The Great Wall

[Oreoloveboss]

Spot on. So many people are missing the mark when they think people are complaining about rates, it has nothing to do with EXP rates, it has to do with the rate you earn adena versus the rate you spend it on soulshots, they don't lineup, there is a significant deficit to push players to buy soulshot packs. It's all by design, that's why they give you the free armor sets and weapons so they can continue to keep you adena starved and looking at your wallet.

 

You people are nuts if you think back in C1 at level 30 you were spending more money on NGshots than you earned by grinding. It's literally an RPG where it cost more money to go kill monsters in the most moderately efficient way than you actually earn back from killing those monsters, and peopel are defending it. Stupid.

[Rodah]

Just now, Reniesta said:

That is what we are pinned to do! it's all great and resourceful but I don't think that even in such a grindfest as L2 is, we are supposed to jump that many hoops and loops. 

I can see some diehards going at it. So maybe I'll quit for a few months and let pioneers build a path lol. I want a healthy server with Live people. That's all.

I agree we "shouldn't" have to do this.  BUT, getting to 20 is SO SO SO easy I kinda think it's worth it. 

[Krissa]

@FatHips, actually, the wall can wait. Krators, Blood Marks, clans level 3, clan wars with 2.5% exp loss at 40+...

[FatHips]

@RodahNice idea, way to crash the iron market  kidding, it's this kind of ingenuity that helps, and it will give a competitive advantage to those who can manage to grind it out, which is good.

That said, it's a bandaid, not a solution.  Not enough players will be willing to do that to sustain the population of this server.

[Snoozel]

16 minutes ago, SmileyCyrus said:

@Snoozel

You may be richer than me, i don't know, but chances are high. Simply because you are playing in a cp and I play solo. That however also means the problems you are experiencing are probably even worse at my side. 

It 1 thing is very clear, it is that a lot of player's expectations do not match the reality. Most of these expectations seem to be based on a few marketing lines about 'reliving the old days'. What I wonder is, how many of the players that started here and see their expectations not being met actually played on any classic (eu or freeshard) before? How many did read into the hardcoreness of classic beforehand? How many just assumed it would be an exact remake of c1-c4 just based on a few marketing sentences?

No, I dont mean to say anyone should have expected 1/7 rates like you put it. Also I dont mean to say that people should play with these rates. What I do mean to say is, stop comparing and just treat it like something completely new. Because that is exactly what it is. And you either like that, or you don't. 

 

edit: Fun fact: You claim to be hunting mobs at lvl 30 that give 9a to each player. With a full (I assume, since you speak of CP) party, that would be 81 adena each mob. Somewhere outside dwarven village there are lvl 20+ mobs that drop 80-100 each mob too. Guess you are hunting the wrong mobs. 

I am sure you are experience more problems than me

I think it has been well documented how this server compares to other "classic" servers.

No1 expected it to be an exact remake, but they expected it realistic.

The fact is PPL are saying, you are lvling too fast and the adena can't keep up, but ncsoft wants u to buy VIP 4 and xp scrolls, so why wouldn't they encourage that? Why would they punish the people that want to give them money? It doesn't make any sense. Why would someone keep spending money if it hurt them ingame? lol 

And honestly I dont care if they change things or not (i'll quit if they don't though) but its the total silence from GM's on the subject that's the most disappointing. The only reason I'm playing is I think NC will do the reasonable thing and up the drop rate. So I wish they would let us know one way or the other, so i can most likely quit sooner ha.

[dopaxe]

2 minutes ago, Snoozel said:

I am sure you are experience more problems than me

I think it has been well documented how this server compares to other "classic" servers.

No1 expected it to be an exact remake, but they expected it realistic.

