Karma - PK System!!

[Conan_chl]

English: (with google translator)

If you want to run a "Classic" server you need to change the current karma system ...

In L2 sometimes you need to PK other players who do KS or do not respect your space, your PJ or your clan, where many times these players do not fight back and that is when you end up killing them without them fighting for their affront .

When that happens, it can not be that the current system forces you to drop in a pathetic way between 1 to 10 points of karma per mob that you liquidate, because with 700, 1080 or more points to lower it becomes a titanic task !!

It is well that Karma is won by killing another PJ who does not respond to a fight, because it could be used for abuses, but this should not be invalidating for your PJ in a classic, because this is synonymous with PvP! In ancient chronicles, from C1 to C4, the karma quickly dropped killing, 20, 50 or 100 bugs of your level, depending on the number of PKs you had and how much karma you got, something complicated to do with the name in red, but not An impossible task, especially if you had your friends by your side.

Another thing that must change, is that those who hit the PKs do not make a flag, they MUST do it !! This is a PvP game, it is classic and in any player that wishes to participate in a battle, it must remain a flag !! But what does the PK for example to defend ?? Continue killing all white that comes on top to try to survive and thus add infinite karma? No, that is absurd and whoever defends it is because he is simply a coward and likes to be an opportunist!

If you are going to fight, purple you stay, period!

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[Ikcen]

In addition the cleaning of every PK point - so you do not have 4 and drop items, costs 330 000 adena. If they want PK to be forbidden, better to make the PvP instanced, on some battleground and we all to go play BDO, GW2, WoW and etc. The game definitely needs adequate PK penalties.

[LoanWolf]

Karma is not a big issue for me.  I think if I get into fights and have to fight even if I got 5k Karma, I am able to burn that all down in a night.  Ive played games where that is worse.  Im at PK 3 atm and the thought of spending 990k to reduce that down seems pretty bs.  I think a fair compromise would be doing the sineater quest reduces all PK points.  As you still have the risk of item loss above PK 4.

[Mistrix]

1 hour ago, LoanWolf said:

Karma is not a big issue for me.  I think if I get into fights and have to fight even if I got 5k Karma, I am able to burn that all down in a night.  Ive played games where that is worse.  Im at PK 3 atm and the thought of spending 990k to reduce that down seems pretty bs.  I think a fair compromise would be doing the sineater quest reduces all PK points.  As you still have the risk of item loss above PK 4.

At night ? ??? server is full 24/7 ))))

[LoanWolf]

10 minutes ago, Mistrix said:

At night ? ??? server is full 24/7 ))))

As in you can grind back 5k karma loss in a few hours if needed.  And there are plenty of grind spots people will leave you alone that are pretty open.  

[JDawg]

3 hours ago, Conan_chl said:

English: (with google translator)

Another thing that must change, is that those who hit the PKs do not make a flag, they MUST do it !! This is a PvP game, it is classic and in any player that wishes to participate in a battle, it must remain a flag !! But what does the PK for example to defend ?? Continue killing all white that comes on top to try to survive and thus add infinite karma? No, that is absurd and whoever defends it is because he is simply a coward and likes to be an opportunist!

If you are going to fight, purple you stay, period!

============================================================================================================================================

 

Correct me if i'm wrong but...you never went purple for attacking a chaotic player in the past.  That's like the main reason not to go Chao because you are free game at that point to be killed without penalty to the other player.  You can defend yourself, that is your choice but your chaotic level increases if you win.  That is always how lineage has been.

If the chaotic level is too high right now per pk then yeah let's adjust it back to how it was in classic - I haven't gone around killing people yet to know for sure.  Otherwise with the XP modifiers it would seem that you would work off chaotic pts faster in this enhanced classic with pay shop then you did in the original?  I could be wrong on this 1.  

[kaincallavis]

I feel even chaotic people should have the right to defend themselves. As it is, them being red is already a huge penalty. In pvp someone else gets 1 free hit, that is massive in pvp... A powershot/double is a nasty way to have pvp started against you... 

