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Class "Revamp" – Sigel Knight


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7 hours ago, N4zgul said:

and about dual class skills for pvp tank setup?.... :)

some said full hp, other said go 12% pdef/mdef dual class skill....

 

Depends on how many HP SA your weapon Has to reach max posible. If not bloody weapon, go full HP dual.
For oly it might help more 12% pdef/mdef due to damage calculation, but in general HP is better. In open pvp and pve you need to reach as high as possible..(150k Hp)

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On 2/20/2018 at 8:45 PM, Irlumir said:

 

Depends on how many HP SA your weapon Has to reach max posible. If not bloody weapon, go full HP dual.
For oly it might help more 12% pdef/mdef due to damage calculation, but in general HP is better. In open pvp and pve you need to reach as high as possible..(150k Hp)

with full hp weapon and rose and right sa's i think a tank can reach easy max hp cap. some tanks use str dies for reset mastery/ud's/oly time and so on, and prolly goes full hp dual class skill, or choose con/cha dies and go 12% pdef/mdef way i think. ^^ 

my question what is better for open field pvp.

 

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6 hours ago, N4zgul said:

with full hp weapon and rose and right sa's i think a tank can reach easy max hp cap. some tanks use str dies for reset mastery/ud's/oly time and so on, and prolly goes full hp dual class skill, or choose con/cha dies and go 12% pdef/mdef way i think. ^^ 

my question what is better for open field pvp.

 

Thouse nasty " you can not name" block me from post till 28th feb due complain on the circlet.... well to topic

Like i say, on open pvp / pve full hp is the way to go and you will not reach it with full HP weapon only.

You can have 150k, without bloody option, with rose with full con + dual hp + 3 SA HP. 

Without dual class skill in HP that will not happend. (ofcourse outside of event)

PPl that get high hp with str dyes or without dual class skill use other buffs like the old pow or valliant scrolls, not only rose......
 

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Man, ppl gonna hate me saying this however, it has to be done.

As far PvE goes ALL TANKS i say again ALL TANKS can effectively tank ALL AREAS in the game if the gear, AP and skillset is being used in the correct manner.

 Now here comes the fine details, if you have a +8 bloody hvy set with bloody cutter (SAs:  HP/ HP/Atk Spd , Siegel) and your AP are set for max Pdef/ Mdef at lvl 102 you can tank anywhere in the game. The +8 plain or dark with 3rd SAs and same AP set up at 102 ( with no fear) can tank also.

 However, if your 101 with +6 or lower its a difficult task to tank all areas, and requires a certain level Kill power from the DDs to keep the momentum going or your done. If your 99 you need to stay close to the shore or you might drown.

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4 hours ago, OMEGALIGHT said:

Man, ppl gonna hate me saying this however, it has to be done.

As far PvE goes ALL TANKS i say again ALL TANKS can effectively tank ALL AREAS in the game if the gear, AP and skillset is being used in the correct manner.

 Now here comes the fine details, if you have a +8 bloody hvy set with bloody cutter (SAs:  HP/ HP/Atk Spd , Siegel) and your AP are set for max Pdef/ Mdef at lvl 102 you can tank anywhere in the game. The +8 plain or dark with 3rd SAs and same AP set up at 102 ( with no fear) can tank also.

 However, if your 101 with +6 or lower its a difficult task to tank all areas, and requires a certain level Kill power from the DDs to keep the momentum going or your done. If your 99 you need to stay close to the shore or you might drown.

Lol thats what all have say. And for elven aoe you need at least 103 and 135k hp at least. 

For other areas yea can go with less.  More than bloody full hp for pve is a lot more usefull. 

Ap pdef / mdef is not optimal,  a lot better HP. Now if you have bloody / dark option, evas rune, and use pow or similar buff for sure go pdef/mdef cause you will be maxed on HP. If not go full HP.

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   At 102 you get sufficient AP to make a proper set up, at 104 your set as far AP are concern. Mdef is extremely important against debuffs, this occurs frequently in elven. Also the Bloody gear set up adds 20% Dmg mitigation and adds 10% HP so using rose (normal or barrier) is more than enough to sit at 130k ish HP. 

   Now if you add the cape, circlet and jewels for brooch, there is absolutely no reason to have CON in your AP set up once 150k HP is ok. Now having that Pdef/Mdef boost, along with your items is a balance that keeps your tank funcional for all events. This is of course my opinion, not trying to impose,  just help, thank you. 

