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It's not P2W yet.... before drops got fixed it was, as it was the only way to hunt with soulshots. The only stuff that is kind of P2W is being able to buy buff scrolls instead of boxing a buffer & xp scrolls, but they give a bunch of free xp scrolls anyway so they're not that big of a deal.

VIP is essentially an over complicated pseudo sub. Definition of P2W is having something you can dump an infinite amount of money into, a pseudo sub doesnt fall into that category.

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That's exactly what a freeloader would say.  

what are you, 12? haven't played any f2p game in your life? someone has to pay for servers maintenance, electric power bill, staff, developers, internet and so on. that money is from people paying for

If that's true then NC West are obviously blind because the most over-crowded server atm is Giran were people from EU play due to the timezone, so why the fck they open 2 new servers that have NA tim

WoW someone defending the most P2W company in the world saying it's not P2W. You do realise they sell double damage shots on the store for IRL money. Or straight up damage buffs. Everything that gives the paying user a straight up advantage over the one who doesn't pay for such an advantage is straight up P2W. Most freeloaders would gladly pay a montly fee for a fair competition but what ticks them off is the fact that you have a superiority complex for calling them "freeloaders" despite you destroying the game by alowing such business model. Let me remind you what hapened to the old classic game we played 14 years ago. Everybody was so happy paying to win that ncsoft decided to even remove drop from mobs so more people would pay 2 win. Refusing to continue to do so made the population drop and forced NCsoft to release this classic version. Game will not die if you refuse to pay for such a service it would just force NCsoft to develop a more fair business model people will accept and pay. But that will never happen as long as people willing to pay for an advantage exist.

Edited by Payne
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13 hours ago, beleaua said:

it's actually decent, no l2 store. but people want for free not p2p

Decent as in only 400 players are ever online ? or 25 euros for 3 months when the russian classic server (which is in the same server rack) only get charged 2 euros a month. It's a rip off and thats why it's dead. You also drop on death, up to 5 items from inventory (which I dont mind) plus your main hand wep can also drop (which was never apart of classic). Then they also have PK scrolls which you can buy in clan halls, all in all it's not a good server at all.

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1 hour ago, airfathaaaaa said:

we have l2.laby for that pretty sure giran is by far the biggest one 

that all depends on the time of the day you look at it which obviously during Euro prime time will show top numbers for Giran while during NA prime time TI will be on top..

anyways there's no right or wrong here as both servers easily reach the server cap period :)

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31 minutes ago, Saffi said:

Decent as in only 400 players are ever online ? or 25 euros for 3 months when the russian classic server (which is in the same server rack) only get charged 2 euros a month. It's a rip off and thats why it's dead. You also drop on death, up to 5 items from inventory (which I dont mind) plus your main hand wep can also drop (which was never apart of classic). Then they also have PK scrolls which you can buy in clan halls, all in all it's not a good server at all.

lies. you don't know how many players are online, there is no official counter like for ncwest. at least there you will find a more realistic number, unlike here where some players box up to a whole party because it's free, so it's hard to judge the number of real players.

lies. the eu classic server is in luxembourg, so not the same rack.

25 euros for 3 months? seems like less than a full subscription here.

drop on death was all the time in our original classic. didn't seem to bother so many thousands of players on so many servers. play with clan.

how do you know pk scrolls aren't in ch here? you don't have a ch yet. even worse, expect in l2 store.

oh and eu doesn't have an l2 store button.

 

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I don't understand why you hate boxes so much. There are no players with a full box party, the average is 1 player + 1 box.

My question is why don't you consider the box a full player? if you're in the party with a player + his buffer box do you not get his buffs? Do you really want to torture a real person to to play a buffer where his only activity is buff people every 20 minutes then watch Netflix?

25€/3 months becomes 50€/3 months on EU Server because you do need a box to level since population is super low abd everybody is high level so you won't find any party below max level.

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whoa slow down. where did i say i hate boxes and even more, so much. speaking of boxes, when you can't just box anything unless you pay, support players tend to be more valuable and invited to parties. here they are forced to box a dd. later on in the game you absolutely need live support players instead of boxed ones. how will it work out when most people are selfish and only a few groups understood the importance of live supports?

