L2Aden Support Costs (in $)

[AliceInWunderland]

TLDR: Keeping up 530% bonus exp with buff scrolls (patk, pdef) will cost roughly cost $55 a week ($220 a month) playing consistently 24 hours per day. 

For a month: (@ 1 NCoin = $0.0125)

$75.04     Scrolls (Buying every 4 days)
 $90.00     Sayha Pack (buying every 5 days)
 $57.60     Soulshots (can buy whenever assuming you have NCoin)

TOTAL:  $222.64 

Remember paying $15 a month in classic? 

WHERE did these estimates come from?

Well, I did some basic modeling, assuming:

How fast one kills (MOB kills per minute and per hour) 
Soulshot usage (roughly 3000 SS per hour)
Sayha Degeneration
Scroll Time Duration
Sayha's Storm Usage & Sayha's Blessing Usage
(Spirit Ore - have to buy in game and generate adena in game)

Of course this doesn't include costs for Agathions, or any of the other character enhancing gear from the store OR finding creative ways to buy the stuff one/you want[s].

Now, here are some issues with what's going on:

Items like patk, pdef scrolls - doesn't matter what you do or where you are. After 20 minutes, they're bye bye and you have to refresh. Same with Sayha's Storm to get that additional 200% xp/sp bonus.

Resources that generate/degenerate due to MOB death (Sayha, Lamp, Crafting Points, etc.) are affected by kill speed.

So for the items that have a time component to them, here's the challenge people have to decide for themselves:

Is it worth it to spend this kind of money given hunting ground density? Or are we literally throwing money away? If we're throwing it away and we know we are, ok, no problem.

But I guess where I am ultimately going with all this is to quantitatively draw a picture that directly affects the wallet.

I am still surveying if it's worth it. I am on the fence. I like the auto-hunt feature, but I don't know if it's worth $222 a month for me to maintain that. That is just ME. I think of all the other things I could buy. 

P.S. I don't know why there is a straight up linear growth rate on exp to next level. With diminishing returns, I really think this should be a non-linear growth rate, something in the realm of ln(x). There's other things that could be tweaked. 

I mean, sure, everyone has their ideal game. Will anyone ever find it? Maybe.

 

[Okay]

not worth spending in this broken game to kill mobs.

[AliceInWunderland]

Some notes:

Modeling based on a 71 melee toon with VR, killing about 10 MOBS per minute (6 seconds from encountering (running to) MOB and defeating it). AND the player density is fairly low. It's not Silent Valley. Multiply everything by 2 or 3 if you are in SV because of the density issues. Extracting benefit from items with time use constraints can make one irritated if they feel like their resources are just being siphoned away.

The VR is an important factor  I forgot because HPot usage is negligible at best.

The big eaters of resources are obviously the SS, Spirit Ore (problem if you don't have some sort of Sayha's up), and Sayha Consumption when it's up.

Yes, there is free stuff in the game, I know this. I used a lot of it to get far without spending $222 where I am at now. But, if I want to sustain this pace and bonus, it's gonna cost a lot per month. 

 

[T0kyo]

And how do you like this math:
My char farm about 20kk per day, sometimes a little more, sometimes a little less (no one has canceled random).
I spend 1.5kk on consumables and so far this is enough for me 24/7 + 200k dungeon +300k devian quest +some adena on tp's and sometimes on RC.
I don’t buy Sayha, because I am a spoiler and I have enough of it from random craft + drop grace potions + solo rb + cookies + free gifts by NCwest
That is, a day, if you like to translate everything into dollars, I farm about 10 L1boxes = ~25$ per day i have profit. And I farm with Aden's weapons And the first B item appeared on lvl 77 only

Why spend if you can not spend but farm?
What's your problem ?

[Infid3l]

18 minutes ago, T0kyo said:

And how do you like this math:
My char farm about 20kk per day, sometimes a little more, sometimes a little less (no one has canceled random).
I spend 1.5kk on consumables and so far this is enough for me 24/7 + 200k dungeon +300k devian quest +some adena on tp's and sometimes on RC.
I don’t buy Sayha, because I am a spoiler and I have enough of it from random craft + drop grace potions + solo rb + cookies + free gifts by NCwest
That is, a day, if you like to translate everything into dollars, I farm about 10 L1boxes = ~25$ per day i have profit. And I farm with Aden's weapons And the first B item appeared on lvl 77 only

Why spend if you can not spend but farm?
What's your problem ?

