Ideas behind lowered adena rates?

[villen]

7 hours ago, Hime said:

Some additional clarity:

Free to Player service and Pay to Play service have different rates. This is true for all regions. We didn't reinvent the wheel on rates. The first rate scaling issue were based on rates from another region that we did not approve. They were lower than what we intended and we've adjusted them to approximately twice the rate they were at. That puts us now on par with other free to play region rates.

Now we're on our next issue about the rates scaling. Of course what works from other free to play regions doesn't necessarily mean it works for us here so we got adjusted rates for a few Lv. 40+ zones that had scaling issues. Based on your feedback, there are more that needs to be considered. We're in constant discussions with our dev team and this is a priority issue.

Yes, you already said that, but why? Why do we have have a watered down version of Lineage 2 just because it's free to play? I think the players would appreciate a little more transparency from our "Community Managers" instead of these scripted PR responses. Not to mention that all the '"feedback" I've seen on the forums since the server launched regarding adena scaling, adena drops in certain areas and spoil rates have not been addressed in any of the areas that have been mentioned. There was literal video evidence posted on this very forum about the abysmal spoil rates and was acknowledged by Juji himself, and still not a single thing has been done to address those issues. And unfortunately the person who made that post has since rerolled to something more useful.

[Saffi]

7 hours ago, Hime said:

Some additional clarity:

Free to Player service and Pay to Play service have different rates. This is true for all regions. We didn't reinvent the wheel on rates. The first rate scaling issue were based on rates from another region that we did not approve. They were lower than what we intended and we've adjusted them to approximately twice the rate they were at. That puts us now on par with other free to play region rates.

Now we're on our next issue about the rates scaling. Of course what works from other free to play regions doesn't necessarily mean it works for us here so we got adjusted rates for a few Lv. 40+ zones that had scaling issues. Based on your feedback, there are more that needs to be considered. We're in constant discussions with our dev team and this is a priority issue.

Come on you patch the odd mobs as people lvl up, this is a joke. Put's the rates at x1 for everyone. You have done nothing but make a mess of the servers with your custom rates.

[Lightkeeper]

12 hours ago, Hime said:

Some additional clarity:

Free to Player service and Pay to Play service have different rates. This is true for all regions. We didn't reinvent the wheel on rates. The first rate scaling issue were based on rates from another region that we did not approve. They were lower than what we intended and we've adjusted them to approximately twice the rate they were at. That puts us now on par with other free to play region rates.

Now we're on our next issue about the rates scaling. Of course what works from other free to play regions doesn't necessarily mean it works for us here so we got adjusted rates for a few Lv. 40+ zones that had scaling issues. Based on your feedback, there are more that needs to be considered. We're in constant discussions with our dev team and this is a priority issue.

the only thing that I don't understand - how come l2classic.club, an pr*vate server, can maintain perfectly playable rates while having exactly 0 (zero) XP/SP boosts in their L2store? 

I'm afraid there's a problem in communication between you and NCsoft - European players have different mentality from other regions. What works in Korea doesn't necessarily have to work here. You need to make them understand that people have different needs.

[Garfield]

12 minutes ago, Lightkeeper said:

 European players have different mentality from other regions. What works in Korea doesn't necessarily have to work here. You need to make them understand that people have different needs.

And thus L2 rights have been licencend to Innova for the Euro market.

[Lightkeeper]

3 hours ago, Garfield said:

And thus L2 rights have been licencend to Innova for the Euro market.

I of course meant western players*... Part of the western playerbase culture is also aversion towards monthly fees which is why Innova is on a life support despite being a superior server and l2classic.club is going strong more than 3 years after opening.

[Garfield]

5 minutes ago, Lightkeeper said:

I of course meant western players*... Part of the western playerbase culture is also aversion towards monthly fees which is why Innova is on a life support despite being a superior server and l2classic.club is going strong more than 3 years after opening.

