An Update on Greater Dyes

[RickRoss]

Everybody mention that its better for pvp bla bla... Do you know that this is way way worse scenario. Noone gona flag and pvp for spot when you cant get res for 80%. WIT dye is also giving land rate of curses and resist from curses.

Also they have no idea how to implement this on their downgraded starwars version and exitscam with this

Edited November 6, 2018 by RickRoss

[Alpheratz]

52/5000

Another commendable decision!

The advent of breaking the +5 limitation of the dyes seen on Live servers, and even on other classic servers, led a lack of control over the class balance that led to the failure of those Servers!

A very precise decision that, summed with the modernization of the skills grade of the classes, will maintain in the PVPs the high level of skill strategy.

The guys who claim this lack of control here are, probabily, a class of weak player that the gaming market has manufactured during the last few years. They want only ease to progress in the game. They hate reading or learning new synergies that require more than two skills. Need to click on only 1 button to solve it all. They are like grasshoppers, devast a region to migreted to other (in this case, devast a game to migreted to other)

In Lineage's Golden Age, the dyes were setted like that (+5 limitation) and everybody have only good memories about that! This +12 idea is an abortion from experiences of pirate servers that helped to forge a lazy and less creative generation of players. 

To argue  for the "increased diversification and personalization" is so cynical that it makes even more evident the intentions of making PVPs tedious, summarized in a single click, to a single skill. Since in the same way that they argued that the +5 format would impel players to use common set ups, the +12 setting would also do exactly the same! The player mentality will change just because the range is now +12 !? Obviously that not! They will keep using the same common settings, but on a even more devastating scale to server health because it will impoverish the PVP and throw in garbage the reasons of class modernization to make them more interesting to play.

[zorme]

I can't understand how anyone can say that being able to +12 a stat is a good thing for the game. 

It's EXTREMELY beneficial for mages and no other classes. For fighters if you +12 STR you have to sacrifice health. Maybe manageable for human fighters but no other race. 

Mages can add to WIT and INT only sacrificing mana regen, mdef, and debuff resistance. It's not even remotely comparable for the 2 classes. 

+5 is a great limitation for all classes

[Traum13]

If it was like that why it wasn’t on the path notes ? Do you understand that you are boosting mages right now ? Mages can go +4 con/wit/int with 0 cost . IM A 58 lvl destroyer I made this class to farm with +12 str . Why are you changing things without asking your community? Why are you keep failing us in every aspect ? At least make it mages can not use CON or use CON - wit/int@Hime @Juji

[SumTingWong]

No cost?  We lose Mdef, MP regen and weight limit.  There is certainly a cost, lmao.

[AliceOnFire]

People are so dumb to think this hurts mages only. Nuker's dyes are still fine for pvp with +4wit +4int +4con. But good luck to tanks, tyrants, warlords just to name a few.... And literally any fighter class who wanted to PVE with +12 str.

[Vlademere]

14 hours ago, Juji said:

Currently, Greater Dyes will not add stats above +5. This is the intended maximum stat bonus for our Classic servers, and we are currently not considering raising the cap due to major concerns with balance issues that were found in other service regions.

Understandably, many players have used 2nd Class Dyes under the assumption stats can be raised to +12, and the game does not fully indicate that you cannot. To allow for players to remove their applied dyes, and potentially the abundance of dyes you may have, we will be running a special event with Puss the Cat from November 7 to November 21.

Puss the Cat will be offering his services to Classic servers only. His services include:

• Removing Dyes without a fee. All 10 used Dyes will be returned to your inventory.
• Applying dyes to a dye pattern slot without a fee.
• Exchanging dyes for nearly the same Adena price as they were purchased for from the Dye Merchant.

Please note Puss the Cat’s Dye services does not apply to Greater Dyes dropped from Monsters/Field Raids or 1st class dyes. Normal fees and removal costs still apply.

Thanks for keeping the game in it's original way.

Will there be any compensation for players who purchased dye, then had to remove them? Thus only receiving 5 dye from the tattoo NPC?

[Hikimaru]

1 hour ago, zorme said:

I can't understand how anyone can say that being able to +12 a stat is a good thing for the game. 

It's EXTREMELY beneficial for mages and no other classes. For fighters if you +12 STR you have to sacrifice health. Maybe manageable for human fighters but no other race. 

Mages can add to WIT and INT only sacrificing mana regen, mdef, and debuff resistance. It's not even remotely comparable for the 2 classes. 

