How the player's shops work, and why offline

[Ikcen]

There is not such a thing as player's slot. There are connection channels, that are limited. If your character stays in the game as NPC, so controlled by the AI, as it stays in every shop in fact - check the exchange and the shop to see the difference, it does not need a connection channel. You may be AFK now, as the shop you placed works without you. You actually do nothing. It is NPC already. Also it dies if something - like aggressive mobs attack it. And you cannot make a shop when you are flagged or in combat. That is how it works NOW. All we suggest is to be possible the shop to be offline. So instead you stay AFK, your account to be disconnected so another player can use it. It is very small and easy change actually.

[Ikcen]

13 minutes ago, Ikcen said:

There is not such a thing as player's slot. There are connection channels, that are limited. If your character stays in the game as NPC, so controlled by the AI, as it stays in every shop in fact - check the exchange and the shop to see the difference, it does not need a connection channel. You may be AFK now, as the shop you placed works without you. You actually do nothing. It is NPC already. Also it dies if something - like aggressive mobs attack it. And you cannot make a shop when you are flagged or in combat. That is how it works NOW. All we suggest is to be possible the shop to be offline. So instead you stay AFK, your account to be disconnected so another player can use it. It is very small and easy change actually.

Sorry - so instead you stay AFK, your account to be disconnected so another player can use the channel.

[Devoid]

36 minutes ago, Devoid said:

I already told you, and you keep confirming, that this would save some upload bandwidth, but that's not the issue that causes ss lag that always follows the large player numbers.

Since NPC stats are calculated differently by design (you can try using the same formulas that work for player stats on your summon - they will not work, at all), making sure that the offline shop would only die if the player would die, means that it must be a player's object (sorry for the misleading comment above), with all the heavy resource and persistence usage that it comes with.

Once again, your proposed solution does not address the primary issue associated with excessive amounts of players, even if it was as easy to implement as you imagine (hint: it is not, this is not a custom emulator).

 

[Krissa]

7 hours ago, Ikcen said:

There is not such a thing as player's slot. There are connection channels, that are limited. If your character stays in the game as NPC, so controlled by the AI, as it stays in every shop in fact - check the exchange and the shop to see the difference, it does not need a connection channel. You may be AFK now, as the shop you placed works without you. You actually do nothing. It is NPC already. Also it dies if something - like aggressive mobs attack it. And you cannot make a shop when you are flagged or in combat. That is how it works NOW. All we suggest is to be possible the shop to be offline. So instead you stay AFK, your account to be disconnected so another player can use it. It is very small and easy change actually.

So, I could make 100 extra accounts, keep 100 offline shops on the server, and play with my main accounts at the same time?

Great idea, indeed.

[Brodex]

1 hour ago, Devoid said:

I already told you, and you keep confirming, that this would save some upload bandwidth, but that's not the issue that causes ss lag that always follows the large player numbers.

Since NPC stats are calculated differently by design (you can try using the same formulas that work for player stats on your summon - they will not work, at all), making sure that the offline shop would only die if the player would die, means that it must be a player's object (sorry for the misleading comment above), with all the heavy resource and persistence usage that it comes with.

Once again, your proposed solution does not address the primary issue associated with excessive amounts of players, even if it was as easy to implement as you imagine (hint: it is not, this is not a custom emulator).

 

It's funny, cause that's exactly how it works on illegal servers - your character becomes npc while you log-off. Bunch of illegal server guys can do this but huge company can't?  Stop defending the company that only thinks about milking money.

[Krissa]

4 minutes ago, Brodex said:

It's funny, cause that's exactly how it works on illegal servers - your character becomes npc while you log-off. Bunch of illegal server guys can do this but huge company can't?  Stop defending the company that only thinks about milking money.

That's what all companies do, legal or illegal. They act in a way that brings them money.

Illegal servers need to pretend that they have more players than they actually have, because it brings "don.ations". NCsoft doesn't have such a problem on the current Classic servers.

