How is this possible?

[4thcoming]

There is an official thread about harassment, vulgarity, and extortion for pking.  However, what I came across in the game is hands down one of the worst unconceivable disgusting intentional game design issues across the entire globe.

It's actually an exploit that has existed in Lineage II that the developers refused to address for DECADES.  How is is possible this even still exists?

Lineage II had a rather fair PK system even upon release.  You couldn't instantly log out, going red was a risk, it was balanced to some degree.

However, the exploit circumvents THE ENTIRE SYSTEM rendering every aspect of the PK system completely pointless. 

The ability to FLAG other players exploiting their AOE NOT INTENTDED to target other players has plagued the game for years.  People used to require players to even sit down while receiving buffs decades ago to prevent this.

The fact this even exists in the game today with afk mechanics is unbelievable.  I have seen poor systems, trashy games, horrible business models, but this is one of the most incredible invitations to mass griefing and exploitations I have ever seen. 

If someone wants to go around PKing afk players that's pretty much dumb in itself and anti PVP, but at least it comes with penalties.  Abusing this flag issue is purely exploitive and even encouraging harassment.

I have target set to mobs, not other players.  The AOE should NOT be impacting other players giving them the ability to cheese the system.

[Erica28]

Agree 100%. Some clans on chronos start wars even with this system.

[4thcoming]

2 hours ago, Erica28 said:

Agree 100%. Some clans on chronos start wars even with this system.

Yes, it's also a Objective issue not Subjective.  It's factually broken.  Whether your a developer, mod, customer, PVPer, or otherwise it doesn't matter.  When posed with a simple question the answer is simple.

Should a player be able to unwillingly impose /force a player into a flagged state?  There is ONLY one answer.

No, to allow such a thing to occur would defy the entire premise of the PVP system.  It's bypassing entire Karma/PK system.

Any mod reading this should take note this is in fact an exploit that should be fixed immediately.  If you care at all about the integrity of the game or even just reducing harassment and trolling, you should be putting in the effort to get this fixed.

AOE should NOT impact other players UNLESS they specifically opt to change their target settings to include other players.

[Slycutter]

working as intended is the answer.

No one forces you to Aoe if you do you run that risk.  Also its only certain aoe skills not all.

[4thcoming]

37 minutes ago, Slycutter said:

working as intended is the answer.

No one forces you to Aoe if you do you run that risk.  Also its only certain aoe skills not all.

A: If it's only "certain skills" that is by definition a defective game design.  There is no legitimate reason why one AOE would cause this affect while another would not.

B: Choosing to play optimally does not constitute a reason to allow an exploit. 

C : The karma system has always been in place since release.  It's entire purpose it to prevent this exact type of behavior.  By definition allowing players to circumvent the PK so easily is defective and exploitative game design. 

D : Lineage II  is not the only MMO to be a complete failure at this.  Black Desert Online has a similar defect in allowing 1 sided clan wars to result in no penalties.

Lineage II has actually been the standard for doing most things right regarding PVP.  The mechanics, not the complete trash 1 shot, P2W, backstab from the front, hero auto win garbage history that is L2.  The actual game rules have been solid though.

For example you can immediately log, emergency escape, or even unflag in the middle of PVP in BDO.  BDO is complete disgrace for standards for these reasons.  The least Lineage II can do is fix things that are clearly exploitative.

MOST IMPORTANTLY:  This exploit can be used with any consequence to hinder new players and just cheese the entire game.  You suffer ZERO penalties with a low level 100% rez so you can easily disrupt the game play of 100's even 1,000's of players WITHOUT CONSEQUENCE like being red.  It can truly be used to just harass the entire community.

[4thcoming]

2 hours ago, Slycutter said:

working as intended is the answer.

No one forces you to Aoe if you do you run that risk.  Also its only certain aoe skills not all.

If by working as intended you mean releasing a new class and then driving away customers, then YES it's working "as intended".

This is unbelievably bad management from the NCsoft.  It already has a bad reputation for horrible P2W and predatory business practices, but this doesn't even produce revenue.  This is just slop work at best.  Maybe it's better to leave it in game and help push customers away from the game.

