kupuldog Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 As far as I see there're 2 types of bots - spoilers and adena farmers (spider quest) who are usually mages. I have got an idea of 2 pretty innocent solutions: 1) In order to take adena quest you have to enter captcha. It will prevent botters from running freely back and forward for adena quests. 2) Spoilers - every spoiler gets captcha every 1 hour or something like this excluding town area, timer starts ticking as soon as any button is pushed inside of the game, if failed to enter captcha, ban on the spot. I think this 2 things would eliminate big amount of bots. @Juji @Hime P.s. people don't be so ignorant and fearful to push report button. If you suspect person is a bot, check it. Still doubting as he can be semi afk not looking into chat? Just push report button, person will enter captcha and nothing will happen to both sides. If he's bot indeed, you'll get more mobs to farm as bot will get debuff. There're no bad sides of report button for you so no reason to avoid pushing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kupuldog Posted October 23, 2018 Author Share Posted October 23, 2018 Adena spammers very similar sollution - instead of chat ban you put captcha. Failed to enter? Ban. Person who was spamming his friend or w/e is still present, you can't get chat ban while not present so it's impossible to fail entering it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devoid Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 People reported for botting while farming need to enter a captcha once a certain threshold of reports is exceeded. Did that get rid of any bots? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kupuldog Posted October 23, 2018 Author Share Posted October 23, 2018 13 minutes ago, Devoid said: People reported for botting while farming need to enter a captcha once a certain threshold of reports is exceeded. Did that get rid of any bots? No. Report button doesn't work because: 1. It's once a day for only 1 hour. So bots can freely farm every day 23 hours out of 24. You can't get debuff 2 times a day. 2. People think they will get banned for false report which is not true so they just don't report. Nr.2 statement was done by my recently done experiment. I saw bots doing soe as soon as they get captcha, I thought it might eliminate captcha so I went to ask people to report me. 50% of people said no because they think they will get banned for false report as soon as I will enter captcha (????) Conclusion about soe - you stay in the city for 1 hour 20min, debuff is done and you're free to farm with a bot so people won't be sending tickets - bot with debuff farming. P.s. I had to explain how to report me to some people who trusted me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kupuldog Posted October 23, 2018 Author Share Posted October 23, 2018 47 minutes ago, Devoid said: People reported for botting while farming need to enter a captcha once a certain threshold of reports is exceeded. Did that get rid of any bots? No. also you can push report button only once per 30min. I see you haven't done much reporting as you don't know how it works. Don't be ignorant, report them and help yourself to have more mobs and less RMT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poultrygeist Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 This will not get rid of bots and will be an annoyance to people boxing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devoid Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 6 minutes ago, kupuldog said: also you can push report button only once per 30min. I see you haven't done much reporting as you don't know how it works. Don't be ignorant, report them and help yourself to have more mobs and less RMT Stop replying to yourself. I see you are not familiar with the report system. The whole point is not to report 1000 players all by yourself (since that would be abuse of the system), it is to know the thresholds and do organized reporting. Make sure your clan is divided to "report units", each unit reports one disjoint set of bot characters a day (yes, waiting those 30 min between chars to be reported), you don't do overlapping reports between different units, etc. Organized reporting is how you report. That's literally how we chatbanned socket for months. If you think you are going to run around solo reporting random people and get away with it, you are sorely mistaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kupuldog Posted October 23, 2018 Author Share Posted October 23, 2018 Huh? You guys aren't giving constructed feedback about my suggestions, instead you're giving something else. Sorry but I don't see anything in your responses about:1) In order to take adena quest you have to enter captcha. It will prevent botters from running freely back and forward for adena quests.2) Spoilers - every spoiler gets captcha every 1 hour or something like this excluding town area, timer starts ticking as soon as any button is pushed inside of the game, if failed to enter captcha, ban on the spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauge Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 As long as one person is there to check the account, they will never be banned. That's just how it is here. Bots are here to stay, the real question is, knowing that they will not solve this issue, do you still want to play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kupuldog Posted October 23, 2018 Author Share Posted October 23, 2018 8 minutes ago, Devoid said: Stop replying to yourself. I see you are not familiar with the report system. The whole point is not to report 1000 players all by yourself (since that would be abuse of the system), it is to know the thresholds and do organized reporting. Make sure your clan is divided to "report units", each unit reports one disjoint set of bot characters a day (yes, waiting those 30 min between chars to be reported), you don't do overlapping reports between different units, etc. Organized reporting is how you report. That's literally how we chatbanned socket for months. If you think you are going to run around solo reporting random people and get away with it, you are sorely mistaken. I dont run and randomly report people. I check, if I think it's bot I encourage people around to report it, eventually some do get debuffs and we get more mobs to farm. But the thing is report button is broken as it gives very little penalty and very little opportunity to report multiple bots (to make them have debuff). If it would be different, more people would report them and eventually they would stay debuffed. It's not smart to abuse report button so I'm elliminating this scenario and I have proof that people don't want to do it:I went to ask people to report me. 50% of people said no because they think they will get banned for false report as soon as I will enter captcha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kupuldog Posted October 23, 2018 Author Share Posted October 23, 2018 3 hours ago, Gauge said: As long as one person is there to check the account, they will never be banned. That's just how it is here. Bots are here to stay, the real question is, knowing that they will not solve this issue, do you still want to play? Not really. Especially after yesterday when I met person who I submitted ticket. 3 dark elves were farming in spider nest on bot 2 weeks ago, all of them ended up debuffed and dead. And so yesterday i met 1 of the bots running alongside owner as buffer being 30+ level Shilen oracle. I submited ticket and today I was replied about it (it's pretty soon...) You can guys check yourself how soon he will get banned. [edited to remove names] Btw reply from support about him and shit tone of other bots:I appreciate your report and concern to our Lineage 2 community. However, we are still on the process of investigating the reported characters. While the Game surveillance investigation takes time and all the bot reports are being processed in the order received. It is inevitable that we could have missed some of those players who exploits the usage of 3rd party programs. Despite the fact that bot exploiters are relentless we can assure you that the game surveillance unit operation does not stop 24/7 and all accounts found to be guilty will be dealt with accordingly. We ask for your patience and understanding while we are working on this.Regards, Eloi NCSOFT Support Team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arinulis Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 5 hours ago, kupuldog said: As far as I see there're 2 types of bots - spoilers and adena farmers (spider quest) who are usually mages. I have got an idea of 2 pretty innocent solutions: 1) In order to take adena quest you have to enter captcha. It will prevent botters from running freely back and forward for adena quests. 2) Spoilers - every spoiler gets captcha every 1 hour or something like this excluding town area, timer starts ticking as soon as any button is pushed inside of the game, if failed to enter captcha, ban on the spot. I think this 2 things would eliminate big amount of bots. @Juji @Hime P.s. people don't be so ignorant and fearful to push report button. If you suspect person is a bot, check it. Still doubting as he can be semi afk not looking into chat? Just push report button, person will enter captcha and nothing will happen to both sides. If he's bot indeed, you'll get more mobs to farm as bot will get debuff. There're no bad sides of report button for you so no reason to avoid pushing it. How about NO. To what is in bold. As a spoiler, I don't want to be in the middle of killing a mob and have that damned thing pop up on me, and me risk losing 4%. That only hurts players more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WutWutWut Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 5 hours ago, kupuldog said: Adena spammers very similar sollution - instead of chat ban you put captcha. Failed to enter? Ban. Person who was spamming his friend or w/e is still present, you can't get chat ban while not present so it's impossible to fail entering it. omfg just add 2 pm max per minute Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BangOut Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 omg guys, what if we had an active GMs that would that would teleport suspicious people somewhere, ask them to do a simple task and upon fail just ban them and all the associated accounts? haha. wouldn't that be crazy? guys, ha ha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kupuldog Posted October 23, 2018 Author Share Posted October 23, 2018 1 hour ago, Arinulis said: How about NO. To what is in bold. As a spoiler, I don't want to be in the middle of killing a mob and have that damned thing pop up on me, and me risk losing 4%. That only hurts players more. How about you go and ask people to report you and you'll see how captcha works. It's very small window and gives you 15min to enter it so there's no possibility to die. Here how it looks like, you can move it, it doesn't appear in the center, I manually moved it