The fact is PPL are saying, you are lvling too fast and the adena can't keep up, but ncsoft wants u to buy VIP 4 and xp scrolls, so why wouldn't they encourage that? Why would they punish the people that want to give them money? It doesn't make any sense. Why would someone keep spending money if it hurt them ingame? lol 

And honestly I dont care if they change things or not (i'll quit if they don't though) but its the total silence from GM's on the subject that's the most disappointing. The only reason I'm playing is I think NC will do the reasonable thing and up the drop rate. So I wish they would let us know one way or the other, so i can most likely quit sooner ha.

Ya the weekend has come and gone and still no response. Innova should open new server after such a failure of ncsoft the hype here might be good for them

[Reniesta]

15 minutes ago, Rodah said:

I agree we "shouldn't" have to do this.  BUT, getting to 20 is SO SO SO easy I kinda think it's worth it. 

Uhm, waiting for mana is not fast, I would kill myself if that was my only l2 client to play. Also it's not like it's going to be a fresh account every time with 3k free SS. And wait time to log your non-VIP box? I spend 3h trying to click my pin fast enough on a Sunday due to power glitch. So I disagree with sososo easy, but maybe it's just me, idk! Made it to 18 in a day...

[Leemado]

Meanwhile, on the other side of the wall:

Back on topic... Im holding off to see if there are changes coming with the new maintenance, doing the same quest a hundred times and de-leveling in the process to be able to do it is not my idea of fun. I now it is a grinding game and i always liked that (played circa 2004 ~ 2007) but this is where i draw the line.

I know some people like the server as it is right now and won't fight them, but you also have no right to call me (or whoever disagrees with the current status of the server) a crybaby for expressing my opinion. I'm a paying customer and they sold me this "thing" as a return to the original lineage, nostalia and all the marketing crap.

[Valdie]

I've said it in other threads, when you throttle spoil rates to 25% and drop rates to 25%, you will need a MASSIVE player base to sustain a proper Lineage 2 economy.

 

 

[Awep]

3 minutes ago, Valdie said:

I've said it in other threads, when you throttle spoil rates to 25% and drop rates to 25%, you will need a MASSIVE player base to sustain a proper Lineage 2 economy.

 

 

NCsoft's  concept of massive is 6k players per server including boxxes, bots and afks

What do you expect

[piktasdede]

Hm someone explain is this rly rly so good as you guys claim 1h pure farm with mage 378 mobs killed rats in elven fortress as lvl 22 -23 mage VIP 4 btw .

Got 4 items droped 2 of them silver coins 2 animal skins and whole 3k adena ! i mean rly this is not suspicious to all white knights out there?

 

 

[FatHips]

18 minutes ago, Valdie said:

I've said it in other threads, when you throttle spoil rates to 25% and drop rates to 25%, you will need a MASSIVE player base to sustain a proper Lineage 2 economy.

 

 

It's not possible, because its a catch 22, you need a large player base to sustain this broken economy (I argue that may be mathematically impossible anyways), but a large player base will never continue to play the way it is.

[FatHips]

bump for @Hime since they are reading forums now yay

[ZodiacArg]

i can't get my mind around that some ppl still defend the adena rates at this point. i feel like i'm taking crazy pills right now... waiting for news about the adena rates, if not, i'm leaving. This f@ckers won't get more money from me anymore.

[FatHips]

4 minutes ago, ZodiacArg said:

i can't get my mid around that some ppl still defend the adena rates at this point. i feel like i'm taking crazy pills right now... waiting for news about the adena rates, if not, i'm leaving. This f@ckers won't get more money from me anymore.

Yeah i'm pretty upset about it too.  I would likely keep playing as I invested about $200 in four VIP accounts to start, but I don't think I will spend another dime until they address these major issues.

I was sooooooooooooooooo HYPED about this release, I basically got all of Nova back into playing, NC should be paying me

But me and the rest of Nova are losing our Hype, fast.