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2 hours ago, Payne said:

WoW someone defending the most P2W company in the world saying it's not P2W. You do realise they sell double damage shots on the store for IRL money. Or straight up damage buffs. Everything that gives the paying user a straight up advantage over the one who doesn't pay for such an advantage is straight up P2W. Most freeloaders would gladly pay a montly fee for a fair competition but what ticks them off is the fact that you have a superiority complex for calling them "freeloaders" despite you destroying the game by alowing such business model. Let me remind you what hapened to the old classic game we played 14 years ago. Everybody was so happy paying to win that ncsoft decided to even remove drop from mobs so more people would pay 2 win. Refusing to continue to do so made the population drop and forced NCsoft to release this classic version. Game will not die if you refuse to pay for such a service it would just force NCsoft to develop a more fair business model people will accept and pay. But that will never happen as long as people willing to pay for an advantage exist.

nicely said, .. sad that we don't have actual choice .. let players $ wallet dependent to play with each other as they wish, but save the game and run server sub based without the store bleep

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28 minutes ago, beleaua said:

whoa slow down. where did i say i hate boxes and even more, so much. speaking of boxes, when you can't just box anything unless you pay, support players tend to be more valuable and invited to parties. here they are forced to box a dd. later on in the game you absolutely need live support players instead of boxed ones. how will it work out when most people are selfish and only a few groups understood the importance of live supports?

Your argument is solid. But the key phrase is "later on in the game you absolutely need live support players instead of boxed ones".

L2 EU doesn't have a fresh start hype to bring new low level players, server is old so everyone is already high. So if you want a buffer you can't level with it, you need to power level it with an alt until it's big. So again same problem, impossible to start on EU without a box. Which brings us back to the 50 euro price range.

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10 minutes ago, Payne said:

Your argument is solid. But the key phrase is "later on in the game you absolutely need live support players instead of boxed ones".

L2 EU doesn't have a fresh start hype to bring new low level players, server is old so everyone is already high. So if you want a buffer you can't level with it, you need to power level it with an alt until it's big. So again same problem, impossible to start on EU without a box. Which brings us back to the 50 euro price range.

actually they have things to help you level up very fast at low level, to catch up so to say. from 1 to 20 it was faster because you get a lot more xp scrolls. the more i leveled the more shots and buffs scrolls i got. i used shots from level 1 and ended up with thousands unused. at 20 i ended up with like 18k d-grade shots, a d-grade weapon coupon for 30 days, lots of xp and buff scrolls and so on.

i know what you mean, unless a group decide to move over there, it's less likely you will have the same journey there as you have here. but it seems they are aware a bit, hence he lots of things to help you level fast. i stopped at 20 there but from what others say, it's helping you to get easy 40+.

Edited by beleaua
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From what is see a lot of people have no idea about support class... treats them like something bad that nobody likes but everybody needs it.

Two things:
1. Support class is well liked by a lot of people who don't like too much pvp.Yes. There ARE people who wish that pvp was disabled. (I'm not telling it should!) Because there is no demand for them, we do not see them.
2. Buffs are privilege! as well as ss/sps. It's not something you are entitled to. You must fight to get it. Now you have free buffs (BOX) and free ss (L2shop). Something that you should not get "for free".

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12 minutes ago, Fulkman said:

From what is see a lot of people have no idea about support class... treats them like something bad that nobody likes but everybody needs it.

Two things:
1. Support class is well liked by a lot of people who don't like too much pvp.Yes. There ARE people who wish that pvp was disabled. (I'm not telling it should!) Because there is no demand for them, we do not see them.
2. Buffs are privilege! as well as ss/sps. It's not something you are entitled to. You must fight to get it. Now you have free buffs (BOX) and free ss (L2shop). Something that you should not get "for free".

1. I agree, support is well needed and liked but the discussion was about the EU Server where it's hard to raise a low level support with no party since everyone is high level and it costs too much to dual box in order to raise one from scratch

2. Yes, buffs and ss/sps are a privilege, but it should be a privilege you only get in game for your hard work. Not a P2W privilege.

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4 hours ago, beleaua said:

lies. you don't know how many players are online, there is no official counter like for ncwest. at least there you will find a more realistic number, unlike here where some players box up to a whole party because it's free, so it's hard to judge the number of real players.

lies. the eu classic server is in luxembourg, so not the same rack.

25 euros for 3 months? seems like less than a full subscription here.

drop on death was all the time in our original classic. didn't seem to bother so many thousands of players on so many servers. play with clan.

how do you know pk scrolls aren't in ch here? you don't have a ch yet. even worse, expect in l2 store.

oh and eu doesn't have an l2 store button.

 

God you talk some s**t... Both EU server and GK are in the same rack and even if it wasnt, it would not take away the fact they are charging the EU players way more than for russian classic. Drop on death was in C1 yes but not main hand wep (I know I was there)... Next you only need to walk around the server to see how dead it is I dont need a weatherman to tell me when it's raining... Last thing IF you read the patch notes for this server it says the ONLY way to remove PK's is from the sin eater quest.

Edited by Saffi
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18 hours ago, Devoid said:

Hi all,

two new classic servers coming up for all new players:

  • Gludio (GMT-4)
  • Dion (GMT-5)

Both of these AND Aden will be marked as "recommended" servers to direct new players there instead of TI/Giran.

