distributed as spoils are now.  But everything else on your list would harm the game. 

Mage, I had to laugh.  I suppose you are right.  Perhaps they should add an option so those who don't approve of auto-pickup won't automatically pick up.  Wonder how many would use that option.  Seriously, you might be able to do that, but remember that mob drops disappear after 10 minutes now, so there wouldn't be nearly as much lying around.

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TrOLLw    62
17 minutes ago, Lawman said:

Marcy, it's simple.  Those things don't make the game better.  Note, I didn't say easier.  I said better.  Or do you play L2 just so you can run around picking up adena?  Auto-loot for everything actually makes sense, distributed as spoils are now.  But everything else on your list would harm the game. 

Mage, I had to laugh.  I suppose you are right.  Perhaps they should add an option so those who don't approve of auto-pickup won't automatically pick up.  Wonder how many would use that option.  Seriously, you might be able to do that, but remember that mob drops disappear after 10 minutes now, so there wouldn't be nearly as much lying around.

Lawman, It is really simple.  This is the game we play.  Loot drops on the ground and is not autopicked to encourage interaction with the world and other players. This feature has been the start of many player conflicts that evolve into month long rivalry's that can even spill into clan wars.  It breaks the monotony and makes this game better. You didn't say easier but you don't have to, it is. And no it is not better for the game.

Every post you make seems to suggest some taking away from the original features of this game to create this bubble around you having to risk anything.  This doesn't sound like the game for you as all you want to do is make it more like other MMORPG's that cradle fragile ego's.

Go play Lineage 2 revolution, it has auto pick, no drops on death and no xp loss.

Edited by TrOLLw

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Oldjohn    5
44 minutes ago, Lawman said:

Marcy, it's simple.  Those things don't make the game better.  Note, I didn't say easier.  I said better.  Or do you play L2 just so you can run around picking up adena?  Auto-loot for everything actually makes sense, distributed as spoils are now.  But everything else on your list would harm the game. 

Mage, I had to laugh.  I suppose you are right.  Perhaps they should add an option so those who don't approve of auto-pickup won't automatically pick up.  Wonder how many would use that option.  Seriously, you might be able to do that, but remember that mob drops disappear after 10 minutes now, so there wouldn't be nearly as much lying around.

I Consider yourself very annoying, first you complain about drop on death,  a very intersting thing and one of the reasons this was once called "hardcore" and not carebear bullshit like WoW(where i think you belong), now you want automated stuff, buddy, don't keep Trying to ruin the experience of veteran players asking for more nas more shit that don't belong here.

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Lawman    147

Oldjohn, I've been here 15 years and don't plan on going anywhere.  I love L2 more than you can imagine.  I'm an addict.  Don't try to tell me where I belong.  It's just that, unlike you, I can recognize improvements when they are introduced and believe that some of them should be included in the Classic game.  Nothing ever stays the same and quality of life improvements, as they are called, should be included.  I haven't noticed you suggesting that we go back to enabling soulshots before every hit.

I think the truth boils down to this.  Lineage 2 was never intended to be, as one player put it, the law of the jungle and predators rule.  Once the developers realized that predators were using the game to spoil it for others, they changed the rules of the game to try and make it what they wanted it to be to begin with.  You, and others like you, want to go back to the "predators rule" days.  The rest of us and, thankfully, the developers, don't.

Perhaps you and the other predators should try a game that is truly law of the jungle.  Lineage 2 was never intended to be that, and Classic will not be that.  Unfortunately, it will be play to win, but that's a whole different issue. 

By the way, I tried WOW and hated it.  Lineage 2 forever.

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FatHips    237
53 minutes ago, Lawman said:

Oldjohn, I've been here 15 years and don't plan on going anywhere.  I love L2 more than you can imagine.  I'm an addict.  Don't try to tell me where I belong.  It's just that, unlike you, I can recognize improvements when they are introduced and believe that some of them should be included in the Classic game.  Nothing ever stays the same and quality of life improvements, as they are called, should be included.  I haven't noticed you suggesting that we go back to enabling soulshots before every hit.

I think the truth boils down to this.  Lineage 2 was never intended to be, as one player put it, the law of the jungle and predators rule.  Once the developers realized that predators were using the game to spoil it for others, they changed the rules of the game to try and make it what they wanted it to be to begin with.  You, and others like you, want to go back to the "predators rule" days.  The rest of us and, thankfully, the developers, don't.

Perhaps you and the other predators should try a game that is truly law of the jungle.  Lineage 2 was never intended to be that, and Classic will not be that.  Unfortunately, it will be play to win, but that's a whole different issue. 

By the way, I tried WOW and hated it.  Lineage 2 forever.

Did you ever play beta, prelude, c1, c2? 

