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This topic is not about general drop/spoil rate problems. This is to show where is not spoil rewarded as it suppose to be.

So far I am at 28lvl. Spoiling Partisan Hideway.

Have noticed that my spoiled monster: Ol Mahum Raider do not give correct spoil as it showed here: https://l2wiki.com/classic/Ol_Mahum_Raider

Animal Bones drops per spoil 1-3p: should be 1-5

Iron Ore always only 1:  should be 1-3

 

Please add your monitoring from spoil where is not correct spoil items/amounts.

 

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Do you have DB where is rates supposed to be for this particular server? Because so far mine mentioned DB is closest with info what drops and spoils from particular monsters.

If you have any info about DB which is for This serv. Just hit a link please.

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4 minutes ago, Lurswena said:

Do you have DB where is rates supposed to be for this particular server? Because so far mine mentioned DB is closest with info what drops and spoils from particular monsters.

If you have any info about DB which is for This serv. Just hit a link please.

well, everything about l2wiki ( almost everything ) is correct. The only thing ( besides some others, for example monster names ) that is not correct is the rates. probably you divide them 60/70%? if someone can confirm me... so if you have a drop rate of 50% in the website, consider it around 10%-20%, or maybe lower, in this server.

but that is something that can't be confirmed because it looks like it depends on the monsters your spoiling...

Edited by VincentColpa
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1 minute ago, Lurswena said:

Well It's rates. That's another story, I talk about Amount of Spoiled when you hit it. 

Sure rates are f**** up here. But drop amounts/Items so far was correctly.. 

yup, but the items itself ( drop and spoil ) are correct. 

about the amount, its like the same... if you have 1-3 probably you will get only 1 always ( 90% rate ) and never more than 1 ( probably )

if you have 1-5 you can have 1-3, you also confirmed that... you can stick with that numbers to "calculate" other rates

but be aware that this "patched hardcore god 1.5 massive classic" its like a downgraded version of the original they had.. and when they downgrade servers like this mobs can get messy... and you saw that when server launched, like mobs giving 500 adena of level 25... so everything its a little bit uncertain

but until now l2wiki was correct in terms of what items monsters drop... in terms of rates well... NOWONE KNOWS... if NCSOFT provided even a simple EXCEL containing all monster drop info/rates...

BUT I BET THAT THEY DONT EVEN KNOW THE RATES!!! AHAH!!!!

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5 hours ago, Lurswena said:

Do you have DB where is rates supposed to be for this particular server?

I think the drop chances and amounts on the official servers are supposed to be a secret.

Innova publishes their settings (l2wiki), but they are likely boosted compared to NCsoft servers in order to make the game more compelling to Innova customers.

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1 hour ago, Krissa said:

Innova publishes their settings (l2wiki), but they are likely boosted compared to NCsoft servers in order to make the game more compelling to Innova customers.

@Krissa

See, this is the thing you guys don't seem to understand. Innova's rates are the intended rates (they are actually balanced, unlike what we got here). Innova is also another official server who bought the publishing rights and gets the updates directly from Korea. They made the l2wiki database, they named the updates (classic 1.0, 1.5, 2.0, 2.5) like Korea did, and every other classic server uses the same update progression and the same rates as them.

Innova doesn't have "boosted rates", we have nerfed rates and that's why everyone has been complaining. A lot of us have played other classic servers and none of them had these super low rates. This isn't how the game is supposed to be played. (spamming spider quest for adena? creating alt characters to farm at lvl 30 hunting zones because you can't make enough adena at 40+? o.O).

This isn't even about "the game is too hard", it's just that the rates are broken, right now it's not even profitable to play a spoiler because you're just wasting time, mobs lvl 30 give more adena than mobs lvl 40+ and 50+, mats don't drop nearly as often as they should, etc.

Also, we're not even playing a 1.5 classic patch like they announced, we're just playing a downgraded version of the Live Servers. All of this could've been fixed if we just had a separate launcher with a real 1.5 patch.

