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PSA on Automated Macros and PvP

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OneDayDelete    19

No need to be upset about the abuse of in game mechanics @Maark, enough people are being affected by this abuse that they will start to quit the game. Why should game developers care about this??? 

MONEY!

This is eventually going to start hitting NCSoft in the pocketbook sooner or later because people will get tired of the menace that is SnowMaiden and Kneska. Without gear people can't XP or even do simple things like instances where they can't be affected. This will cause them to quit which means less money spent on the L2 Store.

So by all means @Conguero, stick by your "policy." I get it it, I'm a policy type of guy myself. Doesn't hurt my feelings whatsoever. Mark my words though, not addressing this situation in one form or another will cost NCSoft enough money at some point that it will have to be addressed some how. Just giving you the heads up before it's too late.

Deuces!

Edited by OneDayDelete

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Yidao    149

Exactly, this is all about money. As you can tell from the wording and formatting of Conguero's announcement on the first page of this thread, this was not a spontaneous decision made after a bad day at the office, but a well thought-through measure intended to reduce operating costs. On the one hand there are the man-hours needed by the Customer Service Team to deal with the complaints from new players who lost items to other players who are better familiar with the game mechanics - please note, most of the people who complain about this issue are "one post wonders" - and on the other hand there is the possibly reduced revenue from players who quit the game in despair. Considering that macro botters use macros as a cheap way to level up (as opposed to buying Fishing items from the L2Store), the loss is probably tolerable.

If this makes you unhappy, I can only recommend to play other games. I have heard that for example the GMs at Blizzard (World of Warcraft, Overwatch ...) take a rather active role in enforcing a healthy gaming environment. Apart from that there are always board games. With chess, for example, you won't get into temptation to automate gameplay, and since it is usually played in public places, your opponent also won't dare to steal one of your pawns from the board. A lot of the unsanitary behavior that you can observe on Hellbound etc. is brought about by the anonymity the internet provides. So the best solution is to avoid the internet :)

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12 hours ago, Yidao said:

Considering that macro botters use macros as a cheap way to level up (as opposed to buying Fishing items from the L2Store), the loss is probably tolerable.

 

Lvl up with macro?Lol thats too funny you get 0 xp with macros.Ppl use macro to do quests that ask you to kill 100k mobs and factions they dont to lvl up with macros thats impossible.If you want to lvl up  what you do is when server have xp bonus you buy some pass and go all bosses x2 or buy xp 200 .I have spent alot nc to buy baits and lvl up to 103.Now for 104 i will lvl up with macro?LOL LOL come on.

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Methodical    12
13 hours ago, Yidao said:

Exactly, this is all about money. As you can tell from the wording and formatting of Conguero's announcement on the first page of this thread, this was not a spontaneous decision made after a bad day at the office, but a well thought-through measure intended to reduce operating costs. On the one hand there are the man-hours needed by the Customer Service Team to deal with the complaints from new players who lost items to other players who are better familiar with the game mechanics - please note, most of the people who complain about this issue are "one post wonders" - and on the other hand there is the possibly reduced revenue from players who quit the game in despair. Considering that macro botters use macros as a cheap way to level up (as opposed to buying Fishing items from the L2Store), the loss is probably tolerable.

If this makes you unhappy, I can only recommend to play other games. I have heard that for example the GMs at Blizzard (World of Warcraft, Overwatch ...) take a rather active role in enforcing a healthy gaming environment. Apart from that there are always board games. With chess, for example, you won't get into temptation to automate gameplay, and since it is usually played in public places, your opponent also won't dare to steal one of your pawns from the board. A lot of the unsanitary behavior that you can observe on Hellbound etc. is brought about by the anonymity the internet provides. So the best solution is to avoid the internet :)

yep ppl have to ask them selves from the 1 million 1000 things that this planet offers why exactly the internet? why we picked the internet ?? ;))

 

@Toooldforthisu dont need gear to fish ;) just buy the 104-105 baits requ and ull be set, sry for troll

cheers

 

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Yidao    149
15 hours ago, Toooldforthis said:

Lvl up with macro?Lol thats too funny you get 0 xp with macros.Ppl use macro to do quests that ask you to kill 100k mobs and factions they dont to lvl up with macros thats impossible.If you want to lvl up  what you do is when server have xp bonus you buy some pass and go all bosses x2 or buy xp 200 .I have spent alot nc to buy baits and lvl up to 103.Now for 104 i will lvl up with macro?LOL LOL come on.

I myself play Lineage 2 because I like hitting things over the head, using looped macros only for Sonata buffing, so I wouldn't know. But possibly you are underestimating the personnel cost as in man-hours required to deal with tickets in comparison with the few thousand dollars that players spend on Instance Passes or Exp Runes per month.