[dopaxe]

59 minutes ago, FatHips said:

It's not possible, because its a catch 22, you need a large player base to sustain this broken economy (I argue that may be mathematically impossible anyways), but a large player base will never continue to play the way it is.

not only that, but the larger player base consumed more material it just doesnt work out either way, its simple they need to increase the rate

 

theres no other way around it. 

[FatHips]

2 minutes ago, dopaxe said:

not only that, but the larger player base consumed more material it just doesnt work out either way, its simple they need to increase the rate

 

theres no other way around it. 

Technically it could sustain if there was a constant influx of new players, older players quitting and passing on their adena to newer.  That way the adena per player rate would always be going up.

But more players will quit than start starting very shortly.

[GoNoles69]

6 hours ago, FatHips said:

So, with the adena/drop rate horse already beaten to death, it's time to resurrect it and beat it down again, from a different angle that is actually very important and I have not yet seen discussed (I'll admit, I did not read 100% of all the posts).

Lets take what we know:

• Adena/Drop/Spoil rates appear to be anywhere from 1/10 to 1/3 of what they are on the EU classic version, on the server Skelth.  Many player testimonials have confirmed this, but more importantly, it has been empirically proven by @Maya here: 

 

• This has been proven not to be intended as the game's "original intent" by the PRIMA guide to Lineage II C1: http://www.lineage2media.com/Downloads/Lineage Ii - Prima Game Guide 2004.pdf
  • For example, spiders that everyone hunts for the Dark Elf Village adena quests drop between 80-110~ adena in C1, and they drop ~25 on Talking Island Server.

Whats the point of this post?

The real effect of the reduced drop rate has not been yet felt, only a few players are truly experiencing it yet. They are grinding out the upper 30s in NG gear maybe with a D weapon, this can be done but it is not fun, nor how the original game was intended to be played as hundreds of players will attest to, who played C1 and on.

Within a few weeks, a majority of the playerbase (especially those on melee classes) are going to get level 40 and have perhaps a D weapon (if they farmed a lot on alts) and their Moon Knight armor set.  This will be fine for a few levels, due to the power spike at level 40-44 with new skills.  Then those players are going to hit a wall.  A huge one.  They will no longer be able to kill any mobs but light blue, even with soulshots they cannot afford.  Eventually, dark blue.  Some will make alts and desperately try to farm small amounts of adena, most won't.  We will lose 90% of these players, myself perhaps included.  Only those who are either willing to spend $100s a month per account or are in the top 1% and can raid farm at that point will be willing to continue.

The result?

• Dead server, just like Chronos and Naia, and a dwindling playerbase, which is a damn shame, because I've missed this game in its true form for years and this is our best hope.

 

If the game is still not fixed before that point, we will lose our hardcore population, the more casual players will be gone long before 40.  Good luck with the re-launch, I don't think you'll have that much interest.

This is a situation of dire interest for NC.

 

*I am aware some of you love this "ultra hardcore" version of the game, I'm also guessing you're the same ones with 10k+ NCCoins on your account :-) But this is a post for the health of the server as a whole, not you (0.1% of players).  Consider yourself considered and bypassed.

@Juji @Hime @NCWest @anyonewhocanhelp

Great post and well said. I for one am happy with the XP rates, but the drop rates are ridiculous. 

The ignorance of NC in this matter is laughable. If they think people will shell out $$ for NC Coin just to save money on buying shots and continue to play this game long term, they must of forgot the years of classic that have been played before NA Classic launched. I dont understand why NC would try to recreate the wheel. Classic Servers are thriving in russia and korea, and what does NC do? Change the server they are launching to benefit themselves in a cash grab scheme. 

I was so excited for this server to launch, and still am, and still have faith NC will fix this (hopefully by Wednesday). But the issues that have risen so far are embarrassing for this type of company. The things that have been wrong with the server initially (like reds not dropping gear on death) have been just purely idiotic and in no where wanted by the player base. 

I for one will not continue to play a server that demands me to spend $$  purely on supplies just to enjoy the game. NC needs to understand there are other servers for us to go too, and not to mention the popularity of classic private servers.

