Attn Devs: Content problems and suggestions

[Rotten]

First i would greatly appreciate if a Dev or GM could acknowledge that this has been read, it would go a long way to know that L2 leadership at least considers player suggestions.
There are multiple opportunities currently as i see it to correct PVP imbalance with the current state of game content. 

First:
There is an opportunity for NCsoft to correct the unfair advantages some players have with the legacy Agathon's. Including, but not limited to, jump, rock, salvation, etc. Currently These various Agathon's allow some players to gain unfair advantages / skills not native to their class, this creates an unbalanced PVP environment for current game content especially in seiges and the cursed sword events. 
I see a few potential solutions: 
1. Remove them from all players
2. Re-introduce them to all players that they may obtain them.
3. Disable them for specific events, like you already do in the Olympiad. I would suggest disabling them in World Zones, Castle Siege Ground, and PVP instances such as Baium, Ant Queen, Swords, Anakim, etc. They are being extremely abused in these areas to gain unfair advantages. This logic is already in the game for the Olympiad and Ceremony of Chaos.

Second:
Sieges, currently defending players are exploiting the ability to have a small group sign to attack Aden and break the inner wall to reduce the time it takes them to run in and defend against or disrupt a cast. This is a problem as Attackers cannot stop this, the only option is to have some clans not sign to attack a castle, which in turn you then cannot cast and try to take the castle. This is truly a mechanic being exploited.
The suggested solution would be to make siege golems not an attacker or defender and allow both attackers or defenders to destroy it. 

Third:
Please re-evaluate Othell skills, they are very much out of date with the rest of the primary DD classes. 
For example i am comparing an Othell to: Yul, Tyrr, Feoh, Evi,DK with equivalent gear and level .
Each of those classes mentioned above have extremely good ways to defend themselves in PVP.
Evi literally have perma steel mind i see it in all pvp, coupled with jump Agathon, othell cannot escape or hide.
Tyrr now with all the cooldown has perma guts, huge defense
Tyrr/DK AOE range is huge, othell cannot even get close their toons are huge damage and huge defense.
Yul has jump and flare skills + ranged attack, i'm on the fence about this, but those two give Yul a slight advantage. But they are close to being equally matched. Except for certain players that exploit the game with disallowed software tracking us in hide. 
DK has strong ranged attack coupled with a jump othell cannot hide or compete.
Feoh, Mana barrier and the lack of m.evasion / m.def on an othell pretty much makes us useless against feoh.
All collections to avoide strike / or resist dagger in game are super cheap and easy to get. 
Collection items to resist all other classes the othell needs to, are VERY expensive and hard to make, or in some cases don't exist at all.

Othell disadvantages that basically make it a pve only character. 
Evasion, NEVER works, I have tested for a long time, Ultimate Evasion + counter stance + pre-vision, am dead 1 hit every time.
Cooldown on evasion makes it unavailable for Minutes compared to other classes that have defensive skills up almost permenantly
Hide, must nerf all damage to stay in hide by going skill tree / items to max cooldown. but then we cannot kill.
Skill Critical limit, there is an 80% max crit rate, which means 20% of the time we do NO damage, it's not a miss it's just a failed crit. This is currently imbalanced as no other class I've played has this limit. In pvp.. 3 missed stabs means your dead. 

Suggestions:
For ALL classes, choose attack or defense. Examples, if you have guts up you take huge dmg nerf. 
Please fix evasion and remove the 80/20 rule for Crits so we can compete.. or apply the 80/20 to all classes..
Align Othell cooldowns with other classes.. so we are not waiting 5-10 minutes for skills. 
 

[LordDragnil]

 If someone takes out/destroys the old agathion system, I personally will be done with these servers and probably l2 in general. Not a big deal, right. But I'm sure it won't be only my decision.

To be honest, this is the only item type that holds the old player base. Cheaper servers are waiting...

  The stones are already heavily nerfed.  All damage dealers have AoE skills, supports have control skills... 

People, who's using stones/etc., suppose that attacker may kill them. So it's just a game of timings. They do not use these items against weak toons.  Think about it. 

[Rotten]

57 minutes ago, LordDragnil said:

 If someone takes out/destroys the old agathion system, I personally will be done with these servers and probably l2 in general. Not a big deal, right. But I'm sure it won't be only my decision.

To be honest, this is the only item type that holds the old player base. Cheaper servers are waiting...

  The stones are already heavily nerfed.  All damage dealers have AoE skills, supports have control skills... 

People, who's using stones/etc., suppose that attacker may kill them. So it's just a game of timings. They do not use these items against weak toons.  Think about it. 

Respectfully, then choose options 2 or 3, the tip 1% of players have them. And for the other 99% thry are now unobtainable which is my point.  In some aspects of the game if I had them I too could compete in areas like they do.

