Another soldier shot down by p2w mechanics.

[Nortewemko]

After another pay to win event to starts 2018 year with left foot, i see another of my favorites guys that make l2 videos on youtube complaining about how the game is totally hanging over to the e-commerce side, how dead is the gaming experience in relation to fun because it is a 14-year-old game whose goal is to participate in olympiads sieges and pvps or even pve not It is possible without you spending a lot of money. No matter how much you kill mobs, you make the daily ones over and over for months or years, you will be stuck and dependent on the store for just items that were to be in-game at the store. To the players who say that it is possible to make adena, my congratulations, logically possible after spending thousands of dollars to make the boss solo, do you think that a new player can make enough to pay the shots? with  Pauline set? Probably if you started today, you would see how impossible the game is, and how biased this game is leading you to the habit of spending to be someone.

Unfortunately the players with years of game and that have spent a lot are apathetic (zombie mode) to say, they have no other option but to really say that the game is good, after all they have already spent much, the real p2w as for the false f2p who continue to say that they never spent anything in the game. I do not know about ncsoft's plans, I'm a bachelor in IT and software and I know how lucrative it is to sell or rent a system, but how laborious it is to support it, but to use it to overpower the players is a way totally disloyal to get money, you are going over the dignity as a company, the experience of gambling and fun and the worst, are over the innocence of people who are addicted to the game and call themselves "competitive" to suck the maximum of money as possible.
Unfortunately from the first day of January until today, there is already the fourth streamer / youtuber / video maker about l2 that moves away from the game for these reasons, loving, being nostalgic or not, no one likes to be harmed for fun, and what we feel every promo store launch and your chances of winning something, and this we feel when an event is launched and is only nerfed to be able to sell in store and stop working as it should be, we feel injured when an update comes and you remove items of the game to add to the store, we are in 2018 and this game requires that you leave your pc on 24h to be able to sell item like store in the cities (pff, no AH excuses). The promo ages that exclude f2p ppl from participate is really unfair.

How can a jewel lvl 4 cost 20b, a jewelry box cost 250kk if a mob drops 800 adena for normal  player that does not have gear and tries to do everything to get that item,
cloacks (p2w forced since removed castle cloaks)as it can cost a cover 120b + if the drop of an instance is a scroll to modify weapon and armor? where is the mathematical logic of this game  than making you to buy ncoin to make adena?

I know as IT company manager thet billets ever come, the spending never decreases for a company that invests, but punish its customers by making the game totally expensive to supply its errors is not politically correct, the first thing that balances the expenses / profit and precisely the quantity of customers, the more customers the less risk and the bigger the return, the less customers, but the more you spend, the greater the risk and the return will be the same, the difference is that in the first option you have more money running, more life to a game that needs more players to run, not a party window with 10 store shop and 2 partys for actual instances, and NC, the ppl is leaving from um game and u ignore , u not answers customers as should, u not implement in game nothing that they ask, difficult coexistence between company and customers.

I hope that the GM really takes seriously the complaints of the players and considering the research on the update in which the percentage of negative feedback was extrapolated, finally stay with the video in which another l2 player who was one of those who made me return to the official after 6 years, but that leaves indignantly like the last 3 that have done since the beginning of the month, sad. Just watch nc, what u are doing with u players. Clobber is not one of the most end game player, but this one is one that represents the majority who try to survive in the game...

 

 

[Diver]

Any other games worthto play? Tryed Aion, WoW and ArcheAge. But they were boring. 

[Znipo]

Even if monsters dropped 10x more adena, you wouldnt be able to compete.

 

You obviously have no intention to work on things, so why do you expect to get things 'for free'?

If it was possible to play 1hr/day and get everything, there would be equal amount of complaints cause people that spend 10hr/day or spend money would still be ahead.

 

Farm orc merchants for easy adena, dimensional warp for bracelet stones.

Setup macro in any of new high lvl zones, almost half the mobs (or more) drop R99 items.

At lower level you can do garden of genesis, zaken/freya to make adena.

Olympiad/ceremony of chaos at any level for steady adena, more alts = better.

 

Point is, can still farm adena/items pretty easily if you put effort into it.

 

 

[Nortewemko]

Tsc tsc tsc, people would not be leaving if they had not tried everything, technically what you wrote as adena farm works on the forum, but we know how the drops are totally nerfs and not even a level 99 player can leave a char with macro in places for char 99 level (paulina+dinasty jewel combination dont let u touch mobs in warp), I would not be writing if I had not tried, really the game does not flow if you do not invest money, I say this because in the last months playing 5h a day just xp for now and also nerfs in relation to korean is dropping. I killed kk's of mobs and no1 drop items in 5 months.... It is a good motivational speech to say that there are ways to make adena, but it would be discouraging if the players had the courage to post in the forum how much they have already spent in total in this game only accessing the transaction history in the accounts of nc that contains the historical ones.

Dude, after do all that u imagine in game , the way that i had get item after paulina was buying ncoin to sell items in city as npc game.

I tell u , new ppl and f2p ppl can't relax in this game, another games like BD ,Bless online have cosmetic store system, cheap xp runes packs and they limit ppl to buy and sell items to balance btw f2p ppl, and the most important, all item is in game, so no excuses for ncsoft improve the game, if u think the game is good, u have gear, u already spended a lot of $ and after it u could "farm". And ppl is leaving bcs they love game ofc. Sorry but farm methods for new and ungeared ppl only works on forums/notepad.

