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Conguero

PSA on Automated Macros and PvP

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Conguero    116

We’ve recently seen confusion in the community regarding what is considered fair play in PvP, and how a player using the Automated Macros system while AFK can potentially avoid incurring PKs or losing valuable items. For anyone who has been in this scenario and unclear about NCSOFT policies, here’s where we stand.

Using Hunting Macros While AFK (Don’t!)

First and foremost, while the Automated Macros system in Lineage 2 was designed to be robust enough that players can streamline certain elements of gameplay, it’s not built to be a bot tool. In fact, target macros are intentionally kept very simple to prevent any complex automated gameplay. Regardless of how creative and comprehensive your macros are, it’s expected that you’re using them while actively playing or observing your character at all times. You’re responsible for all of the actions of your character and there is no separate policy to protect you from any potential consequences you may face while AFK.

Putting the Penalty in the PK

Lineage 2 is considered an open PvP game in which PKs are intended to deter players from engaging in combat with each other without accepting the associated risks. Ultimately PKs can result in the loss of equipped items regardless of their value or usefulness—this includes items that ordinarily can’t be dropped. There’s a fair amount of PvP persistence required while playing the game normally to reach this point. If you’re using macros while AFK, however, you should know that your character is not immune from PKs either. As target macros don’t distinguish between friend and foe, your AFK farming routine can potentially be disrupted to pull your character into a PvP state and incur PKs.

Be warned! If you lose an exceptionally rare and powerful piece of equipment to another player while you’re AFK, Customer Support will be unable to restore it for you. Ultimately the situation of losing items to PK is easily avoided, and hopefully this info helps you stay safe out there!

UPDATE: New Next Target Macro Functionality

In the March 7 game update a new UI setting has been added to allow players greater flexibility in finding intended targets using macros. As many players have avoided using Next Target in macros for this reason, we want to make sure you know about this new customizable functionality. Specifically, if you want to make sure you don’t accidentally attack another player who’s Hostile to you, we recommend you update your macros to use Next Target for targeting Monsters in the world.

You can find more info on the Next Target UI options in this thread.

Sincerely,

The Lineage II Team

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Draecke    378

thanks for the clarification, funny that it was needed but hey while we're at it stating the obvious etc. can you provide us an official stance from NCWest on Adrenaline usage now that it's usage is increasing with no visible counter actions done by NC to battle it ?

was taking out zRanger & l2tower just something done to shuffle the whole script abuse under the carpet and it is cost to much to keep the big data analytics running on the back end to auto ban 3rd party soft users ?

just curious as if nothing get's done and this is the beginning of the 2nd golden age of scripting it could quite well end up being the final nail..

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AiZeN    50
5 minutes ago, Draecke said:

thanks for the clarification, funny that it was needed but hey while we're at it stating the obvious etc. can you provide us an official stance from NCWest on Adrenaline usage now that it's usage is increasing with no visible counter actions done by NC to battle it ?

was taking out zRanger & l2tower just something done to shuffle the whole script abuse under the carpet and it is cost to much to keep the big data analytics running on the back end to auto ban 3rd party soft users ?

just curious as if nothing get's done and this is the beginning of the 2nd golden age of scripting it could quite well end up being the final nail..

Agreed no second chance should be given to those who are proven scripters ;);)

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mixa    283

Macros, if done right are safe to use. You can't get force flagged and you can't get PK. Again if used properly. Unfortunately there are many randoms that got no idea how the game mechanics work and end up using poorly made macros and go afk. Well in that case of course someone will take advantage of your stupidity.

 

Also about the rise of the automated pvp, +1 to finally get rid of the cheaters. No second chances, like the last time. Cheaters are cheaters and they must be perma banned in first encounter. Period.

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Argus    163
2 hours ago, mixa said:

Macros, if done right are safe to use. You can't get force flagged and you can't get PK. Again if used properly. Unfortunately there are many randoms that got no idea how the game mechanics work and end up using poorly made macros and go afk. Well in that case of course someone will take advantage of your stupidity..

