Summoner on overall, isn't weak as the game progress?

[Markiel]

I started to play the Aden version hopping for a good Summoner experience, at early it feels good, OK, but as I progress through the game, I felt that other classes do a better job grinding/farming. 

The Summoner it is Ok, but the Summon look somehow weak, I felt I was playing more as a Necro than a Summoner.

I'm playing as Spectral right now with dual, the last chronicle that I played with Summoner was the C4~C6 (after that was SH) and Classic, may I'm doing something wrong, but int that time, Summoner P.atk was a good build.

Any advise? Is really the Summoner just  a fancy Necro and that's it?

[SaintWalker]

Honestly? I'm going to say something that maybe some people would be afraid to say, especially on an official forum: Lineage 2 in the Aden version screwed over (a stronger curse word would go here) Summoners. Before anyone from the Guardian server shows up here saying "If it's so bad, if it's that bad... what about G11? Look at G11! Say that to G11!", I'm going to limit myself to talking about the class as a whole and not an exception, which is very suspicious by the way. The Summoner used to be worse, much worse, with the Assassin update it got better but it's still far from good. Comparing it to a Necromancer is gross just because it's a compliment to the Necromancer with such a comparison. And the heart of the matter is one question: STATS. The base STATS of Summons and in the case of Summoners the transfer of STATS to the active Summon. The Summoner should prioritize assisting its Summon over time and evolution and this should be its main source of attack. Which doesn't happen in Aden, so much so that all the Summoners we see in open maps are prioritizing damage. In the case of the Necromancer it's worse because in this version there are not numerous skills that would assist the character's performance with the Summon by its side. The Necromancer, which used to be the most complex class, an authentic hybrid here in Aden is nothing more than a crippled mage who can summon zombies. Summoner is still my favorite DPS class, always has been and probably always will be, but it needs urgent revision.

[Markiel]

5 hours ago, SaintWalker said:

Honestly? I'm going to say something that maybe some people would be afraid to say, especially on an official forum: Lineage 2 in the Aden version screwed over (a stronger curse word would go here) Summoners. Before anyone from the Guardian server shows up here saying "If it's so bad, if it's that bad... what about G11? Look at G11! Say that to G11!", I'm going to limit myself to talking about the class as a whole and not an exception, which is very suspicious by the way. The Summoner used to be worse, much worse, with the Assassin update it got better but it's still far from good. Comparing it to a Necromancer is gross just because it's a compliment to the Necromancer with such a comparison. And the heart of the matter is one question: STATS. The base STATS of Summons and in the case of Summoners the transfer of STATS to the active Summon. The Summoner should prioritize assisting its Summon over time and evolution and this should be its main source of attack. Which doesn't happen in Aden, so much so that all the Summoners we see in open maps are prioritizing damage. In the case of the Necromancer it's worse because in this version there are not numerous skills that would assist the character's performance with the Summon by its side. The Necromancer, which used to be the most complex class, an authentic hybrid here in Aden is nothing more than a crippled mage who can summon zombies. Summoner is still my favorite DPS class, always has been and probably always will be, but it needs urgent revision.

I compared to a Necro because the Summon only purpose right now is to transfer damage, I saw the Necro Summon attack, at PvP they usually petrifiy the Summon and Attack (In old versions). And my Summon keeps missing hits because of the low accuracy, with a average damage.

I agree that Summoner's Summon should be the main source of damage, but I've not felt that. By far, Summoner here is more a generic concept than it was in the past, I guess that is it, the best Summoner was probably one of the past chronicles and will never come back.

[Markiel]

For some reason I can't edit my post.

Edit: "...I never saw the Necro Summon attack..."

 

[realG11]

@SaintWalker

Suspect is your knowledge of L2 mechanics. If anyone needs advice about summoner pm me in game. I think I know more about it than this "expert"

[SaintWalker]

2 hours ago, realG11 said:

@SaintWalker

Suspect is your knowledge of L2 mechanics. If anyone needs advice about summoner pm me in game. I think I know more about it than this "expert"

@realG11 

If that's really the case, now that the ranking event is over, it might be helpful to consider taking some reading comprehension classes. My comment doesn't suggest such a negative criticism that would require a hostile response, let alone a personal attack on my intelligence. I'd like to emphasize that encountering an exception alone can generate suspicions, whether positive or negative. And since it has achieved and maintained the top spot in the ranking, even facing classes like Assassin and Soulhound, that achievement is also worth being curious about. If you could reconsider your hostile tone, I'm sure many of us would appreciate it if you could share your opinion and clarify the central issue of the topic.