[Helv]

4 hours ago, Znipo said:

You obviously have no intention to work on things, so why do you expect to get things 'for free'?

If it was possible to play 1hr/day and get everything, there would be equal amount of complaints cause people that spend 10hr/day or spend money would still be ahead.

 

Farm orc merchants for easy adena, dimensional warp for bracelet stones.

Setup macro in any of new high lvl zones, almost half the mobs (or more) drop R99 items.

At lower level you can do garden of genesis, zaken/freya to make adena.

Olympiad/ceremony of chaos at any level for steady adena, more alts = better.

 

Point is, can still farm adena/items pretty easily if you put effort into it.

 

 

Dude, in order to farm merchants you need good gear in a first place, I tried with my wynn 103 (Eternal+5, blessed retri+7) and failed miserably.

Macro in high lvl zones? Good luck, theres always someone trying to mess your pt up and it's not easy when your iss and healer are in dynasty.

GOG? Can't kill a signle mob on macro because bots are faster,

Oly/Coc? That's good advice, got 6GE yesterday from quests which is about 30kk... good pocket money for shots, rose which is a must for many parties etc, but will not let me upgrade my gear anytime soon (60kk a week  x 52 weeks  [given I'm always available ] gives around 3.2bil a year and for example retri +12 which would let me get invited into 101+ parties (now i'm always kicked out) is around 45-50bil on Naia)

And it's not that I've not tried hard enough, I've been active for the last 3 years, got some alts for different purposes, but the only thing which made life a bit easier for me throughout this time was fishing (we all know how this all ended) and farming Kartia with an ISS boxed (at the time when Kalios dropped elcy powders instead of modify scrolls and the drop rate seemed a bit better).

Note: it's not that I've never purchased any NC Coins, I would buy some event items in the past as my appreciation, because it was a game I liked. I just don't feel like spending a fortune on a PC game. I decided not to support NC Soft with my Euros after the fishing nerf which exposed how little they care.

PS. I'm afraid this topic will be deleted soon.

[Pleistoros]

Its all about your goals...if you dream to be king of the jungle then better prepare your wallet.

On daily basis its hard ...almost imposible to get adena but you can earn free adena few times per year during events. Fresh start its imposible without using credit card .

Sadly, what Znipo said worked in the past very well...but no more. Why? Coz the amount of adena needed has change...In the past we needed like 2-4 bil while now we need minimum 20-40 bil/month....and those methods provide too little adena  for too much time invested.

Now you can earn high quantity of adena only 2 ways: 1.by credit card, 2. by over enchanting items( I didnt mention gainak&rbs kings or ruling the server clans, etc).

[aelian]

@Nortewemko excellent post. Unfortunately it is as good as saying it to the door by posting it here. I would suggest you post an article on Medium about the issue and tweet it to NC Soft. Way more visible platforms than this forum.

[Asachiara]

First of all you got this game wrong. You watch YT videos of toons which are overdonated or grinding l2 for 10 years. Then you expect to have similar fun or achievement by casual style of playing. This is pure misconception. L2 is was not designed for solo play in top rewarding location (i know few people or classes were able to perform like this but it was 0.001% of the server). L2 was always a cooperation game. You needed CP or an Clan to achieve something. 

1. Misconception 1

just I hit "gear" level i should already have enough adena  +10 sets and +12 2 SA weapon of the new grade. This is not true. L2 was level first gear later. Unless you had several chars including spoils so you grinded recipe and mats instead of level so you were lucky to craft 2 Dark robe sets at lvl 61 for your party.

2. Misconception 2

I can't progress cause i can't solo. imagine that you can get gear just doing Altar/AF/Kama or K95/Spezion now imagine what amount of drops and adena will those no lifers have? It will just make items more expensive. If you make rate 1000x prices will go up 1000x. and you will finally get your pvp +8 set while the guys u look now will run around in +17/20 armors and +40 weapons. So drop rate is not a solution.

3. Misconception 3

Game should be same fun and difficulty level for everyone. No. People who dig into mechanics and set tight and wise cooperation will achieve much more and faster than others. True MMO RPG is about  cooperation and it is not like DOTA 2. Lineage 2 is about grind and progressing.

4. Misconception 4

I can't do a sh1t without Ncoins. You can. It just take longer. Ofc coordinating group of people to achieve a goal is always harder and slower than spend 1000$ for ncoins sell em and buy equip. However if you setup a good teamwork and start to do thing properly you will get thing done.

 

Most common mistakes.

1. People have no clue about game mechanics. People read forums full of advices of end game toons. Do listen do learn do not replicate if you are not the same level or equipment. Tons of people buy +8 sets while having 2 slot brooch with no ruby. It is nice to get 10% reuse but 10% faster reuse of no dmg is still no dmg. Investigate, learn and setup your toon step by step for the next goal you have. People drown billions in enchanting with low LUC not even trying to understand how it works and ending with +2 weapon with 1 SA. while ignoring Ruby 3 on Aden square for 3b. This leads to QQ posts on forums that I logged get to lvl 99 but no "I win" button appear on my skill bar i quit.

2. People don't know how to progress. Let's say you got lvl 99 in R95 sets. If your armor is even twilight but it is FULL elemental resistance you are good to go. No you will not AoE Atelia or Superion. Form a clan, choose people wisely. If you really know how game mechanics work at lvl 99 with 2-3 parties you can start killing Tauti/Ekimus/Balok. You need ncoins? No. Make investment. buy drop rune for adena from Ncoiners,.Make 2-3 instances per hour and split share or manage the items across the clan. each drop will make your party stronger. Of course there will be runs with no drops. In 6=8 months Those 2-3 parties will split and do Tauti/Balok/Ekimus solo. what increase the income. etc. etc. 

