Offline Shop Why Not?

[beleaua]

3 minutes ago, Ikcen said:

Offline shops will solve a huge part of the problem. There are additional things, like you cannot open a shop before a certain level, you cannot have more than 1 account opened per PC. Everyday restarts. And etc.

get lost. more pirate servers propaganda and something that will never ever be implemented here. better get used to it

1 hour ago, Nothof said:

The best think they could do is add teleport cost after level 20. People who uses shops will understand what I mean.

reason why most shops are on monster race track on eu ?

[Nothof]

@Ikcen  Don't know about the offline tweeks, I never hosted a illegal server. But makes sense that still uses player/slot, because when you "log again" you have to receive the adena/items from the shop. That means somehow you're always connected to the gameserver. Seems logic to me, don't know nothing about the game code

[Ikcen]

9 minutes ago, Nothof said:

@Ikcen  Don't know about the offline tweeks, I never hosted a illegal server. But makes sense that still uses player/slot, because when you "log again" you have to receive the adena/items from the shop. That means somehow you're always connected to the gameserver. Seems logic to me, don't know nothing about the game code

Yes it will take a "player slot" - in fact connection channel, after you log in and stop the shop. I will try to explain again. Your shop is NPC. You cannot control it. It exists on the server. That is made to prevent abuses and cheating, as you can manipulate the files on your PC. So when the shop is offline, literally nothing changes. It still will exist on the server as NPC. The difference is, your account will not be connected, so there will be a free connection channel for another player.

Most of the data about your character and account is not placed in your PC, but in the server data base. The adena, items, stats - everything is there. You have limited control from your PC. For example you cannot add 1KK adena, no matter how you manipulate the code on your PC.

[beleaua]

it is a player slot not npc because it has to be in the memory of the server the whole time you're offline, and it retains all the gear, appearances and every stat you have. you don't grasp basic concept, why do you even try to explain?

[Nothof]

@Ikcen Thanks for the info. Offilne shop is only good if a player slot becomes open for others, and save energy at home.

[Ikcen]

1 minute ago, beleaua said:

it is a player slot not npc because it has to be in the memory of the server the whole time you're offline, and it retains all the gear, appearances and every stat you have. you don't grasp basic concept, why do you even try to explain?

The problem with queue is not related to the memory. And every character is an NPC in fact. In some games you can control the mobs, but it does not change anything about them.

Again - most of the data about your character and account is not placed in your PC, but in the server data base. The adena, items, stats - everything is there. You have limited control from your PC. For example you cannot add 1KK adena, no matter how you manipulate the code on your PC.

[beleaua]

@Ikcen nowadays almost everything stays in the memory of the servers because hdd/ssd are slow and the amount of data to be processed in a second is huge, no need to write those down and read again, as it will slow down even further. even databases are not often accesses to write down but maintained the data in a buffer until they need to write down, and a buffer like this can stay up for days or until next maintenance. when you access your character, part of the memory is allocated for that character stats, inventory, location, appearance, anything there is about it.

when you go offline, part of the info is updated to the buffer or written directly to a db, and the memory is freed. when you use offline shop your character still appear to be in the game for other players, so the memory is still occupied. only the connection is freed. but connections are not so important, they pay for bandwidth but there is enough bandwidth to sustain many more thousands of players. on the other hand the server ncsoft is renting is limited in hardware, and their software is designed to handle x amount of data, or lets say players. with the software they have it's not possible. even if they try to upgrade this ancient server there is no benefit for them, they will lose money in korea. the only single benefit of offline shop is the players who doesn't have to waste power to keep his pc open.

[FatHips]

38 minutes ago, beleaua said:

get lost. more pirate servers propaganda and something that will never ever be implemented here. better get used to it

reason why most shops are on monster race track on eu ?

They will be here too once people are 40+ and teleports cost money. 

MDT is free and accessible from every town.