Anything before c3 could not be described as anything other than law of the jungle.  Just because the game changed since then (and it did), does not mean you can undo history because you didn't like it.  It does not take two years to "realize" that predators were spoiling the game for others, which is roughly how long it was before those hardcore elements were removed, even longer for some.  Any Developer sprint cycle takes a few weeks at best, read into Agile Project Management, which is what most software companies have been using for a decade.

The predator style is how all Korean MMOs were in the 2000s, it was not done by accident.  Those "features" were developed out over a period of years, there was not a "oops" moment.

There's an argument for being shitty like current retail, or being hardcore like old L2, because truly the game appears to be a mixture of the two styles/games.  So far, overall I love what they are doing with it, though I disagree with a few minor details they are unimportant

Edited by FatHips

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chT    1

 

I've been playing Lineage 2 since 2005 and the game teaches me how many efforts we need to do, crafting, levelling..even keep the friendship with people for years. Then I can't really understand the mind of some people here. Auto pick man?! Please! It's a classic server and the staff are considering so many aspects to improve the game, as far as we know their aim is getting profit with VIP system etc. I will not complain about that. Lineage 2 at the end of the day for NCSoft is just more one of their business and everyone's know. Considering auto pick for normal or whatever they are it's unfair for 'classic' gaming experience. 

 

 

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Lawman    147

I started at C1, and welcomed the improvements that slowed down the predators as the improvements were rolled out.  I'm glad they are included here.  I'm not undoing history.  The game did start out law of the jungle, but that's not what the developers intended.  Or if they did intend it, they quickly changed their minds (perhaps because they saw that the victims of the predators were leaving en mass).  The proof of that is that they changed the game to put a stop to "predators rule" as everyone knows and you acknowledge.  That's the true history, not some revisionist version.

Think of what would happen if the new Classic were truly law of the jungle.  As first there would be chaos, as the new players, attracted by F2P, would be victimized over and over.  The predators would LOVE it.  But the victims would quickly leave in disgust, leaving only the predators to prey on each other.  It's likely, but not certain, that the server would then close because there wouldn't be enough predators to support it or they'd simply get tired of preying on each other.  It's also possible, though I think unlikely, that there would be enough predators to keep at least one server going.  Clearly, though, NCWest doesn't want to take that chance.  They'd rather not set up the game in a way that would cause most of the player base to leave within weeks of it launching.

I like that.  You don't.  That's okay.  Disagreements make things interesting.

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TrOLLw    62
51 minutes ago, Lawman said:

Oldjohn, I've been here 15 years and don't plan on going anywhere.  I love L2 more than you can imagine.  I'm an addict.  Don't try to tell me where I belong.  It's just that, unlike you, I can recognize improvements when they are introduced and believe that some of them should be included in the Classic game.  Nothing ever stays the same and quality of life improvements, as they are called, should be included.  I haven't noticed you suggesting that we go back to enabling soulshots before every hit.

I think the truth boils down to this.  Lineage 2 was never intended to be, as one player put it, the law of the jungle and predators rule.  Once the developers realized that predators were using the game to spoil it for others, they changed the rules of the game to try and make it what they wanted it to be to begin with.  You, and others like you, want to go back to the "predators rule" days.  The rest of us and, thankfully, the developers, don't.

Perhaps you and the other predators should try a game that is truly law of the jungle.  Lineage 2 was never intended to be that, and Classic will not be that.  Unfortunately, it will be play to win, but that's a whole different issue. 

By the way, I tried WOW and hated it.  Lineage 2 forever.

A Korean game based on a medieval feudal system about territory control, castles, politics, diplomacy, clan wars in an open sandbox, non-instanced world is not based on the law of the jungle?  Have you not seen lord of the flies?

What red commie hand holding socialist values are you trying to instill in a video game meant to be fun?  You're offended by the word predator in a virtually coded world? For every predator there's a community that will come together against them.  Band together with a group of players that espouse your virtues and protect the open sandbox game from these horrible morally corrupt "predators" who, omg hit you in a video game. Don't ask for handouts from the Developers, you food stampin' disability check cashin' open border SOB.

What are your next ideas? Transgendered non-binary classes, undefined class roles and neutral skill sets to avoid stereotyping daggers? An XP for all system where the higher levels xp grind and give 50% xp to the bottom levels? LETS GIVE EVERYONE A TROPHY WHILE WE'RE AT AND SCREW IT, NO PVP, SO WE CAN GRIND TO 70, REALIZE THERES NOTHING TO DO AND LOG OFF.

I was there at the beginning of lineage and saw all the whining I couldn't experience in game? Why cause when someone came at me I knew I had 3 choices,  Engage them, leave the area or call some back up.  If all 3 didn't work I'd go do something else for a bit and come back.  I didn't come to the forums with my red liberal swinging flag asking for the developers to put time outs into the game cause my fragile ego can't take that another player engaged me in a game that gave you swords, daggers and bows.

