End Game Dagger

[SatanClaws]

On 1/25/2023 at 10:16 AM, Ballkain said:

 

 

 In pvp that 999 element will be boss, but you're not gonn notice it in pve.

 

this is the only thing I disagree with you on ... the 999 element is very noticeable in PVE 

[Ballkain]

The extra 550 element from a stage 2 would allow me to change a few augments, I can't deny that, but at the price, for me, is not a reasonable upgrade.  @ level 120 I'm running with 2350 element in Dethrone, I know there is a cap on how much you can go over the element resist, not sure the exact number any more, I solo the 116 area which from what I can tell, the mobs are at 1920 elem resist, I  think of the extra 550 would be way over kill.  I can't think of a way to test this though as nothing else gives that sort of large boost.  I could be wrong, but I still think the extra ss bonus and pve bonus 15% from a +30 weapon would pay out more then an extra 550 element.

Any1 wanna lend me a stage 2 dual dagger?

[Marcelus]

On 1/25/2023 at 2:58 PM, Joebob said:

Adventurer is the one class that gets a boost to face stabs. See Critical Tactics skill description: "Increases ... Critical Damage from the front and back by 50%". GH and WR get the massive nerf to face stabs.

Interesting I thought you took a 15% nerf to face and fs just got 0 nerf but no bonus, you must take a boost and fs just doesnt take the nerf.

[Joebob]

On 1/29/2023 at 12:37 PM, Marcelus said:

Interesting I thought you took a 15% nerf to face and fs just got 0 nerf but no bonus, you must take a boost and fs just doesnt take the nerf.

Correct, however, FSs still do more front facing damage than adventurers in pve from my calculations comparing the different skills heh

[Draecke]

former korean top pvp dagger player fraps can be found here

https://www.youtube.com/@user-og8vk8hp4o/videos

and yes he quit and rerolled to DK recently and is already 121+ as can be seen on his streams

https://www.youtube.com/@user-og8vk8hp4o/streams

not to discourage ppl here but yeah don't think the class will do better then a DK - so far that class still on got boosts, no nerfs yet till date

[Tbone]

On 2/3/2023 at 10:44 PM, Draecke said:

former korean top pvp dagger player fraps can be found here

https://www.youtube.com/@user-og8vk8hp4o/videos

and yes he quit and rerolled to DK recently and is already 121+ as can be seen on his streams

https://www.youtube.com/@user-og8vk8hp4o/streams

not to discourage ppl here but yeah don't think the class will do better then a DK - so far that class still on got boosts, no nerfs yet till date

I don't disagree. However, my understanding (limited) DK is top for everything at the moment with the exception of tyrr. Seems like everyone wants to play DK these days. I am looking for a solo toon understanding any gains in this game is a marathon not a sprint. I am not in a hurry to be top anything. But I appreciate the additional info @Draecke

[Ballkain]

On 2/3/2023 at 10:44 PM, Draecke said:

former korean top pvp dagger player fraps can be found here

https://www.youtube.com/@user-og8vk8hp4o/videos

and yes he quit and rerolled to DK recently and is already 121+ as can be seen on his streams

https://www.youtube.com/@user-og8vk8hp4o/streams

not to discourage ppl here but yeah don't think the class will do better then a DK - so far that class still on got boosts, no nerfs yet till date

not discouraged, just not interested in being the exact same toon as 90% of the other dd's on the server, top dd or not.  

[Tbone]

On 2/5/2023 at 8:34 PM, Ballkain said:

not discouraged, just not interested in being the exact same toon as 90% of the other dd's on the server, top dd or not.  

@BallkainI saw your toon has DW daggers now. Any updates or thoughts now that you have had the opportunity to compare?

[Draecke]

On 2/5/2023 at 5:00 PM, Tbone said:

I don't disagree. However, my understanding (limited) DK is top for everything at the moment with the exception of tyrr. Seems like everyone wants to play DK these days. I am looking for a solo toon understanding any gains in this game is a marathon not a sprint. I am not in a hurry to be top anything. But I appreciate the additional info @Draecke

imho best is just to find the right class which you enjoy playing as it's a commitment for possibly many years, I never played a class cause it was the most fotm or popular

in old times clans were relevant and team play was a real thing, back then I played support class sword muse / tank and eventually that died out so I choose to play something else, went Tyr - tried titan which i didnt like and then GK which I really enjoyed.. havent stopped playing that since then and mind you this was many years before Tyr got strong, back then it was mainly Yul or Mage

[Rotten]

On 1/18/2023 at 2:00 PM, Tbone said:

 I am trying to gain a better understanding from the experienced player base.  What is the most well-rounded dagger class if you have end game gear (wishful thinking)? What class tends to be more PVP oriented without sacrificing PVE capability?

