Daggers Useless on Aden

[Infid3l]

I didn’t want to flame until I reached the 3rd class change, but now that I have I have to ask WTH! It’s bad enough being a melee  class in this game yet none of the skills for daggers have the half-kill chance which makes pve for daggers bearable. Moreover, the cool down for shadow step is 30 seconds on Aden while on Live and Classic is significantly less than that and it reduces the ability of the class to actually be what it’s supposed to be which is an assassin.  
Forget the fact that I literally ran out of mp fighting a bladedancer for 5 minutes not being able to kill it while it not being able to kill me. On top of the a flipping meat pie orc with a dex of 30 is somehow capable of chain stunning me even being 5 lvls lower than me. I have to buy 40k in hp pots a day to hunt mobs 5 lvls below me and me gear doesn’t suck.  
 

I should be used to this since I have been a le dagger since beta and it took them forever to become relevant, but why would you nerf skills that are a part of a character that actually make it a solo class in a game that is supposed to focus on solo hunting?

[bensoy921]

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[RhaegarStark]

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im GH but in this version of the game that class s**ks

[Innis]

13 hours ago, Infid3l said:

I didn’t want to flame until I reached the 3rd class change, but now that I have I have to ask WTH! It’s bad enough being a melee  class in this game yet none of the skills for daggers have the half-kill chance which makes pve for daggers bearable. Moreover, the cool down for shadow step is 30 seconds on Aden while on Live and Classic is significantly less than that and it reduces the ability of the class to actually be what it’s supposed to be which is an assassin.  
Forget the fact that I literally ran out of mp fighting a bladedancer for 5 minutes not being able to kill it while it not being able to kill me. On top of the a flipping meat pie orc with a dex of 30 is somehow capable of chain stunning me even being 5 lvls lower than me. I have to buy 40k in hp pots a day to hunt mobs 5 lvls below me and me gear doesn’t suck.  
 

I should be used to this since I have been a le dagger since beta and it took them forever to become relevant, but why would you nerf skills that are a part of a character that actually make it a solo class in a game that is supposed to focus on solo hunting?

Ok so...first things first, welcome to my life. Been playin' GH on Essence for almost 1 year before rerolling from it cause DKs and orcs were eating me alive even with lower levels/gear. BESIDE THAT.

You are kinda "crying" for the wrong reasons there, pointing the issues on the PVE aspect while all the issue there are PVP wise and not PVE.

So i've been XPing both a WR and a GH here cause i know about the upcoming rework for daggers that's gonna make them way stronger than now and i can tell you that the WR is garbage. Dmg is way lower than GH (ofc) but he doesn't survive at all. He dies on average 3-4 times per day while my GH is almost 77 (no boost XP) and basically he dies once every 1-2 days. 

Also what's the matter with that 30 DEX and chain stun you talking about? First of all stun resistance used to be CON based and not DEX...not to mention you probably have no resist stun. AAAND that basically resist stun is around useless since, for now, even with MJ all classes that can stun (warriors + orcs) will land it like 70%+ as they have passives to boost land rate. 

Your shadow step is 30 seconds with slow effect and it no longer stuns/cancel target, if you didn't notice. You lost switch/trick as those skills are no longer working for pvp as well as Adventurers lost Mirage (skill is still there bbut effect changed). Half kill no longer works for daggers which is the main issue in PVP and not PVE as, for example, GHs are oneshotting/twoshotting most of the mobs on their level. 

Essence server or Aden server as it's named on NA, lacks of class balance. They nerfed to the bone daggers to not make them OP anymore but created monsters like titans/tyrants or DKs, which makes 0 sense. Reason why the whole game was broken and unplayable, if we ignore the P2W abuse and totally out of sense costs. 

Just hang on there, korean rework for daggers was released a few months ago so sooner or later it'll be worth playing daggers again. You probably wont do it on top top level as you'll need books that are either super expensive or really rare to get via IG drops. But even w/o those books you'll see an overall improvement for light elfs as you will learn the passive you never got: critical damage. Light elfs will get around 400 more crt dmg power + 30% extra crt dmg from that passive alone. 