I saw this game ruined by BSOE's, CP pots and quick heal pots for the carebears.

Edited by TrOLLw
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Lawman    147

Just for the record, I loved the game; hated the predators.  But I survived, and even prospered, as an officer in a castle-owning clan even while the game was still law of the jungle.  I was even a hero with a little help from my friends  And I never once used a cheat program or preyed on anyone else to get there.  

I must admit to feeling a bit of selfish pleasure watching the predators whine, and some come unglued completely, because their hopes that predators would rule a new jungle have been dashed, or at least a bit curtailed. 

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FatHips    237
23 minutes ago, Lawman said:

I started at C1, and welcomed the improvements that slowed down the predators as the improvements were rolled out.  I'm glad they are included here.  I'm not undoing history.  The game did start out law of the jungle, but that's not what the developers intended.  Or if they did intend it, they quickly changed their minds (perhaps because they saw that the victims of the predators were leaving en mass).  The proof of that is that they changed the game to put a stop to "predators rule" as everyone knows and you acknowledge.  That's the true history, not some revisionist version.

Think of what would happen if the new Classic were truly law of the jungle.  As first there would be chaos, as the new players, attracted by F2P, would be victimized over and over.  The predators would LOVE it.  But the victims would quickly leave in disgust, leaving only the predators to prey on each other.  It's likely, but not certain, that the server would then close because there wouldn't be enough predators to support it or they'd simply get tired of preying on each other.  It's also possible, though I think unlikely, that there would be enough predators to keep at least one server going.  Clearly, though, NCWest doesn't want to take that chance.  They'd rather not set up the game in a way that would cause most of the player base to leave within weeks of it launching.

I like that.  You don't.  That's okay.  Disagreements make things interesting.

You have a bizarre definition of quickly, quickly took two years or more.  I think it's more that their player population evolved and they reacted to the market (for the reasons you mentioned), rather than the other way around.

Aside from that you're right on all of it, and I understand the logic of it, you're also probably right it is a better move for the sustainability in the longer term to offer some protections.  I don't disagree, I just don't want it to end up the completely garbage carebear style of the current game.  That is also unsustainable and a dangerous slope.

Agreed about disagreements, but I acknowledge your points.

Also to the OP -- I suspect that auto pick up is related to the VIP system's technical integration of increased rates.

100 adena drops, 2 man party, 50/50 right? nope, 50/75 because one of you has a 50% drop boost.  I suspect that's the mechanics behind it. There isn't much they can do about actual drops, I suspect those are watered down like on retail.

They could have also integrated it as a 50% boost to the same ratio of who has boosts, much like they did drop runes on retail, but this actually gives more people more incentive to buy VIP status.  Also it allows VIP'ers to party with non-VIP'ers and not be penalized. 

If it's not that, I don't get why they would do it, other than lag issues.

Edited by FatHips
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Lawman    147

Thanks for the reasonable post, FatHips.  You're right about the timing.  It took more time that I remember for things to play out, the developers to realize the need for change, and to develop & implement the changes.  And, the changes came gradually.

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TrOLLw    62
41 minutes ago, Lawman said:

Just for the record, I loved the game; hated the predators.  But I survived, and even prospered, as an officer in a castle-owning clan even while the game was still law of the jungle.  I was even a hero with a little help from my friends  And I never once used a cheat program or preyed on anyone else to get there.  

I must admit to feeling a bit of selfish pleasure watching the predators whine, and some come unglued completely, because their hopes that predators would rule a new jungle have been dashed, or at least a bit curtailed. 

To use a platitude I'm sure everyone is familiar, there can't be heroes without villians.  In this game, its not a writer that makes the villians for you as some ORC raid boss.  These villians are real and you should prepare. 

I know of one villain coming who lives in Michigan, drinks nothing but led water from the Flint River not because he can't afford bottled water, but because he believes whatever doesn't kill him makes him stronger.  He's a ginger haired monster driving an unregistered 1982 cream colored Pontiac Bonneville with rusted out wheel wells. The trunks lined with plastic not because he plans on killing anyone, but because one day he might have too.  When this guy sits down to play L2 Classic, he closes the particle chip board door to his room and padlocks the swing clasp for days at a time so his 10 screaming hungry children can't bother him as he levels, shirtless wearing acid washed jeans that haven't been washed since the 90's....

He does this with one sole purpose, to make the internet cry.

So you petition for as much carebear change as you can on these boards before Wednesday, Lawman, cause El Gingero is coming.

Disclaimer: ingame. and probably not.

 

 

Edited by TrOLLw

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FatHips    237
49 minutes ago, Lawman said:

Thanks for the reasonable post, FatHips.  You're right about the timing.  It took more time that I remember for things to play out, the developers to realize the need for change, and to develop & implement the changes.  And, the changes came gradually.