 

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26 minutes ago, Hark said:

@Krissa

See, this is the thing you guys don't seem to understand. Innova's rates are the intended rates (they are actually balanced, unlike what we got here).

What I don't understand is what makes you believe in that.

And when you are saying that they are "actually balanced", do you mean that they are actually balanced for the "looped macro" economy that Innova had?

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26 minutes ago, Krissa said:

What I don't understand is what makes you believe in that.

And when you are saying that they are "actually balanced", do you mean that they are actually balanced for the "looped macro" economy that Innova had?

@Krissa Did you not read my comment before replying? I answered both of those things already. You seem to not want to understand on purpose.

59 minutes ago, Hark said:

Innova is also another official server who bought the publishing rights and gets the updates directly from Korea. They made the l2wiki database, they named the updates (classic 1.0, 1.5, 2.0, 2.5) like Korea did, and every other classic server uses the same update progression and the same rates as them.

...

This isn't even about "the game is too hard", it's just that the rates are broken, right now it's not even profitable to play a spoiler because you're just wasting time, mobs lvl 30 give more adena than mobs lvl 40+ and 50+, mats don't drop nearly as often as they should, etc.

 

The problems we have here are not present in any of the other classic servers, be it official or not. The problems we have here were already solved in other servers, but here we still have them, because: 

 

1 hour ago, Hark said:

...

Also, we're not even playing a 1.5 classic patch like they announced, we're just playing a downgraded version of the Live Servers. All of this could've been fixed if we just had a separate launcher with a real 1.5 patch.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Hark said:

@Krissa Did you not read my comment before replying? I answered both of those things already. You seem to not want to understand on purpose.

Yes, I did, and no, you didn't. "They named the updates like Korea did" (so what?) and "high level spoilers are useless now" (isn't that what they were most of the time in the original L2 anyway?) are not valid answers.

1 hour ago, Hark said:

The problems we have here are not present in any of the other classic servers, be it official or not. The problems we have here were already solved in other servers, but here we still have them, because:

...NCsoft needs to make money on the "f2p" (read: p2w) model.

The problem with drops and spoils that you have is not a problem that NCsoft has. The problems that NCsoft has (like the one with L2 Store XP/SP runes not working on 60+ characters) NCsoft solves fast, with unscheduled emergency updates. They don't do it with drops and spoils because the current situation with drops and spoils is intended.

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13 minutes ago, Krissa said:

"They named the updates like Korea did" (so what?)

The update patches have names, set by Korea that are also used by all russian and eu servers. This official server announced we were going to be playing on patch 1.5 (based on russian and korean patch updates) but as you can see, this is not 1.5.

14 minutes ago, Krissa said:

and "high level spoilers are useless now" (isn't that what they were most of the time in the original L2 anyway?)

No. This just tells me you don't know what you're talking about. This is not original l2, this is classic, which is nothing like original l2 except for the map and gear restrictions. You would know that, if you had played any of the other classic servers.

16 minutes ago, Krissa said:

...NCsoft needs to make money on the "f2p" (read: p2w) model.

Yes, I understand that NCsoft is a company and they need to make money. They're doing it wrong, though. If they were smart, they would set nerfed rates for f2p players, and normal rates for VIP players. This is not the case, since VIP players have exactly the same rates as f2p (except for 50% increased drop rate on items, which isn't much anyways since items are 0.05% and VIP players would have 0.075%). VIP players still have low adena and spoil rates, that's why they're also complaining. I'm a VIP player.

20 minutes ago, Krissa said:

The problem with drops and spoils that you have is not a problem that NCsoft has.

Are you serious? I'm not the only one that has a problem with these rates, and I'm definitely not the only one talking about it on the forums. I'm also 100% sure that you know this, since I've seen you on multiple threads defending the rates. So no, it's not only me, and you know that.

