Designed to Fail

[4thcoming]

While it may be commonly known that Lineage II has been P2W since it went to the free to play model, I don't think people fully understand just how bad it is.  Or what the terms mean.

There are plenty of P2W games on the market, PC, mobile, etc.  With this business model you can purchase huge advantages, bonus stats, progress faster, and many other benefits.  However, lets compare BDO a P2W vs Lineage II.

What you can do in BDO is excessively grind, life skill etc and you will be able dominate in PVE and other factors.  PVP is still an issue, but the core game is playable.  You will progress slower, but you will not face the same issues as a game like Lineage II.

 

Designed to Fail

Everything in the entire game is locked down to ensure customers fail miserably without paying.  It's not an issue of convenience, PVP, or Sieges.  It's an issue of locking down the entire game to ensure the systems will always fail.

Examples:

***  HP/MP Regen rates highly based upon damage output (Thus you can't even sustain mana properly due to low dmg output). 

*** Blue Mobs (Level differential) forcing advancement whether you are prepared or want to proceed.

*** Massive and unwarranted increases in mob stats with no justification other than to preventing natural game play

 

The solution

I'm not even going to ask for these things to be changed.  None of these where by chance, they where intentionally crafted this way.
I would rather just inform anyone reading the posts of the tactics being used and the difference between P2W and just pure scam.

 

It's a shame too, because Lineage II is one of the few IDLE games on the market with this much content.  It's actually quite unique.

[TheBuffer]

If NC wanted they could have easily had the biggest playerbase in the world of MMOs and earning lots of money, if their marketing/dev team were actually GOOD. But unfortunately they've decided to go this way, low playerbase with BIG l2 store spenders.

[FoolyCooly]

2 minutes ago, TheBuffer said:

If NC wanted they could have easily had the biggest playerbase in the world of MMOs and earning lots of money, if their marketing/dev team were actually GOOD. But unfortunately they've decided to go this way, low playerbase with BIG l2 store spenders.

If it ain't broke, don't try to fix it? I'm pretty sure they'll revise their business model to something more beneficial when it's a better option. Unless, of course, they decide to end the game.

[4thcoming]

3 minutes ago, TheBuffer said:

If NC wanted they could have easily had the biggest playerbase in the world of MMOs and earning lots of money, if their marketing/dev team were actually GOOD. But unfortunately they've decided to go this way, low playerbase with BIG l2 store spenders.

No.  Lineage II isn't even close to newer games like BDO and could not pull a market share like that.  They could certainly have a lot more players, but an out dated game like just won't suffice.  BDO actually beats down nearly every competitor, except it's P2W and lack of content ruins it.

That's why Final Fantasy is instead becoming the industry leader.  It's not the best combat game, but it's providing real content.  Games like Ashes of Creation will likely be a top game either as it lacks a real sophisticated combat system.

Also forgot

*** Paying excessive amounts to use basic skills.  I mean seriously, in many areas of the game you run negative income from playing.  I can't decide if that's more pathetic or just sad.

[4thcoming]

3 minutes ago, FoolyCooly said:

If it ain't broke, don't try to fix it? I'm pretty sure they'll revise their business model to something more beneficial when it's a better option. Unless, of course, they decide to end the game.

The issue is THEY will win.  However, the entire MMO community including those who pay will always in the end be the LOSER.

You may get temporary gains in a game, but at a cost of the player base, future games, content, PVP, etc.  You never really win by paying.
 

Instead of getting CONTENT you will get a P2W EVENT.  That's certainly not winning for anyone.

[FoolyCooly]

43 minutes ago, 4thcoming said:

I'm not even going to ask for these things to be changed.  None of these were by chance, they were intentionally crafted this way.
I would rather just inform anyone reading the posts of the tactics being used and the difference between P2W and just pure scam.

 

It's a shame too, because Lineage II is one of the few IDLE games on the market with this much content.  It's actually quite unique.

I've been raising awareness to this fact for years. Nobody will listen & things will remain the same.

[FoolyCooly]

3 minutes ago, 4thcoming said:

The issue is THEY will win.  However, the entire MMO community including those who pay will always in the end be the LOSER.

You may get temporary gains in a game, but at a cost of the player base, future games, content, PVP, etc.  You never really win by paying.

Which is why I don't Pay2Play.

[4thcoming]

3 minutes ago, FoolyCooly said:

I've been raising awareness to this fact for years. Nobody will listen & things will remain the same.

That's not entirely true.  It's a tough situation, but that doesn't mean there have not been victories.  Archeage?  The DEAD game that got buried with the stigma of P2W sent the game into it's grave.  Allods Online had similar issues and had to revamp their entire shop.  EU has been pushing regulation against loot boxes as well as other countries.

The power resides in the consumers, they have the spice of life MONEY

Spend wisely, educate, and help make the MMO market a better place.