 

Is there a big difference between dual vs single dagger. I have read many old posts so just trying to see what the most current thinking is. 

 

I know you post a lot and enjoy your feedback@Hyperlite

I agree mostly with @Marcelus @Hyperlite

Weapon, dual daggers all the way.

In 1v1 pvp is 50/50 i'm undecided on this. But honestly dagger is useless in mass PVP. Every class but us has a strong aoe/flare/dash/flash etc countering all your skills, and with end game gear on others, you miss 50% of your stabs. You just die unless someone is riding the fringe of a group you can pick off and bsoe, still pointless they just get a insta rez from bot. 

Even with upcoming updates, unless they fix our cooldown on hide and evasion, to match other classes skills for getting us out of hide and us evading attacks since we have 0 def, the update will make little to no difference.

However in PVE dagger is great for solo xp, FS is top there. 
If you wish to get massive xp in PVE, DK or Tyrr is the way to go.

[Dey]

On 21/1/2023 at 13:30, iHyperlite said:

 

WR es la mejor daga JcJ, pero la peor daga JcE porque genera el daño de puñalada más bajo en función de cómo funcionan los 2 pasos laterales. Se trasladan al flanco de la posición actual, y el daño de flanco tiene menos bonificaciones en general en la daga que las bonificaciones traseras. también puede dar un paso lateral hacia adelante y hacia atrás, etc., por lo que no siempre está apuñalando el flanco.

PVE general: FS > GH > TH > WR

esto se basa en las pruebas de ingresos de toi como una daga de alta velocidad en lvl 118ish. FS generó más ingresos que GH, que generó más que TH, que generó más que WR. El WR luchó para que yo permaneciera en el mismo piso y mantuviera las mismas puñaladas requeridas que los otros 3 tipos.

Si vuelvo a probar ahora, con mi equipo actual, probablemente no serán muy diferentes porque ahora apuñalo demasiado la salud de toi y otros lugares. por lo que es posible que ahora no se sienta la falta de daño en el WR.

También señalaré que FS es la única daga que puede incluso de forma remota actuar en un entorno pve, pero el equipo requerido es un poco absurdo.

 

JcJ general: WR > GH > TH = FS

para el estado actual del juego, la habilidad defensiva de WR es, con mucho, la mejor. también apuñala muy rápido y no requiere un debuff como shadow chase para tener dmg. La habilidad defensiva de GH también es muy buena y más completa, ya que también funciona en mago dmg. La habilidad de pérdida de objetivo TH no es tan OP como solía ser y tiendo a considerar FS y TH casi iguales en PVP. El FS recibe menos tasa de daño crítico en su pasivo y el TH tiene la eliminación de la armadura y la pérdida del objetivo. Ambos son casi iguales, tal vez TH tenga una ligera ventaja.

 

avance rápido a la próxima actualización, GH puede convertirse en la mejor daga de pvp nuevamente con este beneficio de ignorar la penalización direccional que recibe.

 

Para single vs duals, la única diferencia está en la tasa de tierra de puñalada. duales = 80% de tope duro para soplar la tasa de tierra. el moldeador es 82.5% golpe y tasa. el dominio de la habilidad es idéntico. hide cuando se usan clones es idéntico. Las animaciones de habilidad en el moldeador se ven más geniales, pero pierdes alrededor del 15% de daño usando un moldeador sobre duales. si todo lo que Hice fuera JcJ, usaría un modelador. si alguna vez haces pve, ve a duales. 

necesitas dmg en pve, pero realmente no te lo pierdas en pvp. la tasa de tierra de puñaladas es más un problema en pvp, porque el límite del 80% se reduce con elementos defensivos. Este es realmente el principal problema de las dagas: las puñaladas perdidas que realmente no afectan a los toons aoe.

well, I admit that you know a lot, for a reason you are a TOP
Despite that, I think you are giving little merit to the WR in PVE and I wonder, could it be that the combination of skills you use is wrong?
you have to remember not to use the WR as if it were a TH, GH or FS.
There is no difficulty in hitting the sides and this greatly increases the amount and quality of the crits.
maybe I am wrong but I consider that with this conviction: Easterly Wind Strike, Heart Breaker and Right Angle Reverse, the WR ranks as the second best in PVE among the daggers

[Connex]

here is a general thought process...

You want to play a dagger but not sure which one and regardless what people tell you, the one you play will be close to what you think and I respect that. Go for it.

however there are a few things to consider overall, not class specific.

what is your goal in L2?
can you gear up a Dagger? 
are you willing to invest some $$ to gear a toon?

I have seen Hyper in action but that is a top 10% toon if not more... Also since I talk to him very frequently, he has never been wrong giving out advice or steering people to the right direction.