Wait a sec… what solo Raid Bosses? Random Craft gives you 2 gp’s for 10k every 24 hours, and do you know someone at PlayNCW that’s sending you special gifts because gp’s aren’t offered any longer.

[T0kyo]

1 minute ago, Infid3l said:

Wait a sec… what solo Raid Bosses?

Individual RB gives to you 1-3 sayha's every 2h.

Maybe you have 1 RC per 24h, i have more)

freegifts its like a 350 cookies from oly, from event boxes etc.

 

[AliceInWunderland]

37 minutes ago, T0kyo said:

And how do you like this math:
My char farm about 20kk per day, sometimes a little more, sometimes a little less (no one has canceled random).
I spend 1.5kk on consumables and so far this is enough for me 24/7 + 200k dungeon +300k devian quest +some adena on tp's and sometimes on RC.
I don’t buy Sayha, because I am a spoiler and I have enough of it from random craft + drop grace potions + solo rb + cookies + free gifts by NCwest
That is, a day, if you like to translate everything into dollars, I farm about 10 L1boxes = ~25$ per day i have profit. And I farm with Aden's weapons And the first B item appeared on lvl 77 only

Why spend if you can not spend but farm?
What's your problem ?

You're missing the point. 

Based on your anectodal evidence here, it's clear you are not just starting out.

Some questions:

1. How long have you played Aden?
2. How much money (Fiat Currency, to be clear) have you spent?
3. How much do you currently spend per week?
4. How many toons are you running? (Alts to farm, etc.)

If you've managed this with zero stuff from the store, hat is off to you.

But, some real data would be appreciated. I am guessing you are an extreme outlier. Otherwise, your boasting is just that - boasting. 

[AliceInWunderland]

2 minutes ago, AliceInWunderland said:

You're missing the point. 

Based on your anectodal evidence here, it's clear you are not just starting out.

Some questions:

1. How long have you played Aden?
2. How much money (Fiat Currency, to be clear) have you spent?
3. How much do you currently spend per week?
4. How many toons are you running? (Alts to farm, etc.)

If you've managed this with zero stuff from the store, hat is off to you.

But, some real data would be appreciated. I am guessing you are an extreme outlier. Otherwise, your boasting is just that - boasting. 

Would also like to know if you're completely self-buffed with spells, and do not use the PAtk/PDef Scrolls that are rewards here and there OR can be bought from the store.

[T0kyo]

1. How long have you played Aden? - started on 3rd day after opening
2. How much money (Fiat Currency, to be clear) have you spent? - around 100$. On deluxe pack and sayha's on start, cuz i farm on AoE from 64 till 76 lvl and all the adena I got I spent on HP potions.
3. How much do you currently spend per week? - 0
4. How many toons are you running? (Alts to farm, etc.) - 0, i play just on main chart. I don't even have a trader

 

8 minutes ago, AliceInWunderland said:

Would also like to know if you're completely self-buffed with spells, and do not use the PAtk/PDef Scrolls that are rewards here and there OR can be bought from the store.

I use it only when necessary (individual bosses for example) , or when purposefully I want to increase my exp/h.

 

I, like everyone else on this server, passed the path 1-76, without adena, without things, my locations were also filled with people, I constantly had to be a PK, or take people away from the spot. 

[AliceInWunderland]

1 minute ago, T0kyo said:

1. How long have you played Aden? - started on 3rd day after opening
2. How much money (Fiat Currency, to be clear) have you spent? - around 100$. On deluxe pack and sayha's on start, cuz i farm on AoE from 64 till 76 lvl and all the adena I got I spent on HP potions.
3. How much do you currently spend per week? - 0
4. How many toons are you running? (Alts to farm, etc.) - 0, i play just on main chart. I don't even have a trader

 

I use it only when necessary (individual bosses for example) , or when purposefully I want to increase my exp/h.

 

I, like everyone else on this server, passed the path 1-76, without adena, without things, my locations were also filled with people, I constantly had to be a PK, or take people away from the spot. 

Well, you've found a recipe that "works." If only L2 could all be spoilers. Ha. 

