Alexandrielle Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Just now, Friyan said: any answer about the dead penalty? None yet but I think you'll agree with me that if the adena rates etc are fixed then this becomes bearable for another week or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FatHips Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 5 minutes ago, Alexandrielle said: Bro the prima guide has been linked multiple times as irrefutable proof that old school l2 was not as hard as you like to think it was. Mobs dropped more gold in c1 than they do here. Stop thinking like we want an increase from 1x to 3x because it's not like that at all. We want the 0.25-0.33x we have to the 1x it should be. Fragola just streamed going 1-10 on jp classic and made double adena and more drops. People have compared this to eu and gotten 3-4x. You are playing Ethiopia simulator right now. Please stop defending it because you like to feel hardcore on the forums. The community will not repeat spider quest 50 times on multiple boxes for a weapon and you WILL end up on a dead server. I literally bleeping lost it. Well done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balerion Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, FatHips said: I prefer C1-C4 over whatever game you prefer This is classic Lineage II to me, and I'm willing to bet the vast majority of the population here. Unfortunately, from your perspective, you need us, we don't need you. I do not understand what you mean. C1-C4 is much harder than this I agree that the game has to be as before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FatHips Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 5 minutes ago, Buffalol said: Forget all these VIP and +% drop bullshit. Just do $15/month and keep the shit the way it was at release. this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawman Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Buffalol, I would support a subscription based classic server like Skelth. That is not the model NCWest has chosen and I doubt they will switch to it now. Great idea if they'd do it, though. Give everybody free months equal to the money they've spent so far, get rid of the L2Store, adjust the rates, and make all items available in game. Works for me. One other idea. I know some people don't like it, but if you added the auction house from the live game you could get rid of some of the buyers/sellers taking up slots in the game and make more room for people actively playing the game. It would be easier than introducing off-line stores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HachiKoF Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Por Favor Prioridad para logear al servidor Talking, gracias Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FatHips Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, Balerion said: I do not understand what you mean. C1-C4 is much harder than this I agree that the game has to be as before. He was referring specifically to farming adena, in which case it was easier. I had absolutely no idea what was I doing in prelude, and still managed to get a tarbar and full brig set on my Orc Raider at level 36 -- ~5 million adena. I played a month, and I played entirely solo. Farmed mos of that in rando cruma groups, and I even dropped my first weapon while red and rerolled an alt to farm adena to re-farm it. Because that was realistically possible. Like I could not have played less efficiently, and this was before C1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FatHips Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, Lawman said: Buffalol, I would support a subscription based classic server like Skelth. That is not the model NCWest has chosen and I doubt they will switch to it now. Great idea if they'd do it, though. Give everybody free months equal to the money they've spent so far, get rid of the L2Store, adjust the rates, and make all items available in game. Works for me. One other idea. I know some people don't like it, but if you added the auction house from the live game you could get rid of some of the buyers/sellers taking up slots in the game and make more room for people actively playing the game. It would be easier than introducing off-line stores. Or just remove fishing for non-VIP. Much easier and less game breaking. Also, if you remove some "features" you make the freemium version "lite" and you essentially default the game into a subscription model, without having to change business models officially. That's realistically probably their best option right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shepsky Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 I propose the following: VIP4 = 100% EXP/Adena/Drops/Spoil VIP3 = 90% EXP, 75% Adena/Drops/Spoil VIP2 = 80% EXP, 55% Adena/Drops/Spoil VIP1 = 70% EXP, 40% Adena/Drops/Spoil Free = 60% EXP, 25% Adena/Drop/Spoil This way, VIP4 will basically be a $15/mo subscription to get the normal rates while also maintaining the free to play model that NCSoft seeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeTime Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Some other Lineage 2 regions got +250% drop chance increase in their VIP system. So it is not entirely weird that some players ask for same results in our region. I've been checking some old Lineage 2 drop databases and in every single one of them them the Adena drop amount and Spoil chances are like ~3x, 6x to 10x times more (depending on in-game territories) of what we got right now in our version of Classic. Just to make an example the Twink Puma in our version is like 15-30 Adena, in any other C1/C2 database it's 90-180. Also we must consider that in our version you will take free starters gear. In the old Classic you had to gather all the Adena constantly and keep running back for the Grocery and Jewelry NPC every single time to upgrade your gear. You can't do that now, since the Adena you gather now even til Lv.30 won't allow you to purchase the full Devotion set, nor any of the NG jewelry. This is the part why most of the Players are complaining. I've been playing since 2003 and I know for a fact it is all wrong. Back in those days I could farm enough Adena constantly to purchase Weapon/Armor/Jewelry, but not enough to purchase Consumables, or Soulshots. Since you had to decide what you think was more important back in those days. Gear or Shots/SOE at the very beginning. I know for a fact that alot of Players will quit playing if NCwest don't fix their problems faster. Accounts being blocked for now reason. Master Accounts being investigation. NCoins not arriving. Support not able to handle the questions within 24 hours and so on. List is only growing at this point forward. Servers this crowded after opening week should have gotten more attention then the other NCsoft titles. Atleast for a month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexandrielle Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Just now, Lawman said: Alexandrielle, you are right an in principle I agree the rates