Don't get me wrong, I think the game was in its best shape give or take around Interlude, I never played any Private servers so my knowledge of the patches is 10 years old at this point and they all blend together.  When someone knows the difference you know they hopped around the private scene, or are autistic.

@TrOLLw This is true, and while I agree from an individual perspective that I want almost all of the old hardcore elements, the reality is the current MMO population is where NC has to pull its playerbase from, and they are not the same group that made L2 popular 14 years ago.  There realistically has to be a compromise in order to maintain the server in the long run, which I think just about everyone wants.  So far, I think they're doing a good job, so kudos to @Juji, I watched the stream and I can tell the guy while he might be a "noob" in some players mind, he loves the game and has a passion for it, respect.  I suspect we have him to thank for us getting classic at all, just a suspicion I have.

Edited by FatHips

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Lawman    147

FatHips, I understand.  I know you want the hardcore elements that I don't.  That's the disagreement.  But you are also a realist, and I respect that.  

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TrOLLw    62
42 minutes ago, FatHips said:

Don't get me wrong, I think the game was in its best shape give or take around Interlude, I never played any Private servers so my knowledge of the patches is 10 years old at this point and they all blend together.  When someone knows the difference you know they hopped around the private scene, or are autistic.

@TrOLLw This is true, and while I agree from an individual perspective that I want almost all of the old hardcore elements, the reality is the current MMO population is where NC has to pull its playerbase from, and they are not the same group that made L2 popular 14 years ago.  There realistically has to be a compromise in order to maintain the server in the long run, which I think just about everyone wants.  So far, I think they're doing a good job, so kudos to @Juji, I watched the stream and I can tell the guy while he might be a "noob" in some players mind, he loves the game and has a passion for it, respect.  I suspect we have him to thank for us getting classic at all, just a suspicion I have.

See the problem is fathips, its a niche market, niche markets are quite prosperous.  It's a game based on player laissez-faire rules and that's the only reason to play.  Noone plays this game because the graphics, the raiding experience is top tier.  We're not going to keep a populated server by changing key mechanics to benefit the few.

I'm not sure how this discussion turned into question Juji's take on the game.

From what I see Juji is a fan of the game and realizes this, as evidence there has been no changes that take any thing away from the core aspects of this game.  The drop on white feature, was such a minor affect on gameplay that removing on the analysis of data showing it as primarily a griefing tool while disappointing, is understandable.  This doesn't change the fact that it should still be in, as a game that offers little written story line and content above grinding the same skinned mobbed for 60 levels.

 In the long run, what players have to understand is that dirtbag ks'ing you doesn't affect you, he's giving you content.  In the long run, you are not a unique snowflake and if your ego can't handle that other players play the game differently and you can't find in game solutions, than this isn't the game for you.  WoW does it better than anyone. 

Juji I think realizes that he can't compete in the MMO market by doing the cookie cutter WoW appeal to all, protect the whiners.  This game happens and evolves around the grind.

So I understand you trying to give reasonable answers to liberal dirtbags, reasonableness has only showed to empower these socialist scumbags that choose to seek ingame solutions to good game mechanics by seeking out of game petitions to make it more "safe".

This lawman doesn't want to play lineage 2.  He wants to impose real life morality on a game that wasn't built for him. He has plenty of alternatives.

Edit: And can you stop @ing everyone like you're twittering gods word. ty.

Edited by TrOLLw

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Oldjohn    5
3 hours ago, Lawman said:

Just for the record, I loved the game; hated the predators.  But I survived, and even prospered, as an officer in a castle-owning clan even while the game was still law of the jungle.  I was even a hero with a little help from my friends  And I never once used a cheat program or preyed on anyone else to get there.  

I must admit to feeling a bit of selfish pleasure watching the predators whine, and some come unglued completely, because their hopes that predators would rule a new jungle have been dashed, or at least a bit curtailed. 

Look Lawman, I think I was a bit rude with you in my first post, and I want to apologize, it was childish even.

 

    I'll tell you briefly why I think things this way.

    I'm a 37 old guy(named John), who plays video games since Atari, having almost every shit that was released like TurboGrafx16.

   The game I most loved to play in my whole life was L2, and I played till C3, It was amazing, unbelievable graphics for the time being, freedom and danger everywhere.

   I never thought at that time that would ever be something better than that(and I was right), what you call "PREDATORS", I used to call "CHALLENGING".

   So as a very old returning player, I feel very sad the more people take away what made me happy, and puke more and more "new" stuff.

   Again, I never meant to be toxic, I believe in democracy, that being said, if the majority of the player base wants "auto loot" and to take away "drop on death", 

  I'll respect and uphold.

   But if feel that the majority wants the same as I do, I'll fight like a Lion to make things right.

    Cheers.

   

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