Innova’s L2C problem wasn’t the monthly sub from what I read on their forum. It were the players them self, who wastly contributed to it’s fall through blocking high/end game content and selling access to areas and items for real money

[Lightkeeper]

1 hour ago, Garfield said:

Innova’s L2C problem wasn’t the monthly sub from what I read on their forum. It were the players them self, who wastly contributed to it’s fall through blocking high/end game content and selling access to areas and items for real money

I wouldn't say so... Sure it contributes a lot, but the main issue is lack of new players, which lies in said monthly fees (since they're not really affected by the end-game affairs)

[Nihilist]

Please don't touch the general rates anymore, you messed it up so much already.

Just make VIP worth it (atleast double from what it is now, adena amount too) and thats it. Other wise noone will pay for VIP cus uts useless.

[Garfield]

11 minutes ago, Lightkeeper said:

I wouldn't say so... Sure it contributes a lot, but the main issue is lack of new players, which lies in said monthly fees (since they're not really affected by the end-game affairs)

Don’t want to argue, however judging from people post the main thing that discourage them from playing there, is not the monthly sub(while acknowledging the cost being slightly to high), but the fact that the server is 3 years old with majority in the 70’s lvl range and they suggest to open a fresh sub based server. Still, people are comming to Skelth... I my self started there a week ago, playing parallel to NA and seriously, an organized CP(with decent online hours per day)could easily reach 60+ on Skelth now within a month with the temporary server boost and unbroken drop rates

[wildernessbox]

Personally, I blame the kr developers for most of the issues, they are trying to push out KR/asian game styled events and game ideology in a western market with a weird chopped up client and heavily modified database. So few asian games have actually been successful over here since their game culture is completely different and the standards for their games don't really mirror our own.

So much of the client is either unadjusted or had some minor global tweaks done/removed which has left much of the game in a broken/unrefined state where rates don't make logical sense when paired with upkeep, upgrades and exp scaling.

[BlueLady]

On 16/11/2018 at 3:26 PM, Hime said:

Some additional clarity:

Free to Player service and Pay to Play service have different rates. This is true for all regions. We didn't reinvent the wheel on rates. The first rate scaling issue were based on rates from another region that we did not approve. They were lower than what we intended and we've adjusted them to approximately twice the rate they were at. That puts us now on par with other free to play region rates.

Now we're on our next issue about the rates scaling. Of course what works from other free to play regions doesn't necessarily mean it works for us here so we got adjusted rates for a few Lv. 40+ zones that had scaling issues. Based on your feedback, there are more that needs to be considered. We're in constant discussions with our dev team and this is a priority issue.

 

Just to clarify things a little

The imbalance that they have created in the game with or without intent, the only ones that benefit is for the thousands of adena seler’s that are inside the game. Motivating the players to go to them to acquire the adena they need.

[BerzerkerKing]

i seriously believe ncsoft is behind 50% of these bots why else cant they be banned or controlled/prevented? why screw with adena rates so bad that even if a nuker crafted his own blessed spirit shot c grade and could 1hit a mob that mob still gives less in adena then the 1ss was worth ncsoft is dirty and everything they do is to screw us and miss lead us and i for one hope they get sued hard and taken to court theres way to much dirty crap going on from their end

[Evel]

On 11/16/2018 at 11:26 AM, Hime said:

Some additional clarity:

Free to Player service and Pay to Play service have different rates. This is true for all regions. We didn't reinvent the wheel on rates. The first rate scaling issue were based on rates from another region that we did not approve. They were lower than what we intended and we've adjusted them to approximately twice the rate they were at. That puts us now on par with other free to play region rates.

Now we're on our next issue about the rates scaling. Of course what works from other free to play regions doesn't necessarily mean it works for us here so we got adjusted rates for a few Lv. 40+ zones that had scaling issues. Based on your feedback, there are more that needs to be considered. We're in constant discussions with our dev team and this is a priority issue.

It doesn't make sense at all to have different rates for free vs pay to play since there is no incentive to even maintain a VIP account because there is no increased rate for it. And the bonus xp just compounds this issue since you gain levels faster and make even less money than a free to play player per level.