Few times I see you post that, so I thought I need to quote you here and now. Do you really think that a poorly made Macro means a person is stupid? How do you measure, how stupid individual players are? Do I understand, that for you the meaning of the word Stupid is : A person who is using a poorly made Macro and goes afk? I see you post a lot in the forum, do you know what the main idea of the Forum Is? Maybe it is time for you to share your knowledge and help others? Or you could simply stick to telling people how Stupid they are?

2 hours ago, mixa said:

Also about the rise of the automated pvp, +1 to finally get rid of the cheaters. No second chances, like the last time. Cheaters are cheaters and they must be perma banned in first encounter. Period.

About your second comment, yes pvp aid software is truly terrible, I have explained my opinion in a different post! I do agree with you, people who are using such programs should get a harsh penalty ( perma Ban, as you said no second chance), but before that I believe GM's and DEVs should really take a look into that. I am sure there is a way for them to make such kind of software unusable

We all know that NCSOFT WEST is able to fix the game, we all know that! There are few things that need improvement or a slight change in order to make L2 more appealing to old and new players, sadly it seems it will never be done, or it will take ages.

 

 

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mixa    283
28 minutes ago, Argus said:

Few times I see you post that, so I thought I need to quote you here and now. Do you really think that a poorly made Macro means a person is stupid? How do you measure, how stupid individual players are? Do I understand, that for you the meaning of the word Stupid is : A person who is using a poorly made Macro and goes afk? I see you post a lot in the forum, do you know what the main idea of the Forum Is? Maybe it is time for you to share your knowledge and help others? Or you could simply stick to telling people how Stupid they are?

 

I'm not judging anyone and I can qualify someone as stupid only after extensive observation. What I'm saying is, most ppl don't play L2, they got used to just buy it. These are the consequences of nobody taking even a little time to learn a thing or two.

Also, I've got nothing to share on a dying game. When there was a time to share things, me and many others did.

Edited by mixa

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Argus    163

You can not have extensive observation upon individual players to be honest, it is something a GM ingame can have, but that's not the point here!

I was sick of people using soft for pvp, anti stabs, see you while in hide, somehow detecting enemies from really far away, spamming pots at a set moment, auto heal, auto target, auto assist, it was a nightmare. When GOD update was introduced many thought that kind of soft will be taken care of, but it was not, so I quit. Stil the L2STORE was not that big of a deal back than, mostly XP boost, VIT boost etc etc .. 

I do not agree about the dying game thing also, there are certain actions to prevent it from getting worse or even dying.

As for you and me, we have our own opinions! Here it is the same as in real life ( if real life is even real :) )! It will be much better to open threads and comment in a positive way, share your knowledge and spread the wisdom of an experienced player, help others, try to Unite them! Think about it.

Cheers!

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Ferine    14

+1 for wanting an official stance on all the players using Adrenaline and other 3rd party programs for PvP and Dragons etc. Have you changed your stance on it being against the rules? It seems perfectly fine for people to do it right now. There's already PvE bot trains popping up around the map in places like AF etc.

 

If scripting isn't getting looked into then people might as well stop being competitive or PvPing. If people stop bothering competing then there's not much point buying your overpriced NCStore junk, I guess at least the bot program makers make some money out of it though. 

 

 

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2SHAE    17
1 hour ago, Argus said:

About your second comment, yes pvp aid software is truly terrible, I have explained my opinion in a different post! I do agree with you, people who are using such programs should get a harsh penalty ( perma Ban, as you said no second chance), but before that I believe GM's and DEVs should really take a look into that. I am sure there is a way for them to make such kind of software unusable

No they should not. They can detect this shit they dont need to spend any time or resources to stop it being usable.

Let the morons who use such software log it in and just ban there chars and all their items alongside it. Why put the expense onto NCSoft into blocking such software when its so much easier to just detect and ban the idiots that are incapable of using there hands to play this game themselves.