[Brodex]

Some servers do pretend, yeah, but there were servers with huge onlines. I was playing on one of the hugest private russian servers that had more than 6000 players online while having l2 off interlude files about ten years ago. It never had any queues or lag problems. Every town was full of players and shops so im pretty sure the online they were showing on their website wasnt an exaggeration. Actually, even the online number on old retail servers was around 6k too without stupid queues - ncsoft just wants to milk more money from players with the queues - limiting the slots. Hell, even stupid League of Legends when it was hugest had 2k or 3k queues, but you had to wait 10 minutes to login, not 9 hours.

[Krissa]

Unless you were an admin of that illegal server, you don't know if those numbers are true. The current population on NCWest Classic servers is huge: check Giran Harbor.

[nbx]

22 minutes ago, Brodex said:

Some servers do pretend, yeah, but there were servers with huge onlines. I was playing on one of the hugest private russian servers that had more than 6000 players online while having l2 off interlude files about ten years ago. It never had any queues or lag problems. Every town was full of players and shops so im pretty sure the online they were showing on their website wasnt an exaggeration. Actually, even the online number on old retail servers was around 6k too without stupid queues - ncsoft just wants to milk more money from players with the queues - limiting the slots. Hell, even stupid League of Legends when it was hugest had 2k or 3k queues, but you had to wait 10 minutes to login, not 9 hours.

The fact that you compared an MMO server to a MOBA server screams you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

[Devoid]

1 hour ago, Brodex said:

It's funny, cause that's exactly how it works on illegal servers - your character becomes npc while you log-off. Bunch of illegal server guys can do this but huge company can't?  Stop defending the company that only thinks about milking money.

Lineage II is based on technology from even earlier than the last decade. That's why LIVE has so many problems with new features - maintaning an unbelievably old code base is a nightmare compared to an emulator that doesn't really try to emulate, but instead provides custom features (a custom MMO that uses the Lineage II client); not to mention that it only has a fraction of features found in the official server.

TL;DR Maintaining a small, modern code base is always easy. Maintaining a gigantic legacy code base patched over time, with most of people involved being long gone is a different thing entirely.

Everything is wrong with your reply and all of it has already been addressed in the older thread.

[Ikcen]

1 hour ago, Devoid said:

Lineage II is based on technology from even earlier than the last decade. That's why LIVE has so many problems with new features - maintaning an unbelievably old code base is a nightmare compared to an emulator that doesn't really try to emulate, but instead provides custom features (a custom MMO that uses the Lineage II client); not to mention that it only has a fraction of features found in the official server.

TL;DR Maintaining a small, modern code base is always easy. Maintaining a gigantic legacy code base patched over time, with most of people involved being long gone is a different thing entirely.

Everything is wrong with your reply and all of it has already been addressed in the older thread.

Now learn what word emulator means.

2 hours ago, Krissa said:

So, I could make 100 extra accounts, keep 100 offline shops on the server, and play with my main accounts at the same time?

Great idea, indeed.

Now, what stops you to make 100 extra accounts and to open 100 online shops? Except the queue.

2 hours ago, Brodex said:

It's funny, cause that's exactly how it works on illegal servers - your character becomes npc while you log-off. Bunch of illegal server guys can do this but huge company can't?  Stop defending the company that only thinks about milking money.

No, that is how it works here. You do not control your shop. After it is open every action by you stops the shop. It is NPC, controlled by the AI. So why it should be online?

[Krissa]

28 minutes ago, Ikcen said:

Now, what stops you to make 100 extra accounts and to open 100 online shops? Except the queue.

I would need 33 more computers for that.

[Ikcen]

2 hours ago, Krissa said:

I would need 33 more computers for that.

So, good point. That is why the number of boxes per PC is limited on the illegal servers. The measures are not only offline shops and fishing. It is a package, that illegal servers use from years to deal with the queue problem. In fact the most important is the scheduled every day restart.

4 hours ago, Brodex said:

Some servers do pretend, yeah, but there were servers with huge onlines. I was playing on one of the hugest private russian servers that had more than 6000 players online while having l2 off interlude files about ten years ago. It never had any queues or lag problems. Every town was full of players and shops so im pretty sure the online they were showing on their website wasnt an exaggeration. Actually, even the online number on old retail servers was around 6k too without stupid queues - ncsoft just wants to milk more money from players with the queues - limiting the slots. Hell, even stupid League of Legends when it was hugest had 2k or 3k queues, but you had to wait 10 minutes to login, not 9 hours.

