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12 hours ago, Hark said:

All of the things you're saying make no sense, and pretty much all of your arguments are "so what? NCsoft does it differently". That is the problem, and that is why there are a lot of players complaining.

You must be new here. It's the official NC West L2 forum, people are always complaining here.

And if the things someone says make no sense for you, maybe you just don't understand the topic. Have you considered such a possibility?

And no, I am not saying "so what? NCsoft does it differently". I am saying "Innova did it differently. So what?". Feel the difference: it's NCsoft's game.

12 hours ago, Hark said:

They said they were doing classic 1.5, and we didn't get that, they did something different and when people pointed it out, they started fixing things. So it was not intended.

That's not what happened, actually. They said that they were doing "classic 1.5 with QoL improvements". Some of the stuff in the preliminary announces was different from the resulting patch notes, but that doesn't mean that they "fixed" anything more than NC West's own knowledge of what Korea delivered to them.

12 hours ago, Hark said:

Let me explain it once again: a couple years ago, at some point, Korea gave Innova an update and called it "classic 1.5". That is where the name comes from. NCwest announced a classic server and said it was going to be "classic 1.5".

See the connection? They said it was going to be the same game we all knew and had been playing for the last couple years, but when it launched a lot of people (those who have played other classic servers, and those who have played classic 1.5) realised that things weren't right. Quests were different, rates were lower than they should've been (for a classic 1.5), there's a bug with dyes (+5 max instead of the intended +12), the PK system was different at launch (and they changed it to how it actually is in classic 1.5), etc.

So if Korea and Russia had a "classic 1.5", and NCwest announces a new server and says it's going to be "classic 1.5" then yes, the game should be exactly the same, regardless of "game economy".

So, first, do I understand you correctly that "you all" are not allowed to play on NC West servers?

Second, why do you think that, for NCsoft, the "classic 1.5" is the game that was delivered to Innova in Russia, and not the game that was delivered to the rest of the world?

Third, why do you think that the "classic 1.5" has the same drop tables if the server is already mature or just starting?

And why do you think that "the PK system was different at launch"? Have you actually tested it? Or did you believe to what Juli told you? Do you always believe what Juji is telling you about the game?

12 hours ago, Hark said:

Hah, this is funny. In all other classic servers, spoilers are a vital part of the economy and are very useful at all lvls. So you're saying that even though spoilers are important in all other servers, you think there is no problem at all if spoilers are useless on NCwest's classic server? That's just stupid. Following that logic, just delete spoilers from the game. They're not supposed to "be happy" anyways, right?

That's your main problem. You don't understand what's going on, being that NCsoft decisions or discussions on the forums. That's why a lot of things makes no sense to you.

I personally have a spoiler, I just have no plans to rush her into 40+ before it becomes useful.

12 hours ago, Hark said:

The illegal RMT is already on this server, and is even more present here than on Innova's server. It will always be present. NCwest is never going to do anything to stop it.

Your solution is "keep rates nerfed, so real players will have to spend hundreds of hours killing the same mobs to try to craft a B grade weapon (which has a 40% chance to fail and you lose all of your mats), meanwhile there are hundreds of bots roaming around farming 24/7 with no effort at all from the people behind it"

Those bots are the ones farming mats and injecting them into the economy, because no one wants to play a spoiler cause they're awful right now, so the bots are making a lot of adena from selling mats, and they're selling the adena for real money.

The real solution would be to increase rates so players can actually use spoilers and craft things at a decent progression speed, and so they don't have to rely on buying mats or RMT adena from botters.

It wouldn't, because it is based on wishful thinking, not on understanding of facts. In reality. your "solution" would actually be "buy adena and top items from top farmers".

Or maybe you have a personal commercial interest in such a "solution".

12 hours ago, Hark said:

I'm not confusing anything, I'm stating facts and you're talking nonsense.

You are defending rates, because you are saying they're "normal", when I've proven to you they are not normal for a classic 1.5 server, which is what we were supposed to play. Also, if you're saying these rates are fine, you are also helping botters, because right now they are the only ones that are able to farm materials, sell them for adena, and then sell the adena for real money. If you increase rates, people will make spoilers, spoilers start selling mats, people stop buying mats from botters, and botters can't sell as much adena as they are selling right now.

