The Great Wall

[FatHips]

So, with the adena/drop rate horse already beaten to death, it's time to resurrect it and beat it down again, from a different angle that is actually very important and I have not yet seen discussed (I'll admit, I did not read 100% of all the posts).

Lets take what we know:

• Adena/Drop/Spoil rates appear to be anywhere from 1/10 to 1/3 of what they are on the EU classic version, on the server Skelth.  Many player testimonials have confirmed this, but more importantly, it has been empirically proven by @Maya here: 

 

• This has been proven not to be intended as the game's "original intent" by the PRIMA guide to Lineage II C1: http://www.lineage2media.com/Downloads/Lineage Ii - Prima Game Guide 2004.pdf
  • For example, spiders that everyone hunts for the Dark Elf Village adena quests drop between 80-110~ adena in C1, and they drop ~25 on Talking Island Server.

Whats the point of this post?

The real effect of the reduced drop rate has not been yet felt, only a few players are truly experiencing it yet. They are grinding out the upper 30s in NG gear maybe with a D weapon, this can be done but it is not fun, nor how the original game was intended to be played as hundreds of players will attest to, who played C1 and on.

Within a few weeks, a majority of the playerbase (especially those on melee classes) are going to get level 40 and have perhaps a D weapon (if they farmed a lot on alts) and their Moon Knight armor set.  This will be fine for a few levels, due to the power spike at level 40-44 with new skills.  Then those players are going to hit a wall.  A huge one.  They will no longer be able to kill any mobs but light blue, even with soulshots they cannot afford.  Eventually, dark blue.  Some will make alts and desperately try to farm small amounts of adena, most won't.  We will lose 90% of these players, myself perhaps included.  Only those who are either willing to spend $100s a month per account or are in the top 1% and can raid farm at that point will be willing to continue.

The result?

• Dead server, just like Chronos and Naia, and a dwindling playerbase, which is a damn shame, because I've missed this game in its true form for years and this is our best hope.

 

If the game is still not fixed before that point, we will lose our hardcore population, the more casual players will be gone long before 40.  Good luck with the re-launch, I don't think you'll have that much interest.

This is a situation of dire interest for NC.

 

*I am aware some of you love this "ultra hardcore" version of the game, I'm also guessing you're the same ones with 10k+ NCCoins on your account :-) But this is a post for the health of the server as a whole, not you (0.1% of players).  Consider yourself considered and bypassed.

@Juji @Hime @NCWest @anyonewhocanhelp

[Zace]

100% on the money.

[RickRoss]

Stop to mention c1-c2-c3-c9999 drop rates and info. Classic is something new and completely different.

In few weeks playerbase will reach 40 yes. They will need spellbooks that drop on epic chances. With current droprates this is impossible. Donators brag that this is how game used to be, no shots no soes. Yes in c1 maybe but this is classic not c1. For now they can buy shots NG and D grade maybe if they have weps. Plus if shots in store are mysterious with standart stats they give additional dmg more than shots from shops. And then the moment for C grade will come. You will never see C-B items with current drop/spoil rates. Game now is not hardcore, its broken.

[Aytrax]

There is a reason why the rates got changed in every single region that had their L2 classic release.

[Cally]

13 minutes ago, FatHips said:

Only those who are either willing to spend $100s a month per account or are in the top 1% and can raid farm at that point will be willing to continue.

 

Actually... paying won't save you from that wall....
The "pay to win" everyone is complaining does not exist. There is no real benefit to be VIP.
I bought the 30$ pack and once SS ingame... and I'm stuck with 20k adena on lvl20.

[dopaxe]

15 minutes ago, FatHips said:

So, with the adena/drop rate horse already beaten to death, it's time to resurrect it and beat it down again, from a different angle that is actually very important and I have not yet seen discussed (I'll admit, I did not read 100% of all the posts).

Lets take what we know:

• Adena/Drop/Spoil rates appear to be anywhere from 1/10 to 1/3 of what they are on the EU classic version, on the server Skelth.  Many player testimonials have confirmed this, but more importantly, it has been empirically proven by @Maya here: 

 

• This has been proven not to be intended as the game's "original intent" by the PRIMA guide to Lineage II C1: http://www.lineage2media.com/Downloads/Lineage Ii - Prima Game Guide 2004.pdf
  • For example, spiders that everyone hunts for the Dark Elf Village adena quests drop between 80-110~ adena in C1, and they drop ~25 on Talking Island Server.

Whats the point of this post?

The real effect of the reduced drop rate has not been yet felt, only a few players are truly experiencing it yet. They are grinding out the upper 30s in NG gear maybe with a D weapon, this can be done but it is not fun, nor how the original game was intended to be played as hundreds of players will attest to, who played C1 and on.