3. Exping through instances

K95 and Kama 99 is nice but it will never learn you to play this game. As i said this game is about cooperation and skilled players. find a group make them friends. form CP, join clan. go outside start to aoe with 1 group in AF. It will show you the game requires much more skill and situation reading than you ever encountered in Kama. You will start small. no progress on EXP bar but big progress in skills and in knowing your and other chars. you realize that open field exp is several times faster then kama 99 solo. with lvls 102 Tauti start to be 15 minutes staff 1 one party without +16 bloody weapons and +10 sets. Exp on green mobs with huge aoe rather on Yellow top locations. Exp is about kill rate not about Exp per mob.

4. hype and donators obey

Many CPs does from with a common mistakes. at the beginning you lack of dmg to do everything smoothly so they tend to find lonely wolfs with +12 guns. This will never work. people with very good equip without CP or Clan or they were jumping through clans every 2 months are toxic for you. they will leave you anyway soon. the key is to find people for CP which almost the same expectations. If 6 guys spend ncoins and 7th not. Prepare that you will give him stuff or adena or you will kick him sooner or later. Always find 7 people with several possibilitites. If 4 people can spent 10$ for the game a month for runes find 3 other with the same. 

 

[Ferine]

@Nortewemko  I completely agree with a lot of what you said/your video, although the "but this is a free to play game" stuff I completely disagree with. Nothing is free to play, people should expect to have to pay some to play a game, it's how companies make money. The problem for me is the actual cost of this game. As I posted when I came back to game I was planning $100-$300 a month to slowly catch up and be on curve for the game as an expensive hobby. However with all of the in store junk they added it's nowhere near possible to compete with that.

 

I did some quick guesstimate calculations on that you need to be competitve in L2 now and came up with the following:

• +10 Dark/Bloody Armor - 90b
• +15 Dark/Bloody Weapon - 100b
• Aug - 5b?
• Giant Aug - 30b+?
• Lindvior - 50b
• BAnth - 35b
• BValak - 25b
• Tauti - 10b
• Truth-Seeker - 80b
• Insanity - 35b
• 7s - 35b
• Abundance 4 - 22b
• Venir 14 - 7b?
• +8 Shiny Shirt - $300?
• +15 PvE/PvP Cloak - 90b
• Grtr Jewels x6 - 300b x6 = 1800b 
• 6 slot brooch - 10b?
• lvl 5 agathion - 40b?

 

In total that's 2464 bil + $300 for a shirt. Currently you can NCoin adena at $10/bil, making it $25,140 for a high tier toon. Now I say high tier because even with all of that gear you're still going to get beat by a toon with a $5,000 dragon weapon and pvp scripts.

 

Back not so long ago CPs could actually farm a lot of what people needed and you could work with others and farm/trade to make adena. Nowadays there's nothing in game to support this, raids drop nothing, most of the best gear is NCStore only and most of the epic gear is coming to the market from pay 2 win events.

 

I've got a lot of this, yet I'm still miles away from top. There's not much point in bothering with olympiad and I still get 1-shot for 300k+ by dragon weapons. Those are coming to an event soon also, that'll be fun! 

 

I miss the days where gear and levels weren't so much of an influence on the game and you could pvp at like level 65+.

 

[Asachiara]

why all the people on western market are so mean that fun is only to be at top or bust? I do not have even 50% those items maybe at 35% after 7 long years but i still have fun form this game able to pvp. If you don't have 6x6lvl brooch jewels you will not join MS or Nova simple. There are low of mid tear clans with wars to have fun.

Why you think you can beat a player with 10 years of L2 history after 6 months of playing this game? You won't believe it but if people who play this game for few months in Kama/k95 only and you will give perfect end game gear and put them together they will survive 3s longer against top pvp groups as with R99 +6

[meatbun]

34 minutes ago, Asachiara said:

why all the people on western market are so mean that fun is only to be at top or bust? I do not have even 50% those items maybe at 35% after 7 long years but i still have fun form this game able to pvp. If you don't have 6x6lvl brooch jewels you will not join MS or Nova simple. There are low of mid tear clans with wars to have fun.

Why you think you can beat a player with 10 years of L2 history after 6 months of playing this game? You won't believe it but if people who play this game for few months in Kama/k95 only and you will give perfect end game gear and put them together they will survive 3s longer against top pvp groups as with R99 +6

Even players with 10 year old toons have trouble keeping up without shoveling out real money for the ingame store. I've played the same toon since 2011 and still am constantly one shot in large scale pvp.

Serious question- are there any private NA servers worth considering?

[Asachiara]

If you don't fit 1st league join second. Chronos TOP means pvp 7 brooch brs/DU vs 7 brooch br/uds. No point to even watch on youtube. Don't tell me there are not clans with wars with other 2nd/3rd wave?

[Ferine]

12 minutes ago, Asachiara said:

why all the people on western market are so mean that fun is only to be at top or bust? I do not have even 50% those items maybe at 35% after 7 long years but i still have fun form this game able to pvp. If you don't have 6x6lvl brooch jewels you will not join MS or Nova simple. There are low of mid tear clans with wars to have fun.

