Damage Reduction and survive, end game analysis.

[Arcanjo]

Come on, I currently have 47% reduction of PvP damage (which has drastically changed the Oly, Duels, Coliseum), but I saw a wizard I do not remember, but I think it was Dragon Hunter, who received damage from another magician and archers who in me would cause 55k to 30k damage critical, this mage received 450, 300 damage, it was surreal, as he could reduce both damage, even with mana shield, he could not reduce both damage so I checked the damage reduction forms PvP, I'll answer all I know below:

• -10% [ISS BUFF] Protective Ditty
• -15% Talisman Abundace lv1
• -5% Weapon Tauti
• -5% AS Mystic
• -15% Jewel Obsidian lv5
• -5% Cloack Light (Castle)
• -20% Armor PvP
• -5% Passive Protection of Light (Clan)
• -7% Belt PvP defense

Total: -77~87%

In the end receive 13% (If ISS) or 23% (Other classes) is very little damage. Mainly because we have the physical and magic defense, which reduces even more and the damage and I saw a Knight with 17K in both defenses and a Dagger with 14k Pdef, so a player at this level will crush any adversary who can not reduce the damage like it, on top of that we have Maxima HP that can do more to fight etc. The cost of this is easy at 200-350 billion adena.

Now we go to another type of damage reduction, that of critical damage, but I'm going to report something interesting. with light armor R95 +3 and lv6 on the elements received critics who alternated between 3 ~ 6k of a Tyr Warrior, so I switched to Heavy TW armor (No spell and no elemental defensive attribute) and to my surprise I came to receive critiques of 1 ~ 3k (Practically cut the critical damage I received in half). Remembering that I am ISS and with heavy received -35% of P. Critical Damage. Below are ways to reduce P. Critical Damage:

• -15% Talisman Abundace lv1
• -50% Drum Melody
• -35% Heavy Armor

Total: -100%

But I've only seen one way to reduce critical spell damage by using Abilities Points, it can reduce by as much as 20%.

• -20% Guardian's Death shield

This reduction affects both physical and magical (at least it seems as there is nothing in the description), so basically critical physical damage can be drastically reduced. I do not believe in immunity to critical damage, it must have a limiter, which should be around 85% of the maximum critical reduction, so that by 100% it would not help. I really do not know how the physical damage DDs (Tyr, Evis, Dagger, Archer) if they saw late game with this critical physical damage potential reduced. The magicians are in the advantage, so far they have only 20% of critical reduced. But I have already noticed that against mage resistance to debuff can be one of the greatest weapons against them, because in pvp when the mage failed to hit the debuff his damage is greatly reduced, so consider only receive 13 to 23% of the mage's damage, then the damage passes through the defense (or vice versa) and without receiving debuff (eg Angel Touch), at this time the mages must still have more damage than physical DDs (Outside half-Kill, Lethal Strikes ...) but not strong enough to settle the fight, leaving it more competitive.

And against topazio and Freenzing Flame, finally direct damages in HP, we have physical reductions.

• -10% Talisman Insanity
• -10% Armor +10

Total: -20%

I was told that the damage between late / end game players are low among them, compared to mid and early game damage, today I believe that. And I understand because many ISS opt for the light at the end, but during the Heavy race it is more advantage to have a light PVP +10 (^^) with other damage reduction items.

So do not be discouraged, by dying in 1hit and inflicting 50 damage on a strong player, since it is not a cheater, but rather the mechanic of the late game of Lineage 2.
Note: Level is something that weighs a lot, in damages, defenses, reuses and cast of skills, but very much, regardless of equipment, level is decisive.

I hope I have added useful information to those who start, comments and opinions, feel free. ^^

[Whatif]

Well, what analysis you can do when you know 1/3 rd about game ). 1st of all not everything is revealed about formulas used in l2. Only way as u mentioned about heavy and light effects is to test things out. so good luck in your journey and more deeper research  ))). 10 years later we will talk .

[Arcanjo]

1 hour ago, Whatif said:

Well, what analysis you can do when you know 1/3 rd about game ). 1st of all not everything is revealed about formulas used in l2. Only way as u mentioned about heavy and light effects is to test things out. so good luck in your journey and more deeper research  ))). 10 years later we will talk .

I play from the prelude, but I started to use forums these things in 2012 ^^
Relax, I will not want your opinion in 10 years! Since you apparently did not add anything and will continue without adding. lol 

[Whatif]

27 minutes ago, Arcanjo said:

I play from the prelude, but I started to use forums these things in 2012 ^^
Relax, I will not want your opinion in 10 years! Since you apparently did not add anything and will continue without adding. lol 

If you play from prelude then you should remember the days when healers were unkillable in heavy sets. Situation was so bad that developers had to force healers use robes ))). Paper again  .