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26 minutes ago, OMEGALIGHT said:

   At 102 you get sufficient AP to make a proper set up, at 104 your set as far AP are concern. Mdef is extremely important against debuffs, this occurs frequently in elven. Also the Bloody gear set up adds 20% Dmg mitigation and adds 10% HP so using rose (normal or barrier) is more than enough to sit at 130k ish HP. 

   Now if you add the cape, circlet and jewels for brooch, there is absolutely no reason to have CON in your AP set up once 150k HP is ok. Now having that Pdef/Mdef boost, along with your items is a balance that keeps your tank funcional for all events. This is of course my opinion, not trying to impose,  just help, thank you. 

I think we have here a lang issue. Basically you say the samething i do but let be clear for others

1.  priority is HP. If you have multiple gears that add hp beyond 150k on rose then you can change /switch bonuses like dual skilk or dye to boost other things.

2. Mdef dont have anything to do with landing rates defences.. And in pve thouse fears lands regardless gear.....  Landing rates is base on Con / Men and % modifiers.

3. 130k Hp is ok but you stilk have 20k more HP to go, if not maxed a lot better boost HP on dual than pdef/mdef. The only place where the boost of pdef/mdef will be better is oly. The main reason is heals you recive are related on how much HP you have, like progressive or chain heals. Also,  the boost is mayor on surv due shield defence and fixed items pdef. The12% you can get for lvl 4 ap will be a lot less in damage reduction than the 12% stated. Now, on this patch it stack nice with raise shield, but still better HP if not maxed.

For sure bloody gear on a defensive tank will not demand to have the best combination of boost,  but like i say,  if you want to have a char that can do almost all game content, without bloody gear,  the best is that. Maximize HP and damage reduction as much as posible, then element def, then pdef, in pririty order.

I see bloody geared tank fail cause of low HP setup ( tauti without sigel Sa for example...)

Also you can benefit for the most HP setup with healing boost items. It really makes Healers job easy and   makes you tankier on pve. Im 104 btw and use to play with ST and ET.  My gear is not bloody.

Anyway, regardless your config i think,  as advice, is better to set priority,  and thouse are

1. HP with a min goal of 125k. Main reason is heal related skills and boost items,  stack massive.

2. Damage reduction items (pve/pvp)

3. Element def ( thats why most change to evas)

4. Pdef/mdef

On next patch they add another hp boost to sub skills and merge hp/mdef/cp boost into one skill only call condition, wich will add a lill extra cp to the surv pool.

Also will raise dual class skill to 105 with 3 more cert available, on 101, 103 and 105

That will allow to make other combinations..

 

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pretty much so yeah and btw to clarify right now I'm, like many others, stuck at 105 xp wall which is the main reason I went to the best PVP tank to help out clan while playing my dual class (stacked Tyrant) to help XP friends/ally members etc. but the moment the XP wall gets removed I will change back to main to play with Tank again :)

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  So did some digging , and based on what juji says M evasion is what decreases debuffs, could not find anything saying CON affects anything for debuffs.

http://boards.lineage2.com/showthread.php?t=246920

 

Based of the character basic characteristics, CON affects the following:

Max HP/CP,  HP/ CP recovery speed, weight limit, shield defense rate.

Now i did find out that  MEN does help the following:

M.Def, Max, MP and MP restoration speed, M. Cancel rate.

http://www.lineage2.com/en/game/patch-notes/goddess-of-destruction/character-changes/

 

Also the Character basic Combat Characteristics say this about M.def/ M.Evasion

M.def is the value of defense against magic attacks.

M.Evasion affects your ability to evade from M.attacks.

   So if you have a active skill debuffing your M.DEF then you need your M.Evasion to be High in order to effectively resist that attack.

 

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1 hour ago, OMEGALIGHT said:

  So did some digging , and based on what juji says M evasion is what decreases debuffs, could not find anything saying CON affects anything for debuffs.

http://boards.lineage2.com/showthread.php?t=246920

 

Based of the character basic characteristics, CON affects the following:

Max HP/CP,  HP/ CP recovery speed, weight limit, shield defense rate.

Now i did find out that  MEN does help the following:

M.Def, Max, MP and MP restoration speed, M. Cancel rate.

http://www.lineage2.com/en/game/patch-notes/goddess-of-destruction/character-changes/

 

Also the Character basic Combat Characteristics say this about M.def/ M.Evasion

M.def is the value of defense against magic attacks.