How many hours a day are you playing (pardon me, how many hours is the game playing itself for you?) We're all doing it, so yeah.

Your example here shows that some classes have some distinct advantages over others. 

I've spent about $100 myself thus far and on many of the same things as you. Sayha's stuff, buff scrolls, and some L2coin to have for necessary situations. I've only been playing this incarnation since 9/12/2021 and I've been letting it run about 16-20 hours a day. I monitor what goes on. I rarely afk farm/hunt.

[AliceInWunderland]

9 minutes ago, T0kyo said:

1. How long have you played Aden? - started on 3rd day after opening
2. How much money (Fiat Currency, to be clear) have you spent? - around 100$. On deluxe pack and sayha's on start, cuz i farm on AoE from 64 till 76 lvl and all the adena I got I spent on HP potions.
3. How much do you currently spend per week? - 0
4. How many toons are you running? (Alts to farm, etc.) - 0, i play just on main chart. I don't even have a trader

 

I use it only when necessary (individual bosses for example) , or when purposefully I want to increase my exp/h.

 

I, like everyone else on this server, passed the path 1-76, without adena, without things, my locations were also filled with people, I constantly had to be a PK, or take people away from the spot. 

Also, and I should have mentioned - I did not factor in game rewards from quests/daily's and so on, which, over long epochs of time, can see great variations in patterns, especially in money spent. 

Reason I bring this up is you mentioned Oly: there are some nice rewards from the Oly quests. But, you can't get them without winning. I am guessing at your level, you have a much easier time in Oly compared to someone in their low 70's: no A-grade, no enchants, etc. Point being, some of these rewards that can be earned require good gear to survive.

 

[muash]

32 minutes ago, AliceInWunderland said:

You're missing the point. 

Based on your anectodal evidence here, it's clear you are not just starting out.

Some questions:

1. How long have you played Aden?
2. How much money (Fiat Currency, to be clear) have you spent?
3. How much do you currently spend per week?
4. How many toons are you running? (Alts to farm, etc.)

If you've managed this with zero stuff from the store, hat is off to you.

But, some real data would be appreciated. I am guessing you are an extreme outlier. Otherwise, your boasting is just that - boasting. 

1. played essence on EU for 1.5 years, im on aden after 10 days it started.
2. zero money spent, all farmed and buyin l1k from ppl
1. 0.
4. 6 accounts running

[AliceInWunderland]

Just now, muash said:

1. played essence on EU for 1.5 years, im on aden after 10 days it started.
2. zero money spent, all farmed and buyin l1k from ppl
1. 0.
4. 6 accounts running

Thanks for the data.

[T0kyo]

6 minutes ago, AliceInWunderland said:

If only L2 could all be spoilers. Ha.

Most can farm more, the question is the desire and ability to implement this. It's not about the profession at all. Any class will farm about the same on the same boost only on auto-hunt. For example, if im go in Toi 2 and will stay there 24 h on autohunt, i just get around 11-12kk adena (at this moment ). Therefore, you need to constantly do something (individual bosses for example). 

 

[AliceInWunderland]

2 minutes ago, T0kyo said:

Most can farm more, the question is the desire and ability to implement this. It's not about the profession at all. Any class will farm about the same on the same boost only on auto-hunt. For example, if im go in Toi 2 and will stay there 24 h on autohunt, i just get around 11-12kk adena (at this moment ). Therefore, you need to constantly do something (individual bosses for example). 

 

Well, earlier you had said:

"I don’t buy Sayha, because I am a spoiler and I have enough of it from random craft + drop grace potions + solo rb + cookies + free gifts by NCwest"

That seemed as if you were saying you don't need to buy Sayha because of your class.

Ok, so you're doing about 600K adena per hour on average it looks like. At that adena velocity, yeah, a lot seems cheap I would imagine (Marginal Utility of a an additional dollar/adena).

[T0kyo]

The only thing you need to learn is that you should not be equal to TOP players. They have their own game, their own possibilities. And they invest a lot of resources, both time and money.
It is worthwhile to understand your capabilities and build on them, and it is difficult to achieve something in 1-2 weeks. Yes, you will not be in the top, and moreover, you will be far enough from it, but there is a fairly large layer of mid-level players who play without invest, or with little invest.