Within a few weeks, a majority of the playerbase (especially those on melee classes) are going to get level 40 and have perhaps a D weapon (if they farmed a lot on alts) and their Moon Knight armor set.  This will be fine for a few levels, due to the power spike at level 40-44 with new skills.  Then those players are going to hit a wall.  A huge one.  They will no longer be able to kill any mobs but light blue, even with soulshots they cannot afford.  Eventually, dark blue.  Some will make alts and desperately try to farm small amounts of adena, most won't.  We will lose 90% of these players, myself perhaps included.  Only those who are either willing to spend $100s a month per account or are in the top 1% and can raid farm at that point will be willing to continue.

The result?

• Dead server, just like Chronos and Naia, and a dwindling playerbase, which is a damn shame, because I've missed this game in its true form for years and this is our best hope.

 

If the game is still not fixed before that point, we will lose our hardcore population, the more casual players will be gone long before 40.  Good luck with the re-launch, I don't think you'll have that much interest.

This is a situation of dire interest for NC.

 

*I am aware some of you love this "ultra hardcore" version of the game, I'm also guessing you're the same ones with 10k+ NCCoins on your account :-) But this is a post for the health of the server as a whole, not you (0.1% of players).  Consider yourself considered and bypassed.

 

 

This is what i dont understand, the people defending these rates.. they cannot see past their current level - they are delusional and they will hit a wall and quit and realize why everyone else around them has also quit. leading to another failure by ncsoft.

[FatHips]

2 minutes ago, RickRoss said:

Game now is not hardcore, its broken.

Well put.

I'm aware it's not C1, but the argument by the "donators" is that this is the way the game use to be.  It is not, is the point of bringing up C1, etc. :-)

[FatHips]

2 minutes ago, Cally said:

Actually... paying won't save you from that wall....
The "pay to win" everyone is complaining does not exist. There is no real benefit to be VIP.
I bought the 30$ pack and once SS ingame... and I'm stuck with 20k adena on lvl20.

so you spent $45 and you're comparing to people who have dropped $300 in the game.  Have you seen the 30+ nuker parties? They're burning through money, my clan has a few and they are all contemplating quitting due to the cost, and they see the wall coming.

Pay to win? absolutely.  Is it as bad as L2 Live? No way.

This is a function of the free to play model.

[Cally]

1 minute ago, FatHips said:

so you spent $45 and you're comparing to people who have dropped $300 in the game.  Have you seen the 30+ nuker parties? They're burning through money, my clan has a few and they are all contemplating quitting due to the cost, and they see the wall coming.

I'm not getting your point there, sorry

[FatHips]

Just now, Cally said:

I'm not getting your point there, sorry

VIP is not effectively pay to win, its essentially a subscription with moderate benefits.  Technically, its paying for an advantage, but that advantage is slight -- to your point about being poor and low level.

The pay to win is loading up on level 50+ buffs and constant shots 24/7 in a game where that is not meant to be plausible.  This is something you have not yet done, but it does not mean other players are not doing it.

[dopaxe]

2 minutes ago, Cally said:

I'm not getting your point there, sorry

he/she means that itll be next to impossible (ie - climb over the wall of china)

[Cally]

2 minutes ago, FatHips said:

VIP is not effectively pay to win, its essentially a subscription with moderate benefits.  Technically, its paying for an advantage, but that advantage is slight -- to your point about being poor and low level.

The pay to win is loading up on level 50+ buffs and constant shots 24/7 in a game where that is not meant to be plausible.  This is something you have not yet done, but it does not mean other players are not doing it.

Well... yes, there is a benefit for the VIP.
But You still struggle to get equipment... you still have barely money...
But you can delay the wall by getting buffs and shots.

I did not pay 300 bucks like your friends there.... but the 45$ are literally for nothing...

[Reniesta]

Looking forward hearing from GMs if rates are going to be fixed. Don't you see the overflowing Pony Land? People re-rolling to summoners, because we want to stay afloat. I started EE and I am scraping money for gear omitting shots. Slaving that spider quest like there is no tomorrow. Terrified of spending 25k on a spellbook, when monsters drop tears and not adena. What's in future? Skills like Clarity that will cost arm and a leg, that if I ever get that book dropped. GL EVERYONE!

Morale: I want money/drop/spoils rate like desert wants rain. Atm my VIP is nothing more than a way to login without queue.

[Hatecraft]

Truth.

I see the low rate of adena drops, and the spoil rate is the same. Someone was mentioning there are level 20ish Mobs that give like 50 experience, but give like 70-80 adena. I'm gonna have to go look for those, because that is an option. Kill those suckers non-stop. I won't level (which is good because I am not ready) but I will have more adena.

Not a fix, just a thought to numb the pain.

[Siliarus]

17 minutes ago, Reniesta said:

Looking forward hearing from GMs if rates are going to be fixed. Don't you see the overflowing Pony Land? People re-rolling to summoners, because we want to stay afloat.

Yep, lvling my phantom summoner now...

Welcome to the L2 classic summoner server

Anyways, cant wait to hear *any* answer from the devs. Even if they say no just so that I can walk away on this steaming pile of classic.