[4thcoming]

Greeting Adventurers,

We would like to remind you that harassment of any kind will not be tolerated

How can there be an official statement saying something like this while openly advocating and encouraging players to exploit and harass others for fun? 

@Juji 

How is this exploit still in the game after all these years?  Do you care at all about the health of the game or the reality of this situation?  I have NEVER HEARD a single positive thing about this game from ANYONE.  Old school players, friends, reviews, videos, it's ALL 100% negative.

This is causing players to run across maps just exploiting players into flagging so they can disrupt their auto play.  Which is BUILT INTO the game and INTEDED.  This IS NOT PVP.  This is just abuse.

FIX IT

[Mete]

jeez with the amount of ksing those silly death knights do, they will be killed. I like how you whine about "abusing" the pvp system, but not a word about your aoe skills "abusing" the pve system ...

 

PS the "consequences" for PKing are laughable.  

[4thcoming]

13 minutes ago, Mete said:

jeez with the amount of ksing those silly death knights do, they will be killed. I like how you whine about "abusing" the pvp system, but not a word about your aoe skills "abusing" the pve system ...

 

PS the "consequences" for PKing are laughable.  

I have not witnessed a single issue of Death Knights just forcing their way into areas.  Even in extremely crowded areas.  Additionally, there are massive amounts of AOE's similar.

Additionally, even if it was an issue, the correct response would be to design the game better or fix the death knight.  AT NOT POINT EVER is the solution just to allow a blatant exploit from sloppy developers.

[Mete]

1 minute ago, 4thcoming said:

I have not witnessed a single issue of Death Knights just forcing their way into areas.  Even in extremely crowded areas.  Additionally, there are massive amounts of AOE's similar.

Additionally, even if it was an issue, the correct response would be to design the game better or fix the death knight.  AT NOT POINT EVER is the solution just to allow a blatant exploit from sloppy developers.

You 're probably a lowbie. My dk is 10% from 108, and the amount of ksing he does is silly. "Normal" people are just running around after mobs I 'm pulling

[4thcoming]

8 minutes ago, Mete said:

You 're probably a lowbie. My dk is 10% from 108, and the amount of ksing he does is silly. "Normal" people are just running around after mobs I 'm pulling

Makes a lot of sense.  The answer is clearly to allow massive exploits to effect everyone and mostly newer players.  That's just how you should handle a new class that has an aggro skill.  Clearly there are no better solutions.

You need to keep your eye on the goal here.  To eliminate as many potential customers and possible and sink this game.  This exploit is doing a great job on that.

Always remember if someone is getting PK'd by an exploit they can always go spend $20,000 to try to resolve it too.  Amazing how money solves all the worlds problems isn't it.

You could spend $20,000 more wisely though like on a Star Citizen imaginary ship.  Oh wait they are sold out lol.  Sucker born every minute.  That's what these games rely on.

[Mete]

Judging by the amount of crying you 're engaged in, you never had a future in this game anyway. Thank your lucky stars you figured it out 5 days in instead of 5 years in.

[4thcoming]

7 minutes ago, Mete said:

Judging by the amount of crying you 're engaged in, you never had a future in this game anyway. Thank your lucky stars you figured it out 5 days in instead of 5 years in.

I make valid points, critique when required, and use objective facts.

You use emotional tears.  Don't forget it.

Lets think like you for a minute.  Someone just came into my rotation and starting camping over me.  The clear answer in this case is to allow exploits in the Karma System.  It's simply a good solution because.......... reasons.  I moved to the next rotation which was open right next to us.  (How lazy and inconsiderate of that person...... the expected attitude from a "PVP game brah".

[Mete]

1 minute ago, 4thcoming said:

I make valid points, critique when required, and use objective facts.

You use emotional tears.  Don't forget it.

Your valid point is you got killed twice while level 95 or whatever. Who cares.

This system has been working this way since day one. Some AOE skills will flag you. Deal with it or go Hello Kitty Online.

 

PS yeah your valid point is you are being harassed, your feeefees are hurt and you 've made 15 posts about it. Reality, Nobody cares.