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Argus    163

I agree with you, if they ban cheaters and remove the soft aids in pvp, the situation on the server will change drastically!

Many players are overgeared, but they can only PVP with software, those who truly know what to do and have imba equipment will still be crazy good, but will have human reflexes instead of the idiotic software 0.0001 sec reactions. It will be much more balanced even with the OP gear difference. Do you agree with that?

Edited by Argus
typo
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Ferine    14

Fixing PvP software won't fix the gear issue, although it will help a bit, mostly help for clan activities such as dragon raid entry etc. You can't underestimate the effect of all of the pay 2 win garbage in the game now. Sadly even I admit that removing the pay 2 win gear would have much more of an effect on the game than fixing pvp automation at the moment.

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Yidao    149
1 hour ago, 2SHAE said:

No they should not. They can detect this shit they dont need to spend any time or resources to stop it being usable.

For everybody:

This is the anti-bot system developed by NCsoft Chief Mathematician Lee Eun-jo:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/316906710_You_are_a_Game_Bot_Uncovering_Game_Bots_in_MMORPGs_via_Self-similarity_in_the_Wild

NCWest has that system since almost two years, it can safely and without false positives detect a bot within a week, automatically and with no staff required. Activating or de-activating this system is a political decision taken by Neutron as the responsible Producer. Maybe he would care to make a post why he has de-activated the anti-bot system so that the same Adrenaline bots run rampant over all lvl 85~97 hunting grounds for months on end.

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Feedlee    4

So the clan that was the leader in cheating scripting that even had their own custom bot especially made for their core members

the clan that 50% of its members were banned at least once for botting now cries about bots? lol

imo after this statement i am now 100% sure that the game is bot free cause else nova and co would be the 1st that would use it

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Argus    163
29 minutes ago, Ferine said:

Fixing PvP software won't fix the gear issue, although it will help a bit, mostly help for clan activities such as dragon raid entry etc. You can't underestimate the effect of all of the pay 2 win garbage in the game now. Sadly even I admit that removing the pay 2 win gear would have much more of an effect on the game than fixing pvp automation at the moment.

You need to be realistic here, P2W gear is here to stay, if we like it or not, that's he situation! GM's cant remove it from players who already have it!

1. Removing the PVP software aid is good for all, it will balance the situation A BIT. It means that, if a person spends 5000 dollars and he is bad at PVP, he should learn! Do you think if someone spends his real money, and knows he will get banned, because of using that software, he will still use it ? It means that another player with much less gear still has the chance of outplaying the overgeared one! Do you agree?

2. What will really balance the game In my opinion is to implement all the P2W items somehow obtainable by simply playing the game. There should be some activity and grind in order for a player who is investing his TIME ( which is much more valuable than dollars, because you cant buy time ), TO OBTAIN these items.

3. L2STORE is getting demonized nowadays, by players who cant afford buying the promos there. So making these items Obtainable somehow by playing and investing TIME will be a good balance. Many players will have new goals in game, will try to form parties, interact with others, which is great! I'm sure NCSOFT can figure that out, IF they want to. That will probably lead to increasing the player base.

Very sad NCSOFT WEST is not interested in communicating with us, seems they are pretty content with what they do now :(

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Ferine    14
1 hour ago, Argus said:

You need to be realistic here, P2W gear is here to stay, if we like it or not, that's he situation! GM's cant remove it from players who already have it!

1. Removing the PVP software aid is good for all, it will balance the situation A BIT. It means that, if a person spends 5000 dollars and he is bad at PVP, he should learn! Do you think if someone spends his real money, and knows he will get banned, because of using that software, he will still use it ? It means that another player with much less gear still has the chance of outplaying the overgeared one! Do you agree?

2. What will really balance the game In my opinion is to implement all the P2W items somehow obtainable by simply playing the game. There should be some activity and grind in order for a player who is investing his TIME ( which is much more valuable than dollars, because you cant buy time ), TO OBTAIN these items.