Why you think you can beat a player with 10 years of L2 history after 6 months of playing this game? You won't believe it but if people who play this game for few months in Kama/k95 only and you will give perfect end game gear and put them together they will survive 3s longer against top pvp groups as with R99 +6

 

Firstly you don't need 6x greater brooch jewels to join MS or Nova, that's just what's top of top, level 3 or 4 will do. You do need a good proportion of it though.

And I would hope I could beat a player with 10 years of history, because I've been playing for 12 years myself, and invested a lot of time/money also. The fact is I'm ahead of many people, but behind the top and can't catch up without about $10k more investment.

That's my issue with the game as it is now, there's simply no goals to progress towards apart from spending RL money and the gear gap is insane. You can XP and do factions/exalted etc, but it won't improve you as much as getting the next item from the NCStore. Buying the items is a shallow victory, there's no pride and you'll only need something else.

You should have to pay to play a game, you should have to grind for a while to catch up, but the cost/time should be reasonable and the gear gap not so massive.

 

[Asachiara]

We are the same. But i do look on this optimistic. Will i ever have brooch br. No. Will i have +18 cloack no. But do i have fun yes. Do i shout for arranged 7vs7 pvp with brooch BR CP? no and sometime yes just to see. Do my clan have wars which is fun. Yes. Does the enemy have better equip than I? ofc some of them does. But believe me Dark +10 sets, diamond 5 ad physicals +10 with +16 red weapons dies quite often to +12 dark with ruby 4 in one shot if u know what and when you are doing. 

Do i say ruby 4s can defeate Nova? No. but ppl with semi good equip can have fun. If you don't spend for the game stop following videos of Nova/MS/MAX/DH YT channels it is no use for you. Check other clans PvE with casual wars. There are plenty clans without brooch BRs.

The hardest part for ppl is to open war cause 90% of them are afraid loosing or get their PvE interrupted while cake open. But with this approach you should not complain ( i don't mean u Ferine) about lack of pvp. War if u play in CP system and you don't get mad for every 0.0001% exp lost or cake lost for spot pvp you can have loot of fun out there.

[Juano1]

Guys is hard to say but if you are poor you should be studying and working instead of playing games. Otherwise keep being poor but choose a free game like tetris, chess or go play soccer in the streets and stop complaining. It is called capitalism.

[Ferine]

2 minutes ago, Juano1 said:

Guys is hard to say but if you are poor you should be studying and working instead of playing games. Otherwise keep being poor but choose a free game like tetris, chess or go play soccer in the streets and stop complaining. It is called capitalism.

There's a difference between being poor and having $30k to spend on a hobby. Especially one where that money is immediately gone and where the owners don't give a damn about the players, just their wallets.

 

Even $50 a month to play, $100 a month to be competitive would be expensive, but affordable.

[Whatif]

On 1/28/2018 at 1:49 AM, Nortewemko said:

After another pay to win event to starts 2018 year with left foot, i see another of my favorites guys that make l2 videos on youtube complaining about how the game is totally hanging over to the e-commerce side, how dead is the gaming experience in relation to fun because it is a 14-year-old game whose goal is to participate in olympiads sieges and pvps or even pve not It is possible without you spending a lot of money. No matter how much you kill mobs, you make the daily ones over and over for months or years, you will be stuck and dependent on the store for just items that were to be in-game at the store. To the players who say that it is possible to make adena, my congratulations, logically possible after spending thousands of dollars to make the boss solo, do you think that a new player can make enough to pay the shots? with  Pauline set? Probably if you started today, you would see how impossible the game is, and how biased this game is leading you to the habit of spending to be someone.

Unfortunately the players with years of game and that have spent a lot are apathetic (zombie mode) to say, they have no other option but to really say that the game is good, after all they have already spent much, the real p2w as for the false f2p who continue to say that they never spent anything in the game. I do not know about ncsoft's plans, I'm a bachelor in IT and software and I know how lucrative it is to sell or rent a system, but how laborious it is to support it, but to use it to overpower the players is a way totally disloyal to get money, you are going over the dignity as a company, the experience of gambling and fun and the worst, are over the innocence of people who are addicted to the game and call themselves "competitive" to suck the maximum of money as possible.
Unfortunately from the first day of January until today, there is already the fourth streamer / youtuber / video maker about l2 that moves away from the game for these reasons, loving, being nostalgic or not, no one likes to be harmed for fun, and what we feel every promo store launch and your chances of winning something, and this we feel when an event is launched and is only nerfed to be able to sell in store and stop working as it should be, we feel injured when an update comes and you remove items of the game to add to the store, we are in 2018 and this game requires that you leave your pc on 24h to be able to sell item like store in the cities (pff, no AH excuses). The promo ages that exclude f2p ppl from participate is really unfair.

How can a jewel lvl 4 cost 20b, a jewelry box cost 250kk if a mob drops 800 adena for normal  player that does not have gear and tries to do everything to get that item,
cloacks (p2w forced since removed castle cloaks)as it can cost a cover 120b + if the drop of an instance is a scroll to modify weapon and armor? where is the mathematical logic of this game  than making you to buy ncoin to make adena?

I know as IT company manager thet billets ever come, the spending never decreases for a company that invests, but punish its customers by making the game totally expensive to supply its errors is not politically correct, the first thing that balances the expenses / profit and precisely the quantity of customers, the more customers the less risk and the bigger the return, the less customers, but the more you spend, the greater the risk and the return will be the same, the difference is that in the first option you have more money running, more life to a game that needs more players to run, not a party window with 10 store shop and 2 partys for actual instances, and NC, the ppl is leaving from um game and u ignore , u not answers customers as should, u not implement in game nothing that they ask, difficult coexistence between company and customers.