22 minutes ago, Krissa said:

The problem with drops and spoils that you have is not a problem that NCsoft has. The problems that NCsoft has (like the one with L2 Store XP/SP runes not working on 60+ characters) NCsoft solves fast, with unscheduled emergency updates. They don't do it with drops and spoils because the current situation with drops and spoils is intended.

They fixed the rune problems because it's easier to fix, compared to changing the loot table of hundreds of mobs at once. Also, Juji said they were reviewing the drop tables and they were trying to fix them regarding adena and spoils at lvls 40+, so you're again incorrect, these rates are not intended.

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48 minutes ago, Hark said:

The update patches have names, set by Korea that are also used by all russian and eu servers.

So what? If Innova uses the same names as NC Korea, it does not mean by itself that Innova's "rates" are "balanced" by themselves, let alone for NC West game economy.

48 minutes ago, Hark said:

This official server announced we were going to be playing on patch 1.5 (based on russian and korean patch updates) but as you can see, this is not 1.5.

No, "the official server" announced nothing about being based on Russian updates.

48 minutes ago, Hark said:

No. This just tells me you don't know what you're talking about. This is not original l2, this is classic, which is nothing like original l2 except for the map and gear restrictions.

No. This just tells me that you don't know what you are talking about. Original or Classic, NCsoft does not make game balance on the notion that high-level spoilers need to be kept happy.

48 minutes ago, Hark said:

Yes, I understand that NCsoft is a company and they need to make money. They're doing it wrong, though. If they were smart, they would set nerfed rates for f2p players, and normal rates for VIP players.

I don't see why you think it is "smart", if by "normal rates" you mean l2wiki numbers for high-level mobs. I'd say that would be pretty dumb for NCsoft to do something like that profit-wise. NCsoft would be losing the money that, instead of L2 Store, would be spent on illegal RMT between top botters (which would have huge amounts of ingame resources) and the rest of the p2w crowd.

48 minutes ago, Hark said:

Are you serious? I'm not the only one that has a problem with these rates, and I'm definitely not the only one talking about it on the forums. I'm also 100% sure that you know this, since I've seen you on multiple threads defending the rates. So no, it's not only me, and you know that.

Sure, you are not the only one who is confusing your player problem with NCsoft's problem. And no, I'm not "defending the rates", in the same way as I am not "defending" rampant botting or close to non-existent customer support. I'm saying your whining won't help you, so you'd better either quit or adapt.

48 minutes ago, Hark said:

They fixed the rune problems because it's easier to fix, compared to changing the loot table of hundreds of mobs at once. Also, Juji said they were reviewing the drop tables and they were trying to fix them regarding adena and spoils at lvls 40+, so you're again incorrect, these rates are not intended.

The loot table is changed by updating the database context to the next stage of the game. They have already said that it should be easy and does not involve any "fixing". Juji is not reviewing anything (he has no authority to decide which rates are "intendend"), he is just playing for time till Korea says that the servers are ready for the new stage.

Edited by Krissa
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All of the things you're saying make no sense, and pretty much all of your arguments are "so what? NCsoft does it differently". That is the problem, and that is why there are a lot of players complaining. They said they were doing classic 1.5, and we didn't get that, they did something different and when people pointed it out, they started fixing things. So it was not intended.

51 minutes ago, Krissa said:

"the official server" announced nothing about being based on Russian updates.

Let me explain it once again: a couple years ago, at some point, Korea gave Innova an update and called it "classic 1.5". That is where the name comes from. NCwest announced a classic server and said it was going to be "classic 1.5".

See the connection? They said it was going to be the same game we all knew and had been playing for the last couple years, but when it launched a lot of people (those who have played other classic servers, and those who have played classic 1.5) realised that things weren't right. Quests were different, rates were lower than they should've been (for a classic 1.5), there's a bug with dyes (+5 max instead of the intended +12), the PK system was different at launch (and they changed it to how it actually is in classic 1.5), etc.

So if Korea and Russia had a "classic 1.5", and NCwest announces a new server and says it's going to be "classic 1.5" then yes, the game should be exactly the same, regardless of "game economy".