Indeed, I see such a thing for the first time too.

5 hours ago, Krissa said:

That's what all companies do, legal or illegal. They act in a way that brings them money.

Illegal servers need to pretend that they have more players than they actually have, because it brings "don.ations". NCsoft doesn't have such a problem on the current Classic servers.

But that is another stupid point. Most illegal servers now use a cash shop. Also they have no benefits from the fake numbers. They compete in huge platforms, where the ranking depends from the votes of the players. That is why they do not need to pretend. They need real voting players.

[Arinulis]

5 hours ago, Brodex said:

Some servers do pretend, yeah, but there were servers with huge onlines. I was playing on one of the hugest private russian servers that had more than 6000 players online while having l2 off interlude files about ten years ago. It never had any queues or lag problems. Every town was full of players and shops so im pretty sure the online they were showing on their website wasnt an exaggeration. Actually, even the online number on old retail servers was around 6k too without stupid queues - ncsoft just wants to milk more money from players with the queues - limiting the slots. Hell, even stupid League of Legends when it was hugest had 2k or 3k queues, but you had to wait 10 minutes to login, not 9 hours.

Actually, it came out that all priv servers were fudging their numbers. Those online numbers you see, with a little bit of code, you can make it seem like you have 2, 3, 4x the amount of players than you actually do. 

[beleaua]

3 hours ago, Ikcen said:

Now learn what word emulator means.

i think you're the one to learn about it. in the software world it is also synonym to imitate

6 minutes ago, Ikcen said:

Indeed, I see such a thing for the first time too.

and whoever compare this to a moba, where you're not permanently allocated to a single server but multiple servers, have no idea how things works. and the newer ncsoft games there is such a balance between physical servers but not in this ancient game.

and you didn't experience it because you haven't played ncsoft games but simulations of the real game. all ncsoft games i've played had queues. the worst ones were in aion, with 24 servers in 2009 and still long queues

stop pushing your agenda with offline shops. not only that none here can do anything about it, because they publish and not develop l2, but ncsoft korea earns money the more one of their games is up.

go play on your pirate servers if they are so good

[Arinulis]

1 minute ago, beleaua said:

i think you're the one to learn about it. in the software world it is also synonym to imitate

and whoever compare this to a moba, where you're not permanently allocated to a single server but multiple servers, have no idea how things works. and the newer ncsoft games there is such a balance between physical servers but not in this ancient game.

and you didn't experience it because you haven't played ncsoft games but simulations of the real game. all ncsoft games i've played had queues. the worst ones were in aion, with 24 servers in 2009 and still long queues

stop pushing your agenda with offline shops. not only that none here can do anything about it, because they publish and not develop l2, but ncsoft korea earns money the more one of their games is up.

go play on your pirate servers if they are so good

Ewww, I remember the Aion queues in 2009....

[Devoid]

9 hours ago, Ikcen said:

Now learn what word emulator means.

Well, you should probably tell that to Lineage II illegal server makers. I have seen plenty of emulators, especially for legacy OSes and/or hardware, including Microsoft (all undocumented features included) Disk Operating System, PlayStation 1/2, etc.

No matter how obscure and unimportant a feature was, as long as there was anything that depended on it, the emulator guys would manage to get it working.

Compare to L2J 2018 (including nonpublic projects):

• After completing a one-time quest, NPC still shows quest scroll above head if your level matches quest level range (2 minute fix at max, feature was introduced back in C5)
• Instant turn while walking/running (no such thing in any chronicle of real Lineage II whatsoever)
• Archer related calculations are almost all wrong, especially crit related; the l2j guys have a fundamental inability to understand that bow reuse still decreases for some time as you increase your atk. speed past the 1500 cap, etc.
• Pathfinding is absolutely unlike in Lineage II
• Monsters, especially ones with clearly seen custom behavior (e.g. ToI instant-aggro-healer-class-on-spawn mobs) act completely differently (effectively, all monsters are generic retards in l2 "emulators"), even though monsters could have 100% custom behaviors even back in prelude PTS
• I could go on and on and on about L2 emulators in 2018. If you base your knowledge on them, you will be constantly mocked by people who have actually played Lineage II and know a bit about it. As you know nothing.