I don't think Final Fantasy is really P2W either.  It is subscription but that certainly doesn't prevent P2W anymore.  (WOW as an example).  So if that's the case it would be good to see the #1 MMORPG isn't P2W.

[FoolyCooly]

Just now, 4thcoming said:

That's not entirely true.  It's a tough situation, but that doesn't mean there have not been victories.  Archeage?  The DEAD game that got buried with the stigma of P2W sent the game into it's grave.  Allods Online had similar issues and had to revamp their entire shop.  EU has been pushing regulation against loot boxes as well as other countries.

The power resides in the consumers, they have the spice of life MONEY

Spend wisely, educate, and help make the MMO market a better place.

Thing is I've been waiting for this L2 community to wise up to this since 2012. I'm done hoping for them to catch on. Most simply give up & quit. 

I'm very aware of Netherlands passing a law against this type of behavior.

[4thcoming]

6 minutes ago, FoolyCooly said:

Thing is I've been waiting for this L2 community to wise up to this since 2012. I'm done hoping for them to catch on. Most simply give up & quit. 

I'm very aware of Netherlands passing a law against this type of behavior.

There is an easier way to make very accurate assessments.  For example many games like Lineage II, BDO, Rappelz, had horribly unbalanced PVP, instant kills, and just bad design.  Everyone asked for balancing for years.

Here is the secret which applies here also.  If they COULD do it, it would have already been done.  Thus you can count on it being a failure indefinitely.

It takes a miracle 1/MILLION chance like Final Fantasy to actually fix real problems.  Thus you can count on failure and be right 999,999 out of a million times  

[FoolyCooly]

6 minutes ago, 4thcoming said:

There is an easier way to make very accurate assessments.  For example many games like Lineage II, BDO, Rappelz, had horribly unbalanced PVP, instant kills, and just bad design.  Everyone asked for balancing for years.

Here is the secret which applies here also.  If they COULD do it, it would have already been done.  Thus you can count on it being a failure indefinitely.

It takes a miracle 1/MILLION chance like Final Fantasy to actually fix real problems.  Thus you can count on failure and be right 999,999 out of a million times  

It can most definitely be done. I've seen L2's gameplay work tremendously well before GoD 2011: PvP was fairly balanced; Everything in game could be farmed from quests & raids; Siege participation was extremely high; Finding a party was possible during any hour of the day on any day of the week; Plus, the majority of the community understood game mechanics.  

None of that is true now.

[TheBuffer]

3 hours ago, FoolyCooly said:

If it ain't broke, don't try to fix it? I'm pretty sure they'll revise their business model to something more beneficial when it's a better option. Unless, of course, they decide to end the game.

Game "ended" when it went "free to play" (goddess of destruction).

3 hours ago, 4thcoming said:

No.  Lineage II isn't even close to newer games like BDO and could not pull a market share like that.  They could certainly have a lot more players, but an out dated game like just won't suffice.  BDO actually beats down nearly every competitor, except it's P2W and lack of content ruins it.

That's why Final Fantasy is instead becoming the industry leader.  It's not the best combat game, but it's providing real content.  Games like Ashes of Creation will likely be a top game either as it lacks a real sophisticated combat system.

Also forgot

*** Paying excessive amounts to use basic skills.  I mean seriously, in many areas of the game you run negative income from playing.  I can't decide if that's more pathetic or just sad.

Lineage 2, in general, it's a very nice MMORPG. Yes it uses and out dated game engine (unreal engine 2.5 LOL) but if NC Korea and then NCWest manage to upgrade , fix issues and add enjoyable content it will bring many players. Millions of players around the world play L2. Take an example of the recent Aden server, when it was first introduced many players decided to play and now with all those items introduced in l2 store, a lot of players have uninstalled already. NC gives hopes and hype to players but when they announce something that's really pay2win , they lose a lot of players. 

Not only you need to pay to use basic skills but you also need to pay to enjoy the "small content" and progress your character. 

3 hours ago, FoolyCooly said:

I've been raising awareness to this fact for years. Nobody will listen & things will remain the same.

Agree. Nothing will change. 

3 hours ago, FoolyCooly said:

It can most definitely be done. I've seen L2's gameplay work tremendously well before GoD 2011: PvP was fairly balanced; Everything in game could be farmed from quests & raids; Siege participation was extremely high; Finding a party was possible during any hour of the day on any day of the week; Plus, the majority of the community understood game mechanics.  

None of that is true now.

Back then everything was amazing. We used to love the drops from raids that gave us higher stats and yes it was fair and balanced to all. Now you cannot kill raid bosses and even if you do you will get so bad drops. 90% of the items Lineage 2 has now can only be obtained via L2 Store which simply means you nee to pay to get them. They have completely changed the way the game works. Of course you are not "forced" to pay and keep progressing with your character as a free2play player but it'll take ages to get items and also to level up. 

