Accounts Closed for Illegal Third-Party Programs

[Zanfire]

False. You reported this to my email saying I was using a third party program. Razer Synapse has been just a natural download I've had with my computer! I didn't know it was considered a third party program. I dont think thats reasonable to ban someone for having Razer Synapse. I've sent numerous emails about this and not 1 response after saying my account would be closed. There are multiple players using bots or adena selling yet you find a way to ban someone with razer synapse instaled...THAT was your security system fault that you will refuse to fix. Just like you haven't fixed anything else.

Razer Synapse is not causing bans. I've had it for years and never got banned for it. Not here, not anywhere.

[Sharlanna]

7 minutes ago, Zynx said:

False. You reported this to my email saying I was using a third party program. Razer Synapse has been just a natural download I've had with my computer! I didn't know it was considered a third party program. I dont think thats reasonable to ban someone for having Razer Synapse. I've sent numerous emails about this and not 1 response after saying my account would be closed. There are multiple players using bots or adena selling yet you find a way to ban someone with razer synapse instaled...THAT was your security system fault that you will refuse to fix. Just like you haven't fixed anything else.

That sucks. I have a Razer mouse but decided not to install Synapse. Hope you get it resolved.

[Zynx]

1 minute ago, Zanfire said:

Razer Synapse is not causing bans. I've had it for years and never got banned for it. Not here, not anywhere.

Congrats you survived the ban wave

[Xentos]

@Hime

I had one of the 3 accounts I was playing banned for 3rd party software. All 3 accounts were being played on the same computer yet only one was banned. Something doesn't seem right with that had I been truly running some 3rd party software surely all 3 accounts would have been hit. Support has been little to no help taking a day to respond each time just to say account is closed permanently and it wasn't a mistake. At this point I'm worried to spend money on this game in fear I'll get banned without cause. Little help here?

[forcis]

@Hime Please, increase server cap population beyond 5800 or reduce the 3 acc per pc to 2-1, it will help with log in issue and the health of the server, i mean, more active ppl and less box's, is good for everyone, i hope u answer to me if u will do this or is not going to happen.

[Saintly]

2 hours ago, Hime said:

We have been and will be closing accounts found cheating. Please note, the use of a VPN or ping-reducing programs are not related to this.

What about Russians who use VPN to bypass the IP block?
Will you ban them or not?

Asking since it's kind of a grey area atm with VPN being allowed.

[Elithelion]

37 minutes ago, forcis said:

@Hime Please, increase server cap population beyond 5800 or reduce the 3 acc per pc to 2-1, it will help with log in issue and the health of the server, i mean, more active ppl and less box's, is good for everyone, i hope u answer to me if u will do this or is not going to happen.

You cannot control the number of accounts running on one machine unless you track the mac id numbers. I doubt seriously NCSoft is tracking accounts using anything but IP addresses. If they start limiting accounts per IP then you start loosing players at colleges, families in homes, players at internet cafes, and players just doing a simple lan party. You would have thought they would have expected the huge influx and had better prepared for it in ways other than the obviously useless queue system. TBH I would rather them fix the horrendous drop/spoil rates than waste time finding a handful of cheaters.

[MMOBlitz]

3 hours ago, GrumpyMuppet said:

I dont like to speak rude to you or juji because i think you are doing a good job with what you where given. But thats an utterly lie. Maybe they lied to you and you transmitted it to us, but all this mess is because of the ncSoft incompetence and their fraudulent conduct.

@Hime

Here, let me speak rude to you, get off your high horse bud! What do you know about what team does what? Instead of pulling some random crap out of your arse just for the sake of posting and getting attention, why don't you just go relax and take a breather? 

[MMOBlitz]

4 hours ago, BobGratton said:

I was talking about the queue making you disconnect at around 1-40, dude, grow some intellect please.

I mean, I was just going off of your nonsensical way of posting your disgruntled message about the queue. It really didn't make a lot of sense to be honest.