[Infid3l]

Nicely put. I guess I’m just venting a bit. I remember paying the subscription rate for this game before it became free to play (haha) and even though leveling sucked I was never spending more adena than I made per day which is the case at the moment. The bs with having to craft all higher skill spellbooks, the material drops you can’t sell back to the store or trade to a dorf because their imprinted for some reason, lack of area’s for meelees to hunt without having to run all over the place, getting pked by meat pie orcs so they can pull all the mobs in the room and zero equipment drop penalty if we do decide to kill them when they’re red. The fact the guards in town don’t attack  reds on site and they can still interact with Npc’s. I really don’t understand wtf designer’s were thinking. 
 

I dunno, I was really excited about this release. My Live acct is 5 lvls off of the top players which means I get 2 shotted by those players during sieges. I was looking forward to starting with everyone and not being gimped by my level. It’s a disappointment, Amazon’s New World is being released the end of the month I will probably start playing that because Aden might be an okay game but NCSoft is all about “how do we drain everyone’s $$” not content.

[jackynikola]

Uh leveling is notsuper hrd, but pvp is a joke hahahah. there are videos where TH is trying to kill bot Sorcer. He couldnt kill him for like 3 minutes ah. Worst thing is that TH was super fgeard in compare to Sorcer

[Innis]

18 hours ago, Infid3l said:

Nicely put. I guess I’m just venting a bit. I remember paying the subscription rate for this game before it became free to play (haha) and even though leveling sucked I was never spending more adena than I made per day which is the case at the moment. The bs with having to craft all higher skill spellbooks, the material drops you can’t sell back to the store or trade to a dorf because their imprinted for some reason, lack of area’s for meelees to hunt without having to run all over the place, getting pked by meat pie orcs so they can pull all the mobs in the room and zero equipment drop penalty if we do decide to kill them when they’re red. The fact the guards in town don’t attack  reds on site and they can still interact with Npc’s. I really don’t understand wtf designer’s were thinking. 
 

I dunno, I was really excited about this release. My Live acct is 5 lvls off of the top players which means I get 2 shotted by those players during sieges. I was looking forward to starting with everyone and not being gimped by my level. It’s a disappointment, Amazon’s New World is being released the end of the month I will probably start playing that because Aden might be an okay game but NCSoft is all about “how do we drain everyone’s $$” not content.

The game has changed a lot, sadly, for the worst. But it's not NCWest fault, not directly. Since they are publishers only they can't modify much of the game w/o Koreans approvement, otherwise they'd risk a license retirement and goodbye NCWest. This is directly an issue coming from Koreans and the bad managment of the game release globally. Prices of Coins are not so balanced, classes are totally bleeped up cause there is no balance between them (thanks god reworks are getting closer and more, so sooner or later all classes will be worth to play) and the p2w abuse to be able to play is insane. 

 

14 hours ago, jackynikola said:

Uh leveling is notsuper hrd, but pvp is a joke hahahah. there are videos where TH is trying to kill bot Sorcer. He couldnt kill him for like 3 minutes ah. Worst thing is that TH was super fgeard in compare to Sorcer

And this is the issue with classes here. Due to daggers losing most of their perks, they basically became unplayable. The only one worth playing is, more or less, the GH cause it lands damages...TH and WR are worthless cause their dmg is low and they cannot burst anyone...they lost too many skills and power. The p2w abyss that the game created makes it so all you need is a visa and nothing else. You could literally go afk with autohunt and you'd be fine and even winning pvps if you spent enough.

[jackynikola]

How are you building in this moment? All CON? heavy set?

[Infid3l]

I put 3 points into con and have a +4dex -4con tat. I’m probably going to do a +4 men - 4 int for mana regen and I’m not sure what I’m going to do with the last one. I can’t bring myself to take -4 str for more dex and seems like con is more important than anything because of stun resistance. This has been an issue forever with GH’s it’s like NCSoft can’t write the stat algorithm correctly. Yes they have a high str but their con is crap and dex is less than WR there really shouldn’t be any reason outside of chance that a GH wins this fight. TBH the best dagger should be the Human atm because con seems to be better than anything yet somehow they messed that algorithm as well.