Examples all of which i have see done regularly by those that have them and own high end content in the game giving an unfair advantage.

1.  The downside to an evi. Is you stay away from them.. not possible when you have an evi in sm + jump agathion totally wrecks other people like my class which has no jump or defense. Solution give us all the jump agathion or disable them as I said in certain zones.

2. Swords as another example.. my class doesn't have  jump skill.. but yuls now have a double jump if they have the jump agathion and can get to swords quicker..  again use my suggestion #2 or 3 to balance it.

3. Tyrr, feoh... they already have massive def or mana barrier. They get low mp/hp go to rock, pop a few pots l, wait the few seconds for their skill cooldowns and then you get wrecked.. 

 

I provided 3 valid options to balance for new and old players

[Pernambuquinho]

NCWest is losing opportunity to add these old agathions in Hero Coin shop for good prices.

[Rotten]

@Hermesplease can us othells at least get some kind of acknowledgement or gm/dev input on this

[SirIsaacNuketon]

On 5/24/2022 at 7:16 PM, LordDragnil said:

 If someone takes out/destroys the old agathion system, I personally will be done with these servers and probably l2 in general. Not a big deal, right. But I'm sure it won't be only my decision.

To be honest, this is the only item type that holds the old player base. Cheaper servers are  waiting ...

I dont remember agathion in interlude what about u guys

 

Idk kinda seems like another useless piece of gear/trinket added to keep you spending money until you get the right one out of a random selection for your 'perfect build'

 

 

[BlueBerry]

On 5/24/2022 at 1:42 PM, Rotten said:

First i would greatly appreciate if a Dev or GM could acknowledge that this has been read, it would go a long way to know that L2 leadership at least considers player suggestions.
There are multiple opportunities currently as i see it to correct PVP imbalance with the current state of game content. 

First:
There is an opportunity for NCsoft to correct the unfair advantages some players have with the legacy Agathon's. Including, but not limited to, jump, rock, salvation, etc. Currently These various Agathon's allow some players to gain unfair advantages / skills not native to their class, this creates an unbalanced PVP environment for current game content especially in seiges and the cursed sword events. 
I see a few potential solutions: 
1. Remove them from all players
2. Re-introduce them to all players that they may obtain them.
3. Disable them for specific events, like you already do in the Olympiad. I would suggest disabling them in World Zones, Castle Siege Ground, and PVP instances such as Baium, Ant Queen, Swords, Anakim, etc. They are being extremely abused in these areas to gain unfair advantages. This logic is already in the game for the Olympiad and Ceremony of Chaos.

Second:
Sieges, currently defending players are exploiting the ability to have a small group sign to attack Aden and break the inner wall to reduce the time it takes them to run in and defend against or disrupt a cast. This is a problem as Attackers cannot stop this, the only option is to have some clans not sign to attack a castle, which in turn you then cannot cast and try to take the castle. This is truly a mechanic being exploited.
The suggested solution would be to make siege golems not an attacker or defender and allow both attackers or defenders to destroy it. 

Third:
Please re-evaluate Othell skills, they are very much out of date with the rest of the primary DD classes. 
For example i am comparing an Othell to: Yul, Tyrr, Feoh, Evi,DK with equivalent gear and level .
Each of those classes mentioned above have extremely good ways to defend themselves in PVP.
Evi literally have perma steel mind i see it in all pvp, coupled with jump Agathon, othell cannot escape or hide.
Tyrr now with all the cooldown has perma guts, huge defense
Tyrr/DK AOE range is huge, othell cannot even get close their toons are huge damage and huge defense.
Yul has jump and flare skills + ranged attack, i'm on the fence about this, but those two give Yul a slight advantage. But they are close to being equally matched. Except for certain players that exploit the game with disallowed software tracking us in hide. 
DK has strong ranged attack coupled with a jump othell cannot hide or compete.
Feoh, Mana barrier and the lack of m.evasion / m.def on an othell pretty much makes us useless against feoh.
All collections to avoide strike / or resist dagger in game are super cheap and easy to get. 
Collection items to resist all other classes the othell needs to, are VERY expensive and hard to make, or in some cases don't exist at all.

Othell disadvantages that basically make it a pve only character. 
Evasion, NEVER works, I have tested for a long time, Ultimate Evasion + counter stance + pre-vision, am dead 1 hit every time.
Cooldown on evasion makes it unavailable for Minutes compared to other classes that have defensive skills up almost permenantly
Hide, must nerf all damage to stay in hide by going skill tree / items to max cooldown. but then we cannot kill.
Skill Critical limit, there is an 80% max crit rate, which means 20% of the time we do NO damage, it's not a miss it's just a failed crit. This is currently imbalanced as no other class I've played has this limit. In pvp.. 3 missed stabs means your dead. 