[MMOBlitz]

2 hours ago, marcysiek said:

Still waiting for adena/drop/spoil/exp rates fix

You were told they were coming, time to do something that will blow your mind.... be patient lol. I know that's hard for the modern gamer.

[airfathaaaaa]

we should not get kicked out because we are using MOBA mouses thats racist!

[Praxis]

2 hours ago, Zynx said:

False. You reported this to my email saying I was using a third party program. Razer Synapse has been just a natural download I've had with my computer! I didn't know it was considered a third party program. I dont think thats reasonable to ban someone for having Razer Synapse. I've sent numerous emails about this and not 1 response after saying my account would be closed. There are multiple players using bots or adena selling yet you find a way to ban someone with razer synapse instaled...THAT was your security system fault that you will refuse to fix. Just like you haven't fixed anything else.

Did they explicitly tell you that synapse was not allowed?

[Viperel]

1 hour ago, Elithelion said:

You cannot control the number of accounts running on one machine unless you track the mac id numbers. I doubt seriously NCSoft is tracking accounts using anything but IP addresses. If they start limiting accounts per IP then you start loosing players at colleges, families in homes, players at internet cafes, and players just doing a simple lan party. TBH I would rather them fix the horrendous drop/spoil rates than waste time finding a handful of cheaters.

IP tracking is irrelevant nowadays, most companies are using hardware IDs (MACs are too easy to spoof).

The issue with rates was mentioned as being looked at and maybe fixed this week. And if you think there are only a handful of cheaters, you are going to be surprised...

[airfathaaaaa]

4 minutes ago, Praxis said:

Did they explicitly tell you that synapse was not allowed?

they kept kicking me for having the lgs installed but i havent been banned...yet although i understand that if you are good in coding you can create a bot program with them but going as far as flagging everyone that uses them as bots is a bit harsh

[Praxis]

1 minute ago, airfathaaaaa said:

they kept kicking me for having the lgs installed but i havent been banned...yet although i understand that if you are good in coding you can create a bot program with them but going as far as flagging everyone that uses them as bots is a bit harsh

How do you know that it was caused by synapse? did they tell you that explicitly?

[airfathaaaaa]

Just now, Praxis said:

How do you know that it was caused by synapse? did they tell you that explicitly?

i literally said i have the lgs installed lgs=logitech gaming software and among other things it calibrates my g29 my x52 and my g600 and you have no idea how annoying it is to get it disabled and enabled again for each peripheral

[Praxis]

idc what you have installed. i care what they said. how do you know what is causing your account to be blocked?

[airfathaaaaa]

cause everytime i have it enabled the anti bot closes the client? i mean you dont need any scientific data to understand it

[Cubic]

2 hours ago, forcis said:

@Hime Please, increase server cap population beyond 5800 or reduce the 3 acc per pc to 2-1, it will help with log in issue and the health of the server, i mean, more active ppl and less box's, is good for everyone, i hope u answer to me if u will do this or is not going to happen.

This is already done.  Xigncode3 prevents running more than 1.

[Zynx]

28 minutes ago, Praxis said:

Did they explicitly tell you that synapse was not allowed?

No, they never defined what "third party program" I used. Their automated system detected something and they just went with it. No logs no proof nothing. They just ban cause they feel like it. Then they wonder why their games die so quickly.

[airfathaaaaa]

1 minute ago, Saintly said:

If they are not then they will not try to by-pass the lock and play on their own servers. :3

really now? you never played a private server before? what happens when you reach a certain point and feel like you have reached all of your goals? to stay on the server pretending to be awesome while you are bored to death?

the russian bot masters are all well known just like true(those that played in c2 and after knows what im talkinga bout...) and he had a whole freaking basement with 34 pc's running only l2 instances 

[L2player2018]

@Hime 

I think this has been asked several times without clarification from the community team: What exactly constitutes an illegal third party program?  The TOS states:

(i) software that reads areas of computer memory or storage devices related to the Game;

(ii) software that intercepts or otherwise collects data from or through the Game;

(iii) software that redirects communications from any Game or Service; or

(iv) software not provided by NCSOFT which creates or maintains any communication to the Game or Service, including but not limited to any software that emulates the Game or any part thereof as well as any server that emulates the Service or any part thereof;

Obviously bots, things that modify memory addresses, VPNs to bypass country blocks (though you said VPNs weren't causing bans), and other "cheats." 