[jackynikola]

I reed of esence forums that they tested all variations. And they concluded that only +COn is worth. STR doesnt give much dmg, dex is just LOl and without CON you will be one shoted from any class. They recomended heavy set since Evasion doesnt really mather too much.

[Vladbila]

Heavy set +shield that is best option now, because shield does not have Evasion penalty anymore, later heavy+sigil. Top daggers always use +STR - DEX, but that is because they have infinite mana and just spam skills. Atm I am not using any tattoos, and put all my stats into DEX. The dagger update will have a DEX based bonus starting from 65 dex, but that is after the tattoo update.  That is not why I chose DEX is just because now auto-attack has priority over skills, since skills do not land every time.

Problem is now we also do not have any crit damage boosters (dolls, hero circlet, etc), even focus skills are basically impossible to get (on Elcadia 1 book is about 25kk adena). 

So yea daggers are trash now. After a few Mastercard events the situation will improve

 

EDIT: here are the details for DEX based buff (TH)

rogues gain additional bonuses based on agility with their unique abilities. Apply additional abilities based on their current DEX value.

DEX 65-74
- Dagger Attack +10%
- Vital Stab Success Chance +20%

DEX 75-84
- Dagger Attack +20%
- Vital Stab Success Chance +30% When
using <Cyclusion>, there is a 50% chance to activate <Cyclusion: Enhancement>, which does not cancel stealth with the stealth release skill

DEX 85+
- Dagger Attack +30%
- Vital Stab Success Chance +40% When
using <Cyclusion>, there is a 100% chance to activate <Cyclusion: Enhancement>, which does not cancel stealth with the stealth release skill

learning conditions

• Character Lv: 76
• Required SP: 0

[Infid3l]

8 hours ago, Vladbila said:

Heavy set +shield that is best option now, because shield does not have Evasion penalty anymore, later heavy+sigil. Top daggers always use +STR - DEX, but that is because they have infinite mana and just spam skills. Atm I am not using any tattoos, and put all my stats into DEX. The dagger update will have a DEX based bonus starting from 65 dex, but that is after the tattoo update.  That is not why I chose DEX is just because now auto-attack has priority over skills, since skills do not land every time.

Problem is now we also do not have any crit damage boosters (dolls, hero circlet, etc), even focus skills are basically impossible to get (on Elcadia 1 book is about 25kk adena). 

So yea daggers are trash now. After a few Mastercard events the situation will improve

 

EDIT: here are the details for DEX based buff (TH)

rogues gain additional bonuses based on agility with their unique abilities. Apply additional abilities based on their current DEX value.

DEX 65-74
- Dagger Attack +10%
- Vital Stab Success Chance +20%

DEX 75-84
- Dagger Attack +20%
- Vital Stab Success Chance +30% When
using <Cyclusion>, there is a 50% chance to activate <Cyclusion: Enhancement>, which does not cancel stealth with the stealth release skill

DEX 85+
- Dagger Attack +30%
- Vital Stab Success Chance +40% When
using <Cyclusion>, there is a 100% chance to activate <Cyclusion: Enhancement>, which does not cancel stealth with the stealth release skill

learning conditions

• Character Lv: 76
• Required SP: 0

Yea, I don’t know whose idea it was with crafting lvl 4 buffs and high tier skills, but I almost quit after 76 because of it. The adena cost alone is bad enough but then you have to gather materials as well. I don’t see how wearing heavy armor helps because we don’t have those masteries. I was planning on using the majestic set . The levels of Dex listed on the explanation would require you to be over lvl 100 unless I’m missing something besides tat’s and the point you get per lvl after 76

[Vladbila]

1 hour ago, Infid3l said:

Yea, I don’t know whose idea it was with crafting lvl 4 buffs and high tier skills, but I almost quit after 76 because of it. The adena cost alone is bad enough but then you have to gather materials as well. I don’t see how wearing heavy armor helps because we don’t have those masteries. I was planning on using the majestic set . The levels of Dex listed on the explanation would require you to be over lvl 100 unless I’m missing something besides tat’s and the point you get per lvl after 76

Ok so some quick explanation:

I was talking about skills that require magic tablets , 1 magic tablets costs at least 750k, 31 tablets needed to learn a skill.