Suggestions:
For ALL classes, choose attack or defense. Examples, if you have guts up you take huge dmg nerf. 
Please fix evasion and remove the 80/20 rule for Crits so we can compete.. or apply the 80/20 to all classes..
Align Othell cooldowns with other classes.. so we are not waiting 5-10 minutes for skills. 
 

What they should do is Make sieges like an intance - all with equal gear - and have some real fun - can you imagine make L2 Fun again? lol 

[Fell]

9 hours ago, BlueBerry said:

What they should do is Make sieges like an intance - all with equal gear - and have some real fun - can you imagine make L2 Fun again? lol 

Why would somebody pay for the game then?

[Duardin]

@Rotten 

 

Disagree with the part of removing the old zodiac Agathions. They are in use at all NCsoft region, including: S.Korea, Japan, Taiwan (see YouTube). Even they are using them @Oly. It is your problem that you didn't buy them and enchant them when you have the chance. Also should be a difference between the new and the old players. 

[yonokito]

On 5/24/2022 at 8:42 PM, Rotten said:

First i would greatly appreciate if a Dev or GM could acknowledge that this has been read, it would go a long way to know that L2 leadership at least considers player suggestions.
There are multiple opportunities currently as i see it to correct PVP imbalance with the current state of game content. 

First:
There is an opportunity for NCsoft to correct the unfair advantages some players have with the legacy Agathon's. Including, but not limited to, jump, rock, salvation, etc. Currently These various Agathon's allow some players to gain unfair advantages / skills not native to their class, this creates an unbalanced PVP environment for current game content especially in seiges and the cursed sword events. 
I see a few potential solutions: 
1. Remove them from all players
2. Re-introduce them to all players that they may obtain them.
3. Disable them for specific events, like you already do in the Olympiad. I would suggest disabling them in World Zones, Castle Siege Ground, and PVP instances such as Baium, Ant Queen, Swords, Anakim, etc. They are being extremely abused in these areas to gain unfair advantages. This logic is already in the game for the Olympiad and Ceremony of Chaos.

Second:
Sieges, currently defending players are exploiting the ability to have a small group sign to attack Aden and break the inner wall to reduce the time it takes them to run in and defend against or disrupt a cast. This is a problem as Attackers cannot stop this, the only option is to have some clans not sign to attack a castle, which in turn you then cannot cast and try to take the castle. This is truly a mechanic being exploited.
The suggested solution would be to make siege golems not an attacker or defender and allow both attackers or defenders to destroy it. 

Third:
Please re-evaluate Othell skills, they are very much out of date with the rest of the primary DD classes. 
For example i am comparing an Othell to: Yul, Tyrr, Feoh, Evi,DK with equivalent gear and level .
Each of those classes mentioned above have extremely good ways to defend themselves in PVP.
Evi literally have perma steel mind i see it in all pvp, coupled with jump Agathon, othell cannot escape or hide.
Tyrr now with all the cooldown has perma guts, huge defense
Tyrr/DK AOE range is huge, othell cannot even get close their toons are huge damage and huge defense.
Yul has jump and flare skills + ranged attack, i'm on the fence about this, but those two give Yul a slight advantage. But they are close to being equally matched. Except for certain players that exploit the game with disallowed software tracking us in hide. 
DK has strong ranged attack coupled with a jump othell cannot hide or compete.
Feoh, Mana barrier and the lack of m.evasion / m.def on an othell pretty much makes us useless against feoh.
All collections to avoide strike / or resist dagger in game are super cheap and easy to get. 
Collection items to resist all other classes the othell needs to, are VERY expensive and hard to make, or in some cases don't exist at all.

Othell disadvantages that basically make it a pve only character. 
Evasion, NEVER works, I have tested for a long time, Ultimate Evasion + counter stance + pre-vision, am dead 1 hit every time.
Cooldown on evasion makes it unavailable for Minutes compared to other classes that have defensive skills up almost permenantly
Hide, must nerf all damage to stay in hide by going skill tree / items to max cooldown. but then we cannot kill.
Skill Critical limit, there is an 80% max crit rate, which means 20% of the time we do NO damage, it's not a miss it's just a failed crit. This is currently imbalanced as no other class I've played has this limit. In pvp.. 3 missed stabs means your dead. 

Suggestions:
For ALL classes, choose attack or defense. Examples, if you have guts up you take huge dmg nerf. 
Please fix evasion and remove the 80/20 rule for Crits so we can compete.. or apply the 80/20 to all classes..
Align Othell cooldowns with other classes.. so we are not waiting 5-10 minutes for skills. 
 

are you to  able to pay for all those changes?  as no one work for free devs as well