[wildernessbox]

The clan i'm in right now has 3 chapters playing classic, or we did on launch, right now some are waiting on the changes, some of us are grimly holding on, but a lot are already leaving. We had about 120-130 players ready to go and about half of that are still active. Most of us have stopped trying to level really fast and are struggling to make due on the spider venom quest and the bear quest till we can either get lucky on drops. Not all of us are new either, we have people from the old l2, bartz, etc, it's affecting everyone regardless. The worst off are the people who wanted to play buffers or healers, they on top of shots and gear are looking at an extra 100k adena just to get their basic set of buffs.

[Lewt]

+1, very good post.

[Hatecraft]

See, and while I see their point in being upset at the low rates, I don't understand leaving due to it.

I mean, once they (if they I guess) fix the rates ... the problem is solved. Companies release games all the time, and later implement fixes. 

Why not stay and wait?

[dopaxe]

1 minute ago, Hatecraft said:

See, and while I see their point in being upset at the low rates, I don't understand leaving due to it.

I mean, once they (if they I guess) fix the rates ... the problem is solved. Companies release games all the time, and later implement fixes. 

Why not stay and wait?

everyone i talked to is waiting for next maintanance or official word, if no fix theyre all leaving

[wildernessbox]

Just now, dopaxe said:

everyone i talked to is waiting for next maintanance or official word, if no fix theyre all leaving

Pretty much this. There are new games being released in the next few months that will be more than enough to draw people away if there isn't a legitimate balance between the hardcore aspects in the game and the ability to progress.

[tpennell01]

2 minutes ago, dopaxe said:

everyone i talked to is waiting for next maintanance or official word, if no fix theyre all leaving

I am in the same boat. I loved the original L2, and I was looking forward to it (yes yes. It is NOT C1 w/e) I am going to look for a private server at this rate. At least there you are more likely to actually hear from a GM/Mod. This is absolutely unacceptable to not hear anything.

[JDawg]

17 minutes ago, Hatecraft said:

See, and while I see their point in being upset at the low rates, I don't understand leaving due to it.

I mean, once they (if they I guess) fix the rates ... the problem is solved. Companies release games all the time, and later implement fixes. 

Why not stay and wait?

Because the game isn't even slightly fun at current rate.  I'm lvl20 with 6k adena and a short bow that I alternate between with the sword you get from the quest at like lvl 9.  I spent 1k on short bow, and have bought a total of 1k wood arrows from shop for 2a each...so 2k adena spent on arrows.  I can't even afford wood arrows for my crappy short bow!  I'm not buying soulshots i'm using NCoin for that and I bought the launch pack.  At this rate it will take a lifetime to get the next best NG bow and it will still be very underwhelming unless I get some lucky drop  I played Lin2 at original launch.prelude and I never felt as dismal about the future as I do now in-game.  How could the drop rates be worse than original launch?  Least that is how it feels maybe i'm just not 16 anymore and don't have as much time to grind.

[Acantha]

1 hour ago, FatHips said:

VIP is not effectively pay to win, its essentially a subscription with moderate benefits.  Technically, its paying for an advantage, but that advantage is slight -- to your point about being poor and low level.

The pay to win is loading up on level 50+ buffs and constant shots 24/7 in a game where that is not meant to be plausible.  This is something you have not yet done, but it does not mean other players are not doing it.

I would say VIP is P2W right now just based on they can get right into the game without waiting in queue and getting dropped 32 times before you can get in. 

[SmileyCyrus]

19 minutes ago, JDawg said:

Because the game isn't even slightly fun at current rate.  I'm lvl20 with 6k adena and a short bow that I alternate between with the sword you get from the quest at like lvl 9.  I spent 1k on short bow, and have bought a total of 1k wood arrows from shop for 2a each...so 2k adena spent on arrows.  I can't even afford wood arrows for my crappy short bow!  I'm not buying soulshots i'm using NCoin for that and I bought the launch pack.  At this rate it will take a lifetime to get the next best NG bow and it will still be very underwhelming unless I get some lucky drop  I played Lin2 at original launch.prelude and I never felt as dismal about the future as I do now in-game.  How could the drop rates be worse than original launch?  Least that is how it feels maybe i'm just not 16 anymore and don't have as much time to grind.

While the 'great-wall'-argument itself may be valid, posts like these keep making me laugh. It is PERFECTLY possible, even at the current rates, to have about 25-30 adena on lvl 20 at least. If you don't, you are simply not playing the game correctly. I definately wouldnt be surprise if the biggest part of the group complaining are people like this. First get your own things sorted out, then come complain again. 

Hell this guy I quoted is even using ss from NCshop AND has launchpack. Dude, did you care to lookup what mobs drop arrows once in a blue moon?

[J0nSnow]

Maybe instead of rushing through levels, people should be farming certain adena making quests, and pooling resources with thier cp members? It’s really not that difficult, just time consuming, but that is lineage 2.