PSA on Automated Macros and PvP

[BurnCycle]

6 minutes ago, AiZeN said:

...

Oh god you're still at it let me spell it out for you ok? since I don't think your puny brain can process how you're always the last one standing on sieges first off Tanks has better defense stats now with the help of focus shield/raise shield that you can spam permanently with proper setups not to mention most tanks nowadays plays with knight harmony lvl 2 which makes them even more tankier going for at least 60k pdef/40k mdef no DD will be dumb enough to target that when they can target iss/dds or even healers who has way lower stats but keep insisting that you're the last man standing cause people are scripting not because unlike your dumb dds in Max the other clans doesn't target enemy tanks lmao god I told you stop writing you're just freaking humiliating yourself with your stupid remarks..........

... 

When i said that i was being ironic!

After the tanks changes, if you do AoE hate on a dimensional siege you immediately go down. Doesn't matter your gear or you game play style. It's how the class is.

But after the last siege, that doesn't happen anymore, even with 2x more ppl around... i'll give you a guess why that happens.

Yes i got it, i have a different opinion of you, you don't see me calling you names right? You guys lost all dimensional sieges so far (with exception of one a few months back, lasted 2 weeks only tho) and now that you won it's cause you got organized... Anyways, i won't be replying to you anymore cause there's not really much point in doing so.

 

Back to the topic's point, on Freya it seems that if you report someone for botting with video proof (auto rez and stuff like that) it isn't a reason to ban people anymore, not even a temporary ban. I guess NCSoft really want's those script wars back. Sad times.

 

 

[AiZeN]

3 hours ago, BurnCycle said:

When i said that i was being ironic!

After the tanks changes, if you do AoE hate on a dimensional siege you immediately go down. Doesn't matter your gear or you game play style. It's how the class is.

But after the last siege, that doesn't happen anymore, even with 2x more ppl around... i'll give you a guess why that happens.

Yes i got it, i have a different opinion of you, you don't see me calling you names right? You guys lost all dimensional sieges so far (with exception of one a few months back, lasted 2 weeks only tho) and now that you won it's cause you got organized... Anyways, i won't be replying to you anymore cause there's not really much point in doing so.

 

Back to the topic's point, on Freya it seems that if you report someone for botting with video proof (auto rez and stuff like that) it isn't a reason to ban people anymore, not even a temporary ban. I guess NCSoft really want's those script wars back. Sad times.

 

 

So what do you call the massacre we did to you and Nova when Max and Nova tried to stop us from casting giran then defend giran it was only MS vs Nova and Max lmao... the only reason you were "winning" is because of the fact that the Top 1 and 2 clans back then were holding hands against one clan which is MS and the gear difference we had back then was night and day considering MS besides from having no help from anyone had 0 dragon weapons now not only we have 2 dragon weapons in our arsenal we also have another clan with multiple dragon weapons fighting Max and Nova so that evens the field and that when who has the better leadership wins lol. 

Back at topic as well I seriously find it funny that Max and Nova are crying about scripts if there's actually anyone who uses scripts in PvP why you guys don't use one oh and don't give me bs excuse that you don't want to use one even you're "100% sure" that your enemy is using because you don't wanna get the script wars back cause those are loads of BS it didn't stop you back then from scripting proof of that Max has a clan leader who got ban for scripts not once not twice not three times but four times and meanwhile Nova well Nova doesn't even need any further introductions about scripts since they co-founded it lol 

I can rest assure you that we don't need to cheat to come up on top specially against a horrible clan like Max and a shell of a clan that is Nova lmao 
 

[Fooz]

On 2/7/2018 at 7:55 PM, Conguero said:

We’ve recently seen confusion in the community regarding what is considered fair play in PvP, and how a player using the Automated Macros system while AFK can potentially avoid incurring PKs or losing valuable items. For anyone who has been in this scenario and unclear about NCSOFT policies, here’s where we stand.

Using Hunting Macros While AFK (Don’t!)