However that may be, the first version of Congero's announcement was made by Lineage M Producer Lee Seong-gu during a press conference on May 16, 2017:
http://www.inven.co.kr/webzine/news/?news=177830 (Korean)
http://boards.rochand.com/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=2094&start=40#p37689 (English)

I have no idea whether Hime simply translated that and adapted it to the situation at NCWest, or whether our Producer Nam Taek-rim sent an explicit directive to Neutron. In either case, the policy as lined out by Conguero is coming right from the headquarter. Keep in mind, the current staff consists of the survivors of the 2011/2012 purges; they are not stupid. You can be sure that they have looked at the numbers and come to the conclusion that macro-botters are economic non-factors in the greater scheme of things :)

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OneDayDelete    19
13 hours ago, Yidao said:

I have no idea whether Hime simply translated that and adapted it to the situation at NCWest, or whether our Producer Nam Taek-rim sent an explicit directive to Neutron. In either case, the policy as lined out by Conguero is coming right from the headquarter. Keep in mind, the current staff consists of the survivors of the 2011/2012 purges; they are not stupid. You can be sure that they have looked at the numbers and come to the conclusion that macro-botters are economic non-factors in the greater scheme of things :)

Oh I have no doubts they've looked at the numbers. And again, policy is policy. I'm not arguing that. However, last I checked, from a business stance any money coming in no matter how big or small is welcomed. It's just bad from a business perspective to say "hey I could make $100 but whatever, I'll take $80."

Investing in extra staff and time to deal with support tickets is a ridiculous solution from a business stand point as well. However, a patch on killing pets to go red with no PK penalty is a simple fix. Sure someone could still kill a different toon to go red but at least there would be a PK penalty and if they were to get killed they would be the one dropping the gear. As of now there is no consequence to the nuisance player and because of this, certain people will reduce their playing time. Reduced playing time brings reduced income, again, no matter how big or small it is.

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Znipo    42
On 2/27/2018 at 8:29 PM, Toooldforthis said:

Lvl up with macro?Lol thats too funny you get 0 xp with macros.Ppl use macro to do quests that ask you to kill 100k mobs and factions they dont to lvl up with macros thats impossible.If you want to lvl up  what you do is when server have xp bonus you buy some pass and go all bosses x2 or buy xp 200 .I have spent alot nc to buy baits and lvl up to 103.Now for 104 i will lvl up with macro?LOL LOL come on.

 

Eh? its clear you've never farmed in a good group (or can grind solo fast enough), exp from instances is quick and easy exp but limited to 2x/day, macro you can leave on 24/7 if you wanted.

A group in AF/GoS/GClower will grab alot of exp compared to just instances.

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xtinger    1

The person who always kill and attempt to drop your item is this “Spartoulis” the owner of “cantera1989” who always roam in Hellbound and drag your char to the remote area where he can make your char pked till your items drop. I just PKed his char cantera1989 and his making racus for not killing me back depite him using rapsody. Ahahaha!

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On 3/1/2018 at 2:11 PM, Znipo said:

 

Eh? its clear you've never farmed in a good group (or can grind solo fast enough), exp from instances is quick and easy exp but limited to 2x/day, macro you can leave on 24/7 if you wanted.

A group in AF/GoS/GClower will grab alot of exp compared to just instances.

I Can kill fast enough and i bought rune xp 200% and af altar etc pass several times  and only with that worth you to use macro many hours.Now i wont buy of course nothing of those and i wont risk my gear for maybe 3% xp in a month at 103.I dont care i will go 104 sooner or later no more money.I see scumbags are everywhere .Macro is  a uselless tool now.Iam already tired to use it these days while i watch every minute because iam afraid that pk scumbags will appear.They are attracted from blue armors and red weapons.You are target if you have something like that.

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Znipo    42
6 hours ago, Toooldforthis said:

I Can kill fast enough and i bought rune xp 200% and af altar etc pass several times  and only with that worth you to use macro many hours.Now i wont buy of course nothing of those and i wont risk my gear for maybe 3% xp in a month at 103.I dont care i will go 104 sooner or later no more money.I see scumbags are everywhere .Macro is  a uselless tool now.Iam already tired to use it these days while i watch every minute because iam afraid that pk scumbags will appear.They are attracted from blue armors and red weapons.You are target if you have something like that.

With a proper macro, its impossible to make you karma.

And it would be much, much more than 3%.

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Neutron    31

Hello Everyone,

Just an update, recently a Next Target update was added in Korea, we've requested this feature to be added early to the NCW Global Version and it should be coming out on 3/7 provided we find no major issues with it when testing.