M.Evasion affects your ability to evade from M.attacks.

   So if you have a active skill debuffing your M.DEF then you need your M.Evasion to be High in order to effectively resist that attack.

 

English is def your problem. You even link the source where it clearly says that CON and MEN affect directly phyz and mental mesmerize resistance..... Read again that link of basic stat and character changes and check table where shows what stats do before and after gods patch, pay attention to CON and MEN....

Anyway on pve that do not mather mob debuff lands almost all time...

Mevasion is just as phys evasion,  you can dodge magical damage.....

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2 hours ago, Irlumir2 said:

English is def your problem. You even link the source where it clearly says that CON and MEN affect directly phyz and mental mesmerize resistance..... Read again that link of basic stat and character changes and check table where shows what stats do before and after gods patch, pay attention to CON and MEN....

Anyway on pve that do not mather mob debuff lands almost all time...

Mevasion is just as phys evasion,  you can dodge magical damage.....

  Its funny to see, that while i can acknowledge CON/MEN help against debuffs, that I can also place what MEN tats cover. M.evasion is important also, M.def is just for looks. Also i placed the link because I am using references to my comments. 

   Just to be clear this was not and is not a jab at you, this is what i stated. Just please read what MEN tat covers, i pretty sure M.def is somewhere in that description. The debuffs you get in elven will not care about that CON!! Good conversation, tyvm.

 Note:  The reason why i said M.def was because of what happens after you get debuff against mobs in elven.  This affects  you even in PvP when they drop on you. 

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1 hour ago, OMEGALIGHT said:

  not understand

Just to be clear.....as this link says http://www.lineage2.com/en/game/patch-notes/goddess-of-destruction/character-changes/ 

Con gives phyz debuff resistance. And MEN gives mental debuff resistance.  Men also gives mdef, and other bonuses. But what is important is that gives mental debuff resistance ( about conversation) Since goddess-of-destruction debuff has work the same,  you have your base resistance that depend on CON for phyz and MEN for mental mesmerize,  over that apply your % modifiers on jewels, passives, etc. That is your resistance to debuff.  That's why  fighter sucks  on mental resistance due low MEN, regardless mdef or m.evasion.   What i dont understand is why you say CON do not have to do with debuff when,  on the offiicial website you link,  was the description of the stat that clearly says CON gives resistance to physical debuff....

Against magic mesmerize ofcourse CON has nothing to do. Is MEN stat what get involved there. But in your post you give false claims, or not accurate by saying literaly that CON has nothing to do with debuffs...

And yes MEN gives mdef but that mdef has nothing to do with mental debuff resistance,  is the stat itself....

The final statement you give is not clear... The note... Care to explain?

.. PS: M. Evasion help avoid magic damage and it is related to wit,  not men,  it will not.defend against debuff and on figher is really low, due bad WIT stat..

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   I was referring to the M.Dmg taken once the debuff landed. Majority of tanks have high P.def and M.def is flapping out in the wind.  Also mentioned that the items to increase your CON,  like cape, circlet and jewels are a must in order to run all P.def/ M.def.

   However, because we acutally explained and talked about this topic in detail, I believe this will help other players realize the importance of using the forums! That was all, i guess while M.def does not prevent you from getting Magical Debuffs, it does help the reduction of M.dmg that comes after.

   Now, that CON helps the Physical reducion or mitigation of abnormal state. Using clear dialogues learn something new everyday, ty.

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Well, I gotta be at the edge of what's needed for EV grind

1. Sexy HK 103

2. B.Apo 2SA, missing 3SA and Bloody/Dark (lf one but poor :( ). Dual on Phys trait and HP. So 97k with only Cat, 109k HP only Rose and 122k with both

3. Set B.Eternal +8/9/10

4. Others: Monkey Belt, Phys Shirt +6, CON acc, mid Epics, 2/3 Brooch, Longing, Abu1, Anakim

My experience in EV is: not super easy, but provided good support, proper party setup and decent DDs, I can even macro for long sessions even without Rose.