3. L2STORE is getting demonized nowadays, by players who cant afford buying the promos there. So making these items Obtainable somehow by playing and investing TIME will be a good balance. Many players will have new goals in game, will try to form parties, interact with others, which is great! I'm sure NCSOFT can figure that out, IF they want to. That will probably lead to increasing the player base.

Very sad NCSOFT WEST is not interested in communicating with us, seems they are pretty content with what they do now :(

 

I wasn't saying to remove P2W items, I know that won't happen and wouldn't want that to happen since I've spent a lot on the game myself. I'm just being realistic and saying that P2W is more of an issue in the game than scripts as far as PvP is concerned.

 

I'm 100% for and advocating tackling scripting, it causes tons of issues including unbalance for Dragons, PvP, Oly and Siege etc. Tackling the issue will help the game a lot.

 

R.E. Your comment: 3. The L2 store isn't getting demonised, IT IS a downright scam. It unbalances the game and preys upon people with low impulse control and addictive natures. I'm not saying this as someone who can't afford it or doesn't play the game much, I'm saying it as a  player of 12 years with low impulse control, who's spent a lot of time and money on the game. Even my alts have stacked NCStore gear so they can do what I need them to do. The best olympiad I have is on my ISS in +8 Immortal since it's down at the level where players aren't stacked with junk and give a fair, fun fight.

 

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Argus    163
On ‎08‎.‎02‎.‎2018 at 3:55 AM, Conguero said:

We’ve recently seen confusion in the community regarding what is considered fair play in PvP, and how a player using the Automated Macros system

Conguero, good day! Do you follow the comments in the Thread? Are we going to get any official information from a NCSOFT WEST representative ?

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ChuckSteak    17
On 2/8/2018 at 9:32 AM, Ferine said:

 

I wasn't saying to remove P2W items, I know that won't happen and wouldn't want that to happen since I've spent a lot on the game myself. I'm just being realistic and saying that P2W is more of an issue in the game than scripts as far as PvP is concerned.

 

Fernie,

As a player who has invested at least a decent amount of USD, how would you feel at the end of the day if the P2W gear was simply removed from the game?

Alternately, how would you feel if the P2W gear was added to the game in a relatively (<- key word) easily obtainable fashion?

I honestly don't know how you would reply, but I would imagine if you truly enjoyed L2, you and most other heavy spenders would rather see it return to a more balanced field simply for a more robust in game experience.

Perhaps I am wrong, and the whales of the world truly don't enjoy competition in most scenarios in life. I just don't think that is the actual human condition, I believe that things are more rewarding and enjoyable when they are challenging and not just available to just anyone for purchase.

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Draecke    378
3 hours ago, ChuckSteak said:

Alternately, how would you feel if the P2W gear was added to the game in a relatively (<- key word) easily obtainable fashion?

removing would cause only more drama's while making it more easy to get is part of the game as the main benefits of being "whale" is purely to be the first having a certain advantage - this has always been like that and when you look at current event rewards you will see that previous very expensive items have become much more affordable now..

but we're getting off topic here as there's no denying that 95+% of our player base do NOT want a return to fully automated PVP or PVE

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Hamms    0

"Relatively easy" is a phrase not known to us l2 players. Do you mean relatively easy like killing mushrooms near elven fortress to get spores to turn in for 10k?

 

Or do you mean relatively easy like trading a few mil, 5 giant energy, and 5 energy of destruction for a ruby level one?

 

I mean it's not that bad... You can only get 2 eod per day, and idk how you get GE except the ones from oly, so that's 6 from one character... 18 from 3. 54 from 9 if you can manage that. Just how many sets of 10 can you do if you 3 box them all night?

Anyway im thinking most people think you just play one character, so 6 a week. Then 14 eod a week if you play every day, and free to play makes people think "casual" so we say they get in 3 days, which hopefully are oly days (so they can experience the broken-esque pvp of lineage 2) and it all boils down to 1 brooch gem a week, or 52 a year, and probably a single level 4 jewel a year. 

 

That's not bad for lineage 2. Not bad at all. 