51 minutes ago, Krissa said:

Original or Classic, NCsoft does not make game balance on the notion that high-level spoilers need to be kept happy.

Hah, this is funny. In all other classic servers, spoilers are a vital part of the economy and are very useful at all lvls. So you're saying that even though spoilers are important in all other servers, you think there is no problem at all if spoilers are useless on NCwest's classic server? That's just stupid. Following that logic, just delete spoilers from the game. They're not supposed to "be happy" anyways, right?

51 minutes ago, Krissa said:

I don't see why you think it is "smart", if by "normal rates" you mean l2wiki numbers for high-level mobs. I'd say that would be pretty dumb for NCsoft to do something like that profit-wise. NCsoft would be losing the money that, instead of L2 Store, would be spent on illegal RMT between top botters (which would have huge amounts of ingame resources) and the rest of the p2w crowd.

The illegal RMT is already on this server, and is even more present here than on Innova's server. It will always be present. NCwest is never going to do anything to stop it.

Your solution is "keep rates nerfed, so real players will have to spend hundreds of hours killing the same mobs to try to craft a B grade weapon (which has a 40% chance to fail and you lose all of your mats), meanwhile there are hundreds of bots roaming around farming 24/7 with no effort at all from the people behind it"

Those bots are the ones farming mats and injecting them into the economy, because no one wants to play a spoiler cause they're awful right now, so the bots are making a lot of adena from selling mats, and they're selling the adena for real money.

The real solution would be to increase rates so players can actually use spoilers and craft things at a decent progression speed, and so they don't have to rely on buying mats or RMT adena from botters.

51 minutes ago, Krissa said:

Sure, you are not the only one who is confusing your player problem with NCsoft's problem. And no, I'm not "defending the rates", in the same way as I am not "defending" rampant botting or close to non-existent customer support. I'm saying your whining won't help you, so you'd better either quit or adapt.

I'm not confusing anything, I'm stating facts and you're talking nonsense.

You are defending rates, because you are saying they're "normal", when I've proven to you they are not normal for a classic 1.5 server, which is what we were supposed to play. Also, if you're saying these rates are fine, you are also helping botters, because right now they are the only ones that are able to farm materials, sell them for adena, and then sell the adena for real money. If you increase rates, people will make spoilers, spoilers start selling mats, people stop buying mats from botters, and botters can't sell as much adena as they are selling right now.

You're also telling me to either "adapt" to buying mats from botters or to quit the game. Nice thinking right there.

51 minutes ago, Krissa said:

The loot table is changed by upgrading the database context to the next stage of the game.

What? This sentence doesn't make sense.

51 minutes ago, Krissa said:

The loot table is changed by upgrading the database context to the next stage of the game. They have already said that it should be easy and does not involve any "fixing". 

They never said it was easy, they've said exactly the opposite.

Okay, maybe they didn't use the word "fixing", but they said they (and the korean developers) have evaluated our feedback and the rates and they have decided that rates need to be readjusted, which is pretty much the same thing as "fixed".

51 minutes ago, Krissa said:

Juji is not reviewing anything (he has no authority to decide which rates are "intendend"), he is just playing for time till Korea says that the servers are ready for the new stage.

How do you know NCwest's workplace environment? You don't know what you're talking about. At most you can assume these things. I could also assume, knowing from his forum profile that Juji is a game producer, he does have the authority to ask the Korean developers for information about the game his company has launched. Then the korean developer team will decide what they want to do, and none of us have any say on that anyways, so this point is not relevant to this discussion.

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Hark has much the better of this discussion, except for one point.  None of us know for sure, but I believe these rates were intended to compensate for the unfortunate decision that the game is F2P/P2W.  I doubt very much that @Juji or @Himeknew the rates were nerfed as badly as they were, but I think the developers intended for low rates to force people to buy from the L2Store so NCWest could make money with the F2P business model.  The huge outcry here forced their hand and they "fixed" the rates at the lower level.  They still aren't 1x of 1.5, but they are good enough, given the weapons and armor, etc., that are given away at those levels.  They did not, however, "fix" the upper levels enough to make the game playable, which launched another round of protests and another "fix" which will be coming, likely before the free teleports end on 11/14.  They will not wait until the next full update to do so.  On the other hand, I don't have much confidence they will adequately fix the problem and prevent yet another round of protests and adjustments.