[Sobek]

On 16.11.2018 at 8:26 PM, Hime said:

Some additional clarity:

Free to Player service and Pay to Play service have different rates. This is true for all regions. We didn't reinvent the wheel on rates. The first rate scaling issue were based on rates from another region that we did not approve. They were lower than what we intended and we've adjusted them to approximately twice the rate they were at. That puts us now on par with other free to play region rates.

Now we're on our next issue about the rates scaling. Of course what works from other free to play regions doesn't necessarily mean it works for us here so we got adjusted rates for a few Lv. 40+ zones that had scaling issues. Based on your feedback, there are more that needs to be considered. We're in constant discussions with our dev team and this is a priority issue.

@Hime GM, please, do not hesitate to joke about the customers. Set up a drop so that you can play. Currently, Eminace Bow takes 5 SSC and to kill a mob on FOM you have to hit 5 times on 5x level. The cost is 80x7 = 560a. Mobs drop 300a (70%) and so beating there we lose adena on every mob. 1 day farm (CP archer) we lost 1kk adena. (using TOP D - the same effect, because you have to give more hit) All players must create a low lev char and farm (antynest) and farm adena. This is not normal. Increasing the adeny (only) x2 will still cause losses. The current solution is used only by bots of which there are thousands at initial locations.
Please, inform me what location will be changed (drop / adena / spoil) tomorrow and the exact details how much adena will give to each mobs.
All classes are treated unfairly. I do not understand why only magicians (AOE) have a buffer. (they hit AOE and so the farm's basket is low). When will they finally rune? (othel etc.)

[Cally]

Well, the actual game principe is like this:

Monday: Playing main char at 40+
Thuesday: Farming Orc Barracks with low lvl char.
Wednesday: Playing main char at 40+
Thursday: Farming Orc Barracks with low lvl char.
Friday: Playing main char at 40+
Saturday: Farming Orc Barracks with low lvl char.
Sunday:  Playing main char at 40+

I personally will reduce my ingame time to a minimum or 0 when I reach that wall.
Because I don't think that a balanced game should work like this.
 

[tkadi21]

56 minutes ago, Cally said:

Well, the actual game principe is like this:

Monday: Playing main char at 40+
Thuesday: Farming Orc Barracks with low lvl char.
Wednesday: Playing main char at 40+
Thursday: Farming Orc Barracks with low lvl char.
Friday: Playing main char at 40+
Saturday: Farming Orc Barracks with low lvl char.
Sunday:  Playing main char at 40+

I personally will reduce my ingame time to a minimum or 0 when I reach that wall.
Because I don't think that a balanced game should work like this.
 

Yeah thats what i`m saying on discord to my clan mates when we discuss this topic - l2 overall gameplay - 

that it is unbalanced, and I do not expect any confirmation from @Hime or @Juji because these kind of things never get fully disclosed. 

This is either a continuos beta which is not declared so that we could fund the project, either as @Hime said in another post some (to be read most) things do not apply from the original koreean (or asian w/e) classic developed Lineage. But by all means they should balance it. And i`m not talking about adena rates. I can understand the game is the same in mechanics and cannot be fundamentally changed. But if the game is unbalanced, people cannot play it and cannot create the economy that is one important and particular aspect of the game. For example a good thing i guess is that there are spellbooks to be used for skills, and that they are dropping randomly and hard even. That is a good use of a game mechanic in order to slow and pace the game leveling. It also contributes to player interaction.    A bad thing for example is that they allow 3box. Yeah dont get me wrong i like playing my own boxes to level and farm. But then again it would have helped the game more by not having them or having maximum 1box, and in exchange get party xp bonus or anything that could get guilds more compact, parties more sought for, instances in parties, etc.But ofc nc soft was to greedy not to let us 3xbox in order to pay 3 times more.      I've played low rates for a couple of years and they were more balanced right from the start, but i guess this is a new attempt for ncsoft.  If they screw up this time too....