To summarize, it will change Next Target to have 4-options which can be changed from your Game Options.

  • Default  (Same as existing Next Target)
  • Monsters (Only targets hostile creatures within Next Target Range)
  • PCs (Only target hostile players (Red/Purple/Clan War/Battlefield)
  • NPCS (Only target Friendly NPCs)

This change is not going to impact the /target command, as that uses a partial string matching system.

Continuing to use a macro with /target "monster name" will likely still result in the main topic of this thread, but using the Monster Only NextTarget option should eliminate this need going forward.

~Thanks

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Draecke    482
1 hour ago, Neutron said:

Hello Everyone,

Just an update, recently a Next Target update was added in Korea, we've requested this feature to be added early to the NCW Global Version and it should be coming out on 3/7 provided we find no major issues with it when testing.

To summarize, it will change Next Target to have 4-options which can be changed from your Game Options.

  • Default  (Same as existing Next Target)
  • Monsters (Only targets hostile creatures within Next Target Range)
  • PCs (Only target hostile players (Red/Purple/Clan War/Battlefield)
  • NPCS (Only target Friendly NPCs)

This change is not going to impact the /target command, as that uses a partial string matching system.

Continuing to use a macro with /target "monster name" will likely still result in the main topic of this thread, but using the Monster Only NextTarget option should eliminate this need going forward.

~Thanks

That's great news for a lot of lazy people out there and how about fixing the scripting like adrenaline etc. or you think it's perfectly normal that always the same raid CC enters dragon even when there are 3 to 4 different CC's clicking at the same time - kinda gets very obvious after 39 consequence entries in a row so how come nothing has been done about it after say the 20th time ?

Just saying that doing nothing is the wrong message to sent to the single most heavily populated server you got left.

Thanks for you time.

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KKKm    23
45 minutes ago, Draecke said:

That's great news for a lot of lazy people out there and how about fixing the scripting like adrenaline etc. or you think it's perfectly normal that always the same raid CC enters dragon even when there are 3 to 4 different CC's clicking at the same time - kinda gets very obvious after 39 consequence entries in a row so how come nothing has been done about it after say the 20th time ?

Just saying that doing nothing is the wrong message to sent to the single most heavily populated server you got left.

Thanks for you time.

Another nova crying about scripts . This crybabies are never gonna stop crying . We’re is @fooz btw why he isn’t crying ? 

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Draecke    482
2 hours ago, KKKm said:

Another nova crying about scripts . This crybabies are never gonna stop crying . We’re is @fooz btw why he isn’t crying ? 

call it whatever you want, the statistics are what makes it abundant clear that something ain't right and nothing you or anyone else will say here changes that simple fact.

73d014c12c8e2e4af02e146139124b70--good-q

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OmenOfSteel    143
7 hours ago, Neutron said:

Hello Everyone,

Just an update, recently a Next Target update was added in Korea, we've requested this feature to be added early to the NCW Global Version and it should be coming out on 3/7 provided we find no major issues with it when testing.

To summarize, it will change Next Target to have 4-options which can be changed from your Game Options.

  • Default  (Same as existing Next Target)
  • Monsters (Only targets hostile creatures within Next Target Range)
  • PCs (Only target hostile players (Red/Purple/Clan War/Battlefield)
  • NPCS (Only target Friendly NPCs)

This change is not going to impact the /target command, as that uses a partial string matching system.

Continuing to use a macro with /target "monster name" will likely still result in the main topic of this thread, but using the Monster Only NextTarget option should eliminate this need going forward.

~Thanks

NIce you are alive, we had our doubts.

You might wanna pm "dudot on Naia as DragonHunters already found a work-around to this, according to what they said. Might save you trouble afterwards.

Also you might wanna check the bot DH is using for big-style CRP transfer (killing alt-clan none-stop 24/7 for CRP). Killing of the alts can be done by macro, but check who is clicking "To  Castle" on the deads. Knowing DH it will 100% not be done by hand :)

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Dargor    37

I'd express my opinion on the latest news on macro targeting, but it won't make a difference, so why bother?

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12 hours ago, Neutron said:

Hello Everyone,

Just an update, recently a Next Target update was added in Korea, we've requested this feature to be added early to the NCW Global Version and it should be coming out on 3/7 provided we find no major issues with it when testing.

To summarize, it will change Next Target to have 4-options which can be changed from your Game Options.

  • Default  (Same as existing Next Target)
  • Monsters (Only targets hostile creatures within Next Target Range)
  • PCs (Only target hostile players (Red/Purple/Clan War/Battlefield)
  • NPCS (Only target Friendly NPCs)

This change is not going to impact the /target command, as that uses a partial string matching system.