+5 is a great limitation for all classes

I completely disagree, at the same time that a mage will get a huge bonus by having +12 wit, ANY debuff will land on that mage, and if you've played classic before on end game, debuffs are extremely important. If a fighter goes for full str he will probably 1shot the mage, so it is a matter of strategy, some dagger for example might go full Con, some rather be glass cannons... I believe we should be able to choose our setup. Mages are only really strongs until ppl start buying jewelry, then they become dependent on magic crt + boss jewels, and having more wit is critical for that.

[FatHips]

Great change, just about anything that is more like legacy L2 rather than this classic frankenstein is good.

@"Othells" -- obviously your opinion is based on GOD+ stuff or you would call them daggers

[RickRoss]

2 hours ago, zorme said:

I can't understand how anyone can say that being able to +12 a stat is a good thing for the game. 

It's EXTREMELY beneficial for mages and no other classes. For fighters if you +12 STR you have to sacrifice health. Maybe manageable for human fighters but no other race. 

Mages can add to WIT and INT only sacrificing mana regen, mdef, and debuff resistance. It's not even remotely comparable for the 2 classes. 

+5 is a great limitation for all classes

Again ppl that never played classic comment with no idea about the game. Phantom ranger with 12 str oneshot everything except tanks maybe. Tanks with 12 con have epic amount of hp and epic def block rate. Classic is made to be like this, this here is some shitshow with admins that can't fix their bugs. The moment when you call bug a server feature.

[Hikizume]

58 minutes ago, FatHips said:

Great change, just about anything that is more like legacy L2 rather than this classic frankenstein is good.

@"Othells" -- obviously your opinion is based on GOD+ stuff or you would call them daggers

Actually i think "othells" is a reference to the rune which was introduced in classic to replace the SA. 

I had stopped classic when they introduced them but I'm pretty sure they were given GoD's classes name.

The othell one give critical rate/dmg i think

[Dhol]

2 hours ago, FatHips said:

Great change, just about anything that is more like legacy L2 rather than this classic frankenstein is good.

@"Othells" -- obviously your opinion is based on GOD+ stuff or you would call them daggers

Othell is a name of Rune that has been implemented at 2.0 Classic servers. It's one of the 8 runes and gives crt chance/damage.

[Naiswon]

Hello Ncsoft,

I would like to ask somethin for my understanding.
For myself, Classic was introduced in EU with +12 Dyes and I know you make some things different.
On the Update to 1.5 the stat WIT got kinda nerfed, to balance nukers going +12 WIT, additional all Mages received the skill "Spell Master, Casting Spd +10%, M.Critical Rate +10".
If a mage would still go for +12 WIT he kinda would have a lil bit less Cast Speed and M.Crit.
And now you gonna limit to +5 WIT, but still gonna give mages a BONUS from +10% cast spd and +10 M.Crit rate?
This skill was introduced, based on characters going +12 Dyes.

Another think is for me the difference between Lineage2 and Lineage2 Classic.
Stats are effecting different, for example DEX, gave movement speed, on Classic it doesnt. CON was effecting stun resistence.
Those changes were made because of the +12Dyes.

Did you consider this? What are your plans on "Spell Master"?

 

[Dhol]

Just now, Naiswon said:

Hello Ncsoft,

I would like to ask somethin for my understanding.
For myself, Classic was introduced in EU with +12 Dyes and I know you make some things different.
On the Update to 1.5 the stat WIT got kinda nerfed, to balance nukers going +12 WIT, additional all Mages received the skill "Spell Master, Casting Spd +10%, M.Critical Rate +10".
If a mage would still go for +12 WIT he kinda would have a lil bit less Cast Speed and M.Crit.
And now you gonna limit to +5 WIT, but still gonna give mages a BONUS from +10% cast spd and +10 M.Crit rate?
This skill was introduced, based on characters going +12 Dyes.

Another think is for me the difference between Lineage2 and Lineage2 Classic.
Stats are effecting different, for example DEX, gave movement speed, on Classic it doesnt. CON was effecting stun resistence.
Those changes were made because of the +12Dyes.

Did you consider this? What are your plans on "Spell Master"?

 

This is also a very valid point. I feel like developers at NA changed a lot of things, not thinking how it affects other areas of the game and how it corresponds with other changes made to specific versions of classic. Currently we don't even know if we have "old" WIT which gave a nice boost per each +1, or a "new" WIT which was nerfed to balance +12 WIT mages. There were a lot of changes introduced to Classic, among them the ones that Naiswon mentioned, which were influenced by the ability of adding +12 to any stat.

Another example of developers cutting smth out while keeping other things in is not introducing runes, but introducing 2.0+ raid bosses which were improved to make farming runes harder. It makes things unbalanced with that kind of mashups.