[dennyo]

On 16.11.2018 г. at 9:26 PM, Hime said:

Some additional clarity:

Free to Player service and Pay to Play service have different rates. This is true for all regions. We didn't reinvent the wheel on rates. The first rate scaling issue were based on rates from another region that we did not approve. They were lower than what we intended and we've adjusted them to approximately twice the rate they were at. That puts us now on par with other free to play region rates.

Now we're on our next issue about the rates scaling. Of course what works from other free to play regions doesn't necessarily mean it works for us here so we got adjusted rates for a few Lv. 40+ zones that had scaling issues. Based on your feedback, there are more that needs to be considered. We're in constant discussions with our dev team and this is a priority issue.

OK JUST PROVIDE US WITH THE DATABACE OF THIS SERVER... I WOUD LIKE TO KNOW WHERE WHAT TO EXPECT. 

[peszkin]

4 hours ago, Sobek said:

@Hime GM, please, do not hesitate to joke about the customers. Set up a drop so that you can play. Currently, Eminace Bow takes 5 SSC and to kill a mob on FOM you have to hit 5 times on 5x level. The cost is 80x7 = 560a. Mobs drop 300a (70%) and so beating there we lose adena on every mob. 1 day farm (CP archer) we lost 1kk adena. (using TOP D - the same effect, because you have to give more hit) All players must create a low lev char and farm (antynest) and farm adena. This is not normal. Increasing the adeny (only) x2 will still cause losses. The current solution is used only by bots of which there are thousands at initial locations.
Please, inform me what location will be changed (drop / adena / spoil) tomorrow and the exact details how much adena will give to each mobs.
All classes are treated unfairly. I do not understand why only magicians (AOE) have a buffer. (they hit AOE and so the farm's basket is low). When will they finally rune? (othel etc.)

@Hime

@Juji

totally agree..
If u dont wanna fix Adena rate,  decrease SSC/SSB consumption on C/B grade bows to 1-2 shots per hit.

[Jero]

The exp / level after 55 is roughly 15% more than it was on Skelth. Not sure how it is after 62 though. And no, you don't need to use a mid 20s char or stay in OB to make adena. 

[Piz]

On 11/16/2018 at 2:26 PM, Hime said:

Some additional clarity:

Free to Player service and Pay to Play service have different rates. This is true for all regions. We didn't reinvent the wheel on rates. The first rate scaling issue were based on rates from another region that we did not approve. They were lower than what we intended and we've adjusted them to approximately twice the rate they were at. That puts us now on par with other free to play region rates.

Now we're on our next issue about the rates scaling. Of course what works from other free to play regions doesn't necessarily mean it works for us here so we got adjusted rates for a few Lv. 40+ zones that had scaling issues. Based on your feedback, there are more that needs to be considered. We're in constant discussions with our dev team and this is a priority issue.

This is information that should have been disclosed from beginning of the server. Saying that this is how free to play servers are intended two (plus) months into the server shows the lack of clarity and honesty that has become all to familiar with NCSoft. When you announce a server "Retail Classic Experience" you set an expectation that it will be similar to what players have experienced in the past. At this point you all should clearly define what the rates truly are. The client at this point is hybrid of several versions of the classic client and has made it truly a nightmare to get a feel for how we should approach the server. 

For Example:

1-20 Quest are a catch up mechanic put in later patches then what we were supposed to have (1.5 Classic being the basis of discussion)

35-50 AI quest - Also a catch up mechanic

45-52 Forrest of Mirrors - Also a catch up mechanic.

40-46 Dungeon Quest - Random reward Chance seems fine but wasn't in the original 1.5

45-52 Dungeon Quest - Same as above

I feel as though you have nerfed the rates so harshly that it makes it a need to purchase things via ncoin for convenience. At the same time you haven't given the shop the tools it needs to do so. Also the prices are so drastic that it makes it uncomfortable to do so. (Seriously $5.00 US for 1000 Spiritshot?) 

The server build basically pushes you to level as fast as possible but yet that rates dont support the pace. The rates dont even support normal leveling. I understand what your trying to do, I just dont think your method is correct for this build because your shop doesnt even support the pace your pushing. It would have been much better if you would have just made this a sub based model and it would have fixed a lot of the sever side issues such as que times, stability, and so on. 