I've said before and I'll say again, the solution is simple.  Make the rates for 40+ mobs 1x of 1.5 and be done with it.

Oh, there is one other possibility.  Has anyone looked into the possibility that the rates here at launch were the same as on the highly nerfed live servers?  That could well have been an accident. 

Edited by Lawman
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Thank you :)

2 hours ago, Lawman said:

... I believe these rates were intended to compensate for the unfortunate decision that the game is F2P/P2W.

I also believe this was a possibility, in which case I think they did it wrong. In my opinion, it would've been far more profitable to give f2p players 1x rates, and VIP players x2 or x3 rates. Also, they could've only allowed 1box per client, and VIP players get 2 boxes. That's how you get a lot of money from players, without even having to implement a store. This would also fix the queue problems.

2 hours ago, Lawman said:

Oh, there is one other possibility.  Has anyone looked into the possibility that the rates here at launch were the same as on the highly nerfed live servers?  That could well have been an accident. 

I've been saying this too. I'm 90% sure they just took the live server files, and modified them to look like a 1.5 patch (that's where we got the "it will be classic 1.5 with quality of life improvements"). There's actually a lot of proof for this:

  • The super low rates (like on chronos on naia)
  • The PK system we had before launch was exactly like it is now on chronos and naia (they changed it to be like classic 1.5 after the launch)
  • We have a max of +5 on dyes instead of +12 (they haven't fixed this yet but acknowledged it)
  • We have a lot of quests that don't exist in 1.5 (the soulshot quest is not like that in 1.5)
  • Mobs and bosses seem to be buffed compared to what it should be like in 1.5 and they have new skills (like on chronos and naia)
  • At some point there was a bug where people were creating Ertheia characters on classic (?!?!?!?!?!) and they fixed it.
  • We're using the same launcher as the live servers, we don't have separate files for classic.
  • When they disabled macro loops on classic servers, they also disabled it on live servers (lol)

So yeah, either the nerfed rates were on purpose and they're readjusting them because people are complaining, or it was a bug because of sharing the files with the live servers and they're readjusting them because they didn't know rates were that low.

Most of the problems we have would be fixed if we were actually playing a genuine classic 1.5 patch :P

Edited by Hark
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21 hours ago, Lurswena said:

This topic is not about general drop/spoil rate problems. This is to show where is not spoil rewarded as it suppose to be.

So far I am at 28lvl. Spoiling Partisan Hideway.

Have noticed that my spoiled monster: Ol Mahum Raider do not give correct spoil as it showed here: https://l2wiki.com/classic/Ol_Mahum_Raider

Animal Bones drops per spoil 1-3p: should be 1-5

Iron Ore always only 1:  should be 1-3

 

Please add your monitoring from spoil where is not correct spoil items/amounts.

 

https://l2.dropspoil.com/npc/20208/ol-mahum-raider.html

Spoil
Animal BoneAnimal Bone (1-3) - 1/2
Iron OreIron Ore - 1/1
Leather Boot LiningLeather Boot Lining - 1/9


Our DB is a mix.

 

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51 minutes ago, Johnas said:

Leather Boot Lining do not spoil and even don't drops. So its indeed mixed with wiki+something. Spoiler life indeed is harsh right now. To make a Plate armor C grade and Yaksa I need 5000+ Animal bone and its just one type of material. For only one lill dwarf :/ I'm not saying I should get it all in 1 day but when I run in towns and check market, Im not sure if I can buy those bones in such amounts :D now imagine 1000+ players will need all same amounts.. and our spoil rates/drops.

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