So my advice is: unless you are a super stacked Panzer, as a support you rely on what others can do and enhance their capabilities. The skill of the healer is a deciding factor, a proper Iss helps (keeps debuffing and doesn't die much) and the dmg output the size/flow of the groups

In short: know your char, know what the PT is capable of and don't chew more than you can swallow

 

I agree with Irlumir in the priorities and would add that, the more HP you can get from other sources to reach 150k HP in normal conditions (usually Rose), then you get yourself some extra points to play with your APs. I find that the more practical way to do little changes in your char

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On 26/2/2018 at 7:26 PM, Keoz said:

Well, I gotta be at the edge of what's needed for EV grind

1. Sexy HK 103

2. B.Apo 2SA, missing 3SA and Bloody/Dark (lf one but poor :( ). Dual on Phys trait and HP. So 97k with only Cat, 109k HP only Rose and 122k with both

3. Set B.Eternal +8/9/10

4. Others: Monkey Belt, Phys Shirt +6, CON acc, mid Epics, 2/3 Brooch, Longing, Abu1, Anakim

My experience in EV is: not super easy, but provided good support, proper party setup and decent DDs, I can even macro for long sessions even without Rose.

So my advice is: unless you are a super stacked Panzer, as a support you rely on what others can do and enhance their capabilities. The skill of the healer is a deciding factor, a proper Iss helps (keeps debuffing and doesn't die much) and the dmg output the size/flow of the groups

In short: know your char, know what the PT is capable of and don't chew more than you can swallow

 

I agree with Irlumir in the priorities and would add that, the more HP you can get from other sources to reach 150k HP in normal conditions (usually Rose), then you get yourself some extra points to play with your APs. I find that the more practical way to do little changes in your char

Yea you have ok gear and as you say healer is uber relevant. Me... well im the free knight xD patch in some cps and aid ppl in need, lvl from 102 to 104  patching in on clan CP and some randoms, and i get a lot of healers jaja so maybe i push to much on how much ya need to survive....... the worst time was once in Altar with a healer that think "balance" was the best heal he has... LOL..... To me healer, in pve, is a very basic class, with a good tank healer should spam progressive as only heal, then purge when needed and some mp recharge to DDs and thats it XD, for sure has a lot more resources to spam, but with that in a proper team is enough, really dont understand thouse healers thant don´t use progressive heals and spam other skills that restore nothing..

You can keep your Apo and add a mystic s.c , are a lot cheaper now (3.5b or so)  15% more HP and 5% damage reduction, very nice for little money.
I understand your dual phys trait, indeed for pvp is a must and i used to have it, but sadly on next patch it will be remove, they redo the dual skills and increase to lvl 105... here the link     http://lineage2.plaync.com/board/update/view?articleId=631946   for you to check ... so try to get pull enhancement augment into your sword to not lose that effective pulling with dual phys trait on pvp....  for sure that update will catch up in may or so......
I have something similar on gear, but with more HP, with rose i reach 140k and with cat +rose 150k  without bloody/dark weap.
Also a secret weapon i have =O, for pve i use healing boosting jewels, they stack awesome and provides a huge boost in endurance..  25% more healing boost is a lot on heavy aoe farming. if you add divine is 40% more healing...... progresive jump for 40% to 50-56% heals, very nice and noticiable. ( on 140k hp from 56k to 70k per heal) 

For sure team work is the key, also with other CC on party Elven is a lot easier. But with randoms or only CC you should boost HP and Hp recived, that is the most cost effective you can raise for pve.....  another hint , 2 tanks setup for AOE farming in Elven is very nice if you have good DDS. Tank aura, on tanks, Stack.. 2 evas add 200 more element defec to both tanks xD
Cheers

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@Irlumir I haven't checked news about future updates, I guess I'll see what's hot in Rochand one of these days, but in the translation of the link I still see what seems to be Phys/Mental Trait.

Funny you mention the thing with Balance, because I think that's the best healing skill. I've tried a bit of all the classes just to know how what they do and how they work, and timing balances in the most efficient way to heal, specially when the tank is absorbing most of the dmg. When I'm tanking, my HP is going low and I see I do have the Balance buff (meaning it's currently in cd), I start to consider my "oh shet" buttons, if the buff is not there, I know I can go from 10 to 90 in a sec in the right moment if the healer is competent enough ^^'

Progressive is the strongest heal, a no-brainer, but also really mana intensive skill that depending on party or situation can bring trouble if you just abuse that key, not to mention that Balance bypasses Undying while Progressive not :P. Now the introduction of Rebirth's Agathions from other party member kind of mitigate this problem. The longetivity of a party depends on how well the healer can manage his mana in between Rebirth's cd.

I've been with 2 healer setup in EV, 2 tanks sounds nice too, you also get extra cd reduction, and could probably let me macro more blatantly than with 2 healers xD

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Hi Keoz
Where do you see the phys trait skill ??   Table translated for the link provided.