to the center. It appears in the left botton corner on the chat screen or above chat, don't remember correctly. As you can see there's a timer and you're not frozen, you can still do whatever you want, as for example I did SOE when I got it. https://imgur.com/a/XLq91Jm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arinulis Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 Just now, kupuldog said: How about you go and ask people to report you and you'll see how captcha works. It's very small window and gives you 15min to enter it so there's no possibility to die. Here how it looks like, you can move it, it doesn't appear in the center, I manually moved it to the center. As you can see there's a timer and you're not frozen, you can still do whatever you want, as for example I did SOE when I got it. https://imgur.com/a/XLq91Jm I know how captcha works. I also know that it would be a HUGE inconvenience to anyone who is playing. You don't stop botters by punishing all. Sorry, but, that's just not a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentColpa Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 the captcha ts inconvenient to us and easy to bypass for the bots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arinulis Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 Just now, VincentColpa said: the captcha ts inconvenient to us and easy to bypass for the bots This, 100x this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kupuldog Posted October 23, 2018 Author Share Posted October 23, 2018 1 minute ago, Arinulis said: I know how captcha works. I also know that it would be a HUGE inconvenience to anyone who is playing. You don't stop botters by punishing all. Sorry, but, that's just not a good idea. Why? As long as you're present it takes couple of seconds to enter it, you won't die, to prevent afk bans, there should be no timer in captcha until person performs some kind of action which indicates he's present and so which means he can enter captcha - timer begins ticking. You just deny with no real explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kupuldog Posted October 23, 2018 Author Share Posted October 23, 2018 1 minute ago, Arinulis said: This, 100x this. 2 minutes ago, VincentColpa said: the captcha ts inconvenient to us and easy to bypass for the bots so please tell me why do we see bots with debuffs? Then lets change captcha to Pin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arinulis Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 Just now, kupuldog said: Why? As long as you're present it takes couple of seconds to enter it, you won't die, to prevent afk bans, there should be no timer in captcha until person performs some kind of action which indicates he's present and so which means he can enter captcha - timer begins ticking. You just deny with no real explanation. Imagine, you're leveling, you're in a zone and all of a sudden boom captcha window pops up. Now you have to put in the captcha, but, if you fat finger something, like I do most days. Instantly banned according to your solution. How is that right to me, a legit player? Now imagine this happening every hour on the hour. It would get old. This punishes legit players more than botters, because eventually the botters will figure out a way to beat captcha and then it's just the legit players getting hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arinulis Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, kupuldog said: so please tell me why do we see bots with debuffs? Then lets change captcha to Pin I imagine they haven't figured out how to beat the captcha yet, but, as with all things, eventually someone will beat it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kupuldog Posted October 23, 2018 Author Share Posted October 23, 2018 1 minute ago, Arinulis said: Imagine, you're leveling, you're in a zone and all of a sudden boom captcha window pops up. Now you have to put in the captcha, but, if you fat finger something, like I do most days. Instantly banned according to your solution. How is that right to me, a legit player? Now imagine this happening every hour on the hour. It would get old. This punishes legit players more than botters, because eventually the botters will figure out a way to beat captcha and then it's just the legit players getting hit. https://imgur.com/a/XLq91Jm have you even looked into this screen? You can tipe it with mouse. You have several attemps, you have 15min to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arinulis Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 Just now, kupuldog said: https://imgur.com/a/XLq91Jm have you even looked into this screen? You can tipe it with mouse. You have several attemps, you have 15min to do it. My bad I completely misread your post, I thought you said input error one time, instant ban. Still I don't think this is the best way to do it. I agree we need something, anything to combat the bot problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kupuldog Posted October 23, 2018 Author Share Posted October 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, Arinulis said: My bad I completely misread your post, I thought you said input error one time, instant ban. Still I don't think this is the best way to do it. I agree we need something, anything to combat the bot problem. I wish I could edit my first post, I could have put more explanation as not everyone knows how captcha on this server works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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