I hope that the GM really takes seriously the complaints of the players and considering the research on the update in which the percentage of negative feedback was extrapolated, finally stay with the video in which another l2 player who was one of those who made me return to the official after 6 years, but that leaves indignantly like the last 3 that have done since the beginning of the month, sad. Just watch nc, what u are doing with u players. Clobber is not one of the most end game player, but this one is one that represents the majority who try to survive in the game...

 

 

I have just one opinion about you m8 ,  Ur a whiner ).  When i started lineage2 i was picking adena from the ground. All you need in lineage is probably subscription and NOTHING esle. Took 7 times hero , without credit card or smthing. I invested only time which i enjoyed and some brains. I bet you still don't get how to actually farm adena . You not able to clearly understand how economics even work in l2.  I wont teach you how to make a money but dude even TODAY you can make 1.5 bilion A WEEK only doing quests. But you are so blinded with your whining instead of researching new possibilities that  you making such stupid videos as this one with loads of tears. LOL. Besides for some reason you made movie after restart and made Giran look empty , i presume that was done intentionally and u actually deserve a ban now

[Feedlee]

2 hours ago, Ferine said:

did some quick guesstimate calculations on that you need to be competitve in L2 now and came up with the following:

• +10 Dark/Bloody Armor - 70b
• +15 Dark/Bloody Weapon - 80b
• Aug - 5b?
• Lindvior - 50b
• BAnth - 35b
• BValak - 25b
• Tauti - 8b
• Truth-Seeker - 60b
• Insanity - 35b
• 7s - 24b
• Abundance 4 - 22b
• Venir 14 - 2.5b?
• +8 Shiny Shirt - $300?
• +15 PvE/PvP Cloak - 70b
• Grtr Jewels x6 - 300b x6 = 1800b (no need 6 grtr jewels) with 100b and lvl4 you are ok
• 6 slot brooch - 10b?  this is 40b but still 5slot is enough
• lvl 5 agathion - 15b? for evolved

 

i corrected lil the prices

total is ~600b  currect price is 7$ per billion so with 4200 $ you have a rly good toon 

and for sure you can farm part of these adena and if you decide play support toon and not DD

the price goes more down

my tank has less equip than this and still i can compete with all the top toons that even have dragon weapon stg 2

[PreX]

You stated a dragon wep is 5k. Current market costs of claws alone are 1 trillion adena for 50 claws if you can even find them. Meaning you would be approaching 1.5 to 2 trillion to craft it to stg 1 at current market pricing dependant on how much (or if you) buy a fragment. Thats 10 to 15 thousand. Hopefully an event comes out to destroy this rediculous monopoly, because it is not possible for other players to even attempt to make it due to 10 or so ppl are holding all of the claws. Normal farming of claws would take more than 8 months considering you got every dragon and kept them all yourself.

[ChuckSteak]

11 hours ago, Asachiara said:

First of all you got this game wrong. You watch YT videos of toons which are overdonated or grinding l2 for 10 years. Then you expect to have similar fun or achievement by casual style of playing. This is pure misconception. L2 is was not designed for solo play in top rewarding location (i know few people or classes were able to perform like this but it was 0.001% of the server). L2 was always a cooperation game. You needed CP or an Clan to achieve something.  

1. Misconception 1

just I hit "gear" level i should already have enough adena  +10 sets and +12 2 SA weapon of the new grade. This is not true. L2 was level first gear later. Unless you had several chars including spoils so you grinded recipe and mats instead of level so you were lucky to craft 2 Dark robe sets at lvl 61 for your party.

2. Misconception 2

I can't progress cause i can't solo. imagine that you can get gear just doing Altar/AF/Kama or K95/Spezion now imagine what amount of drops and adena will those no lifers have? It will just make items more expensive. If you make rate 1000x prices will go up 1000x. and you will finally get your pvp +8 set while the guys u look now will run around in +17/20 armors and +40 weapons. So drop rate is not a solution.

3. Misconception 3

Game should be same fun and difficulty level for everyone. No. People who dig into mechanics and set tight and wise cooperation will achieve much more and faster than others. True MMO RPG is about  cooperation and it is not like DOTA 2. Lineage 2 is about grind and progressing.

4. Misconception 4

I can't do a sh1t without Ncoins. You can. It just take longer. Ofc coordinating group of people to achieve a goal is always harder and slower than spend 1000$ for ncoins sell em and buy equip. However if you setup a good teamwork and start to do thing properly you will get thing done.

 

SO much of this is so wrong. I mean no great disrespect, but lets not be delusional here before this post gets deleted. You shouldn't need to do mental gymnastics to justify why you are enjoying a game. Why shouldn't a casual player expect to have as much fun as a hard core player?

Your first misconception is writing so many, ever fewer actually, players off as "casual". What you mean is NON-WHALES or F2P. With this being at this point, a dying out cult classic of just a few hundred people left playing, there are few to no "casual players" running around. Insinuating that they should not qualify to have as much fun as the spenders, or WHALES, is a form of endorsing the F'ed up "haves and have nots" system NC soft has set up. Even that is not a good term as its more aptly the "weak minded and the non-tards". The lottery that we have in America is setup almost exactly this same way, although far less predatory. Now I will try to help out here;

1.