First and foremost, while the Automated Macros system in Lineage 2 was designed to be robust enough that players can streamline certain elements of gameplay, it’s not built to be a bot tool. In fact, target macros are intentionally kept very simple to prevent any complex automated gameplay. Regardless of how creative and comprehensive your macros are, it’s expected that you’re using them while actively playing or observing your character at all times. You’re responsible for all of the actions of your character and there is no separate policy to protect you from any potential consequences you may face while AFK.

Putting the Penalty in the PK

Lineage 2 is considered an open PvP game in which PKs are intended to deter players from engaging in combat with each other without accepting the associated risks. Ultimately PKs can result in the loss of equipped items regardless of their value or usefulness—this includes items that ordinarily can’t be dropped. There’s a fair amount of PvP persistence required while playing the game normally to reach this point. If you’re using macros while AFK, however, you should know that your character is not immune from PKs either. As target macros don’t distinguish between friend and foe, your AFK farming routine can potentially be disrupted to pull your character into a PvP state and incur PKs.

Be warned! If you lose an exceptionally rare and powerful piece of equipment to another player while you’re AFK, Customer Support will be unable to restore it for you. Ultimately the situation of losing items to PK is easily avoided, and hopefully this info helps you stay safe out there!

Sincerely,

The Lineage II Team

Just curious @Conguero do you or your staff often favor certain clans or players and go back on these stated words for the better of the community or for the better of your pockets? Just today your support staff has stripped items from a legitimate case of a player going red (PK status) losing a few items (rightly so) then you proceeded to take said items from the player that killed the red (PK) and return them to the player who was PK status.  Curious how you will try to throw a band-aid on this one. If you would like further "evidence", it can be provided.

[KKKm]

@fooz plz don’t cry . And don’t use the wold xxx they will ban your post and you will cry even more .

[Fooz]

30 minutes ago, KKKm said:

@fooz plz don’t cry . And don’t use the wold xxx they will ban your post and you will cry even more .

Would love to see that happen, as nothing in my posts break any rules  

[Conguero]

9 hours ago, Fooz said:

Just curious @Conguero do you or your staff often favor certain clans or players and go back on these stated words for the better of the community or for the better of your pockets? Just today your support staff has stripped items from a legitimate case of a player going red (PK status) losing a few items (rightly so) then you proceeded to take said items from the player that killed the red (PK) and return them to the player who was PK status.  Curious how you will try to throw a band-aid on this one. If you would like further "evidence", it can be provided.

Our Support staff has looked into this issue further and is contacting the player directly involved in the item transfers. If the situation transpired as you described then the player who obtained items via PvP with another player is entitled to keep them. If they were removed or returned by us it's likely in error.

[Fooz]

10 minutes ago, Conguero said:

Our Support staff has looked into this issue further and is contacting the player directly involved in the item transfers. If the situation transpired as you described then the player who obtained items via PvP with another player is entitled to keep them. If they were removed or returned by us it's likely in error.

The issue is the items were returned to the character that dropped them after going red, why is this? Many people are wondering why because you clearly stated above a much different stance on the issue.

[Truffle]

If they didn't restore it they'd be hypocrites, as its been the policy for forever. Ask KingScoobz/P0cketRocket about it cry baby foozie. Many players have gotten their items back in the last few years.

[Fooz]

2 minutes ago, Truffle said:

If they didn't restore it they'd be hypocrites, as its been the policy for forever. Ask KingScoobz/P0cketRocket about it cry baby foozie. Many players have gotten their items back in the last few years.

We’ve recently seen confusion in the community regarding what is considered fair play in PvP, and how a player using the Automated Macros system while AFK can potentially avoid incurring PKs or losing valuable items. For anyone who has been in this scenario and unclear about NCSOFT policies, here’s where we stand.

Using Hunting Macros While AFK (Don’t!)