[Arcanjo]

46 minutes ago, Whatif said:

If you play from prelude then you should remember the days when healers were unkillable in heavy sets. Situation was so bad that developers had to force healers use robes ))). Paper again  .

I remember that, but this is a few years ago (It was not in the prelude, if I remember correctly I started between 1998 and 1999). But this was already invented after the awakening, at the time it seemed incoherence, but at the time, ours was tense to kill a Healer like that. When playing C1 to C5 (Best periods of L2), having Dragon Pet was the sensation, everyone wanted to have their mounts, owners of castles with their Flying Dragons, another time, very different from the current one. ^^

[Asachiara]

Before any further comments. The items/buffs you put here as follows

• -10% [ISS BUFF] Protective Ditty
• -15% Talisman Abundace lv1
• -5% Weapon Tauti
• -5% AS Mystic
• -15% Jewel Obsidian lv5
• -5% Cloack Light (Castle)
• -20% Armor PvP
• -5% Passive Protection of Light (Clan)
• -7% Belt PvP defense

is 60.59% pvp dmg reduction not 77%-87%. Once you understand this reply here and we can continue.

[Pleistoros]

Bro, you are 100 lvl...your mind should be focus on lvl up to 105 not to analize pvp In that rythm of progress...probably when you will hit 105 none above will be actual . Go in a high lvl clan, try lvl up fast, make high lvl friends in game, learn their secrets...when you will rich 105 you will know exactly what to do .

You should add to reduction list Mysterious Slaughter Dye...its kinda a must for pvp.

Regarding pvp here a situation that should make you reconsider pvping with iss...I was in gainak on a 99 lvl ISS, another alt char, +8 heavy bloody...full defence setup, full buff, mid geared toon and a staked yull hit me...with 2.5 mil crit, yes...you read corect...2.5 milion hit. Even with 95% reduction...125 000 crit hit 1 shot me . Not to mention here  Daggers...with less buffs in oly they hit like im naked...

[Feedlee]

• -10% [ISS BUFF] Protective Ditty
• -15% Talisman Abundace lv1
• -5% sigil sa
• -10% augment
• -15% Jewel Obsidian lv5
• -10% Cloack Ferios
• -20% Armor PvP
• -5% Passive Protection of Light (Clan)
• -9% coc belt
• -3% oly pot
• -5% tauti ring
• -20% rose barrier

but still even with all this you get dmg you need combine pvp reduction 1st and after as 2nd priority m.def and p.def

and also you have defensives from tank and celestial from healers when enemies are fully active

btw if you play support you need have ~1k+ element resists (combined barrier scroll + evas tank aura + ap) this rly reduces the dmg

[Astarot]

1 hour ago, Pleistoros said:

Bro, you are 100 lvl...your mind should be focus on lvl up to 105 not to analize pvp In that rythm of progress...probably when you will hit 105 none above will be actual . Go in a high lvl clan, try lvl up fast, make high lvl friends in game, learn their secrets...when you will rich 105 you will know exactly what to do .

You should add to reduction list Mysterious Slaughter Dye...its kinda a must for pvp.

Regarding pvp here a situation that should make you reconsider pvping with iss...I was in gainak on a 99 lvl ISS, another alt char, +8 heavy bloody...full defence setup, full buff, mid geared toon and a staked yull hit me...with 2.5 mil crit, yes...you read corect...2.5 milion hit. Even with 95% reduction...125 000 crit hit 1 shot me . Not to mention here  Daggers...with less buffs in oly they hit like im naked...

But his set was not Dark (-20% damage) and from what I saw, his ISS had nothing that would reduce PvP damage. The rule is simple "Reduction PvP Damage> P / M defense> = Max HP".

The reduction of PvP damage is something so brutal, that the damage received is abruptly reduced in relation to the "P / M" defense, without reduction pvp I take extreme damage, high, with reduction the biggest damage I took in pvp until today has not arrived in the 100 thousand. He already posted "I think" the gear of his char, and is similar to mine, which makes him have a pvp reduction of 40 ~ 50%. The bad of the PvP build that redirects itself to PvE makes it much easier to level up, the bad one that does not invest in the two, is VERY expensive.

"Mysterious Slaughter Dye"
Was this item sold in the L2 Store or am I mistaken? Is it in Dyes' extra slot?

[Astarot]

30 minutes ago, Feedlee said:

• -10% [ISS BUFF] Protective Ditty
• -15% Talisman Abundace lv1
• -5% sigil sa
• -10% augment
• -15% Jewel Obsidian lv5
• -10% Cloack Ferios
• -20% Armor PvP
• -5% Passive Protection of Light (Clan)
• -9% coc belt
• -3% oly pot
• -5% tauti ring
• -20% rose barrier

but still even with all this you get dmg you need combine pvp reduction 1st and after as 2nd priority m.def and p.def

and also you have defensives from tank and celestial from healers when enemies are fully active

True, the physical and magic defense, has to come soon in sequence so that the reduction becomes more effective.