People don't get upset at hitting lvl 99 and not having +10 gear. They get mad when they hit 100 or approach 101 and still have no way to fund a simple +3 R99 set with element. Spoiling would be an amazing solution to this, except they removed that from the game, along with drops. By all means please calculate how many K99s it would take to attempt to craft one part of an R99 armor. This alone makes me wonder if you have played in the last few years. You speak of things long gone, like spoils and drops.

2.

Bumping adena drop rate only, would make things more expensive, but everyone would have the proportional amount of increased adena. Bumping the adena drop rate and adding back in the spoils and drops will make all gear more abundant. More gear + more adena + same amount of people....do a supply and demand curve, the costs of everything would drop. +6 sets would become more rare and +10 sets would become more prominent due to EAR scrolls also being more abundant from spoils and drops. This in and of itself helps balance the players, takes some cash away from the L2 store, and renders the services of many RMTs useless. Enchanting items above 16 does not get easier with increased drop rates. Actually, the enchanting success is not at all tied to drops. You would still need the same amount of base items to go that high, witch arguably would be easier to obtain, but still very difficult to go that high. Your being hyperbolic with this one all the way.

3.

"Lineage 2 is about grind and progressing." <== Exactly this. This is NOT what L2 is about today. Grind all you want, you will not progress to where you want to go without getting items that are exclusive to the store. These amazing people who "dig into mechanics"?! They dug into thousands of USD at the store or another website. 

You are not right to say that some people, for any reason, do not deserve the same amount of fun and difficulty. A game should under NO circumstance be more difficult for people who do not have $20,000. There is a place for that, called college. What everyone who is sane wants, is a game where the difficulty is the SAME for everyone. Where the opportunity to get a shiny shirt, or some broach jewels, or a bleep cloak is the same for everyone playing. Not easy. I never said that, but the SAME. So that you understand me, I LOVE the 10k mob quest at 103. This is exactly what L2 should be like as far as difficulty goes. All of that is out the window when it comes to items that only exist if you pay for them.

4.

You will go on to contradict yourself in a following paragraph where you imply a CP should be using the L2 store. Soo, how does your CP with "0" Ncoins ever spent look? How long would it take to get there? Tell me, how do you go about getting gear that only spawns from ye ol L2 store? Oh you gunna buy it from someone who bought it with cash? How can you value it when its a direct translation of cash for adena? 

So let me say it, you can't do sh1t with out the L2 store. You can work with a clan, make a +6 to +8 armor set, get 103+ and always wonder why you cant go solo/small group superion or GC lower or a new area. You can't do it without epic jewels, without broach jewels, without OE shirts, without 2 SAs on a full element +12 or more wep, without at least a bloody set, without giants crit if you wanna solo. Its about stacking dmg and element and defense. You need the gear to allow you to stack, that gear is not coming from mobs.

-CS

[Tool_of_Society]

This thread is hilarious. Znipo and Asachiara are just full of assumptions and nearly worthless "advice". It's almost as if they haven't played the game in years and are just here to troll the players.

 

Meatbun : I'm currently playing 5 characters from 2003 and 2004. I'm absolutely unable to compete in serious pvp and I have issues with end game PVE due to all the factors mentioned above. Back when I started this game you could at least pay for shots with the drops and have some left over to work on you next set of gear (unlike today). Sure you might be 75 and still wearing A gear but at least you weren't effectively a million miles behind the few that had S gear. Today even with +6 r95 you're not even a speed bump to those with +10 everything r99/cloaks/etc. If you're wearing that +6 r95 at 99 or above then good luck even getting into a party as anything. My healer from 2003 was rejected by a k99 party because I only had +6 r95 armor. Didn't matter that it was full 120 element or that I had a weapon with two HP SAs.. Nope apparently if your healer isn't in r99 with +8 you're never going to complete k99 ...lol.. Iss ran into similar situations because apparently ISS need a +8 weapon to buff....


So basically I gave up on the player base and now I spend my time boxing CC/balor k99 and AF with characters that according to the majority of people I've met in LFG cannot compete a kartia due to lack of gear... I also do zaken still as it's quick and the adena is reasonable. Macroing in the open world as suggested by the above mentioned trolls usually results in some +10 geared people showing up so they can spend 20 minutes trying to get me to flag so they can get something resembling the pvp they desperately want. PVP for them being the ability to mass slaughter others without a real challenge because they spent thousands of $$.

 

Personally I would be happy enough with the ability to upgrade my gear via quests, dungeons and other typical MMO methods. Not though the current method of dropping a thousand or two per character on NC coins. I'm fine with being absolutely outmatched by the credit card warriors as long as I was still able to get into a gludio or AF party..
 

[Asachiara]

11 hours ago, ChuckSteak said:

SO much of this is so wrong. I mean no great disrespect, but lets not be delusional here before this post gets deleted. You shouldn't need to do mental gymnastics to justify why you are enjoying a game. Why shouldn't a casual player expect to have as much fun as a hard core player?

Your first misconception is writing so many, ever fewer actually, players off as "casual". What you mean is NON-WHALES or F2P. With this being at this point, a dying out cult classic of just a few hundred people left playing, there are few to no "casual players" running around. Insinuating that they should not qualify to have as much fun as the spenders, or WHALES, is a form of endorsing the F'ed up "haves and have nots" system NC soft has set up. Even that is not a good term as its more aptly the "weak minded and the non-tards". The lottery that we have in America is setup almost exactly this same way, although far less predatory. Now I will try to help out here;

1.