First and foremost, while the Automated Macros system in Lineage 2 was designed to be robust enough that players can streamline certain elements of gameplay, it’s not built to be a bot tool. In fact, target macros are intentionally kept very simple to prevent any complex automated gameplay. Regardless of how creative and comprehensive your macros are, it’s expected that you’re using them while actively playing or observing your character at all times. You’re responsible for all of the actions of your character and there is no separate policy to protect you from any potential consequences you may face while AFK.

Putting the Penalty in the PK

Lineage 2 is considered an open PvP game in which PKs are intended to deter players from engaging in combat with each other without accepting the associated risks. Ultimately PKs can result in the loss of equipped items regardless of their value or usefulness—this includes items that ordinarily can’t be dropped. There’s a fair amount of PvP persistence required while playing the game normally to reach this point. If you’re using macros while AFK, however, you should know that your character is not immune from PKs either. As target macros don’t distinguish between friend and foe, your AFK farming routine can potentially be disrupted to pull your character into a PvP state and incur PKs.

Be warned! If you lose an exceptionally rare and powerful piece of equipment to another player while you’re AFK, Customer Support will be unable to restore it for you. Ultimately the situation of losing items to PK is easily avoided, and hopefully this info helps you stay safe out there!

Sincerely,

The Lineage II Team 

 

Tell me where it says that in here?

Also last time I checked you aren't an NC employee and your name isn't Conguero bud. Thanks for your concern

[Truffle]

Are we here to pretend Conguero knows all? All it will take is looking through some of these tickets himself to see that it isn't their policy clearly as its happened many times.. Just like the people restoring weapons after they blow them up 2..3 and 4 times  It's to keep players paying, simple as that. You're so bent out of shape over nothing its hilarious. Kids will be kids.. Taking it from your buddy no doubt stopped some RMT so win-win for Ncsoft.  

[Fooz]

1 minute ago, Truffle said:

Are we here to pretend Conguero knows all? All it will take is looking through some of these tickets himself to see that it isn't their policy clearly as its happened many times..

why are you still here? policies are made to set guidelines bud, not to be broken LOL

[AiZeN]

Oh god why Renovatio's members keeps on crying for a simple lindvior earring? I know why cause Renovatio's members need the adena so they can feed it to their members Renovatio hasn't farmed anything this past few months what a dead clan such desperation coming from their members "please conquero give me back the lindvior" cause my clan is so incompetent we don't farm anything lmao. 

Though I'm not surprise Fooz is the one crying about items here for someone who is an infamous scammer this guy is just full of crap lmao  

[Truffle]

Haha the best part is an RMTer got it.  His dinner got taken away!  

[Truffle]

5 minutes ago, Fooz said:

why are you still here? policies are made to set guidelines bud, not to be broken LOL

Trust me keeping players playing trumps the policies.. idiot.  

[Fooz]

2 minutes ago, Truffle said:

Trust me keeping players playing trumps the policies.. idiot.  

so basically we don't need to follow rules truffle?, can you agree on this @conguero your HR rep  (Truffle) told me this.

[AiZeN]

lmao when that guy RMTer from Nova saw that lindvior dropped his eyes lit up and he's like damn I finally get to eat some decent meal and pay for my rent.... 

[Conguero]

15 hours ago, Fooz said:

so basically we don't need to follow rules truffle?, can you agree on this @conguero your HR rep  (Truffle) told me this.

I can agree that everyone needs to exercise a little more chill in this thread. The info conveyed in my original post still stands. If any CS actions taken on cases like these appear to contradict the policies I conveyed in my post, absolutely submitting an in-game ticket is an appropriate way to have the situation reviewed and seek clarification.

[Sniffo]

22 hours ago, Fooz said:

why are you still here? policies are made to set guidelines bud, not to be broken LOL

Since we're on the topic of returning things to their owner, shouldn't you give your account back to Jestra? Or is that portion of L2 supports policy not favoring you?

[Truffle]

22 hours ago, Conguero said:

I can agree that everyone needs to exercise a little more chill in this thread. The info conveyed in my original post still stands. If any CS actions taken on cases like these appear to contradict the policies I conveyed in my post, absolutely submitting an in-game ticket is an appropriate way to have the situation reviewed and seek clarification.