[SOTARIOU]

Thank you for the update dear Juji, although i already gave this 250k fee for a +4 str

One question please, 
I have a +4 STR dye, and manage to get that C armor with additional +4 STR... Will i get +8 total??

Thank you in advance

[Hype]

Juji you want your own custom server or what? Did you play classic and understand what you doing? Probably no, we going same wave again, all playing mage, melee class and fighter wil be usless again, i see here many ppls who say tnx, but soon when they understand what its mean for fighters ,they quit, on classic stats not working and what you offer to ppl who play fighters? Or its your plan how to improve l2shop? Soon items with stats? Dunno Juji but seems like your team was not rdy to start classic server, this build sux and your wave also wrong...

[Decayed]

3 hours ago, FatHips said:

Great change, just about anything that is more like legacy L2 rather than this classic frankenstein is good.

@"Othells" -- obviously your opinion is based on GOD+ stuff or you would call them daggers

He's talking about the rune in classic. Swing and a miss

[Dwarves]

1 minute ago, Decayed said:

Not sure if you're trolling but juji = jason

If he is then this is sooo much worse, because now i'm really confussed how he knew this since beggining but on twitter he answered to me totally opposite

 

Edited November 6, 2018 by Dwarves

[Decayed]

On 11/6/2018 at 12:35 PM, Dwarves said:

If he is then this is sooo much worse, because now i'm really confussed how he knew this since beggining but on twitter he answered to me totally opposite

 

Do you have a link?

Btw

https://www.lineage2.com/news/lineage-ii-classic-now-live

[Decayed]

Ah ok, didn't realize it was private.  

[Alcione]

Always people crying about everything lol +5 or +12 same for all players!!! Stop cry and enjoy the game folks!!!

Edited November 6, 2018 by Alcione

[Alcione]

2 hours ago, SOTARIOU said:

Thank you for the update dear Juji, although i already gave this 250k fee for a +4 str

One question please, 
I have a +4 STR dye, and manage to get that C armor with additional +4 STR... Will i get +8 total??

Thank you in advance

Yes, the STR/INT/DEX/CON etc u get from items/armor always count, there is only +5 limit on dyes.

Edited November 6, 2018 by Alcione

[Himmelin]

On 11/5/2018 at 11:17 PM, Juji said:

Currently, Greater Dyes will not add stats above +5. This is the intended maximum stat bonus for our Classic servers, and we are currently not considering raising the cap due to major concerns with balance issues that were found in other service regions.

Understandably, many players have used 2nd Class Dyes under the assumption stats can be raised to +12, and the game does not fully indicate that you cannot. To allow for players to remove their applied dyes, and potentially the abundance of dyes you may have, we will be running a special event with Puss the Cat from November 7 to November 21.

Puss the Cat will be offering his services to Classic servers only. His services include:

• Removing Dyes without a fee. All 10 used Dyes will be returned to your inventory.
• Applying dyes to a dye pattern slot without a fee.
• Exchanging dyes for nearly the same Adena price as they were purchased for from the Dye Merchant.

Please note Puss the Cat’s Dye services does not apply to Greater Dyes dropped from Monsters/Field Raids or 1st class dyes. Normal fees and removal costs still apply.

where is puss the cat located?

[Hyperlite]

L2 before awakening never allowed stats over +5. I don't really get why people thought we would get this.

 

Once awakening was released, all base stats doubled. +5 was somewhat useless which is why the cap went to +15.

 

+10 or +15 would be a 25-50% increase on some stats. That would not be balanced.

 

I don't get why people are surprised about this. 

[Hikimaru]

4 minutes ago, Hyperlite said:

L2 before awakening never allowed stats over +5. I don't really get why people thought we would get this.

 

Once awakening was released, all base stats doubled. +5 was somewhat useless which is why the cap went to +15.

 

+10 or +15 would be a 25-50% increase on some stats. That would not be balanced.

 

I don't get why people are surprised about this. 

First, this L2 Classic, and if you haven't realized it is a new version BASED on the old versions of the game with IMPROVEMENTS. The original version of L2 Classic, which is the one we were supposed to get, had no cap for dyes, and I believe that is the problem, NC keep changing stuff from the ORIGINAL version without asking how the community feel about it.

Second, as some ppl mentioned, some stats such as wit and int were strongly nerfed after you get to certain value, and this is enough to balance ppl that go only for one trait. And finally, you have to remember that every dye has a negative attribute that comes with, and the negative is not nerfed. Therefore, if you go for full wit for example, you will get only 60% of the "pre nerf" value as benefit, but you still lose 100% of what you are taking out. That is why it is balanced, the nerf "punishes" ppl that already have a lot of that specific attribute, and allow classes that don't have that to "catch up".