[Astarot]

2 hours ago, Asachiara said:

Before any further comments. The items/buffs you put here as follows

• -10% [ISS BUFF] Protective Ditty
• -15% Talisman Abundace lv1
• -5% Weapon Tauti
• -5% AS Mystic
• -15% Jewel Obsidian lv5
• -5% Cloack Light (Castle)
• -20% Armor PvP
• -5% Passive Protection of Light (Clan)
• -7% Belt PvP defense

is 60.59% pvp dmg reduction not 77%-87%. Once you understand this reply here and we can continue.

I will advance to the author of the post, the total sum of 87% mathematically speaking, however you are saying that the actual reduction in the game, is lower "60.59%", I understood the affirmative, I just do not understand why the actual reduction be lower ?

Does not he add the reductions? Calculate each one separately (Stacking the calculation)? or ...

 

[Asachiara]

Very basics but we can start there

(atakpower/defense)=dmg  then comes dmgreduction

(atakpower/defense)*dmgreductions

if we take the list in the post open excel and put in A1 "=0.9*0.85*0.95*0.95*0.85*0.95*0.8*0.95*0.93", you will got 0.3940467206625. 

so if (atakpower/defense)*0.3940467206625

so if the dmg without any reduction items is 1000 then with all these reduction is 394

[Asachiara]

20 hours ago, Arcanjo said:

Come on, I currently have 47% reduction of PvP damage (which has drastically changed the Oly, Duels, Coliseum), but I saw a wizard I do not remember, but I think it was Dragon Hunter, who received damage from another magician and archers who in me would cause 55k to 30k damage critical, this mage received 450, 300 damage, it was surreal, as he could reduce both damage, even with mana shield, he could not reduce both damage so I checked the damage reduction forms PvP, I'll answer all I know below:

• -10% [ISS BUFF] Protective Ditty
• -15% Talisman Abundace lv1
• -5% Weapon Tauti
• -5% AS Mystic
• -15% Jewel Obsidian lv5
• -5% Cloack Light (Castle)
• -20% Armor PvP
• -5% Passive Protection of Light (Clan)
• -7% Belt PvP defense

Total: -77~87%

In the end receive 13% (If ISS) or 23% (Other classes) is very little damage. Mainly because we have the physical and magic defense, which reduces even more and the damage and I saw a Knight with 17K in both defenses and a Dagger with 14k Pdef, so a player at this level will crush any adversary who can not reduce the damage like it, on top of that we have Maxima HP that can do more to fight etc. The cost of this is easy at 200-350 billion adena.

Now we go to another type of damage reduction, that of critical damage, but I'm going to report something interesting. with light armor R95 +3 and lv6 on the elements received critics who alternated between 3 ~ 6k of a Tyr Warrior, so I switched to Heavy TW armor (No spell and no elemental defensive attribute) and to my surprise I came to receive critiques of 1 ~ 3k (Practically cut the critical damage I received in half). Remembering that I am ISS and with heavy received -35% of P. Critical Damage. Below are ways to reduce P. Critical Damage:

• -15% Talisman Abundace lv1
• -50% Drum Melody
• -35% Heavy Armor

Total: -100%

But I've only seen one way to reduce critical spell damage by using Abilities Points, it can reduce by as much as 20%.

• -20% Guardian's Death shield

This reduction affects both physical and magical (at least it seems as there is nothing in the description), so basically critical physical damage can be drastically reduced. I do not believe in immunity to critical damage, it must have a limiter, which should be around 85% of the maximum critical reduction, so that by 100% it would not help. I really do not know how the physical damage DDs (Tyr, Evis, Dagger, Archer) if they saw late game with this critical physical damage potential reduced. The magicians are in the advantage, so far they have only 20% of critical reduced. But I have already noticed that against mage resistance to debuff can be one of the greatest weapons against them, because in pvp when the mage failed to hit the debuff his damage is greatly reduced, so consider only receive 13 to 23% of the mage's damage, then the damage passes through the defense (or vice versa) and without receiving debuff (eg Angel Touch), at this time the mages must still have more damage than physical DDs (Outside half-Kill, Lethal Strikes ...) but not strong enough to settle the fight, leaving it more competitive.

And against topazio and Freenzing Flame, finally direct damages in HP, we have physical reductions.

• -10% Talisman Insanity
• -10% Armor +10

Total: -20%

I was told that the damage between late / end game players are low among them, compared to mid and early game damage, today I believe that. And I understand because many ISS opt for the light at the end, but during the Heavy race it is more advantage to have a light PVP +10 (^^) with other damage reduction items.