should be raised. Remember, though, that those rates were payed for with a monthly subscription. How will they be payed for now, when the game is free to play? If the base game is completely satisfactory, no one will want to pay for VIP unless VIP includes blatant pay-to-win, like the live servers do. And if no one pays, NCWest does not make a profit and the game quickly closes. I honestly think that the current bonuses are enough for vip to be a reliable source of income. The increased rates and pve dmg give catchup mechanics to those with cash and limited time. The biggest drawback of the vip4 system is the 50 dollar buy in, when the launch packs disappear that is a massive investment and I think those who lose vip4 from not maintaining coin will think twice about reinvesting. Vip4 doesn't need those kinds of bonuses to remain relevant though. Even something like making death penalty-90% is highly enticing as we reach higher levels, we're here because we love the game and the pvp but for those not used to the grind then death in pvp will make them wary of fighting. Give them an option to protect their progress while enjoying the pvp and there's no impact on the economy or the grand scale of the server. That's an idea thought up in the span of 5 minutes that is a better solution and the only downside is trolls on the forum will say "carebear game" or some shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawman Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Removing fishing from non-VIP would free up more slots. Not clear how adding an auction house is game-breaking, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orocso Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 1 minute ago, Lawman said: Removing fishing from non-VIP would free up more slots. Not clear how adding an auction house is game-breaking, though. the auction houses are designed to be another money sink, you pay a % to have the item there. Since nobody is got any adena, it wouldn't be very effective to reduce the amount of online players, since people are starving for money to the point where they find viable to leave your pc on all day in hopes to sell a few 500a buff scrolls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawman Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Alexandrielle, I appreciate the thoughtful response. I know the existing bonuses would not be enough for me. Maybe if the base rates were raised to the original and the 50% bonus applied to adena, drops AND spoils it would be worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexandrielle Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 1 minute ago, Lawman said: Alexandrielle, I appreciate the thoughtful response. I know the existing bonuses would not be enough for me. Maybe if the base rates were raised to the original and the 50% bonus applied to adena, drops AND spoils it would be worth it. I agree that would be a fair amount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krissa Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Just now, Lawman said: Not clear how adding an auction house is game-breaking, though. An auction house removes all the space aspects and the majority of time aspects of the ingame economic "PvP". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stett Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 6 hours ago, Drakk said: no man *economy* here doesn't exist because players have no oportunity to start their business. Admins reduced adena ammount by 3/4 of what it should be and at the same time left normal prices at npc shops that are allready too high for the adena ammount drop. hope you get it 4 hours ago, FatHips said: you have absolutely no concept about economics whatsoever. Take that 9th grade econ knowledge out of here :-) I'll do you a favor and educate you a little: What you said would apply if the shop items, npc items, ncstore items were tied to a limited supply, however they are not. They are effectively price floors for all items related, and are set by the government (since we're using economics terms here). Due to this, it is logical to tweak the rate at which adena drops to match the price in the shop at an appropriate ratio. Most of the playerbase seems to think that that ratio is currently set at an unacceptable rate for them to continue to keep playing (keep in mind this is an opinion unique to each player). While the logic is similar to the minimum wage, you missed a significant influencing factor, that the shop items etc are not demand or supply driven. They are outside of the supply chain (unlimited) and therefore standard economic principles do not apply. Another player (and one with a true economics education) had suggested that the npc prices be lowered as compensation for the decreased adena rates. This would be helpful, but it would not address the issue of lack of materials and full drops that normally exist to balance the games economy as currently designed. So it's a partial fix to address the adena issue. There is also the issue of lack of capital. Yes there will be more adena over time, but the rate of which players exit the market will be severe until a "critical mass" is reached to where capital investment can realistically takeplace. The investment of capital is the main thing that keeps economies out of recession and depression. Right now, there is literally no capital to invest in the game. I would strongly encourage you not to try to sound like an expert when it is profoundly obvious you have very superficial knowledge on the subject you dove into. Making the game easier.. okay... "lack of capital" lol You sound like the government trying to get a loan. The appropriate % you are searching for was never promised to begin with.. if you watched the live stream they said it would be a hardcore grind experience... Shop are indeed not supply and demand. I enjoyed your bigoted statement however. Thus you have defeated your own statement with hypocrisy. You speak of balance. You speak of "Normal." I think it is as it is simply put making the game easier. The faster items can be gained = faster time game completion. It's simply that nothing more. It does not change the game at all. I didn't know you spoke as if you had designed the game yourself. On top of the ad hominem.... Most of the player base? Where are you statistics? Was there a poll amongst all of the players currently playing? You have your own opinion on the matter. Many of the things you consider good just make the game easier overall. None of them have broken the game in any matter. We could sit here and talk about the semantics of economy. However, Most of your points are negligent. It all comes down to game progression. Easier adena/item drop/ anything to make the games economy inflated with increased transactions causes fiat currency to hit their critical limit much faster. In the end, player items would be cheaper than shop items and players would pay more than NPC for mats. If the economy is saturated with items no one is buying... then supply and demand comes in... Call it what you want. Your logic is stained. Recession and depression in a game? Are jobs created or lost? Haha... interesting The only thing inevitable with increased drops and rates and money is saturation... there is limited thing you can spend your money on in this game.... at that point when you run out of things to do is when it is critical mass... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawman Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Orosco, you are right about that. We didn't need the money sink in live and we sure don't need one here. How about a commission free auction house, at least until the overcrowding problems are resolved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FatHips Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 its a far more sustainable solution to make the free to play unsustainable and the VIP status to be a normal classic server. Income will rise and be consistent. No need to add pay to win garbage later. You get to enjoy free accounts for alts, inviting friends to try the game, and for new players to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shepsky Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, FatHips said: its a far more sustainable solution to make the free to play unsustainable and the VIP status to be a normal classic server. Income will rise and be consistent. No need to add pay to win garbage later. You get to enjoy free accounts for alts, inviting friends to try the game, and for new players to come. I think we are on the same page... VIP4 = 100% EXP/Adena/Drops/Spoil VIP3 = 90% EXP, 75% Adena/Drops/Spoil VIP2 = 80% EXP, 55% Adena/Drops/Spoil VIP1 = 70% EXP, 40% Adena/Drops/Spoil Free = 60% EXP, 25% Adena/Drop/Spoil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orocso Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, Lawman said: Orosco, you are right about that. We didn't need the money sink in live and we sure don't need one here. How about a commission free auction house, at least until the overcrowding problems are resolved? not sure that would solve the overcrowding, not right off the bat at least. The auction house would be great for the good stuff, like full items and other expensive stuff (which are rare right now). Having an auction house for high volume stuff (materials, buff scrolls, etc) will just make it a mess. To get the UI/UX right to a point it isnt confusing as hell is gonna take a very long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FatHips Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 8 minutes ago, Stett said: Making the game easier.. okay... "lack of capital" lol You sound like the government trying to get a loan. The appropriate % you are searching for was never promised to begin with.. if you watched the live stream they said it would be a hardcore grind experience... Shop are indeed not supply and demand. I enjoyed your bigoted statement however. Thus you have defeated your own statement with hypocrisy. You speak of balance. You speak of "Normal." I think it is as it is simply put making the game easier. The faster items can be gained = faster time game completion. It's simply that nothing more. It does not change the game at all. I didn't know you spoke as if you had designed the game yourself. On top of the ad hominem.... Most of the player base? Where are you statistics? Was there a poll amongst all of the players currently playing? You have your own opinion on the matter. Many of the things you consider good just make the game easier overall. None of them have broken the game in any matter. We could sit here and talk about the semantics of economy. However, Most of your points are negligent. It all comes down to game progression. Easier adena/item drop/ anything to make the games economy inflated with increased transactions causes fiat currency to hit their critical limit much faster. In the end, player items would be cheaper than shop items and players would pay more than NPC for mats. If the economy is saturated with items no one is buying... then supply and demand comes in... Call it what you want. Your logic is stained. Recession and depression in a game? Are jobs created or lost? Haha... interesting The only thing inevitable with increased drops and rates and money is saturation... there is limited thing you can spend your money on in this game.... at that point when you run out of things to do is when it is critical mass... Boo hoo, mommy he said mean things. What you said was still completely and utterly wrong from both an economic point of view as you applied it to RL (hence my government comparison, you brought economics into it, dummy), and from a common sense point of view as it applies to the game. The poll was non-scientific, of course, lacking any better alternative, the results are statistically significant when compared to an estimation of the games actual population ~few thousand. Most polls require a much less significant sample. You're right about adena being fiat currency, but the critical mass will never be achieved because players will quit in droves, the economy will shrink, because unlike real life, when someone exits the economy their money is reinvested in it, in the game, more often than not adena disappears on inactive accounts and from other adena sinks. In the case where it somehow is achieved, how many people will be left at that time? How many new ones will be starting? This is where you have to stop using economics and apply some common sense. "Are jobs created or lost?" -- the irony here is yes, many believe it or not, but it's not relevant to the discussion You're operating from an infinite loop without an exit, by your logic, the rates should be dropped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexandrielle Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 1 minute ago, ChrisTooFar said: I think we are on the same page... VIP4 = 100% EXP/Adena/Drops/Spoil VIP3 = 90% EXP, 75% Adena/Drops/Spoil VIP2 = 80% EXP, 55% Adena/Drops/Spoil VIP1 = 70% EXP, 40% Adena/Drops/Spoil Free = 60% EXP, 25% Adena/Drop/Spoil If we are currently sitting at 25% adena and everyone is saying they want an answer / fix or they will leave the game, what makes you think this is a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakedown Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Just now, Alexandrielle said: If we are currently sitting at 25% adena and everyone is saying they want an answer / fix or they will leave the game, what makes you think this is a good idea. It's actually not a bad solution.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orocso Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 This fishing system is a big part of the problem, in my opinion this should'nt be in game at this point. They should have waited a month or two for the hype to be over and population starts decreasing. It isn't a cool system or anything, and the 500-900 people line on top of the bugs, creates a negative experience, specially for new comers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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