[4thcoming]

10 minutes ago, Mete said:

Your valid point is you got killed twice while level 95 or whatever. Who cares.

This system has been working this way since day one. Some AOE skills will flag you. Deal with it or go Hello Kitty Online.

 

PS yeah your valid point is you are being harassed, your feeefees are hurt and you 've made 15 posts about it. Reality, Nobody cares.

Good strong logic.  Because the level really matters.  I mean it really means a lot since everyone essentially loses 0.00000% exp with unlimited res bots, and 100% restore scrolls.  I mean people should be able to exploit the karma system because......... well some online forum warrior talked trash about Kitty Island.  Therefore, the devs shouldn't fix an exploit.  It just makes sense.

It's a PVP game, so exploits should be part of it.  It just makes sense.  Maybe if you where not so emotional about it, you could think a little clearer.  Just trying to help you focus.

I mean what is a company supposed to do when they see a random post (repeatedly like the one posted recently) about a player asking about being killed repeatedly every day.  I mean clearly who cares about customers LOL we are PVPers brah! We don't care about other people, or the future of the game lol.  They can leave for all we care right?  Then we can cry later about how dead the game is, server merges, and the eventual shut down.

Cause we are the smart ones.

And as for who cares, you do carebear.  That's why you keep replying.  Show's how much you care.  You little caring bear.

You should try Fallout or Bless Online since you're into dead games

PS stop your whining, man up and PK that person in your spot like the game intended.  Or go play Kitty Island.  I mean REAL PK without EXPLOITS.

[Mete]

1 minute ago, 4thcoming said:

Good strong logic.  Because the level really matters.  I mean it really means a lot since everyone essentially loses 0.00000% exp with unlimited res bots, and 100% restore scrolls.  I mean people should be able to exploit the karma system because......... well some online forum warrior talked trash about Kitty Island.  Therefore, the devs shouldn't fix an exploit.  It just makes sense.

It's a PVP game, so exploits should be part of it.  It just makes sense.  Maybe if you where not so emotional about it, you could think a little clearer.  Just trying to help you focus.

Your assumptions are running rampant.  Devs have the ability to make skills that damage everything in the area (eg Phoenix Arrow, Yuls) and also skills that just damage multiples  of the type of target you selected (Heavy Arrow Rain, Multiple Arrow, Also Yuls). If a Yul uses Phoenix Arrow to do damage to multiple mobs, they know they run the risk of inadvertently flagging, so they mostly don't use it and rely on Heavy Arrow Rain and Multiple Arrow for their multi mob damage. Same applies to you. The fact you think it's "broken" an "exploit" and "harassment" doesn't mean it is true. It just means you don't get it.

And with that, I 'm done dealing with your broken record. The recommendation to try Hello Kitty Online stands.

[4thcoming]

6 minutes ago, Mete said:

Your assumptions are running rampant.  Devs have the ability to make skills that damage everything in the area (eg Phoenix Arrow, Yuls) and also skills that just damage multiples  of the type of target you selected (Heavy Arrow Rain, Multiple Arrow, Also Yuls). If a Yul uses Phoenix Arrow to do damage to multiple mobs, they know they run the risk of inadvertently flagging, so they mostly don't use it and rely on Heavy Arrow Rain and Multiple Arrow for their multi mob damage. Same applies to you. The fact you think it's "broken" an "exploit" and "harassment" doesn't mean it is true. It just means you don't get it.

And with that, I 'm done dealing with your broken record. The recommendation to try Hello Kitty Online stands.

You mean the assumptions like claiming my level or time playing?  That you have absolutely no clue about?

It's good for you to leave the discussion.  You are not capable or on the level to comprehend things at a higher level.  For example you put no thought into how an overly complex issue like that would be affect what should be 1,000's of potential customers.  In the case of a GOOD GAME potentially MILLIONS OF PLAYERS.  Additionally, with the amount of classes it would take a long time to sort through what works and doesn't.

The fact IT IS an exploit is not predicated on my opinion, it's based ON OBJECTIVE FACTS such as the circumvention of the Karma System and what a Karma System is intended to do.  Just because you can't handle the facts doesn't mean you need to whine about it.