[Zevon]

Yah I believe they need to at least increase the adena drop rate. I remember grinding back in C1. You could at least afford a D grade weapon at level 20 or mid 20's. Nothing wrong with a grind but the adena rate now is bad. I mean when you don't even want to spend adena on a scroll of escape there's something wrong by design. I hope they at least fix this issue otherwise they will lose players fast.

[Oreoloveboss]

53 minutes ago, yum said:

you are not supposed to be able to afford constantly leveling with LUXURY soulshots. and what do you expect too at lv.30? you're supposed to have full dgrade armors and d grade weapon? get over it and level with nograde lmao can't believe the crying in OP's post.

Oh get out of here you yes-man. Yes you are supposed to level constantly with soulshots through level 30 and 40, that's what everyone did back in prelude in C1. It was only briefly when you were a noob at level 10 that you couldn't afford them and they were a 'luxury'. Did you people even play L2 back then?

 

And wtf are you going on about expecting d grade? No one expects that, wtf does that have to do with anything I said?

 

[beleaua]

7 hours ago, FatHips said:

Adena/Drop/Spoil rates appear to be anywhere from 1/10 to 1/3 of what they are on the EU classic version, on the server Skelth

someone asked for proof from korea and 4r4m made a short video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pD5uKUa5j50

it's a clear discrepancy imo

[Tetsuo]

100% on the money.
It doesnt take a rocket scientist to understand the adena/drop/spoil nerf, whilst perhaps not having massive implications right now at lower levels, will begin to compound as players move up level brackets.

The shortsightedness and greed on NCSoft/NCWests behalf beggars belief...
What do i want? I want to pay $15 per month to play and enjoy classic as it once was. I dont want this Frankenstein piece of trash designed to fleece gamers out of their hard earnt money!!!!!

And again, radio silence from Juji and Hime..... No communication on the issue, just some 'we are talking to the devs' bs.

[beleaua]

4 hours ago, Rodah said:

For the record, I completely agree with Fathips.  The future "wall" has me concerned.

 

Having said that; I will share a small "tip" that maybe some of you are unaware of.  Every character you get to lv20 = 25k~ Adena (at least).  When you hit lv20 you are given 20 Clan Coins.  These can be traded at any Grand Master for base mats.  For example; 20 Coins = 100 Iron Ore.  These are selling on TI for 175~ each so, 17.5k.  On a "fast" class getting to 20 takes a couple hours at most.  On the way you can knock out a few started village quest and have roughly 25k when you ding 20; rinse, repeat.  Recall how people did this for weightless SS when GoD launched so it's not new.  Another hint; don't pick human or dwarf (quest chain bottlenecks).

I did this on 5 toons and had about 180k for my main at 20.

 

Still, this doesn't address the big problem the OP pointed out..Keep thies thread going!!!! 

EDIT:  One of the "solutions" we will start to see is lots more RMTing by people who want to avoid the wall.  It's sad people will have to take this risk but it will happen.....

The problem is, this is very similar to live servers. You gain some adena by leveling up, you do farm on many alts, and when you hit 100 you realize the adena you need to buy the gear needed for 100+ content cost many billions, and all you collected so far are peanuts. At this point the majority of new players quit the live server.

In a similar way these hundreds of k of adena you farmed in the most efficient way with your methods won't cut it later levels on classic. Yep, that's the wall players will see it sooner or later.

[beleaua]

2 minutes ago, yum said:

bro this is L2 classic based off korea classic version not a 100% REMAKE of C1 dont u understand that? this is how it was on l2 classic korea..

l2 korea classic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pD5uKUa5j50

[XiuHCoaTL]

17 minutes ago, yum said:

bro this is L2 classic based off korea classic version not a 100% REMAKE of C1 dont u understand that? this is how it was on l2 classic korea..

you got no idea of what you are talking about.