Everything comes with time.
Tops spend money to get things done faster. Someone spends a lot of time to avoid spending money.

[AliceInWunderland]

Just now, T0kyo said:

The only thing you need to learn is that you should not be equal to TOP players. They have their own game, their own possibilities. And they invest a lot of resources, both time and money.
It is worthwhile to understand your capabilities and build on them, and it is difficult to achieve something in 1-2 weeks. Yes, you will not be in the top, and moreover, you will be far enough from it, but there is a fairly large layer of mid-level players who play without invest, or with little invest.

Everything comes with time.
Tops spend money to get things done faster. Someone spends a lot of time to avoid spending money.

Yes, tradeoffs are real. I am aware.  Believe me, I prefer to do self-sustaining stuff IF the system really allows for it. If you have to be like Neo from the Matrix, well, that's a tall order.

[T0kyo]

2 minutes ago, AliceInWunderland said:

Ok, so you're doing about 600K adena per hour on average it looks like. At that adena velocity, yeah, a lot seems cheap I would imagine (Marginal Utility of a an additional dollar/adena).

Exactly, everything is not expensive here. Especially now, especially boxes, it is worth investing all your adena in them.
When I started, I set myself the task of getting level 76 as quickly as possible in order to start farming. That's why im exp on aoe 64-76 earned 0 adena, because bought with all the money HP pots for farm.

[T0kyo]

Well, if you like the market, you can buy cheaper and sell more expensive.

[AliceInWunderland]

1 minute ago, T0kyo said:

Exactly, everything is not expensive here. Especially now, especially boxes, it is worth investing all your adena in them.
When I started, I set myself the task of getting level 76 as quickly as possible in order to start farming. That's why im exp on aoe 64-76 earned 0 adena, because bought with all the money HP pots for farm.

As far as the L2 Boxes go: you don't need to buy adena, but others inevitably will. Hard to say how adena inflation will play out but here's the point:

Yes, you could buy all the L2 boxes you could get your hands now and that protects against inflation. Within 2 days I saw L2 1000K boxes buy shops go from 1.8M adena to 1.65M adena in under a day. So buying them now while there isn't an ocean of adena sloshing around is a good thing. The spread between buy/sell shops appears to be about 100K, which is just a little under 10% profit margin assuming you bought low/sold high.

The ultimate problem with any in-game currency is that it literally just sits in people's banks as if it was under a mattress. There are no mechanisms to literally "keep up with inflation" if the adena farmers come to town except to buy more adena.

This is the problem Emerging Markets have borrowing in US Dollars. They have zero way to absorb shocks like that.

I digress. Interesting data, I appreciate it.

[T0kyo]

At the moment, predict an increase in prices for L2boxes, because we don't know when p2w event will start. And you can play with prices in the market on some more stable things, BW/Doom items, Magic Tablets for example. (this is not a path to action, but thoughts for reflection)

[Enthused]

Aden servers cost at minimum $150/month if you want to be remotely competitive, and that's just from a purely maintenance perspective.

Once the p2w items start landing on the store, you can add around $250/month on top of that.

[Akuniwa]

Spectraldancer lvl 80 here

1. How long have you played Aden? - day 1 player
2. How much money (Fiat Currency, to be clear) have you spent? -25$ for the pre-launch pack.
3. How much do you currently spend per week? - 0
4. How many toons are you running? (Alts to farm, etc.) - 0, i play just on main chart.

currenly i have my pc  on 24/7, all days in the morning refill my sayhas' grace at max and still have 524 cookies, 164 sayha's blessing, over 1000 ss tickets weekly and not remember last time i bought spirit ores. how? Well i have to admit ncwest was very generous with the freebies (alienware code were they gift you a 30 days sayha's will, the banditkit code, ivory tower event and now the oly one)

How can you get sayha's grace as f2p player?

first, if you want keep farming 24/7 you need invest all you adena in Sayha's grace and consumable bundle (50 pot and 10 bunble daily = 3kk) you adena always will be close to 0 until lvl 60 atleast you lucky enough to get drops and sell it.