They can still fix it but the community doesn't believe to them anymore, they've lost faith. They will continue like that and see where it goes. The updates we get are bad, they are making forum polls if the update was good and the majority of players said it was bad and this topic has been lost in history. Whether we like it or not, no matter how many topics will be created, NC will do nothing to change it. They will always provide us with bad content updates, low chances to get items from the game, insanely hard mobs that cannot be killed and expensive pay2win store items. 

[4thcoming]

49 minutes ago, TheBuffer said:

Game "ended" when it went "free to play" (goddess of destruction).

Lineage 2, in general, it's a very nice MMORPG. Yes it uses and out dated game engine (unreal engine 2.5 LOL) but if NC Korea and then NCWest manage to upgrade , fix issues and add enjoyable content it will bring many players. Millions of players around the world play L2. Take an example of the recent Aden server, when it was first introduced many players decided to play and now with all those items introduced in l2 store, a lot of players have uninstalled already. NC gives hopes and hype to players but when they announce something that's really pay2win , they lose a lot of players. 

Not only you need to pay to use basic skills but you also need to pay to enjoy the "small content" and progress your character. 

Agree. Nothing will change. 

Back then everything was amazing. We used to love the drops from raids that gave us higher stats and yes it was fair and balanced to all. Now you cannot kill raid bosses and even if you do you will get so bad drops. 90% of the items Lineage 2 has now can only be obtained via L2 Store which simply means you nee to pay to get them. They have completely changed the way the game works. Of course you are not "forced" to pay and keep progressing with your character as a free2play player but it'll take ages to get items and also to level up. 

They can still fix it but the community doesn't believe to them anymore, they've lost faith. They will continue like that and see where it goes. The updates we get are bad, they are making forum polls if the update was good and the majority of players said it was bad and this topic has been lost in history. Whether we like it or not, no matter how many topics will be created, NC will do nothing to change it. They will always provide us with bad content updates, low chances to get items from the game, insanely hard mobs that cannot be killed and expensive pay2win store items. 

I stopped playing right before the game went free to play.  EVERYONE suggested to stay away from it.  I was told it was completely P2W and not worth ever coming back.

So I have a relatively new player experience now.  One of the shocks was, where are all the drops?  When I started to look up items I noticed this trend of not only was it convoluted, but it all lead to the cash shop.  As in you don't even farm items in game you just literally buy everything.  It was mind boggling how people even put up with this and how bad the situation is.  I was used to predatory practices.  Loot Boxes, directly buying power, a small amount of items giving stat boosts that didn't drop.

However, Lineage II is hands down the WORST model I have ever seen.  And that says a lot vs the entire market and with just how bad so many games are.  It's even worse than mobile garbage.  It's simply a burden to even try to play the game.

Side Note: ALL of these companies need to hire actual qualified gamers to help the direction of the game.  Sure they will load up Cash Shop Shenanigan's, but there are employees justifying their jobs just by providing overly complex trash systems everywhere.

Literally everything could be simplified with a small amount of effort and foresight.  EVERYTHING put into the game is just another road block for masses of consumers.  And 95% is useless.  Every single NPC and the upgrade options in this game are a complete mess.

If you experienced the last decade of updates it's generally much easier, but even so there are just easier ways to do everything.

[Draecke]

the issue lies with the gambling laws in USA that allows this, in Korea and Japan things got changed after regulations forced them to comply

did you know that in Japan by law if you gamble loot boxes every X amount of boxes is required to give u 1 of the top rewards ?

all other regions has einhassad store which allows for unlimited access to certain items, basic ones and event types which means prices are way more stable & reasonable as a price cap exist

now imagine the same here

[Anthy]

#not_spending_a_single_penny_here  

[4thcoming]

3 hours ago, Draecke said:

the issue lies with the gambling laws in USA that allows this, in Korea and Japan things got changed after regulations forced them to comply

did you know that in Japan by law if you gamble loot boxes every X amount of boxes is required to give u 1 of the top rewards ?

all other regions has einhassad store which allows for unlimited access to certain items, basic ones and event types which means prices are way more stable & reasonable as a price cap exist

now imagine the same here

Regulations will certainly help, but that won't resolve the main issue.  Even if you removed all forms of gambling in Lineage II the structure is still designed to FORCE YOU TO FAIL unless you pay money.  The regulation will just lead to companies using alternative methods to achieve the same results.

The real issue needs to be fixed: People funding these business practices for petty personal gains which harm everyone.

I was proud to purchase some products like Grim Dawn and many others for example.  A more fair transaction where I feel my money is helping contribute to something good.  People also fail to understand the business model.  You DO NOT NEED to give ANY of these companies $100+ a month.

If they are running the business correctly they should have SO MANY CUSTOMERS that $15 a month is more than enough.