So do not be discouraged, by dying in 1hit and inflicting 50 damage on a strong player, since it is not a cheater, but rather the mechanic of the late game of Lineage 2.
Note: Level is something that weighs a lot, in damages, defenses, reuses and cast of skills, but very much, regardless of equipment, level is decisive.

I hope I have added useful information to those who start, comments and opinions, feel free. ^^

I really do like you start the discussion about game mechanics just be more careful if you try to teach others and make statements. There are many hidden tiny tweak which may look illogical but they are there. Just an example Drum critical dmg reduction does not work on skills crit dmg just autoattack same like counter critical. Do more test in coliseum just to be sure you are posting something what is as much correct as you can get. Most of the times you need to confirm the effect by testin in coliseum which crit dmg works on skills and which only on autoattack and which only on skills (like abundance)

Mages hit harder then physical DDs. Also again be careful in statements. I think you mention from your experience as Iss. I think healers which play olly with wizard harmony will tell you different story who hits harder. As I said always think 4x before making statement. 

Every update there is a class which has been boosted. During Yul era eeevery body was buyng anakims whatever making +12 sets to make more pdef just to get defense against archers. Now mages don't give a sht about your pdef setup and items you got so if you wear istina earring with blessed zaken you will be annihilated with medocire feoh easily.  So now is let's say Feoh hype but if you don't have 7s (cause anakim is just pdef) and pearl 4/5 as you have diamond 4/5 ofc Feoh will hit u more. Get magicl reflect shirt +8 (+mdef and -mcrit dmg) get jewels with highest mdef and make then +8-12 and you realize Feohs hit as normal as any1 else.

My Yull has almost the same Pdef as Mdef so there is very little diff if I get dmg from good yul/other or feoh.

One more remark (saying that for 100x here on forums). The items that adds fixed pdef/mdef are not object for debuff. so if you wear 7s insanity pearl 5 abundance lvl 4 you will have 5k Mdef always on regardless the debuff which lands. In a nutshell.. If you have 10000 mdef just with your jewels and buffs/AP and u got 50% debuff your mdef is 5000 (yes yes I know there are more tricks interhe and it is more complicated just want to show em the fixed adds benefit).

but if you take Items like pearl, 7s or Insanity with lets sake 4k mdef fixed. you got 14000 mdef but after same debuff you end pu with 9000 mdef (5000 of debuffed +4000 fixed which is always on)

[Znipo]

41 minutes ago, Asachiara said:

Iif you wear istina earring with blessed zaken you will be annihilated with medocire feoh easily.

 

I agree on the blessed zaken, terrible M. Def.

But what makes you say istina earring is bad? its the most M. Def only surpassed by Blessed antharas / Lindvior, you cant really be saying you need those two if you want a hope to stay alive?

 

Anyway, I always tell people to go Special earring + istina earring combo since those are the highest M. def ones you can obtain easily.

Not counting the temporary COC/Oly earring, as its quite pricey for most

[Asachiara]

yes yes Istina is bad example but blessed zaken and orfen for instance 

People getting these earrings cause they have one A4 of stats ignoring the fact there is not need to resist stun if u are oneshot

[Znipo]

6 minutes ago, Asachiara said:

yes yes Istina is bad example but blessed zaken and orfen for instance 

People getting these earrings cause they have one A4 of stats ignoring the fact there is not need to resist stun if u are oneshot

Yeah! "but mental.. heal.."

[Asachiara]

But to answer Arcanjo topic. You do not know what full staked char means.  The good feohs with +10 sets and stacked items can pop up the following skills

Ferious +15 (can crit)
17000 pdef/mdef for 10s

Essence of Mana
50% pdef

Physical Soul Barrier  (can crit)
Physical Soul Barrier
resistance to bow 25%
and critical dmg received -25

Embody Mana Armor at 101
95% dmg reduction

La Vie En Rose's Energy Lv. 4 6 Greater Jewels Equipped 30s (can crit)

Pdef 1300 mdef 10000

 

There are feohs with 40k pdef/mdef running around.with all pvp reduction u do sht to him for 1-2 minutes

Btw biggest misconception is that for PvP u need dmg.. and people give up after hitting some1 for 400 dmg when they receive 120k.. Ppl think their dmg setup is wrong and sux and start to believe you need +17 weapon with stage 10 SAs. If they got the same weapon the result will be the same :D...

In party vs party or many vs many is most important to have tactics and skills and items to survive dmg peak of the oponent. That is the reason why u see Truffle on Chronos pvp videos hitting ppl and they survive while truffle kills Antharas in 5seconds. The focus of these lower equipped grup is to build up survivability. You will do dmg with +12 blessed bow in pvp without +15 pvp cloak believe me. The trick of the stacked group is that while you out of UDs and wasted skills unwisely you get full dmg while they still on some defensive stances and u don't hurt em.