People don't get upset at hitting lvl 99 and not having +10 gear. They get mad when they hit 100 or approach 101 and still have no way to fund a simple +3 R99 set with element. Spoiling would be an amazing solution to this, except they removed that from the game, along with drops. By all means please calculate how many K99s it would take to attempt to craft one part of an R99 armor. This alone makes me wonder if you have played in the last few years. You speak of things long gone, like spoils and drops.

2.

Bumping adena drop rate only, would make things more expensive, but everyone would have the proportional amount of increased adena. Bumping the adena drop rate and adding back in the spoils and drops will make all gear more abundant. More gear + more adena + same amount of people....do a supply and demand curve, the costs of everything would drop. +6 sets would become more rare and +10 sets would become more prominent due to EAR scrolls also being more abundant from spoils and drops. This in and of itself helps balance the players, takes some cash away from the L2 store, and renders the services of many RMTs useless. Enchanting items above 16 does not get easier with increased drop rates. Actually, the enchanting success is not at all tied to drops. You would still need the same amount of base items to go that high, witch arguably would be easier to obtain, but still very difficult to go that high. Your being hyperbolic with this one all the way.

3.

"Lineage 2 is about grind and progressing." <== Exactly this. This is NOT what L2 is about today. Grind all you want, you will not progress to where you want to go without getting items that are exclusive to the store. These amazing people who "dig into mechanics"?! They dug into thousands of USD at the store or another website. 

You are not right to say that some people, for any reason, do not deserve the same amount of fun and difficulty. A game should under NO circumstance be more difficult for people who do not have $20,000. There is a place for that, called college. What everyone who is sane wants, is a game where the difficulty is the SAME for everyone. Where the opportunity to get a shiny shirt, or some broach jewels, or a bleep cloak is the same for everyone playing. Not easy. I never said that, but the SAME. So that you understand me, I LOVE the 10k mob quest at 103. This is exactly what L2 should be like as far as difficulty goes. All of that is out the window when it comes to items that only exist if you pay for them.

4.

You will go on to contradict yourself in a following paragraph where you imply a CP should be using the L2 store. Soo, how does your CP with "0" Ncoins ever spent look? How long would it take to get there? Tell me, how do you go about getting gear that only spawns from ye ol L2 store? Oh you gunna buy it from someone who bought it with cash? How can you value it when its a direct translation of cash for adena? 

So let me say it, you can't do sh1t with out the L2 store. You can work with a clan, make a +6 to +8 armor set, get 103+ and always wonder why you cant go solo/small group superion or GC lower or a new area. You can't do it without epic jewels, without broach jewels, without OE shirts, without 2 SAs on a full element +12 or more wep, without at least a bloody set, without giants crit if you wanna solo. Its about stacking dmg and element and defense. You need the gear to allow you to stack, that gear is not coming from mobs.

-CS

1. Loooool how many k99 it takes loooooooooooooool. usually u drop as CP 1-2 r99 armor full parts in GC/AF/Eleven a week if you grind it for exp and factions. Why do hell i will do k99 for equip? If you 99 and u start to grind AF/GC/HB 3 hours a day for factions you get 102 in 2-3 months (no cakes/runes). Does it mean that in 3 months you should be able to make 7x R99 sets +8 and +12 weapons? No never in L2 style of game. 

2. Adding adena drop will just create inflation nothing more. If you make increase drop rates to insane level and make items abundant and you will make this game private x10000 rate server with 50 players with everything +40. Cause if you will able to create +17 sets just 2 hours playing ppl who really owns the fields will be +40 means u still don't do dmg and u will be one shot anyway. In addition people ignore the mechanics about LUC and wasting billions for falied enchants. I do see complaining players that are without adena but they are best buyers of useless items like appearances, every red libra new dual and again wasting adena for enchanting skills but not using roses cause they are expensive rendering them unable to grind harder locations... Why these people should really get easy on getting good items if they don't understand how the game works?

3. This point u got it wrong. This point was about cooperation. Solo players just joining random parties for 1h long gameplay should not be able to achieve the same than 30 ppl in clan with CP system and good cooperation, organization and really deep knowledge of the game. this is how the MMO RGP should be made.

4. 1st u learn to play in group in difficult situation. Yes you will die a lot at the beginning and yes you will not be able to AoE many group as +10 guys. But once you start do kill normal tauti you can use drops of BEWRs and BEARs you just sell to shop to shout WTB 60ncoins and get drop rate 200% rune from players who actually spend $ on the game. It is not that hard it just slower. just by creating CC with 14 people able to kill Tauti/Epic tauti/Ekimus and Balok with drop runes will grant you income which is 1000x higher than K99 and K95 EARs. But this game should NOT be rewarding much for K99 or k95 or AF/Altar instances. cause you are talking about 0.02% of game content what 95% of the server population do as the only thing they know how to and used to.

[ChuckSteak]

11 hours ago, Asachiara said:

1. Loooool how many k99 it takes loooooooooooooool. usually u drop as CP 1-2 r99 armor full parts in GC/AF/Eleven a week if you grind it for exp and factions. Why do hell i will do k99 for equip? If you 99 and u start to grind AF/GC/HB 3 hours a day for factions you get 102 in 2-3 months (no cakes/runes). Does it mean that in 3 months you should be able to make 7x R99 sets +8 and +12 weapons? No never in L2 style of game. 