Players should "personal flag" against reds... so they are purple for the red players... or another color, light purple or something... This way reds can defend themselves without falling into the infinite karma loophole. That is dumb. 

Even ultima online let reds defend themselves. For attacking a red (chaotic) player in UO the attacker went grey, but only for the red player. 

[JDawg]

2 hours ago, kaincallavis said:

I feel even chaotic people should have the right to defend themselves. As it is, them being red is already a huge penalty. In pvp someone else gets 1 free hit, that is massive in pvp... A powershot/double is a nasty way to have pvp started against you... 

Players should "personal flag" against reds... so they are purple for the red players... or another color, light purple or something... This way reds can defend themselves without falling into the infinite karma loophole. That is dumb. 

Even ultima online let reds defend themselves. For attacking a red (chaotic) player in UO the attacker went grey, but only for the red player. 

so two things.

1.  This is a classic server, and that is not a classic mechanic.

2.  You're basically saying that if Chaotic - you can go around killing all players if they attack back (defend themselves) without accruing more chaos pts?  1.  That is how it is already if you are not chaotic - if you hit and they hit back you both fight no penalty.  Only go chaotic in the first place for killing people that don't fight back, yet when chaotic...when you've got a big red name flagged over ya, you want to keep attacking others with no penalty if they fight back?  lol.  The current system is why I like lin2 pvp so much, because usually when you get pk'd there is a reason for it, people don't just PK you @ random as often because of the system the way it is.  Do clan wars or Sieges when they come out if you want that kind of pvp without penalty.  I like meaningful pvp not aimless random pvp.

[Ikcen]

8 hours ago, Conan_chl said:

English: (with google translator)

Another thing that must change, is that those who hit the PKs do not make a flag, they MUST do it !! This is a PvP game, it is classic and in any player that wishes to participate in a battle, it must remain a flag !! But what does the PK for example to defend ?? Continue killing all white that comes on top to try to survive and thus add infinite karma? No, that is absurd and whoever defends it is because he is simply a coward and likes to be an opportunist!

If you are going to fight, purple you stay, period!

See, this is never been in L2. The idea of the karma is exactly that other players do not flag. So this is an additional penalty. But at the way they made it here - very low rate for cleaning karma and very expensive quest for cleaning PK points, the system is completely screwed. Like it was in GoD. If I wanted to play on the Live server, I would, but it is not L2., no matter how they call it.

Simply the karma and the PK cleaning should be fixed.

[Eternius]

Listen here, this isn't some care-bear MMO. When you KILL another player who isn't willing to fight back or is white, you go red, period. You know the consequences of attacking a player and going red. So, its a conscious decision when you KILL another player. Stop whining about the pk system and own up to it. I don't want this to be some MMO where Player killing has no penalty.

Maybe the penalty is too steep in your opinion, however, I do not agree.

This is an MMO about choices. Stop complaining because you made a choice and don't want to deal with the consequences.

[Ikcen]

1 hour ago, Eternius said:

Listen here, this isn't some care-bear MMO. When you KILL another player who isn't willing to fight back or is white, you go red, period. You know the consequences of attacking a player and going red. So, its a conscious decision when you KILL another player. Stop whining about the pk system and own up to it. I don't want this to be some MMO where Player killing has no penalty.

Maybe the penalty is too steep in your opinion, however, I do not agree.

This is an MMO about choices. Stop complaining because you made a choice and don't want to deal with the consequences.

Indeed, you go red. But if the penalty is too high, like it is now, you will not PK. Nobody PK. So the griefers and the trolls grief and troll. If I KS your mobs, talk about your mother, and interrupt your gameplay, what will you do now? Nothing. Because you do not have a choice. You cannot afford neither the time to clean karma, nor the tax of 330 000 adena to clean PK point. You are right - this is a game about choices and consequences, but now you do not have a choice.

[ogre]

 

That is why occasionally Reds just gave up and rerolled. Or became permared.  These were issues and as I recall the karma/pk pvp system changed a couple times. 