[Ikcen]

4 minutes ago, beleaua said:

@Ikcen nowadays almost everything stays in the memory of the servers because hdd/ssd are slow and the amount of data to be processed in a second is huge, no need to write those down and read again, as it will slow down even further. even databases are not often accesses to write down but maintained the data in a buffer until they need to write down, and a buffer like this can stay up for days or until next maintenance. when you access your character, part of the memory is allocated for that character stats, inventory, location, appearance, anything there is about it.

when you go offline, part of the info is updated to the buffer or written directly to a db, and the memory is freed. when you use offline shop your character still appear to be in the game for other players, so the memory is still occupied. only the connection is freed. but connections are not so important, they pay for bandwidth but there is enough bandwidth to sustain many more thousands of players. on the other hand the server ncsoft is renting is limited in hardware, and their software is designed to handle x amount of data, or lets say players. with the software they have it's not possible. even if they try to upgrade this ancient server there is no benefit for them, they will lose money in korea. the only single benefit of offline shop is the players who doesn't have to waste power to keep his pc open.

Indeed, and no. As I say every character is NPC. It exists in the server without you. And there is not any problem. The problems begin when you are connected. Because to control the character you need to receive data from the server, and the server to receive back data from you. That data meanwhile should be checked and verified. It is much slower process. When they say 6000 players limit - this is the limit for the number of the connections. It is typical for the modern servers - 6 - 8 thousands of players in any time. That is why the illegal servers made that change. They need players to vote for them, so they need as much active people as possible. So they usually put 8000 or even 10 000 limit and do everything to reduce the number of AFK players. The benefit from the offline shops is the reduced queue. 

[Krissa]

16 minutes ago, Ikcen said:

Indeed, and no. As I say every character is NPC. It exists in the server without you. And there is not any problem. The problems begin when you are connected. Because to control the character you need to receive data from the server, and the server to receive back data from you. That data meanwhile should be checked and verified. It is much slower process.

How do you know that? Have you actually measured it?

[Ikcen]

1 hour ago, Krissa said:

How do you know that? Have you actually measured it?

You say ssd is slow, but it is thousands times faster than the internet connection. The minimum speed of SSD is 1600 Mbp/s. Usually it is about 3000 Mbp/s. At the same time the game uses about 0,1 Mbp/s from your internet bandwidth. That is why you have lags when there are many players around you.

But is does not need more, as the game world - all the graphics - 3D models and  2D textures and the vectors of the movement are in the game file in your HD. What is on the server is your characters stats, gold, location, and etc.

[Krissa]

14 minutes ago, Ikcen said:

You say ssd is slow,

I say? Where do I say that?

You seem to be totally confused about what's going on. So confused that I'm not even sure that you are able to discuss the topic at all.

[beleaua]

1 hour ago, Ikcen said:

Indeed, and no. As I say every character is NPC. It exists in the server without you. And there is not any problem. The problems begin when you are connected. Because to control the character you need to receive data from the server, and the server to receive back data from you. That data meanwhile should be checked and verified. It is much slower process. When they say 6000 players limit - this is the limit for the number of the connections. It is typical for the modern servers - 6 - 8 thousands of players in any time. That is why the illegal servers made that change. They need players to vote for them, so they need as much active people as possible. So they usually put 8000 or even 10 000 limit and do everything to reduce the number of AFK players. The benefit from the offline shops is the reduced queue. 

 

4 minutes ago, Ikcen said:

You say ssd is slow, but it is thousands times faster than the internet connection. The minimum speed of SSD is 1600 Mbp/s. Usually it is about 3000 Mbp/s. At the same time the game uses about 0,1 Mbp/s from your internet bandwidth. That is why you have lags when there are many players around you.

But is does not need more, as the game world - all the graphics and the vectors of the movement are in the game file in your HD. What is on the server is your characters stats, gold, location, and etc.

that is not really how that works.

the data transmitted and received through those 6000 connections is meaningless compared with the amount of memory and processing  power you need to process/calculate/store all that data received.

if you actually measure the bandwidth needed for one connection it is not much at all, even multiplied to 6000. these server farms can handle way way more bandwidth today. they are designed to sustain thousands  of connection and high amount of downloads, if you pay for the bandwidth. of course it matters if there are quite many connection but not for the bandwidth but for server processing and waiting everyone. the problem is inside the server, with the processing power needed so you don't feel a delay, and the finite amount of memory allocated, and of course ultimately the software you run. new servers, even from ncsoft, can do hardware offload balance between multiple physical servers you can allocate but not in such ancient game. even with such high speed writing and reading, it is still preferred nowadays to just keep the data in memory as much as you can (even days). you don't lag because of the lack of bandwidth when many players are around. first of all it could just be your pc not handling that many polygons and effects. second, it could be the server which has to process too many players inputs. bandwidth is negligible. 