After that you can start to kill individual bosses, they always drop a sayha's chest where you can get 1-3 pots and sayha's benefactions (sayha's grace consumption -10% for 20 min). BUT, is at lvl 76 where you can give yourself a break from buying the sayha's pots just for the primaveral island and the new daily mission.

tips: Always enter trascendent dungeon when you get sayha's blessing (the little spark)

[Powerlifter]

On 9/19/2021 at 1:17 AM, T0kyo said:

Most can farm more, the question is the desire and ability to implement this. It's not about the profession at all. Any class will farm about the same on the same boost only on auto-hunt. For example, if im go in Toi 2 and will stay there 24 h on autohunt, i just get around 11-12kk adena (at this moment ). Therefore, you need to constantly do something (individual bosses for example). 

 

how do you survive the damage they deal there? You should be spending tons of pots

[AliceInWunderland]

On 9/19/2021 at 7:50 AM, Enthused said:

Aden servers cost at minimum $150/month if you want to be remotely competitive, and that's just from a purely maintenance perspective.

Once the p2w items start landing on the store, you can add around $250/month on top of that.

Yep, these numbers are in tune with what I am seeing/forecasting - JUST for maintenance. Doesn't include bells and whistles.

So, that's $37.50 a week.

I am kinda bummed those Patk/Pdef scrolls can't be bought in large quantities in the NCoin Store anymore. For 750 NCoin, you got 300 of each, plus 200 30% EXP Scrolls.

Now, if you want to buy them, they're 1M adena for a mere pack of 10! Well, that's a stealth price gouging tactic, and there are zero supply issues with digital items unless their creators impose one.

-----(only read if you care about your resources and find this stuff interesting)-----

So if 5 Ncoin = 50K adena (Sayha Blessing Prices in NCoin and LCoin[adena] Shops) This sets it to 1 NCoin = 10K Adena

And 1 NCoin = $0.0125 (Math says so based on prices in the NCoin purchase store.)

Then 1M adena = ???

[1 NCoin = $0.0125 = 10K adena, then:]

Removed Scroll Pack (300,300, 200)= 750 NCoin = 7,500,000 adena

vs:

1M Adena = NCoin? (1,000,000/10,000) = 100 NCoin. (or $1.25)

IF you were to match what's in the removed pack from the NCoin store:

300/10 * 1M = 30 * 1M = 30M Adena for the equivalent of 300 P.Atk Scrolls.

300/10 * 1M = 30 * 1M = 30M Adena for the equivalent of 300 P.Def Scrolls.

Exp Scrolls = 5 NCoin per (could convert  to LCoin Boxes, but prices vary on L2Coin boxes in the "private" market:

So we'll just model that by spending NCoin.

To get 200, you'd need 200 * 5 = 1000 NCoin or $12.50 with NCStore to get the equivalent of what was in that bundle before.

So what do we have?

60M adena or $75 in NCoin which CAN be converted into adena for the scrolls, both P.Atk and P.Def, 300 EACH.
$12.50 for the 200 Exp scrolls, if you care about 30% more exp.

Leaving what?

You'd have to spend the equivalent of $87.50 in NCoin converted into adena to buy what you could buy before from the NCoin store.

What kind of price increase is that on a % basis?

833% change in prices for the SAME quantity and quality of stuff you were getting before. That meets and exceeds the definition of hyperinflation, and it's NOT being imposed upon by other player activities. It's all NCSoft's pricing model. There are no demand-pull or cost-push difficulties at all, because supply is infinite. If there was an arbitrage opportunity, more would have taken it by now. There's a reason these scrolls aren't tradeable. 

I don't see how this helps people stay invested in the game. But, maybe it won't matter. But, I think when it comes to any kind of "hunting" in L2, the more P.Atk/P.Def the better (yes, more is better). This is like getting someone addicted with cheap prices and then gouging them later on down the road.

Now, they're optional boosts, but the scope and effectiveness of such boosts make it almost mandatory for consistent forward progress for players of any stripe. There is a major pricing disconnect here.

Try to spin it as a "special," that bundle for 750 NCoin. But if they're so special, then maybe these scrolls should disappear from the LCoin adena store.

You figure a pack of 10 (need 1 of each, yes?)  scrolls lasts 3 hours and 20 minutes (200 minutes). You'd have to generate 200K in 20 minutes from drops just to break even under this regime. This doesn't factor in SS, Spirit Ore, Sayha, all that other stuff.

Again, it's about bang for the buck, delivering value to the players and NCSoft can have their comfy margins still.