[dorukasama]

Karma is so muuuuuch fun

[Krissa]

5 hours ago, Ikcen said:

Indeed, you go red. But if the penalty is too high, like it is now, you will not PK. Nobody PK.

Don't be so lowlevel, and the penalty won't be so high.

Also, if I remember correctly, 330k adena is one-time investment to get a PK-cleaning agathion. The recurring investment in PK points cleaning is grinding time.

[Jynxz]

at 4 pks i had around 6.5k karma so....

[Ikcen]

2 hours ago, Krissa said:

Don't be so lowlevel, and the penalty won't be so high.

Also, if I remember correctly, 330k adena is one-time investment to get a PK-cleaning agathion. The recurring investment in PK points cleaning is grinding time.

Now please make few PKs and test it. If it is so easy karma and PKs to be cleaned, why you do not?

And, you do not remember correctly.

[Karnz]

You would think you could work off one PK in 20 to a half an hour, I guess that ain't the case though.

My question is can you fish off karma in Giran Harbor unmolested?, it doesn't appear to be a Peace Zone and has no guards, so I assume you would still get killed.

So does that mean a red could PK fisherman while they are afk?...lol

[FatHips]

wtf is this post

[Krissa]

25 minutes ago, Karnz said:

My question is can you fish off karma in Giran Harbor unmolested?, it doesn't appear to be a Peace Zone and has no guards, so I assume you would still get killed.

Most of Giran Harbor is a peace zone.

[Niro]

Plebs, they dont fight back because they are low level, who care about exp at level 20-30?

 

When they get to higher levels and dont want to loose exp they will fight back, end of the story, aoe farming clean the karma super fast anyway and the 330k adenas is ok too, there need to be some punishment after all and in 1 year the 330k is going to be nothing, like free pk.

 

The system is fine, some of you sound like never played l2 before.

[Ikcen]

1 minute ago, yum said:

you should drop item on death from monster as white character name

you should drop item on death as pker with 0 pk count, not 5+

now game is carebears

and you increased xp/rates and make lifetime of game shorter, and it is easier to progress, nubs always stay nubs.

I think you want to stun tanks

[Karnz]

2 hours ago, Krissa said:

Most of Giran Harbor is a peace zone.

I just noticed that the text shows up in the mini map briefly, I was looking for it earlier and didn't see it.

[sigfred]

Now i have 20k karma, is insane to try to low that amount of karma, its like 5500 mobs... 

[Ikcen]

7 hours ago, Nigro said:

Plebs, they dont fight back because they are low level, who care about exp at level 20-30?

 

When they get to higher levels and dont want to loose exp they will fight back, end of the story, aoe farming clean the karma super fast anyway and the 330k adenas is ok too, there need to be some punishment after all and in 1 year the 330k is going to be nothing, like free pk.

 

The system is fine, some of you sound like never played l2 before.

And when they become high 330 000 will be nothing for killing newbies. But the karma is insane. So there will be perma red gangsters. The system is absolutely broken. It is like combination of worst from GoD and the real Lineage 2. Even the system with the scrolls in the original Classic was better. And I play L2 from Interlude.

[Vivisector]

I agree this needs to be fixed.  At the very least have a player that attacks a red go purple themselves.  Becuase the way it is now, like I had the other night.  Someone can come to where you are hunting in a AOE party, pull out their pole and start swinging away.  Spoiling all the mobs, and stealing XP and last hits on mobs.  And there really is nothing you can do about it.  You can drop them, like I did, but then you have hundreds of mobs to kill before you work off the karma.  They park another toon with rez, and pop right back up, and can start attacking you as much as they want.  They won't flag while you are trying to kill the needed 300-500 mobs.  If you attack them back, and kill them again, your PK count goes up and the amount of mobs you need to kill climbs to the thousands.  All it wends up doing is allows people to grief as much as they want, and turns the game into super carebear mode because it isn't worth PK'ing anyone that is griefing you.