2. Adding adena drop will just create inflation nothing more. If you make increase drop rates to insane level and make items abundant and you will make this game private x10000 rate server with 50 players with everything +40. Cause if you will able to create +17 sets just 2 hours playing ppl who really owns the fields will be +40 means u still don't do dmg and u will be one shot anyway. In addition people ignore the mechanics about LUC and wasting billions for falied enchants. I do see complaining players that are without adena but they are best buyers of useless items like appearances, every red libra new dual and again wasting adena for enchanting skills but not using roses cause they are expensive rendering them unable to grind harder locations... Why these people should really get easy on getting good items if they don't understand how the game works?

3. This point u got it wrong. This point was about cooperation. Solo players just joining random parties for 1h long gameplay should not be able to achieve the same than 30 ppl in clan with CP system and good cooperation, organization and really deep knowledge of the game. this is how the MMO RGP should be made.

4. 1st u learn to play in group in difficult situation. Yes you will die a lot at the beginning and yes you will not be able to AoE many group as +10 guys. But once you start do kill normal tauti you can use drops of BEWRs and BEARs you just sell to shop to shout WTB 60ncoins and get drop rate 200% rune from players who actually spend $ on the game. It is not that hard it just slower. just by creating CC with 14 people able to kill Tauti/Epic tauti/Ekimus and Balok with drop runes will grant you income which is 1000x higher than K99 and K95 EARs. But this game should NOT be rewarding much for K99 or k95 or AF/Altar instances. cause you are talking about 0.02% of game content what 95% of the server population do as the only thing they know how to and used to.

1. I am having some serious doubts you have played in the last 24 months. I think you missed the point. I am wondering, how you got the gear required to do AF. You are not going out there and doing anything at lvl 99 in AF, let alone without a good set of R99 gear that is full element and some OE on it. As I pointed out, you are not getting that gear from K99 or ANY field exp. I would assume you used the L2 store and converted some USD to adena to buy some R99 gear....best case scenario.

2. Oddly enough, you are a proponent of using the L2 store (literally giving money away to get a chance to pretend to own a virtual item that they legally retain all rights to), but feel the need to criticize how others want to spend their fictional currency on changing their toon as they see fit.

Ignoring that and your thoughts on LUC, you are so hyperbolic with this example of yours its silly. The players have asked for the same drop rates as other regions, and all items to be available in game. Not 10000x private server settings, although I could make an argument for that. This is something I think you have invented. Unlike you, I will offer some examples of how this is working acceptably; L2 Korea, L2Japan, L2Russia... none of these servers have +40 armors nor NEAR the degree of a gap that we have between players here in Fail2 West.

3. FYI there is no real "CP" system. This is a player created style, and yes it works very well when everyone has the same mindset (all party use L2 store), the same availability and the same commitment.

Solo players, via L2 store exclusive gear, DO go and achieve what 50 people in a clan working together cannot. Have you seen the videos of people soloing 105 field raids? I have watched non-major clans take several parties out to go and do this successfully. Hell, I have seen solo titans with over $20,000 in gear kill a big raid boss before 2 nova parties could dent it...and they were there first!

4. I have personal experience of doing the major raids 1-2x a week for almost 2 years straight, I led them personally. All of that time, I had the prestige pack with a drop rune that it comes with. The other members had at least that, and often the more expensive one as well. I will tell you this, you can outfit everyone in a tauti shirt (yayyyy almost as good as a +5 shiny shirt!). We received for our efforts, 1 Tauti ring, 1 ekimus belt, some misc R95 parts and lots and lots of monster appearance stones. Again , this is consistent farming for 2 years....with drop runes.

Respond with as much BS as you want, you really sound like you don't/haven't played this game as it is. I am not making this stuff up. I have played since prelude. I have played with whales, I have played with FTP champs, most people I played with are in the middle. Its horrendous advice to tell someone at 99 to form a CP and go farm their R99 gear in AF. It is irresponsible of you to say normalizing our server rates would lead to some people getting GM gear (they rock +50 for fun). Its a really odd stance to take, I wonder now, do you work for NC soft?

-CS

[Tool_of_Society]

Chucksteak : I can't help but feel that asachiara hasn't really played the game in ages. His posts are consistently clueless about the current state of the game and drops. I mean seriously he suggested a fresh 99 could go farm AF for drops. I can't help but feel that he credit card warriored his way to the end game and thus has no clue how hard it is for people who aren't willing to drop thousands on one character.  His following comment indicates to me that he has something against people who don't drop hundreds on the game.

Quote

get drop rate 200% rune from players who actually spend $ on the game.

You know implying that we're all a bunch of freeloaders demanding everything for free. That flows with everything else in his post about how we want a private server level of stupidity and not just minor adjustments to at least put us in line with other official lineage 2 servers...

[Znipo]

4 hours ago, Tool_of_Society said:

Chucksteak : I can't help but feel that asachiara hasn't really played the game in ages. His posts are consistently clueless about the current state of the game and drops. I mean seriously he suggested a fresh 99 could go farm AF for drops. I can't help but feel that he credit card warriored his way to the end game and thus has no clue how hard it is for people who aren't willing to drop thousands on one character.  His following comment indicates to me that he has something against people who don't drop hundreds on the game.

You know implying that we're all a bunch of freeloaders demanding everything for free. That flows with everything else in his post about how we want a private server level of stupidity and not just minor adjustments to at least put us in line with other official lineage 2 servers...

He says you should purchase it for adena. 

 

He is right about most of what he says.