You're also telling me to either "adapt" to buying mats from botters or to quit the game. Nice thinking right there.

You are not stating facts. You are "stating" your confusion about the facts and refusing to listen.

I am not "defending" the "rates" and I am not saying they are "normal". I am saying they are intended. NC Korea, based on their experience, decided that this kind of drop table progression will be the best for their bottom line based on their knowledge of the game and on their experience in handling the game in other regions. I am telling you to adapt to this fact and to not expect that to change.

Or just go play on the servers where you are allowed to play, especially if you like them more.

Or you don't like them? What brought you here?

12 hours ago, Hark said:

What? This sentence doesn't make sense.

Sorry, "content", not "context".

If they wanted to set their drop tables to match the current drop tables of another region, it would take them about 2 hours during the regular maintenance. It's not like Juji needs to manually change the drop rates of each and every mob, it's just mass-updating the database content with the data already existing in another place.

They are not doing it. Why? Think about it.

12 hours ago, Hark said:

Okay, maybe they didn't use the word "fixing", but they said they (and the korean developers) have evaluated our feedback and the rates and they have decided that rates need to be readjusted, which is pretty much the same thing as "fixed".

Not if it's a planned progression (even if it happens earlier than expected).

12 hours ago, Hark said:

How do you know NCwest's workplace environment? You don't know what you're talking about.

I see it in their actions, and I know what I am talking about. I've been in the software industry for about 30 years and I've also been a long term NC West customer. They don't seem to have changed for better.

12 hours ago, Hark said:

I could also assume, knowing from his forum profile that Juji is a game producer, he does have the authority to ask the Korean developers for information about the game his company has launched. Then the korean developer team will decide what they want to do, and none of us have any say on that anyways, so this point is not relevant to this discussion.

Are you saying that the point about what the developers will do with the game is not relevant to the discussion?

Really?

When what are you trying to discuss?

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We know spoils (and rates) on l2wiki are not exact, but it the closest tool we have.  The spoils (mob loot tables) are greatly different than the Prima Guide which was the official "Classic" loot tables.  There is nothing more "classic" than Prelude.  I have a 43 BH and 4 level 20 dwarves.  I only had enough animal bone fragments to make 1/3 of the CBP to make D grade weapon.  I mained a BH in prelude-c2 (1.5 would fit in this window???) and NEVER struggled for animal bone (fragments).  The spoils that have always been 30-70% are now 10-20% and the quanities are rarely ever in excess of 1 when many mobs were 1-3 or 1-5.  

 

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13 hours ago, Lurswen said:

Leather Boot Lining do not spoil and even don't drops. So its indeed mixed with wiki+something. Spoiler life indeed is harsh right now. To make a Plate armor C grade and Yaksa I need 5000+ Animal bone and its just one type of material. For only one lill dwarf :/ I'm not saying I should get it all in 1 day but when I run in towns and check market, Im not sure if I can buy those bones in such amounts :D now imagine 1000+ players will need all same amounts.. and our spoil rates/drops.

The best you can use, it's a translated version of this http://lineage2classic.power.plaync.com/wiki/올+마훔+돌격병, they don't give the %. Just the Drop Table.

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The problem that seems some don't understand is that Innova doesn't have 'custom' rates, it's the way the come from the developer. I've seen already that EU is closer if not the same as Korea when it comes to drops... than NA is right now. Probably because of a more closer patch or the game was intended like that in NA. For whatever reasons, besides the point here, the rates are clearly lower here and not only that but imbalanced between 1-40 and 40+. It's clear that it has been tampered with them. Now the problem as I said before is not really the lower rates, which a lot of players would be fine with, but the imbalance. Someone mentioned here that they have to farm 5k animal bones. Well, good luck doing that as a spoiler in this actual version of the game. The chance is low enough and the quantity same as well. You have a better chance to collect that with a strong DD class just because of a better killing speed, no matter that drop rate is lower than spoil in general. Dedicated spoilers feel cheated. If you want to make good adena you watch the bots and observer what they are doing. It seems they are not eager at all to create dwarfs and farm with them, so that is a sign that other classes farm better.

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