But 130 nccoins = 100 eod (dunno adena price, but our casual player won't be making much of that unless he is macro farming fortune pockets 24/7) 

120 GE is 800 nccoin and i wouldn't buy those for more than 4 mil unless i was selling nccoins anyway... Because 1 billion adena is worth more GE than 120.

 

So the p2w will still be just as rampant and the people who spent $10,000 making their level 6 tanzanite will feel slightly cheated because they have enough adena and means of farming it to just buy all of your GE and event eod packs and make everyone in their CP a SET of lvl 6 jewels.

 

No thanks. I think 1 truffle is just fine. Don't need everyone in ms and nova running around with all that now, do we?

 

Imo nova couldn't afford it though. I hear they haven't gotten a dragon in months :o

 

Scripting is whatever, honestly. Don't you all just 1 and 2 shot eachother anyway?

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Afum    30
On 8.02.2018 at 1:55 AM, Conguero said:

We’ve recently seen confusion in the community regarding what is considered fair play in PvP, and how a player using the Automated Macros system while AFK can potentially avoid incurring PKs or losing valuable items. For anyone who has been in this scenario and unclear about NCSOFT policies, here’s where we stand.

Using Hunting Macros While AFK (Don’t!)

First and foremost, while the Automated Macros system in Lineage 2 was designed to be robust enough that players can streamline certain elements of gameplay, it’s not built to be a bot tool. In fact, target macros are intentionally kept very simple to prevent any complex automated gameplay. Regardless of how creative and comprehensive your macros are, it’s expected that you’re using them while actively playing or observing your character at all times. You’re responsible for all of the actions of your character and there is no separate policy to protect you from any potential consequences you may face while AFK.

Putting the Penalty in the PK

Lineage 2 is considered an open PvP game in which PKs are intended to deter players from engaging in combat with each other without accepting the associated risks. Ultimately PKs can result in the loss of equipped items regardless of their value or usefulness—this includes items that ordinarily can’t be dropped. There’s a fair amount of PvP persistence required while playing the game normally to reach this point. If you’re using macros while AFK, however, you should know that your character is not immune from PKs either. As target macros don’t distinguish between friend and foe, your AFK farming routine can potentially be disrupted to pull your character into a PvP state and incur PKs.

Be warned! If you lose an exceptionally rare and powerful piece of equipment to another player while you’re AFK, Customer Support will be unable to restore it for you. Ultimately the situation of losing items to PK is easily avoided, and hopefully this info helps you stay safe out there!

Sincerely,

The Lineage II Team

You Sound like AFK macro isnt forbidden , so u made bot tool for ppl so they cant be banned for afk farming , again NCsoft u showed ur care about players :D

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Whatif    16

Confirmed , Adrenaline is functioning and pvp is automated at the moment. CoC , olympiad , Sieges mainly.  Conquero  , you should address this problem asap.

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Whatif    16
6 hours ago, Afum said:

You Sound like AFK macro isnt forbidden , so u made bot tool for ppl so they cant be banned for afk farming , again NCsoft u showed ur care about players :D

Noone will ban you for macro afk. You just will lose your items  thats all :D, This will be done by players. 

Edited by Whatif

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Afum    30
42 minutes ago, Whatif said:

Noone will ban you for macro afk. You just will lose your items  thats all :D, This will be done by players. 

?? How can you lose items being afk macro? not a chance , u need to be PK to lose it

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Whatif    16
26 minutes ago, Afum said:

?? How can you lose items being afk macro? not a chance , u need to be PK to lose it

Its related to flagging unflagging system. If your macro take flaged target right before it unflags and enemy dies white  because your macro targeted him alrdy , it will count as PK . Live people usualy stop chasing blinking purple toons. While  macro do not . Imo someone eating breakfast :D , well his own fault! 

 Conquero is absolutely right. You want macro afk ? you can  but  if  your toon will get in any troubles dont QQ in forum afterall. Or learn to macro properly  ))). 

Edited by Whatif

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