[Devoid]

4 hours ago, Ikcen said:

Yes it will take a "player slot" - in fact connection channel, after you log in and stop the shop. I will try to explain again. Your shop is NPC. You cannot control it. It exists on the server. That is made to prevent abuses and cheating, as you can manipulate the files on your PC. So when the shop is offline, literally nothing changes. It still will exist on the server as NPC. The difference is, your account will not be connected, so there will be a free connection channel for another player.

Most of the data about your character and account is not placed in your PC, but in the server data base. The adena, items, stats - everything is there. You have limited control from your PC. For example you cannot add 1KK adena, no matter how you manipulate the code on your PC.

You are so fixated on saving bandwidth that you cannot see that bandwidth isn't even a problem AT ALL.

Now, to address your shop remarks.

1. Open recipe book (common/dwarven)
2. Set up private buy/sell/package store
3. Craft while you have MP, do something else, craft again
4. If you have been crafting shots, resetup the store with more items added

And, of course, there is the 'private manufacture'. As NPCs regenerate differently than players, now that's something directly incompatible with your proposition.

 

[Ikcen]

5 hours ago, Devoid said:

You are so fixated on saving bandwidth that you cannot see that bandwidth isn't even a problem AT ALL.

Now, to address your shop remarks.

1. Open recipe book (common/dwarven)
2. Set up private buy/sell/package store
3. Craft while you have MP, do something else, craft again
4. If you have been crafting shots, resetup the store with more items added

And, of course, there is the 'private manufacture'. As NPCs regenerate differently than players, now that's something directly incompatible with your proposition.

 

NPC is your character, when you do not control it. So it regenerates exactly with the same rate. Most people just stay AFK. Many shops are not open with dwarfs. So your points are pointless. Also it is much more comfortable for the players. You may just log off, and your shop will stay. It is a win win proposition. Why are you so fixed to argue?

[Ikcen]

 

7 hours ago, beleaua said:

 

that is not really how that works.

these server farms can handle way way more bandwidth today.

Server farms! Really? Just stop while you still sound smart. The problem is not inside the server. It can hold probably millions of NPCs, but the logging of millions of players is simply impossible. The game is not ancient, only the graphics are old, because of the old engine. As for the lag, I'm lazy to explain again, you are simply wrong, period. My PC is high end, if it can handle TW3 and BDO on ultra, L2 is much, much lower. Now I suggest you to configure your own server, then to teach me how it works  

[beleaua]

14 minutes ago, Ikcen said:

 

Server farms! Really? Just stop while you still sound smart.

seems like you never worked in the industry. stop while you don't make a bigger fool of yourself

The problem is not inside the server. It can hold probably millions of NPCs, but the logging of millions of players is simply impossible. The game is not ancient, only the graphics are old, because of the old engine.

The game is ancient. NC moved to newer and better projects since then and only a small team is taking care of L2 project.

As for the lag, I'm lazy to explain again, you are simply wrong, period.

Basically you're clueless but you want to sound like you know.

My PC is high end, if it can handle TW3 and BDO on ultra, L2 is much, much lower.

Because you have no idea what's the difference between those.

Now I suggest you to configure your own server, then to teach me how it works  

No. Teach yourself.

.

[Devoid]

3 hours ago, Ikcen said:

NPC is your character, when you do not control it. So it regenerates exactly with the same rate. Most people just stay AFK. Many shops are not open with dwarfs. So your points are pointless. Also it is much more comfortable for the players. You may just log off, and your shop will stay. It is a win win proposition. Why are you so fixed to argue?

Okay, time for me to tune out. There are just so many completely false statements in these few sentences.