Skill name Number of Certificates Required level effect
Dual Authentication - Attack One 1-4 Attack power / magic power increase (sequential increase)
Dual Authentication - Defense One 1-4 Increased armor / magic resistance (sequential increase)
Dual Authentication - Speed One 1-4 Attack / magic speed increase (sequential increase)
Dual Authentication - Condition One 1-4 HP / MP / CP increase (sequential increase)
Dual Authentication - Vampiric 2 One HP recovery with a certain probability when attacking
Dual Authentication - Physical 2 One Increased attack power, reduced armor / magic resistance
Dual Authentication - Magical 2 One Increases the magic power, defense / magic resistance decreases
Dual Authentication - Vital 2 One Vitality bonus
Dual Authentication - Recovery 2 One Reduces skill reuse time
Dual Authentication - Death 2 One Critical Damage, Physical / Magical Skill Critical Damage Increase
Dual Authentication - Fierce Rage 3 One Increases attack power with a certain probability when attacking
Dual Authentication - Master's Fury 3 One Increases the skill's power by a certain probability when attacking
Dual Authentication - Guardian Light 3 One Increases armor / magic resistance by chance when hit

 

About healing... is really hard to see an mp issue for healers.. maybe the 15% less mana consump. of evas aura is really nice, cause i never seen a healer with mp issues ( i do randoms also so been with lots of healers on places where you can see heavy healing like Elven.)  Balance is ok sure but will never keep you alive on heavy tanking, the only tool for that is progresive "the lightning heal " 
Well that´s not important at all, my point was the healing boost of jewels for pve, i think beats all. You turn your char, with almost no investment, in 25% more endurance.

Regards
 

 

 

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Dual Aut. - Physical

We gotta see what's the exact effect of that one.

Just yesterday I played with healers with mana problems and I have to adjust so we survive until the next Rebirth. But it could also be an issue of bad gameplay instead of gear.

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Lol kids make me laugh, everytime. The best part is that aizen is posting in here when he doesn't even know what a palus knight should be.

Lets say the things as they are. The role of the tank as a sk is closely related to the skills of the party healer. And an healer sometime, not everytime, has got mana issues unless there are 2 in the same party. I won't argue wich heal is the best to keep an sk with more than just 1 hp left since i've never played and healer 101+ but the truth is that a sk dies or lives, and so the party dies or lives, depending on what the healer is doing. No more no less. You can have as many hp bonuses as you want but if the healer sucks you will suck aswell.

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1st priority in tank is dmg reduction

2nd is pvp dmg reduction

3nd is element

4rd is mdef

5th pdef

.......

last of all is  hp

noone cares about your hp (reaching 150k that is the cap is quite easy especially if using cov) but even if you have 120k hp or 110k its not a problem 

cause average dmg you get in a pvp is rly low even if u fight against dragon weapons.

on my tank i use hp only on my 3sa weapon + 1 dye  and thats all (in  AP i avoid to choose Hp too)

the rest is pdef mdef boosts + mental attack land rate + reuse etc

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12 minutes ago, Quitted said:

Lol kids make me laugh, everytime. The best part is that aizen is posting in here when he doesn't even know what a palus knight should be.

Lets say the things as they are. The role of the tank as a sk is closely related to the skills of the party healer. And an healer sometime, not everytime, has got mana issues unless there are 2 in the same party. I won't argue wich heal is the best to keep an sk with more than just 1 hp left since i've never played and healer 101+ but the truth is that a sk dies or lives, and so the party dies or lives, depending on what the healer is doing. No more no less. You can have as many hp bonuses as you want but if the healer sucks you will suck aswell.

probably you havent play tank on last update so you dont have the full picture of the situation now .

atm tank isnt healer dependand as it used to be (i am sk) , ofc and healing is important but now tanks need have hands and use properly their defensive skills. if you play  correct your tank you are simply immortal on the battlefield you are the 1st that enters and the last that leaves

pvp parties never had mp issues on their healers i dont remember since when (especially after the agathion introduction 2 months ago noone cares about mp)

 

ps: sry for the double post

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Feedle well i was talking about pve setup party with 1 healer you are talking about pvp setup with 2 healers and all the p2w cra p.

Trust me if the healer goes afk while you are getting hit because he's speaking on the phone with his gf while you're in elven you simply die.

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