While you're at it check @Fooz account since it was RMT'd ~1.5 years ago from a guy in Europe.. You know since he came here to cry like the moron he is LOL.

[SpeedStick]

8 minutes ago, Truffle said:

While you're at it check @Fooz account since it was RMT'd ~1.5 years ago from a guy in Europe.. You know since he came here to cry like the moron he is LOL.

If you check your account its been banned hammered many times yet GMs keep giving it back to you.  Why are you always so mad when some Fooz guy speaks.  Its a bit showing.

[ShakaDeVirgem]

Hello,

     Lets be pragmatic... NCSoft implemented the macro system cause game automation is a trend in games with repetitive actions, so it is just a requirement to stay up to date. Also, this kind of feature has some advantages:

• Popularity - players are more inclined to join a game with better automation.
• Bot Control - players are more inclined to avoid the usage of third party automation programs, a common problem/disease of RPG/MMORPG games. 
• Health -  protects players from repetitive strain injury and protects the company from being processed. Some companies are being processed by players that proved their health was injured by the game... including NCSoft, it explains why we are warnned today "You have been playing for an extended period of time. Please consider taking a break", take a look at https://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/08/31/lineage_ii_eula_defeat/.

      Also, the NCSoft statement in this post is subjective and may not be aligned with USA laws. The macro system is a legal and official feature of this software with clearly allowed usage and many items are acquired with real money spent with game credits (NCoin) , thus the USA Consumer Protection may consider that lost paid items are lost products that should be recovered or reimbursed.

     Finally, my personal opinion is, instead of presenting a subjective rule, you should implement a Safe Target Command to improve the user experience. That would end with all this discussion.

[Dargor]

32 minutes ago, ShakaDeVirgem said:

     Finally, my personal opinion is, instead of presenting a subjective rule, you should implement a Safe Target Command to improve the user experience. That would end with all this discussion.

So what's to stop people from just sitting in some spot grinding forever? Why should I have to pk someone in order to claim a spot occupied by a macro? How is that any different than the times 3rd party bots were all over the place? It seems to me they are intentionally keeping the macro functions limited and for good reason too.

[Maark]

@Dargor @Conguero @Hime 

 

 "Why should I have to pk someone in order to claim a spot occupied by a macro? " as a common answer to this question is this is a PVP game.. so one would think PKing the player would be the method of claiming the spot.

although I do feel the community manager are not aware of the other aspects of the game. PVP is a big part of the game but not the only aspect... PVP is the game; if so then this "game" should not be considered as an MMORPG as no other criteria are satisfied. 

PVP is player driven act anyhow. so I a player should initiate the act. and not forced into an altercation "PVP"...

current mechanics is forcing a player into PVP through lazy game mechanics, who otherwise is enjoying other aspects of the game.

so my question to you. is it ok to initiate an altercation with you by placing my self into a chaotic state, then timing the game mechanics to allow the system to think you the target is the aggressor resulting in my death at the moment the game mechanics change to a non-chaotic state. through game mechanics resulting in you going red. then say I repeat this process some 15+ times. increasing the chance of your items dropping. would this abuse of lazy game mechanics be acceptable to you the target?

keep in mind macros is and has been a part of the game long before the auto macro function was enabled.

a possible solution would be to have the player who is in a chaotic state remain in a pvp state after returning to a non-chaotic state even after death for a few seconds to avoied undesirable effects.

another solution desable auto macro.

[Dargor]

You do realize PvP stands for Player versus Player, right? Not player versus 3rd party program nor player versus macro. An active player might have decided to flag back. And as Conguero said and I'm paraphrasing if you leave your toon unattended it's your own responsibility for whatever happens to it. By all means though, lets remove from the game anything that doesn't 100% suit each and everyone's needs.

[Maark]

I'm not questioning the use of macro or 3rd party. my argument is the underline abuse of game mechanics. that is clearly being overlooked by both player and developer.

@Dargor