I ASSUME from reading the TOS things that just READ (but don't modify) memory, such as DPS trackers, mob info, etc. (i.e., plugins/addons); as well as things that do the same via decrypting/reading traffic are banned (items 'i', 'ii', and 'iii' above).  Item (iv) seems vague, but appears to be targeted at third party or "private" servers.  Interestingly it seems that screen/pixel readers are in kind of a grey area, as they don't collect data or interact with the game directly.  I assume that's an oversight, or is considered covered under the other vague headings.

What is less clear is the stance on things like programmable hardware peripherals (Nostromo, Logitech keyboards, gaming mice, etc.) that allow you to create keypress macros, or software that allows you to do the same.

Then comes the question of use. Are cases reviewed by a human to determine legitimacy?  In other words, say hardware macro devices ARE allowed (or at least not explicitly disallowed), is someone making judgement calls on what use constitutes an unfair advantage?  Would say, someone completely automating keypresses/macros to AFK farm (basically a simple bot), be handled differently from someone who is using macros to switch between and manage multiple game windows?  Or, more likely, is it just a blanket ban regardless of use.  If the former, is just having such software (such that commonly comes with programmable mice/gaming keyboards, etc.) installed or running enough to flag an account for banning (assuming the software does not interact with the game in any way).

NCSoft already installs alleged malware/spyware (in the form of XIGNCODE) on customer PCs, which we begrudgingly agree to in order to play the game as intended and offered by the legitimate developer.  That being said most gamers play more than one game, and the rules are different everywhere.  I think the playerbase has a right to know where the lines are so they aren't crossed, intentionally or not, causing wasted time and lost investments.

If anything in this post is out of line I ask that it just be deleted by the mod team.  I'm just asking for clarification, and I hope I've avoided crossing any lines or providing any usable/instructed information.  I have my own opinions on what constitutes fair play, as does everyone else; it's a very subjective topic, even with some of it being common sense.  Having the people in charge make an authoritative statement will help keep people from making mistakes, getting upset over breaking rules they didn't know existed, and frankly help keep the money rolling in.

 

TL;DR ban bots and hackers, give legitimate players with fancy keyboards and too much time on their hands enough information to stay on the right side of the law, even if it's just a blanket ban on anything other than clicking your mouse pointer and hitting F1 in a single window (ALT+TAB be damned!).  Then it's up to the GM team to enforce that policy as best they can, equally, in all cases, for better or worse.

[Saintly]

12 minutes ago, airfathaaaaa said:

really now? you never played a private server before? what happens when you reach a certain point and feel like you have reached all of your goals? to stay on the server pretending to be awesome while you are bored to death?

the russian bot masters are all well known just like true(those that played in c2 and after knows what im talkinga bout...) and he had a whole freaking basement with 34 pc's running only l2 instances 

Oh no-one said that they should stay there, there are plenty of servers that Russia ain't banned they can join.

All i asked was if they gonna enforce the rules and ban them if they use VPN to by-pass the ban and join NA servers.

[Viperel]

Here is a more in-depth technical analysis of what xingcode3 detects and why its used in most large online games.

https://www.wellbia.com/home/en/pages/xigncode3/

 

[airfathaaaaa]

1 minute ago, Saintly said:

Oh no-one said that they should stay there, there are plenty of servers that Russia ain't banned they can join.

All i asked was if they gonna enforce the rules and ban them if they use VPN to by-pass the ban and join NA servers.

and how they gonna enforce this? protonvpn isnt transparent nor is nordvpn and unless they somehow convince them to ban russian ip's to their servers its practicly impossible 

but the real problem is that they dont want to.. there are so many bot sellers spamming and yet placing those sites into a filter is an easy job but no one does it and this is all the evidence you need to understand ncsoft..