I also understand you dont have to use the scrolls. Thats very clear and we all understand that. At current I specifically just use them after clearing pks and or deaths in pvp and so on. 

It seems as though your setting  yourself up for failure whether its intended or not. I think also the final caveat and the most particular responses I've seen is don't use soul shot, make sure you level as a cp. etc. My response is the market in NA is different then what it is in other areas. You sampled this market years ago, you should be aware of the habits. Not sure why its such a surprise you are getting so many complaints on the way you're running the game this go around.


 

[Karnz]

1 hour ago, Piz said:

This is information that should have been disclosed from beginning of the server. Saying that this is how free to play servers are intended two (plus) months into the server shows the lack of clarity and honesty that has become all to familiar with NCSoft. When you announce a server "Retail Classic Experience" you set an expectation that it will be similar to what players have experienced in the past. At this point you all should clearly define what the rates truly are. The client at this point is hybrid of several versions of the classic client and has made it truly a nightmare to get a feel for how we should approach the server. 

You pretty much nailed it right there, this should have been made clear prior to launch or shortly there after before people started paying for their services.

I don't think it's unreasonably to think that there were going to be rates similar to Innova/Skelth and I wasn't even aware that there Classic servers with these so called "Free to play" rates.

I find NCWest's promotion of  their Classic version somewhat deceptive to say the least. 

[Piz]

28 minutes ago, Murad said:

Did i at any time step down low to your level of maturity and called u names like children do in school or simply wanted to know the maturity of who i was replying? yes or no

Do you know for a fact and u can provide any proof that i receive any special benefit or endorsed by ncsoft? yes or no

What is the nature of a company? is it not to make money? is it not to create revenue? Or do they have to spell it out for you and tell you what their intentions are?

Do you have a problem with the Free to play VIP 0 rates or the Free to play VIP 4 rates?  

Are the rates too hard for you? if they are you're welcome to try L2 Revolution.

Did u not just call me a forum troll, a white knight, child, rude, single minded? yes or no

And you're telling me to stop attacking everyone that has a different opinion on the rate/server state when you're clearly doing that which you're telling me NOT TO DO? yes or no?

Yes. By commenting negatively on every persons post and being a forum troll.

Yes. Which is what the Vip system is intended for. Steady incremental pay. with other beneficial objects in the ncoin store. 

Until a week ago the server ques where so long that if you wanted a reasonable play time you had to at least pay for VIP 1, I pay for VIP4 at the point the game is no longer free to play Its pay to play. It cost 15 dollars a month to maintain + the 50 dollars initially to get it.

The xp rates are fine no complaints. But yes when a level 20 mob drops the same adena as a level 40 mobs i have and issue. As would anyone that has actually played this game for years on end.

Yes you are all above. A forum troll, single minded and white knight. If anyone disagrees with rates here you coming blabbing about how everything is perfect. you obviously haven't played the game very long.

Im doing it to you because all the post you have at current are to this very nature. Trolling people for having a difference of opinion and obviously  White Knighting NCSoft. Sometimes you have to fight fire with fire. 

23 minutes ago, Murad said:

I'm sure Ncsoft can introduce VIP 5000 for players that are having a hard time such as yourself. Of course it won't be free to play anymore.But instead of asking for more VIP bonuses and playing the game with your wallet so you can feel proud about it. Why don't you try a game that is DESIGNED with a cashshop and paytowin in mind?

I actually never said i wanted to play the game with my wallet. Id rather play subscription  based game that has no cash shop at all.  This Version of Lineage 2 Classic  literally has a CASH SHOP AND IS DESIGNED TO BE PAY TO WIN. I simply stated that JP Taiwan and Korea all have Higher end VIP SYSTEM to balance out the F2P rates. Which we do not have. You literally referenced all of the above areas as reference but you know absolutely nothing about them. You just spout off random nonsense trying to get attention.