[Markiel]

3 hours ago, realG11 said:

@SaintWalker

Suspect is your knowledge of L2 mechanics. If anyone needs advice about summoner pm me in game. I think I know more about it than this "expert"

A few questions:
- How well your Summon can handle in the grind?
- It's the main source of your damage?
- P. Atk or M. Atk Build?
- Arcana, Spectre or Elemental?
- Did your Summon can land a hit at PvP?

[SaintWalker]

First of all, I wanna say that most of my practical experience is pre-Assassin update. I used to play as a Summoner as my main character on the Blackbird server. Right now, I started a new Alt Spectral Master, but since he's still pretty low level (around 85), I don't wanna give my opinion on the practical side post-Assassin update yet. However, I've been really interested in the update since the first rumors on Korean servers and I've been researching, reading material, watching videos... So, here are the answers:

Quote

- How well your Summon can handle in the grind?

Quote

- It's the main source of your damage?

I was playing with an Arcana Lord and he was a great damage dealer, we shared similar damage output. However, due to his modus operandi, he would attract mobs during PvE. Even though he wasn't a tank, the mobs hardly turned their attention towards me once we started attacking. The same happened with the Spectral Master, whether I was using Nightshade or Spectral Lord. Of course, with their respective proportions and intrinsic characteristics, each Summon had different damage output, performance, and behaviors.
 

Quote

- P. Atk or M. Atk Build?

First, I built a fighter/melee build with Arcana Lord, but later I switched to a Mage build. I made sure to test both and found that the Mage build was more effective. With Spectral Master, I went straight for a Mage build based on my experience with Arcana Lord and research, and stuck with it.
 

Quote

- Arcana, Spectre or Elemental?

Before the Assassin update, I played with 2 Summoner classes: Arcana Lord and Spectral Master. I started with Arcana Lord but due to some issues, I switched to Spectral Master.
 

Quote

- Did your Summon can land a hit at PvP?

We have come to the point that I would like to address and that there would be an exchange of ideas, opinions, a healthy dialogue. I changed classes from Arcana Lord to Spectral Master due to a few factors:
1) The defenses of the Summon, whether they were M.Def or P.Def, were very low already in PvE 85+ and in PvP the Summon hardly withstood 2 hits from an opponent of equal level;
2) The Summon's attack in PvE was proportional to mine, and together we were very effective in that situation. But when it came to PvP, it dropped drastically. When I switched to Spectral Master, I started using Nightshade more, and due to its characteristics and the prediction of the damage that would be inflicted, I left it more as an assistant, meaning that in terms of damage, it became irrelevant;

I'd like to make it clear once again that my goal, whether in-game or here on the forum with my comments and private messages, has always been to help. I've always enjoyed conversing and Lineage 2 has always been an opportunity to exchange ideas, experiences, and knowledge. That's why I've always enjoyed forums, and with the release of the new Guardian server and update, I encounter new players every day, both in the game and in the version. And the part of the game I enjoy the most is conversation, exchanging ideas, and helping out. Whenever I see a message in the all-chat asking for help or tips, I make an effort to respond and help. I don't expect anything in return, never have. I hope G11 can reconsider and, if possible, give us their opinion on Summoners after the Assassin update. I would sincerely appreciate it.

[Markiel]

54 minutes ago, SaintWalker said:

... 2) The Summon's attack in PvE was proportional to mine, and together we were very effective in that situation. But when it came to PvP, it dropped drastically. When I switched to Spectral Master, I started using Nightshade more, and due to its characteristics and the prediction of the damage that would be inflicted, I left it more as an assistant, meaning that in terms of damage, it became irrelevant ...

I agree that at full P. Atk my damage and the damage of my Summons was equal and worked well for some time, but sadly my Summon can't keep the pace as the same rate I do, it's like I move 2 steps forward and he does one. I reached a point where any DD can grind faster than me even with similar gear. 

I'll switch to M. Atk and hope for some buff to summons, if not, I'll drop it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Markiel]

@SaintWalker
Do you know the state of the Summoners on Classic and the Main Game?