The skillbooks listed in special craft are not eligible for crafting unless you have level 5 or higher clan, because you need Hardin page note.  Normally in special craft you have 2 options : 

1. Craft using mats 

2. Craft using giran seals (giran seals are a special currency in L2 Essence/Aden that is available only via l2coins)

Light armor mastery in daggers is pretty much useless , heavy+shield is a much better option.

Stat bonuses do not only come from stat points but also  a wide variety of items : Dragon Belt, Venir Talisman, Dolls,  Augments, etc. Also Koreans received a patch that included a tattoo/dyes boost, so probably 100 dex is not impossible at level 90/91 what is the average level in KR.

[Innis]

Ok wait, let me enlight you guys a bit.

About dyes:
Daggers are not getting much out of STR unless they hit 70 or 90 points, which cannot bbe done w/o p2w items and high level like 87-88+.
So for PVP you can go +CON -DEX and +MEN -INT so you can stand a little longer during PVP. 
The new stat was not tested yet, as far as i know, so don't know if boosting DEX is worth it. It does seems like it but no clue, cause STR 90 gives 200 crt dmg on skills + skill power 10% while DEX is dagger dmg +20% (?) and blow land rate...altho blow land rate ACTUALLY works on DEX so just having so much DEX will make ur blow land almost 100% (almost cause afaik blow land rate is capped at 90%).

About armor:
You go light. There's no heavy option UNLESS you have the new Protection set. Not because heavy is better for p.def and stats but cause of the skill they trigger. For a few seconds you will get dmg received capped to 4000. As for shield or sigil, this also depends.
First of all, sigils are 'offensive' (crt rate from sigil also increases crt rate of skills) while shield is defensive. 
If you have NM shield or MJ sigil, most likely Sigil is better...BUT if you got the Shield of Revenge or Sigil of -i don't remember the name-, the shield is better due to the skill that triggers and gives you extra p.def/m.def +15%. 

Dagger current situation is that only GH is playable in pvp cause he got dmg passives, but no survivability so if he can't burst he's basically useless. Not to mention that all you need is 1 tank and the dagger is worthless cause he wont do dmg on tank. Low dmg in general but most likely he wont even land skills.

So in general:
Unless you have Protection armors, go light main part + MJ heavy boots/gloves for atk spd + DC or tallum helm robe for extra p.def/m.def.
Dyes +CON +MEN for pvp.

When you get HIGH level and HIGH p2w items so you can trigger AT LEAST 70 STR, then it's worth changing setup. If you could hit 90 STR before change is ever better as you will have a huge amount of dmg boost. Also @Vladbila those boost you see are passive for all daggers. TH personal buff is on active dmg skills and 2 passives: 1 modify Bluff effect/power while the other passive counter pull/chain skills. 

[Innis]

40 minutes ago, Vladbila said:

at bonuses do not only come from stat points but also  a wide variety of items : Dragon Belt, Venir Talisman, Dolls,  Augments, etc. Also Koreans received a patch that included a tattoo/dyes boost, so probably 100 dex is not impossible at level 90/91 what is the average level in KR.

He meant level 100, not 100 dex. Altho going higher than 85 DEX would be worthless at the new passive stops at 85...But even at that point i'm not sure it's worth it. Perhaps best thing to do would try to hit 70/90 STR and then try to get DEX to 65/75...is it possible? i don't know. I didn't make maths yet with full P2W items and what you need to get so many stat points...75 DEX was easly doable tho with average/high P2W and lv 87/90 if i don't remember wrong.