Continuing to use a macro with /target "monster name" will likely still result in the main topic of this thread, but using the Monster Only NextTarget option should eliminate this need going forward.

~Thanks

This wont change nothing. Those who know Game Mechanics still can force people to PK even using this new Next Target.

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N4zgul    16
On 2/28/2018 at 1:11 PM, Yidao said:

I myself play Lineage 2 because I like hitting things over the head, using looped macros only for Sonata buffing, so I wouldn't know. But possibly you are underestimating the personnel cost as in man-hours required to deal with tickets in comparison with the few thousand dollars that players spend on Instance Passes or Exp Runes per month.

However that may be, the first version of Congero's announcement was made by Lineage M Producer Lee Seong-gu during a press conference on May 16, 2017:
http://www.inven.co.kr/webzine/news/?news=177830 (Korean)
http://boards.rochand.com/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=2094&start=40#p37689 (English)

I have no idea whether Hime simply translated that and adapted it to the situation at NCWest, or whether our Producer Nam Taek-rim sent an explicit directive to Neutron. In either case, the policy as lined out by Conguero is coming right from the headquarter. Keep in mind, the current staff consists of the survivors of the 2011/2012 purges; they are not stupid. You can be sure that they have looked at the numbers and come to the conclusion that macro-botters are economic non-factors in the greater scheme of things :)

i'm just curious if its not a secret what toon you play now for fun? :) and what is ur general feeling about this game, now. i mean, if worth it to do something, and if yes, with what class? ty. :) 

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Vassy    28
29 minutes ago, N4zgul said:

i'm just curious if its not a secret what toon you play now for fun? :) and what is ur general feeling about this game, now. i mean, if worth it to do something, and if yes, with what class? ty. :) 

Hitting things over the head sounds like he's playing pig(ertheia mage) :)

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Yidao    149

Sayha's Seer is one of the classes I have never played, firstly because of the operating cost (Spiritshots are more expensive than Soulshots), and also because they are too complicated to play. My real-life job (translator) is intellectually challenging, so I prefer simple pleasures when I am off duty. "Hitting things over the head" was referring to the Hammercrush skill of Warsmiths. I play mainly Dwarves, both Maestros and Fortune Seekers, not because they are such mighty warriors but because they are simple to play - Fortune Seekers don't have all those pesky self-buffs to keep up like the other Dagger classes.

Unfortunately the hunting grounds in my level range (mid 90s) are now heavily infested with bots, which makes for example pulling trains at the Seal of Shilen impossible. So I nowadays play mainly ranged Dual Classes (Summoners, Archers). "Being worth it" doesn't come into this. For me Lineage 2 is simply a time killer. I have not purchased one single NCoin in my whole life and I couldn't care less if the servers get wiped tomorrow :P

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N4zgul    16
1 hour ago, Yidao said:

Sayha's Seer is one of the classes I have never played, firstly because of the operating cost (Spiritshots are more expensive than Soulshots), and also because they are too complicated to play. My real-life job (translator) is intellectually challenging, so I prefer simple pleasures when I am off duty. "Hitting things over the head" was referring to the Hammercrush skill of Warsmiths. I play mainly Dwarves, both Maestros and Fortune Seekers, not because they are such mighty warriors but because they are simple to play - Fortune Seekers don't have all those pesky self-buffs to keep up like the other Dagger classes.

Unfortunately the hunting grounds in my level range (mid 90s) are now heavily infested with bots, which makes for example pulling trains at the Seal of Shilen impossible. So I nowadays play mainly ranged Dual Classes (Summoners, Archers). "Being worth it" doesn't come into this. For me Lineage 2 is simply a time killer. I have not purchased one single NCoin in my whole life and I couldn't care less if the servers get wiped tomorrow :P

when i was in emoqq about the game i also played this cute dorfie class, unfortunatelly they dont have profit anymore from spoil/craft, only enchant, but with a big risk, and a  heavy adena investment. i heared in the future, they will augment somehow the pve power of maestro again. or its only a rumour?

Edited by N4zgul

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Yidao    149

Not a rumor but an abandoned plan from 2013:
http://boards.rochand.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1044#p18012
In 2015 the developers tentatively thought again about a diversification of the Tyrr classes:
http://lineage2.plaync.com/board/letters/recent
Nothing has been heard again since then. For the foreseeable future Dwarves will remain what they are now. No improvements have been even hinted at.

But that was my point. I don't play for profit from spoiling/crafting/overenchanting but simply because I like hitting things over the head. Call me kinky, but I find it deeply satisfying in an archaic, stone-age way to bash in heads with a hammer, a wooden club, or a handy rock. Just the process of killing, no other reward required :D

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