Stay tuned!

how can i know my ping against them without log in? i dont want log in, i have to wait from 3 to 12 hours for log in

 

is this queue be forever? i think they dont want people play the game and just leave

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15 minutes ago, Saffi said:

God you talk some s**t... Both EU server and GK are in the same rack and even if it wasnt, it would not take away the fact they are charging the EU players way more than for russian classic. Drop on death was in C1 yes but not main hand wep (I know I was there)... Next you only need to walk around the server to see how dead it is I dont need a weatherman to tell me when it's raining... Last thing IF you read the patch notes for this server it says the ONLY way to remove PK's is from the sin eater quest.

if there is anyone talking shit it's you.

you trying to make it look like it's worse there but you just defend a system that is already imbalanced over here. if you don't see it then idk what to say.

it will be even worse with new patches coming, getting caught up with the other regions and updated l2 store.

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18 hours ago, rpgmaniac said:

No it isn't EU has definitely more population, I watch the population at all times not only at prime time, I'm sure about that & you know at the end of the day everyone knows the EU L2 community is much bigger than NA, that's a fact.

Two things are possibly at play here.

1) they are going to open more EU/SA servers, they just did not do it yet.

2) Perhaps, NC is obviously just following incentive here.  The L2 Euro community is likely larger, but they are mostly freebie players, what incentive does NC have to expand servers there?  They are expanding NA servers first for two reasons, one this is a NA specific classic server, and two most importantly NA players spend more money per player (not talking about SA).  Notice they don't open a server with GMT-2?  Not enough BR's pay.  Until enough Euros or BR's become paying customers, don't expect much.  Literally they are deadweight customers from NC's point of view.

Edited by FatHips
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10 minutes ago, FatHips said:

The L2 Euro community is likely larger, but they are mostly freebie players

No idea if that's true & I would like to know how you are so sure that NA has more paying customers than EU but if that's how it is blame the economic crisis.

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9 minutes ago, FatHips said:

2) Perhaps, NC is obviously just following incentive here.  The L2 Euro community is likely larger, but they are mostly freebie players, what incentive does NC have to expand servers there?  They are expanding NA servers first for two reasons, one this is a NA specific classic server, and two most importantly NA players spend more money per player (not talking about SA).  Notice they don't open a server with GMT-2?  Not enough BR's pay.  Until enough Euros or BR's become paying customers, don't expect much.  Literally they are deadweight customers from NC's point of view.

You know that everything what are you saying here has no value. Do you? It is pure speculation. Don't talk like you actually knew something.

Show me some DATA confirming what are you saying.

We don't even know how many actual people is on the servers, who and how much money is spent...

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Now that I'm thinking about it it would be nice if @Hime or @Juji enlighten us about this subject, it's not bad I think if they say in which server people spent more money, TI or Giran? that way people will stop speculate & present TI all the time like the server with the most paying customers, so Juji/Hime can you plz check it out & find out this little info for us? I'm sure it's nothing hard for you.

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20 minutes ago, rpgmaniac said:

No idea if that's true & I would like to know how you are so sure that NA has more paying customers than EU but if that's how it is blame the economic crisis.

Incentives matter.  Cause and effect.

NC opened three more NA-based servers and zero more EU ones. @Fulkman for some data.  Irrefutable, only question is why.  That was indeed speculation, but also not far fetched given the incentives.

I do not know, I'm making the assumption they are following incentives which most businesses do.  I will admit, NC is famous for bad business decisions (f2p for example).  So, who knows? :D

@rpgmaniacCrisis or not, that's apparently what is happening in reality it seems, and also entirely irrelevant, why EU are deadweights does not matter for this conversation.

Edited by FatHips
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4 minutes ago, FatHips said:

NC opened three more NA-based servers and zero more EU ones. @Fulkman for some data.  Irrefutable, only question is why.  That was indeed speculation, but also not far fetched given the incentives.

Ok. In that case please answer my one simple question. How many people from EU play on Aden and TI servers? You can enter the value in percent if you like. Remember to justify your statement.

 

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3 minutes ago, Fulkman said:

Ok. In that case please answer my one simple question. How many people from EU play on Aden and TI servers? You can enter the value in percent if you like. Remember to justify your statement.

 

No idea, can't know.  Unique users is what I believe you're asking.  Though in a way unique users does not matter, the only thing that matters is average # of NC Coins spent per account, from NC's view.  Whether or not those "players" are boxes or not is not relevant to NC.  I am certain their CFO has all of these metrics available on a dashboard and they probably change over time.

I never spoke to who has more population, because it does not matter :)  I stated the obvious that the average customer is "worth more" from NA than EU, which is an assumption based on NC actions.  It very well could be untrue, but also very likely true given the current US economy vs EU, for example.  

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38 minutes ago, beleaua said:

if there is anyone talking shit it's you.

you trying to make it look like it's worse there but you just defend a system that is already imbalanced over here. if you don't see it then idk what to say.

it will be even worse with new patches coming, getting caught up with the other regions and updated l2 store.

People like you only see what they want to see.

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